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LIS Chariot 1:35

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  • Member since
    July 2014
  • From: Franklin Wi
Posted by Bakster on Friday, June 21, 2024 4:18 PM

CapnMac82

 

 
Bakster
there are many ways to make rocks

 

The late Peter, who had posted some cool stuff in Dioramas, had a technique using crumbled coarkboard which make for some cool rocks.

 

That is interesting, Capn. Could be good for say smaller rocks maybe.

  • Member since
    November 2005
  • From: Formerly Bryan, now Arlington, Texas
Posted by CapnMac82 on Friday, June 21, 2024 1:22 PM

Bakster
there are many ways to make rocks

The late Peter, who had posted some cool stuff in Dioramas, had a technique using crumbled coarkboard which make for some cool rocks.

  • Member since
    July 2014
  • From: Franklin Wi
Posted by Bakster on Wednesday, June 19, 2024 11:38 PM

I suppose there are many ways to make rocks. Foam, bark, even natural rocks. I wanted something a little easier where it didn't require wasted time looking for the perfect pieces, or to fabricate something.

Below: I found this mold and I gave it a try. To make the casts I used the same Apoxie Clay used on the base. The stuff worked great. Mash it into the mold, let it cure, and out comes a piece with excellent detail. As well, I found the pieces easy to carve, sand, or file. 

Not sure yet how I will configure the pieces, but below is a possible option. Again, not a large footprint to work with here, options are limited.

An interesting side note. Or at least, I find it so. A few months back I re-subscribed to FSM magazine. It's been several years since I last let it lapse. The price was right, I figured, what the hey. The first issue I received had an article on dioramas. The main premace of the article is why not add a base to your model. We invest much time in our build, why not take it to another level. I wholeheartedly agree. What I found interesting is that the writer subscribed to doing them in compression. Basically, what I am doing here. Make the base a small footprint and strategically cram other elements into the scene, a sort of forced perspective. Also, the article talks about materials and interestingly, they mention Durhams, amongst other things.

I had not seen the article before starting this and to me, that is the interesting part. It's the serendipity of it. I found the article to be well done and informative.

Anyhow ... I am no expert with dioramas and for the most part, I am flying by the seat of my pants. Maybe it will look good, maybe it won't. I am keeping my expectations as low as I can.

End.

  • Member since
    July 2014
  • From: Franklin Wi
Posted by Bakster on Tuesday, June 18, 2024 10:50 AM

Hey Gam, thanks for the additional info. I like the idea of this being a paint. I will look for it and give it a try!

  • Member since
    November 2009
  • From: SW Virginia
Posted by Gamera on Monday, June 17, 2024 8:54 PM

Bakster, what I've been using is the Rust-oleum Multicolor Textured Caribbean Sand. It's basically as stated a sand colour but I've made asphalt by painting it dark grey and then adding a black wash. 

I normally put about two-three layers down but you can start with one and then add as it suits you. 

https://www.rustoleum.com/product-catalog/consumer-brands/stops-rust/multicolor-textured

 

"I dream in fire but work in clay." -Arthur Machen

 

  • Member since
    July 2014
  • From: Franklin Wi
Posted by Bakster on Monday, June 17, 2024 8:21 PM

Bakster

 

 
Gamera

Looks great Bakster! Glad you beat the shrinkage!!! 

Sounds good on the texture. They do make a texture paint now in spray cans. It looks like sand or something in the paint. Just spray it on the surface and you're done- it's like you put down a layer of glue and sprinkled with sand. 

 

 

 

Hey Gam, thanks. Thanks too about the spray on surface. I am interested. I will do some searching. 

 

Hey Gam, I didn't have much luck. If you know who makes it or link me to it, I will investigate. If not, that is Ok too.

  • Member since
    July 2014
  • From: Franklin Wi
Posted by Bakster on Monday, June 17, 2024 7:39 PM

Gamera

Looks great Bakster! Glad you beat the shrinkage!!! 

Sounds good on the texture. They do make a texture paint now in spray cans. It looks like sand or something in the paint. Just spray it on the surface and you're done- it's like you put down a layer of glue and sprinkled with sand. 

 

Hey Gam, thanks. Thanks too about the spray on surface. I am interested. I will do some searching. 

  • Member since
    November 2009
  • From: SW Virginia
Posted by Gamera on Monday, June 17, 2024 7:00 PM

Looks great Bakster! Glad you beat the shrinkage!!! 

Sounds good on the texture. They do make a texture paint now in spray cans. It looks like sand or something in the paint. Just spray it on the surface and you're done- it's like you put down a layer of glue and sprinkled with sand. 

