Revell 1/96 Cutty Sark

Big Jake

You know since we've covered JUST about every aspect of the ship, I'd thought I post this for the die hards amoungst us..

TAM O'SHANTER

Jake,

I’m not sure of the relevance of this. Fortunately, I was spared eighteenth century Scottish poetry in my English Lit classes at high school. Shakespeare was enough for me. However, in my youth, my mother warned me, similarly:-

Ilk man and mother's son, take heed:
Whene'er to Drink you are inclin'd,
Or Cutty-sarks rin in your mind,
Think ye may buy the joys o'er dear;
Remember Tam o' Shanter's mare.

Geoff

Shipwreck

This is what I have so far.  What you see is a full set of belaying pins, a couple of overscale eyes, a 1/8" deadeye representing the 10" deadeyes, and a 3/32" deadeyes which will represent the 6, 7, & 9" deadeyes. If a hole is off even 1/64", it is noticible. I am building (trying to build) two ships, a Cutty Sark and a Maria do Amparo. That means I need a total of eight pinrails for the deadeyes.

 

That looks pretty impressive and better than my attempts so far. How did you get the holes so precise?

I have been pretty quiet the past few days because I was disappointed with my first couple of prototypes. You obviously hit the same problem that I experienced with the accuracy of the holes. I was trying to drill the holes with a hand held pin drill and it seems the years have not improved my hand/eye co-ordination skills!

I have spent most of the weekend trying to build a drilling machine out of junk. I will post pictures if it works! I do wish my parents had not disposed of the huge collection of Meccano (Erector Set) parts I had as a boy – 40 years ago.

Where did you get the 1/8” deadeyes? I could only find 9/64” and 3/32”.

Have you given any thought to what you will use for the Mizzen Royal Backstay deadeyes? I just wonder it the 3/32” might look too big.

My other concern is actually threading the lower deadeyes when they are so close to thee Bulwarks.

Geoff

uote user="GeoffWilkinson"]

 Shipwreck: Do you have any photo’s of your prototype?

Geoff

[/quote]

This is what I have so far.  What you see is a full set of belaying pins, a couple of overscale eyes, a 1/8" deadeye representing the 10" deadeyes, and a 3/32" deadeyes which will represent the 6, 7, & 9" deadeyes. If a hole is off even 1/64", it is noticible. I am building (trying to build) two ships, a Cutty Sark and a Maria do Amparo. That means I need a total of eight pinrails for the deadeyes.

You know since we've covered JUST about every aspect of the ship, I'd thought I post this for the die hards amoungst us..

TAM O'SHANTER

"Of Brownyis and of Bogillis full is this Buke."
Gawin Douglas.

When chapman billies leave the street,
And drouthy neibors, neibors, meet;
As market days are wearing late,
And folk begin to tak the gate,
While we sit bousing at the nappy,
An' getting fou and unco happy,
We think na on the lang Scots miles,
The mosses, waters, slaps and stiles,
That lie between us and our hame,
Where sits our sulky, sullen dame,
Gathering her brows like gathering storm,
Nursing her wrath to keep it warm.

This truth fand honest Tam o' Shanter,
As he frae Ayr ae night did canter:
(Auld Ayr, wham ne'er a town surpasses,
For honest men and bonie lasses).

O Tam! had'st thou but been sae wise,
As taen thy ain wife Kate's advice!
She tauld thee weel thou was a skellum,
A blethering, blustering, drunken blellum;
That frae November till October,
Ae market-day thou was na sober;
That ilka melder wi' the Miller,
Thou sat as lang as thou had siller;
That ev'ry naig was ca'd a shoe on
The Smith and thee gat roarin' fou on;
That at the Lord's house, ev'n on Sunday,
Thou drank wi' Kirkton Jean till Monday,
She prophesied that late or soon,
Thou wad be found, deep drown'd in Doon,
Or catch'd wi' warlocks in the mirk,
By Alloway's auld, haunted kirk.

Ah, gentle dames! it gars me greet,
To think how mony counsels sweet,
How mony lengthen'd, sage advices,
The husband frae the wife despises!

