I decided to attempt to build a mockup of the missile box and spent a good chunk of time yesterday trying to draw out a diagram of it.

First attempt was to try tracing some of the outline.  First issue was the little emblems molded on to the covers was interfering with getting level.  Out comes the chisel and shaved one off.  Pretty confident I can replace that with some scratch styrene or shave off the other one and call it good.

So now I should be able to trace it out.  Laid it down on some sheet styrene I'd acquired and started the process.  However,  because everything is tapered, and rounded, and humped over it's near impossible to get a clean trace.  And using a ruler to clean it up only highlighted how inconsistent each trace was.

Put my thinking cap on at this point.  Everything is tapered so it's not like building a bunch of rectangles and calling it good.  I was trying to trace it because Measuring angles is a bit extreme.

Introduced a minor epiphany.  Realized can measure the widths and heights and connect the dots.  Out came the calipers and a few choice words as I only have two hands and the job at times needed three.  Needless to say I did get a template drawn out.

The arrows are to tell me which side of the pencil line to cut on.  That Pencil lead is about the thickness of the taper so cutting on the wrong side of the line will either make it too narrow or too wide.  However, I can now scan, print and apply them to the styrene as templates.  Small step forward.

I still need to figure out how to build the side walls of the box.  Again, no simple lines.  Time for more caliper work?  Nope,  had another epiphany.  Scan the part.  Flatbed scanners automatically record inches etc of the image. It turned out a lot better than I expected.

Armed with a good high res scan,open it in a photo editor with a ruler and grid line.  Voila, virtual calipers and no need for an extra hand.  Each square represents 1/100 of an inch. 

I can use this to outline the sidewalls onto the image and I just realized I can print the template from here without ever having to measure anything.  Just saved myself from counting lots of little squares.

This process is still time consuming, but not as much and more accurate and consistent than if I tried to do this all freehand.

Bakster

Hey PG, it is good to see another build from you. And yet another cool looking figure. Looking good so far, and I will be following your build.

 

I must say your LIS build has been a hoot to follow.  Can't wait to see the next episode in the saga of "what color is it really?". 

Real G

PhoenixG, No sir, the apology is mine! I did not mean any snark in my response! I was just sad that I didn't think of the magnet idea before you did the hands. But your way worked, so all is well! I bought a Bandai rebox of the Spartan to do what you are doing now. I had the original Imai kit over 30 years ago, and I botched it up pretty badly. So I wanted a rematch to finally have a decent looking Spartan on the shelf. Anyway, rock on, and keep the updates coming!

Real G,

We've just experenienced the perennial challenge of text based communications.  The lack of contextual depth in the messaging.

I wish to assure your there there was no snark perceived in any of your messages.  I was however, concerned that I had unintentionally offended.   I am relieved to discover that was not the case.

Good luck on your Spartan build when you choose to take on that challenge!  Your original experience is why I hesitate to mod.  Well, that and because there is a scarcity of Macross models where I live which meant no second chances.  Until the forums revealed HLJ to me, and much, much, more.  Well my pocket book may not be saying thank you, but the modeler in me is doing the Snoopy happy dance. :)

Thank you for the continued encouragement!

PhoenixG

 

Real G

I apologize for not being helpful in a timely manner.

 

Real G, I owe you the apology.  My comment about the timing is a failed attempt at humor. I should have prefaced it with a "lol" or something.  I'm very sorry that I came across as critical. 

PhoenixG,

No sir, the apology is mine!  I did not mean any snark in my response!  I was just sad that I didn't think of the magnet idea before you did the hands.  But your way worked, so all is well!

I bought a Bandai rebox of the Spartan to do what you are doing now.  I had the original Imai kit over 30 years ago, and I botched it up pretty badly.  So I wanted a rematch to finally have a decent looking Spartan on the shelf.

Anyway, rock on, and keep the updates coming!