"I dream in fire but work in clay." -Arthur Machen

 

  • Member since
    July 2014
  • From: Franklin Wi
Posted by Bakster on Sunday, June 16, 2024 4:26 PM

Update:  Apoxie Clay did the job. It dried rock hard and zero shrinkage. I don't see the slab pulling up either. It is there to stay.

Secondly, I experimented on the Sculpey slab using Durhams. Using a round stipple brush I dabbed it on. Overall, it adds nice texture. More testing to come but I think that Durhams is the way forward for texture.

End.

  • Member since
    July 2014
  • From: Franklin Wi
Posted by Bakster on Saturday, June 15, 2024 4:08 PM

I alluded to the Sculpey Clay not working out. It did as I feared, shrinkage... and significant shrinkage. You can see in the photo below how far the slab pulled away from the rails. I suppose a person can backfill that but, who's to say it's done shrinking? It is not. I pulled the slab up two days ago and is still somewhat damp. For my purposes, I give the stuff an F+. So there it is. I tried it, it's not for me. 

Out comes the Apoxie Clay. In some ways it is a little harder to work with, in other ways better. In the end, I have a much higher confidence it will work better. As well, I feel it did a better job making the track impressions. Cure time should be shorter and I'd be surprised to see it shrink like the the Sculpey. Time will tell.

  

Not sure yet how I will add texture to it. I am pondering maybe by adding a layer of Durham. Or, maybe, apply a white glue wash then sprinkle sand and such. If anyone has some ideas, I am open to them. 

 

 

 

  • Member since
    July 2014
  • From: Franklin Wi
Posted by Bakster on Saturday, June 15, 2024 1:18 PM

CapnMac82

 

 
Bakster

Done tried and now wait to see what happens as it cures. 

The clay made track impressions very well. I added some tracks for the Robot too.

 

I tried adding some sand, gravel, and stones. This clay is not very tacky, so little of it stuck even with pressing it down. It might be that the clay started to set up too. A film starts to form as it dries. In any event, I will need to add that stuff later.

 

 

Looks good.  Thos huge tracks actually have really low ground pressure (great for being on snow) IRL, but the average viewer will expect that the tracks would be weighty and leave marks.

This can confuse folk, my 13.5tonne excavator with the 60cm metal tracks "marked up" things, like lawns, or pavement, far less than my 25k pound excavator on 40cm rubber tracks.  Ground pressure is fickle that way. The smaller excavtor was better at compacting dirt as a result.

 

 

Thanks Capn. Yes

I had considered limted depth for the reasons you mention. The soil could impact depth as well. But like other things in this hobby, sometimes, scale is exaggerated for the sake of being able to see it. In this case, if I am going through the trouble, I want to see it. I don't know if it's terribly accurate, don't know, but it's intended.

Anyhow, more to come.

 

 

 

 

  • Member since
    November 2005
  • From: Formerly Bryan, now Arlington, Texas
Posted by CapnMac82 on Thursday, June 13, 2024 4:27 PM

Bakster

Done tried and now wait to see what happens as it cures. 

The clay made track impressions very well. I added some tracks for the Robot too.

 

I tried adding some sand, gravel, and stones. This clay is not very tacky, so little of it stuck even with pressing it down. It might be that the clay started to set up too. A film starts to form as it dries. In any event, I will need to add that stuff later.

Looks good.  Thos huge tracks actually have really low ground pressure (great for being on snow) IRL, but the average viewer will expect that the tracks would be weighty and leave marks.

This can confuse folk, my 13.5tonne excavator with the 60cm metal tracks "marked up" things, like lawns, or pavement, far less than my 25k pound excavator on 40cm rubber tracks.  Ground pressure is fickle that way. The smaller excavtor was better at compacting dirt as a result.

  • Member since
    July 2014
  • From: Franklin Wi
Posted by Bakster on Thursday, June 13, 2024 12:59 PM

Gamera

That looks really good! I may have to try some of it in the future! 

 

Don't go buying any until my next update. My concerns are realized. More to come.

  • Member since
    November 2009
  • From: SW Virginia
Posted by Gamera on Wednesday, June 12, 2024 9:17 PM

That looks really good! I may have to try some of it in the future! 

"I dream in fire but work in clay." -Arthur Machen

 

  • Member since
    July 2014
  • From: Franklin Wi
Posted by Bakster on Tuesday, June 11, 2024 9:34 PM

Done tried and now wait to see what happens as it cures. 