But to our tale: Ae market night,
Tam had got planted unco right,
Fast by an ingle, bleezing finely,
Wi reaming sAats, that drank divinely;
And at his elbow, Souter Johnie,
His ancient, trusty, drougthy crony:
Tam lo'ed him like a very brither;
They had been fou for weeks thegither.
The night drave on wi' sangs an' clatter;
And aye the ale was growing better:
The Landlady and Tam grew gracious,
Wi' favours secret, sweet, and precious:
The Souter tauld his queerest stories;
The Landlord's laugh was ready chorus:
The storm without might rair and rustle,
Tam did na mind the storm a whistle.

Care, mad to see a man sae happy,
E'en drown'd himsel amang the nappy.
As bees flee hame wi' lades o' treasure,
The minutes wing'd their way wi' pleasure:
Kings may be blest, but Tam was glorious,
O'er a' the ills o' life victorious!

But pleasures are like poppies spread,
You seize the flow'r, its bloom is shed;
Or like the snow falls in the river,
A moment white-then melts for ever;
Or like the Borealis race,
That flit ere you can point their place;
Or like the Rainbow's lovely form
Evanishing amid the storm. -
Nae man can tether Time nor Tide,
The hour approaches Tam maun ride;
That hour, o' night's black arch the key-stane,
That dreary hour he mounts his beast in;
And sic a night he taks the road in,
As ne'er poor sinner was abroad in.

The wind blew as 'twad blawn its last;
The rattling showers rose on the blast;
The speedy gleams the darkness swallow'd;
Loud, deep, and lang, the thunder bellow'd:
That night, a child might understand,
The deil had business on his hand.

Weel-mounted on his grey mare, Meg,
A better never lifted leg,
Tam skelpit on thro' dub and mire,
Despising wind, and rain, and fire;
Whiles holding fast his gude blue bonnet,
Whiles crooning o'er some auld Scots sonnet,
Whiles glow'rin round wi' prudent cares,
Lest bogles catch him unawares;
Kirk-Alloway was drawing nigh,
Where ghaists and houlets nightly cry.

By this time he was cross the ford,
Where in the snaw the chapman smoor'd;
And past the birks and meikle stane,
Where drunken Charlie brak's neck-bane;
And thro' the whins, and by the cairn,
Where hunters fand the murder'd bairn;
And near the thorn, aboon the well,
Where Mungo's mither hang'd hersel'.
Before him Doon pours all his floods,
The doubling storm roars thro' the woods,
The lightnings flash from pole to pole,
Near and more near the thunders roll,
When, glimmering thro' the groaning trees,
Kirk-Alloway seem'd in a bleeze,
Thro' ilka bore the beams were glancing,
And loud resounded mirth and dancing.

Inspiring bold John Barleycorn!
What dangers thou canst make us scorn!
Wi' tippenny, we fear nae evil;
Wi' usquabae, we'll face the devil!
The swats sae ream'd in Tammie's noddle,
Fair play, he car'd na deils a boddle,
But Maggie stood, right sair astonish'd,
Till, by the heel and hand admonish'd,
She ventur'd forward on the light;
And, wow! Tam saw an unco sight!

Warlocks and witches in a dance:
Nae cotillon, brent new frae France,
But hornpipes, jigs, strathspeys, and reels,
Put life and mettle in their heels.
A winnock-bunker in the east,
There sat auld Nick, in shape o' beast;
A towzie tyke, black, grim, and large,
To gie them music was his charge:
He screw'd the pipes and gart them skirl,
Till roof and rafters a' did dirl. -
Coffins stood round, like open presses,
That shaw'd the Dead in their last dresses;
And (by some devilish cantraip sleight)
Each in its cauld hand held a light.
By which heroic Tam was able
To note upon the haly table,
A murderer's banes, in gibbet-airns;
Twa span-lang, wee, unchristened bairns;
A thief, new-cutted frae a rape,
Wi' his last gasp his gabudid gape;
Five tomahawks, wi' blude red-rusted:
Five scimitars, wi' murder crusted;
A garter which a babe had strangled:
A knife, a father's throat had mangled.
Whom his ain son of life bereft,
The grey-hairs yet stack to the heft;
Wi' mair of horrible and awfu',
Which even to name wad be unlawfu'.
Three lawyers tongues, turned inside oot,
Wi' lies, seamed like a beggars clout,
Three priests hearts, rotten, black as muck,
Lay stinkin, vile in every neuk.