Hey PG, it is good to see another build from you. And yet another cool looking figure. Looking good so far, and I will be following your build.

Real G

I apologize for not being helpful in a timely manner.

Real G, I owe you the apology.  My comment about the timing is a failed attempt at humor. I should have prefaced it with a "lol" or something.  I'm very sorry that I came across as critical. 

Thank you so much for continuing to offer your assistance and insight.

My sheet plastic skills are effectively zero.  Doesn't mean I'm not willing to try. just that I'm not so confident that my end result will be better.  I've been staring at the shoulder for who knows how long thinking about options for building the internal box, missiles, and cover.

The box would be very shallow due to how the arms attach.  There's less than .2" of clearance for it.

Once I subtract out the thickness of the plastic it'll probably be closer to .14" of space. The overall depth of the covers is .17"  Meaning the missiles would have to be just under an OAL of .25" to fit and maintain scale with the model.  The covers at their widest is about .58" w/a gentle taper down to .55".  Depending upon the thickness of the styrene used the interal width could be as little as .5".  With space between the missiles they probably should have an outside diameter no larger than .2".  Not impossible, but not much wiggle room either.

Maybe doing a standalone mockup of the box, cover, and missiles would be a good test of my commitment.  Would need to make a trip to the LHS to get some styrene...

PhoenixG,

I apologize for not being helpful in a timely manner.

For the missile bays, how handy are you with sheet plastic?  If you cut away the bay doors, the seams on the torso parts will be easier to sand flat.

Yes, you would need to make the doors, box in the missile bays and source missiles, plus make a hinge to allow the doors to open.  It's a lot of work, but the box art with the "full-open, everything hanging out" look is so cool.

-OR-

If you just made the doors, they would look better than the kit part, and you could leave them loose till after painting, which would eliminate masking.

Oh man, I wish Wave or Hasegawa would give us a new-tool kit of the Spartan with "full boogie"!

Initial test fit of the shoulders revealed massive seam lines.  All of the seams are bit proud.  Painted the hands the off white.  Surprised at how little of the preshading shows in the photo.

Assembled the shoulders.  The seams are really bad.  This is after a fair amount of sanding.

Going to need lots of filling to smooth them out.  Apparently when gluing and clampling this edge pushed it out.  Thankfully it is an inside edge on the bottom.  Makes it a good candidate for practicing puttying.  Even if I mess it up, it will be hard to see.

Completed and painted the chest cannons and top mounted gun.  Covered them in gunmetal grey. Some black wash should ease the shine and make the details pop

Real G

PhoenixG,

Don't forget the wargamer's hack of using rare earth magnets.  The huge hands of the Spartan are a good example of where magnets could simplify things, allowing the part to be painted then just popped on.

 

Can't believe I missed your post Real G.  That rare earth magnet trick would have been awesome to think of three weeks ago and several hours of labor earlier.    No worries though.  I actually had fun making the slot/tab arrangment.

It's good to try something very different and learn from it.  It does make my anxiety levels go through the roof whenever I stray from the directions.  There's always that voice in the back of my head that tells me all of the ways I'll irrevocably screw up the model.  But each time I work through a mod like this, the voice loses some of it's power and it gets easier to try the next thing. It's why one of my personal rules is to attempt at least one new technique per model.  Doesn't matter if it's painting or building.  You guys egging me on doesn't hurt either and is much appreciated. .

Real G

I think the poster art for Dougram was the aftermath at the story's end. A friend gave me a digital copy of the show, but I have yet to binge watch it until the end.

They also used it in the first episode.  Sounds like they worked to have the story come full circle.  I think it was Ikar01 who first mentioned it, but it really does have that 80's Cold War era vibe to it.  Rather than binge watchig it, I spin up an episode periodically while working at the bench.

With the hands setup to be able to be attached after the fact moving on to additional assembly.

Started putting together the various barrels for the chest cannons.  They went together suprisingly well. Only need some touch up filler here and there to smooth out a couple of places where the glue didn't completely fill the gaps.