The clay made track impressions very well. I added some tracks for the Robot too.

 

I tried adding some sand, gravel, and stones. This clay is not very tacky, so little of it stuck even with pressing it down. It might be that the clay started to set up too. A film starts to form as it dries. In any event, I will need to add that stuff later.

Trimmed the excess around the frame.

And now it's wait and see. Have my doubts, time will tell.

  • Member since
    July 2014
  • From: Franklin Wi
Posted by Bakster on Sunday, June 9, 2024 3:54 PM

CapnMac82
I might have drilled some holes, so the clay could push through and "key" to the holes, to help adhere.  Basically taking advantage of the hollow base a bit.

Great minds think alike. I originally planned to do that. What changed is my OCD said, if you don't need to drill through, it would be nice to keep it clean when looking from below.

So, I am starting with a less intrusive look. Does it really matter? Probably not. Who will see it. Will it hold? Dunno. We shall find out.

 

To your points about the terrain, I totally agree. Creativity is wide open to potentially mind altering realities that are yet unseen.

That said... I probably won't go wild with it. For one, the small footprint will not allow for much and I may just play it safe by modeling it like Mars or something. All I really want is some semblance of reality that does not detract from the model. My goal for now is to make a basic form of the base. Primarily, to create tracks and such. I wanted to do that now before I start paint work on the tracks.  Painting the base will probably get done last.

Thanks for the input. You give me something to think about.

 

 

 

 

  • Member since
    July 2014
  • From: Franklin Wi
Posted by Bakster on Sunday, June 9, 2024 3:18 PM

Gamera

Crossing my fingers! If the epoxy doesn't hold I don't know what else to use- it's the strongest thing I have. 

Let us know how the Sculpty goes. I always use Durham's Water Putty for my bases. 

 

Say Gam, I like Durhams as well. I like the texture it produces. It gives a sort of grain to it that mimics sand or soil. The only reason I am going with a clay is to try and create track marks. So, for that, I need something that will hold a track impression. 

 

Fingers crossed indeed.

 

PS: I am pretty darn sure JB Weld will hold. That stuff gives a good bond.

  • Member since
    November 2009
  • From: SW Virginia
Posted by Gamera on Sunday, June 9, 2024 1:13 PM

Crossing my fingers! If the epoxy doesn't hold I don't know what else to use- it's the strongest thing I have. 

Let us know how the Sculpty goes. I always use Durham's Water Putty for my bases. 

"I dream in fire but work in clay." -Arthur Machen

 

  • Member since
    November 2005
  • From: Formerly Bryan, now Arlington, Texas
Posted by CapnMac82 on Sunday, June 9, 2024 1:13 PM

Bakster
I am going to try it... part of the learning process. Worst case, I pop it up and use Apoxie Sculpt.

I might have drilled some holes, so the clay could push through and "key" to the holes, to help adhere.  Basically taking advantage of the hollow base a bit.

Was gabbing with a bro on the nature of how a person might model exo-planets, and the point was brought up that being other-worldly leaves many options.  So, who is to say that raw closed-cell foam is not realistic?  Or various forms of sponge materal?  (Either would likely want 'unusual' coloring, as well, to help reinforce the "not terrestrial" effect.)

Just beacause we have an innate knowledge of swamps and mountains and the like does not require that to be "universal."

A point was made about how, what if a given planet had only non-newtonian fluids on its surface.  Now, that sould be tricky modeling, as it would mean "puddles" would be a sort of "quicksand."

This would be complicated modeling, as the ground would not look "right."  And that would be the point of it.  But it would be curst hard to achieve.

  • Member since
    July 2014
  • From: Franklin Wi
Posted by Bakster on Sunday, June 9, 2024 12:46 PM

Thought I'd lay the terrain today, fate had different plans. The frame popped off. I am not entirely surprised since all that was holding it is Tamiya glue and a plastic base with dissimilar properties. So, the glue was not effective. It seemed to hold, initially. Anyway, out came my JB Weld 24 hour epoxy. I went with long cure epoxy for maximum hold.

Lastly, I marred the base so that Sculpey has something to bite into. I have my doubts going with sculpey because it can shrink. But, it seems, shrinkage is common to all the air dry clays. I am going to try it... part of the learning process. Worst case, I pop it up and use Apoxie Sculpt.

Later.

  • Member since
    July 2014
  • From: Franklin Wi
Posted by Bakster on Tuesday, June 4, 2024 12:31 AM

Gamera

Yeah the shadow box looks like a great idea to display the Chariot without having to deal with space dust. 