As Tammie glowr'd, amaz'd, and curious,
The mirth and fun grew fast and furious;
The Piper loud and louder blew,
The dancers quick and quicker flew,
The reel'd, they set, they cross'd, they cleekit,
Till ilka carlin swat and reekit,
And coost her duddies to the wark,
And linkit at it in her sark!

Now Tam, O Tam! had they been queans,
A' plump and strapping in their teens!
Their sarks, instead o' creeshie flainen,
Been snaw-white seventeen hunder linen!-
Thir breeks o' mine, my only pair,
That ance were plush o' guid blue hair,
I wad hae gien them off my hurdies,
For ae blink o' the bonie burdies!
But wither'd beldams, auld and droll,
Rigwoodie hags wad spean a foal,
Louping an' flinging on a crummock.
I wonder did na turn thy stomach.

But Tam kent what was what fu' brawlie:
There was ae winsome wench and waulie
That night enlisted in the core,
Lang after ken'd on Carrick shore;
(For mony a beast to dead she shot,
And perish'd mony a bonie boat,
And shook baith meikle corn and bear,
And kept the country-side in fear);
Her cutty sark, o' Paisley harn,
That while a lassie she had worn,
In longitude tho' sorely scanty,
It was her best, and she was vauntie.
Ah! little ken'd thy reverend grannie,
That sark she coft for her wee Nannie,
Wi twa pund Scots ('twas a' her riches),
Wad ever grac'd a dance of witches!

But here my Muse her wing maun cour,
Sic flights are far beyond her power;
To sing how Nannie lap and flang,
(A souple jade she was and strang),
And how Tam stood, like ane bewithc'd,
And thought his very een enrich'd:
Even Satan glowr'd, and fidg'd fu' fain,
And hotch'd and blew wi' might and main:
Till first ae caper, syne anither,
Tam tint his reason a thegither,
And roars out, "Weel done, Cutty-sark!"
And in an instant all was dark:
And scarcely had he Maggie rallied.
When out the hellish legion sallied.

As bees bizz out wi' angry fyke,
When plundering herds assail their byke;
As open pussie's mortal foes,
When, pop! she starts before their nose;
As eager runs the market-crowd,
When "Catch the thief!" resounds aloud;
So Maggie runs, the witches follow,
Wi' mony an eldritch skreich and hollow.

Ah, Tam! Ah, Tam! thou'll get thy fairin!
In hell, they'll roast thee like a herrin!
In vain thy Kate awaits thy comin!
Kate soon will be a woefu' woman!
Now, do thy speedy-utmost, Meg,
And win the key-stone o' the brig;^1
There, at them thou thy tail may toss,
A running stream they dare na cross.
But ere the keystane she could make,
The fient a tail she had to shake!
For Nannie, far before the rest,
Hard upon noble Maggie prest,
And flew at Tam wi' furious ettle;
But little wist she Maggie's mettle!
Ae spring brought off her master hale,
But left behind her ain grey tail:
The carlin claught her by the rump,
And left poor Maggie scarce a stump.

Now, wha this tale o' truth shall read,
Ilk man and mother's son, take heed:
Whene'er to Drink you are inclin'd,
Or Cutty-sarks rin in your mind,
Think ye may buy the joys o'er dear;
Remember Tam o' Shanter's mare.

woodburner

I can't address the Cutty Sark deckhouse paneling, but perhaps some background information could help.

Both options were in use in the early 1870s, and in fact at the height of their stylistic popularity.   It allows either one to be at least a stylistic option available to the owners of the ship - but what Cutty Sark had, I cant remark on - all I can do as suggest that both were contemporary.  

Useful input Jim.

Tudgay also painted ‘The Dunedin’, built in Glasgow in 1874. The deckhouse is also depicted in a uniform color. I am sure the owners/captains of these vessels would not have tolerated such an error in detail.

Close up of Deck house.

John referred earlier to the painting by a Chinese artist. The photo I have of this painting is not good enough to draw any conclusions but I thought I would post it anyway.

I have given much thought to the subject of how to represent and display a model of a ship. There has been much discussion, already, about the metal cladding and what is correct.

I’m not sure what is ‘correct’.