While I was doing that I finished priming the first arm and hands.

It was clean enough for my satisfaction that I'm not worried about doing any touch up fills.

Also did some preshading around the joints of the fingers.  Haven't tried this before.  Steep learning curve on how to use an airbrush to apply that.  Kinda sloppy but I think it will work well enough.  I picked up a cheap dual action airbrush w/an adjustable stop so it be treated like a single action.  Was fiddling with it to get the right amount paint out.  Can you gues which hand was done after getting the hang of it?  Hint: the lines are more defined. :)

The action on the airbrush isn't as smooth as on the Iwata and the seal on the valve isn't as good. But, it lays down paint just fine and it works for what I got it for. 

I've decided to do a paint scheme similar to the Missile Phalanx.  The body will be a sandy color while the hands and shoulder missile covers will be an offwhite.  The center Chest cover will be scarlett.  All of which is subject to change.  ;)

PhoenixG,

Don't forget the wargamer's hack of using rare earth magnets.  The huge hands of the Spartan are a good example of where magnets could simplify things, allowing the part to be painted then just popped on.

I think the poster art for Dougram was the aftermath at the story's end.  A friend gave me a digital copy of the show, but I have yet to binge watch it until the end.

Neat! Nice going there! 

ikar01

I don't know if it was at the beginning or the end of the series since I missed both.  It could fit either way, as a person remembering what had happened or someone finding it sometime after the war and wondering what she found.  Who knows?

 

Got some bench time today and worked on the wrist flanges.  I spent the last couple of weeks hemming and hawing about the best way to trim them.  It finally dawned on me that the seams were exactly perpendicular to the at rest pose of the hands and they can be used as the reference point for where to trim.

I scored a couple of lines to mark the flanges.  Not exactly parallel to the seam but good enough for what was needed. 

Discovered that a chisel blade made trimming the flange easy.  Nice long pieces of it peeled right off.  You can see the shaped tabs at this point.

Used a fine tip sharpie to mark off the forearm where I was going to have to shave off material to for the tabs to slip into.

The sharpies point was about the exact depth I need so used that to mark how much material to remove.  Once all the black is gone between the two points should have the needed depth.

Comparison between the unmodified and modified forearm.

Modified hand is on the left the as yet to be modified hand on the right.

After trimming the flange on the second hand realized I didn't have a way to distinguish between the two so numbered it.  Also labeled Top and Bottom flanges to make it easier to test fit.

The marking and lessons learned made the second one go a lot faster.  Didn't have to do any additional itting either.  It came together without a hitch.

To remove the material for the flanges I used this file.  It's my new favorite tool.

It's about 150 grit and very aggressive.  It made short work of cutting out the slots.  It's top and bottom are flat which helped tremendously and it never clogged.  At a few bucks it ws a worthwhile investment.

I don't know if it was at the beginning or the end of the series since I missed both.  It could fit either way, as a person remembering what had happened or someone finding it sometime after the war and wondering what she found.  Who knows?

The halves of the forearms didn't align properly.  Used a hotair rework tp soften the plastic some to better align the parts. Still not perfect but it should be easier to adjust during glueing.

After reviewing the joints I've decided not to do the polycap retrofit. 

I don't have a sufficient number of polycaps to replace all the remaining joints.  Nor do I have the tools or materials for replacing the pins.

I will however try out Real G's suggestion of modifying the rotating wrists and waist to hookup like a tank turret.  It will help with the painting and assembly as well as give me a new skill to work on. :)

Next up will be figuring out how to mark the hand to determine what of the plastic will be removed to create locking tabs and then mirroring that onto the wrist of the forearm.

ikar01

I remembe that picture from the series.  It takes place in a desert and there is a woman with a cloak blowing in the wind as she stands no far away just looking at it.  It's almost like she was remember ing the last time she watched it in battle and was remembering the pilot.  I don't remember what happened to him.  