And a 3D rock will be much lighter saving wear and tear on your delicate back, the pain, THE PAIN! 

 

Indeed. Space dust is a major problem.  

  • Member since
    July 2014
  • From: Franklin Wi
Posted by Bakster on Tuesday, June 4, 2024 12:28 AM

CapnMac82

 

 
Bakster
Power will be routed via an umbilcal to a battery box. It is like what I did with the Icarus.

 

Keep an eye out or USB "C" connectors.  The power options are good, and the cables are ubiquitous, and you can run the diorama from a phone charger, or a portable "power pack" (which could be handy on a competition table).

 

Good input, Capn.

  • Member since
    November 2009
  • From: SW Virginia
Posted by Gamera on Monday, June 3, 2024 7:47 PM

Yeah the shadow box looks like a great idea to display the Chariot without having to deal with space dust. 

And a 3D rock will be much lighter saving wear and tear on your delicate back, the pain, THE PAIN! 

"I dream in fire but work in clay." -Arthur Machen

 

  • Member since
    November 2005
  • From: Formerly Bryan, now Arlington, Texas
Posted by CapnMac82 on Monday, June 3, 2024 2:02 PM

Bakster
Power will be routed via an umbilcal to a battery box. It is like what I did with the Icarus.

Keep an eye out or USB "C" connectors.  The power options are good, and the cables are ubiquitous, and you can run the diorama from a phone charger, or a portable "power pack" (which could be handy on a competition table).

  • Member since
    July 2014
  • From: Franklin Wi
Posted by Bakster on Monday, June 3, 2024 10:47 AM

mustang1989

Clean work on this so far Steve. The 3D printed rock idea sounds like a viable option but hear what you're saying on "extra steps". Will be watching for more on this one.......

 

Thanks, Joe!

 

  • Member since
    March 2012
  • From: Corpus Christi, Tx
Posted by mustang1989 on Monday, June 3, 2024 4:53 AM

Clean work on this so far Steve. The 3D printed rock idea sounds like a viable option but hear what you're saying on "extra steps". Will be watching for more on this one.......

                   

 Forum | Modelers Social Club Forum (proboards.com) 

  • Member since
    July 2014
  • From: Franklin Wi
Posted by Bakster on Sunday, June 2, 2024 3:51 PM

Todays work: I notched a hole in the base for a power connector. Power will be routed via an umbilcal to a battery box. It is like what I did with the Icarus.

Cool options are available for power where one can 3D print rocks or such that can house a 9 volt battery. Nice idea, but limited space and my lack of motivation has me going this route. It's a whole to do. I'd have to buy a file then probably pay someone to print it.

 

Below: I made a frame using Evergreen. Inside of the frame will be the terrain pad. I purchased Sculpey Air Dry Clay for this. I have not used this before, so, it is a potential boondoggle. Though, it should be a reversable boondoggle. I had watched a video where a person used it on a diorama and to good success. Worth a go.

And that is all for this weekend.

 

  • Member since
    July 2014
  • From: Franklin Wi
Posted by Bakster on Sunday, June 2, 2024 3:19 PM

"The tight fit is distinctive, and a cool effect.  But, it does not leave a lot of room for canting the base a bit, as they often seemed to park on a slope in the series (but would also be a way to encourage people to see all the "inside" detailing through that enormous greenhouse"

Thanks, Capn. I agree. The smaller size will limit options for the diorama. When I weighed the pros and cons, I expect I can still hold to my original vision for the project. I try to avoid large dioramas because they are hard to display, and I have no room for that. This should fit in a glass case that I hope to purchase one day. If I make it to the finsh with this thing, I surely will want to display it.

  • Member since
    November 2005
  • From: Formerly Bryan, now Arlington, Texas
Posted by CapnMac82 on Sunday, June 2, 2024 12:42 PM

Bakster

Here is what I purchased for the base/enclosure.

I did a fair amount of online searches, also stopped at two stores. This is the closest size I could find that trips my trigger, and is functional. I particularly like the small footprint.

More to come.

There's a "terrarium in a terrarium" sort of vibe there,  which will be cool.

Now, if only hoby shops still had the magenta & fushia-dyed lichen for that distinctly unworldly look.

The tight fit is distinctive, and a cool effect.  But, it does not leave a lot of room for canting the base a bit, as they often seemed to park on a slope in the series (but would also be a way to encourage people to see all the "inside" detailing through that enormous greenhouse.

Finding off-the-shelf answers will have its limitations, of course.

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