This is the way I feel – looking at a model is like looking at a three dimensional painting. A painting is merely a series of brush strokes of pigment on a canvas which is ‘converted’ into an image by our brain. When looking at an abstract painting no two people ‘see’ the same thing. Imagination goes to work.

In real life, the only time one would see the complete hull of a ship would be in dry dock. You would never see the hull of a ship under full sail. You would never see the hull of a ship with a huge section of planking removed exposing the cargo, stores etc.  yet ships are modeled in these ways – example on the cover of Wolfram zu Monfeld’s book ‘Historic Ship Models’.

A model only fails when it ‘doesn’t look right’ and that is in the eye of the beholder. The model above is impossible in reality but does it look wrong? Well, not to me. My eye only concentrates on parts of the model at any one time. My imagination then takes over. One moment I could be on the deck fighting with the wheel to maintain a steady course, climbing the ratlines, scared to death being out on the footropes, below deck watching cargo being stowed.

So, to start with, the first impression of the model has to match our expectations to look right. If I had never seen a ship in my life and the first model I saw had the roofs of the deckhouses colored bright purple then so be it. It wouldn’t look wrong but to most other people it would.

Then we start looking at detail. If our overall impression draws us to closer examination, the mass of rigging may hold most people in awe. However, anyone with a knowledge of the subject may observe terrible errors and that would lead to the disappointment of that individual.

First and foremost, my model has to ‘look right’ to me. It will have to draw out the memories and impressions of when I first saw her in dry-dock in Greenwich,  London. The finer details will then have to correctly describe  things to match with the knowledge I hold of that subject.

If the final outcome makes me happy then it was all worthwhile. If it gives others pleasure too then that is a bonus.

Geoff

Here is a contemporary model of a ship with white and wood cabins, in the NMM collection similar to ones shown on Cutty Sark.  

object.cfm?ID=SLR1847

Just ordered my deadeyes and 10' 42lpi chain - 150 3.5mm deadeyes for 6 bucks, 10' chain $5.20.

I thought that was pretty good pricing.

Model Expo are having a sale if anyone is interested.

Geoff

Oh dear! I guess you were able to follow my instructions..

Geoff

I think Geoff has created a monster!

Since we were talking about the wood grain effect earlier, I'll try my hand at the first picture post.  This is the deck of the DaVinci Paddle Boat, I think it came out quite well.

Jake

The booklet by Mr. Carr that I mentioned in an earlier post includes a small copy of the inboard profile and maindeck plans by John Rennie - which are reliably reported to have been drawn before the ship was built (or, at least, before she was launched).  The after deckhouse is indeed missing from both those drawings.

Mr. Campbell says, in one of the little notes on his plans, that the after deckhouse was present "in 1871, if not when launched."  It's entirely possible, though, that the researchers have turned up some additional information since those plans were drawn (which was, after all, about fifty years ago). 

If I were building a model of this ship (heaven forbid), I think my inclination would be to include the after deckhouse, leave off the white panels on the deckhouse bulkheads, and include the main skysail - simply because, to my eye, all those options make her look better.  But that's certainly not the only approach to take. 

jtilley

Regarding the deckhouse paneling -

.......Those parts are among the weaker ones in the Revell kit, which depicts the panels in the form of fine raised lines surrounding the areas that (sometime or other) were painted white.  In reality the paneling is considerably fancier than that.......

Bottom line:  the modeler can paint the deckhouse bulkheads in either style, and be pretty confident that nobody can prove it's wrong.

I have come across this discussion in the past and had, more or less, decided to follow the Tudgay (and CS Org) color scheme. Your comments on the kit, John, just reinforce that decision.

jtilley

Regarding the deckhouse paneling -

Mr. Campbell was of the opinion that when the ship was built the sides of the deckhouses were unpainted teak (presumably oiled and/or varnished).  His source is the "Tudgay Painting," which apparently was commissioned by John Willis, the ship's owner, at about the time she was launched.  I think (I'm not sure) there's also a painting by a Chinese artist that appears to date from quite early in her career and seems to show the deckhouse sides as a uniform brown.

Unfortunately the earliest extant photographs of her date from a somewhat later period in her career - when Captain Woodget commanded her.  It's quite clear that the white paint had been added to the panels by then.