 

I remembe that picture from the series.  It takes place in a desert and there is a woman with a cloak blowing in the wind as she stands no far away just looking at it.  It's almost like she was remember ing the last time she watched it in battle and was remembering the pilot.  I don't remember what happened to him.  

Ikar01, I was introduced to Dougram quite accidentally.  I ran across this model of the Dougram and it caught my fancy as something that would be fun to paint with exteeme weathering. 

It now sits patiently in my stash waiting for it's turn on the bench.  At some point I'd like to pick up  a few of the other models from that show.

Real G

Ha ha, not my fault! Blame the Baron for the MaK, he was here before me! Hee hee.

LOL.  There's plenty of blame to go around.  You all have contributed greatly to my growing infatuation with it.  

Real G

But seriously, if you do consider rejointing the model, we can offer help.

I'll hold you to it. Before cleaning up the seams I dug out all the polycaps I'd saved.  Not as many as I'd thought but they may be enough.  I've started measuring the joints to get an idea of how much modding it would take.

Never thought I'd be using my calipers on a build, but sure am glad I have them.  Initial thoughts for minimal modification are to try thining the walls and pins just enough to fit the cap.  If there isn't enough material to do that, it may require replacing the pins and sockets.  Thinking of using Evergreen tube styrene of appropriate diameter but worried about the strength of any glue joint.

Any tips or reference material on doing this?

Had family from out of state visiting this week.  A good time was had by all but it meant the bench was ignored.

Was able to take a little time on the bench today.  Spent most of it cleaning up the seams on the arms.  Was pleasantly surprised to see they cleaned up rather well.  Hopefully they'll continue to look that good after the first coat of primer is applied.

Oh wow, I don't know any of the details here- it's just a cool lookin' mech to me!!! 

The Phalanx, Spartan, and all the other Destroids, battle and commander pods  were created by the Japanese in the early 80s if not a little before that.  I got over there and some of their shows were already of T.V. and the kits were in the stores by 1980, just after I got there.

Some of the shows included Crusher Joe, Votoms, Macross, and Dougram.  An example would be the Locust from Battletech.  It came from the Crusher Joe series and I think it was a unmanned hunter that was not the two stories high machine as called for in Battletech or Mechwarrior.

Dougram reminded me a bit like the war going on between Russia and Afganastan.

The source books for the Battletech games would cover the great houses of the Inner Sphere.  They shouild have pictures of the various units of each house.  There were also books on the mercenary forces, the machines that fought in the arenas, and the Clans.  They left during the breakup of the inner sphere and just disappeared, for a coiuple hundred years.  At first they had the same machines as everybody else, but there were put into training units or just storage while better things started to show up and their own civilization developed.  

WHen they reappeared, in the I.S. things got a bit desperate as everyone tried to figure out who these invaders were with the more powerful equipment.

Ha ha, not my fault!  Blame the Baron for the MaK, he was here before me!  Hee hee.

Yes, YES... You must work harder and harder, and get deeper and deeper.  It always happens, regardless of what you build!

But seriously, if you do consider rejointing the model, we can offer help.  The waist rotating joint could just be modded to be like a tank turret, i.e. twist lock.

And a really good way to joint the kit is to use the "ato-hame" (insert after) technique, where you can assemble all the pieces after painting and finishing are completed.  It makes cleaning up the seams easy and no-hassle.

If you want high quality Macross minis, they are commercially available, made of hard plastic, and come with decals.  A much better option compared to my simplistic ones!

Gamera

Oh that's cool! Weird about the missile racks being molded shut though...

The shoulder covers can't be posed and they didn't include anything to represent the missiles.

I very briefly thought about the possibility of scratch building something but decided it was more than I wanted to take on at this time.  I'll just stick with how they shipped and go from there.

Real G

I thought I had read somewhere that the Spartan was designed in Russia, and the others were from the USA.

That could explain the difference.  Especially since the Tomahawk, Defender, and Phalanx all use the same legs.

Real G

I like the Spartan, heck I love pretty much all things Macross (do NOT say Robotech! Shush. Shush I say, SHUSH! Stick out tongue).

LOL, it's a love shared by many.  I think if you order my stash by volume it would be Star Wars, Macross, Maschinen Krieger (I blame you all in the Finescale forums for getting me hooked on it ), and everything else.

It was many years before I learned that it wasn't "Robotech", the its true name was Macross.  :)  It seems others were a little slow at it too.

A little something from my personal archives.  Used to spend hours poring over that book.

Real G

Will you be retofitting polycaps into the joints? I figure if the kit gets proper modern jointing, it should be able to make some nice action poses.

Oh man.  You guys are going to make me work on this one.  I'm still a basic builder in mindset.  Stuff like that rarely crosses my mind.  However, the Phalanx suffers greatly because it's all friction fit.  There is benefit to be had from trying this mod.  It would also explain why I saved all those extra polycaps from my other models. LOL

I've already assembled two of the rotating joints.  Time to step back and re-evaluate.

RealG, You're minis are fantastic.  The Glaug is simply amazing.  Maybe you can get them laser scanned and then 3-D printed.  I'd be willing to buy a set.  :-)

ikar01

You could always paint it in a Battletech color scheme. For a long time everyone from the great houses to mercenary units used them in various schemes from unit colors to camoflage.

Interesting coincidence mentioning Battletech.  I was just reminded yesterday that Battletech started by using images for it's mecha from Macross, Dugram, and similar.  I think the Battletech equivalent of this unit was called the Archer.  Unfortuantely due to legal battles over the licensing (which seem to still be cropping up periodically).  You have any good Battletech references you'd recommend perusing for additional inspiration?

Hi TB thanks for joining in!

Tanker-Builder

Hmmm !

    The old plant green is a wee bit odd though isn't it?

That green is rather off putting.  In my opinion it was an unfortunate choice and undermined the mecha.  It didn't go along with any of the other color schemes of it's fellow Destroids.

Tanker-Builder

I would go for more of an anthracite color!

Hmm, I hadn't considered anthracite.  I'd briefly toyed with the idea of bitumen but that can be sticky to get right.  ;)

I like how they did a three color palette.  It works for the figure.  Keeping the scarlet or similar shade in the chest center.  If I go with anthracite for the main body, perhaps a lighter shade for the shoulders and hands...

That could make for a very aggressive looking figure.  I'll have to toy with this more.  Thanks for the suggestion TB!

Oh that's cool! Weird about the missile racks being molded shut though...

Nice collection there G, those are cool too! 

I thought I had read somewhere that the Spartan was designed in Russia, and the others were from the USA.  That would account for the marked differences in their appearances.  I like the Spartan, heck I love pretty much all things Macross (do NOT say Robotech!  Shush.  Shush I say, SHUSH!  ).

I bought the Imai kit back in the day before Carl Macek and Harmony Gold made their indellible mark on anime culture here in the USA.  At that time, I think the kits were excess inventory that were being dumped on the US market, so they were cheap  - I think I paid something like $7.50.  When the shows began airing here, prices shot up and they kits became scarce.

The Spartan is unique among the Destroids, but it shares the missile packs and the gun cluster with the Tomahawk.

I recently got the Bandai repop of the Spartan, as I was uncertain if Wave would bother making a new tool kit.  So I will definitely be keen on seeing what you do with your kit.  Will you be retofitting polycaps into the joints?  I figure if the kit gets proper modern jointing, it should be able to make some nice action poses.

Here's a 1.75" tall scratchbuilt Spartan, with some friends that I built back in the late 1980s.

I noticed there are now Battletech gaming minis the same size, but with better detail and waterslide decals available.  But back in the day there were only crummy looking white metal caricatures to play with.