She'd undergone at least one other major change of appearance by then:  the skysail yard had been removed from the mainmast.  An interesting question:  did the deckhouse sides get painted before or after the skysail yard was removed?  (In other words - is it correct to show the deckhouses with the white paint and the skysail yard fitted?)  Answer:  I have no idea.>>>Bottom line:  the modeler can paint the deckhouse bulkheads in either style, and be pretty confident that nobody can prove it's wrong.

We need to keep in mind that the original plans by John Rene indicated only one deckhouse on the fore part of the ship. According to the good people at the Cutty Sark Trust, the second deckhouse was added late in 1782. Probably while in dry dock being fitted with a new rudder. The Tudgay painting was probably after the refit. There is a painting by Francis Smitheman depicting the Cutty Sark leaving Shanghai just before loosing her rudder while racing Thermopylae. In that painting Cutty Sark has only one brown deckhouse (on the aft part of the deck concistant with other documents)!

We have had discussions about Smitheman's painting not being an original source. It probably is not; but, if you put put all the knowledge we have of the Cutty Sark at that time and put it on canvas, it would probably look very much like Smitherman painted it.

Regarding the deckhouse paneling -

Mr. Campbell was of the opinion that when the ship was built the sides of the deckhouses were unpainted teak (presumably oiled and/or varnished).  His source is the "Tudgay Painting," which apparently was commissioned by John Willis, the ship's owner, at about the time she was launched.  I think (I'm not sure) there's also a painting by a Chinese artist that appears to date from quite early in her career and seems to show the deckhouse sides as a uniform brown.

Unfortunately the earliest extant photographs of her date from a somewhat later period in her career - when Captain Woodget commanded her.  It's quite clear that the white paint had been added to the panels by then.

She'd undergone at least one other major change of appearance by then:  the skysail yard had been removed from the mainmast.  An interesting question:  did the deckhouse sides get painted before or after the skysail yard was removed?  (In other words - is it correct to show the deckhouses with the white paint and the skysail yard fitted?)  Answer:  I have no idea.

One possible explanation of the change in color scheme is that the teak paneling got beat up in some way, and the white paint was added as a means of hiding the damage.  But that's pure speculation on my part.

On another website a Cutty Sark enthusiast rather emphatically contended that the Tudgay painting doesn't deserve to be taken seriously as a source.  I disagree; it seems to be just about the only primary source we have that shows the ship in her original configuration.  But that doesn't necessarily mean that it depiction of the deckhouse bulkheads is correct.

Those parts are among the weaker ones in the Revell kit, which depicts the panels in the form of fine raised lines surrounding the areas that (sometime or other) were painted white.  In reality the paneling is considerably fancier than that.  Both Imai and Airfix actually did a better job of represenitng it.  (I haven't seen either of the Academy kits, but I think they fall in the same category.  I have a suspicion that the most recent Academy version is in fact a clone of the Imai one.)

Bottom line:  the modeler can paint the deckhouse bulkheads in either style, and be pretty confident that nobody can prove it's wrong.

Jake,

IM me your email and I'll send you a sheet that explains how to do it.

Geoff

IF I ever figure out how to post pictures in these threads it will be great, but damn, I've tried and tried and tried, I give up.  Maybe it's something to do with web shots, Either I get no picture or a really small one.

Geoff,

One thing to remember when replacing the belaying pins with straight wire is you need to consider when you drill the hole it will be work to get the small wire into a slightly smaller hole.  Unless you decide to drill the hole slightly bigger and add a touch of ACC glue. Which is work in itself.  That is why I decided to use the brass pre-made belaying pins.  They are flared at the top half and won't fall through the hole drilled. You can still use a touch of ACC glue on the underside of the BP rack, so they won't move around or fall out while you setting the rack in place.

In this pic, I was able to carefully trim and paint the pin a tan color which looked great.

http://news.webshots.com/photo/1208521167054402330jhrTbU

BUT when I've done other Cutty Sarks, I use the brass premade pins, saves me about 3 hours of painting and retrimming.

Other sections of the ship need just about as much attention.  Depending on what period of her history you are modeling.  The detail on the cabin painting was just about the other most  PITA part of the build. This pictures shows the correct way to paint the panels as painted during her launching. The inset sections are correctly painted white, NOT brown as in the instructions. The best way is to paint these are to mask with micro tape, paint, seal with a flatining agent, remove the mask and paint the brown on.

http://news.webshots.com/photo/1208521301054402330Oafhvz

The white trim at the cabin top edges are correct, I have NO EARTHLY Idea why in some versions of the instructions they say to paint the rof sections  "blue".

Jake

GeoffWilkinson

I took your point, early on, about reinforcing the rails and that is one of the reasons I would like to have the rails attached to the hull before assembly.  It would seem to be almost impossible to do a good job of this once they were in place as per the kit instructions.

Geoff

Geoff, I will share my thoughts about attaching the rails before the deck. If you install your pinrails, stanchions, and chainplate, etc., then start flexing the hull in order to get your deck in place; you may be putting stress on all those connections on the hull. I do not think you will want to compromise the strength of all your good work!

On the other hand, if you can just drop that deck in place between those pinrails; you just made your build a lot easier! My pinrails are about 7/32", and that is a real tight clearance to get the deck between them! I would have to flex the hull out an addition 5/32" or so to get the deck in. And, wonder if you have to manipulate the deck to get it where it belongs?

GeoffWilkinson

 

Shipwreck:

 

Geoff, I am glade to see you getting so ambitious about your Cutty Sark build. What I am doing is scratch building the pinrails that support the deadeyes. My new rails are about 7/32 wide and about 3 1/2 inches long. That gives me room to layout the belaying pins and dead eyes as in Campbell's plans. It also allows room for small bits and relocation of the wrenches. I am still working on a prototype for the main mast pinrails. They are nice and straight. The challenge will be the pinrails for the fore mast which must fit the curve of the bow. The next problem will be securing them to the hull so that they will stay there. I have been through several ways of doing that. At this point I plan on attaching strips of angle styrene to the bulwarks and then attaching the pin rails to both the styrene shelf and the bulwarks. The new pinrails will experience stress that the kit pinrails would never have to take.
I have those neat photos of the rigging and bullwarks in black and white. Where did you get the neat color shots?

With a scale size pinrail you might just be able to squeeze the deck in!

 

 

So, I am not alone! It’s very refreshing to hear that someone else is on a parallel course with me. Do you have any photo’s of your prototype?

The color shots I found on the internet in an album belonging to rubydragon_63. I have just tried to find his album again – without success although I did see some pics of his CS build. If you PM your email I can email you some of the photo’s I do have that may help you.

Geoff

 

I will not be working on the pinrails till next week. As soon as I can get something that seems to be worthwhile; I will try to share it!  When you space out your pinrails and then the deadeyes in a row behind them, consider the size of deadeyes you will be using. Campbell calls for 10, 9, 7, and 6 inch dia. dead eyes. You will not be able to duplicate those sizes in scale, unless you scratch build your own. I plan on using 1/8" for the 10" deadeyes and 3/32" for the rest (the upper deadeyes 3/32” and 1/16”). Visually, this will show that there is a difference! Also, you need to consider holes to mount the skids and davits on the main rail. BTW, the kit boats and skids are way short of scale. Easy fix to spread out the skids, but the boats would be ridiculously short!

John.

Your comments are always worthy of note and are part of the reason for my ‘slow’ progress in assembly of the hull. Sometimes I think I am beginning to obsess about these pinrails, however, I think it will be worth it in the long run.

I thought I had found the ultimate solution to the belay pins with my 1mm dia copper wire recovered from discarded coax. My initial prototype rail proved these to be too thick and clumsy looking. They need to be at 2mm centers in places.

Yesterday I ‘discovered’ my local hardware store sold 50’ reels of brass wire in all different gauges at around $2.50 a reel. Seemed like a bargain to me!

I took your point, early on, about reinforcing the rails and that is one of the reasons I would like to have the rails attached to the hull before assembly.  It would seem to be almost impossible to do a good job of this once they were in place as per the kit instructions.

I was impressed with the look of Paul Robertson’s model where he had replaced those Bulwark supports:-

I take the point that not all of these will be visible on the finished ship.

Geoff

A couple of points about the pinrails. 

One - when the model is finished, lots of the pins will have coils of rope draped over them, and what's behind and/or under the pinrails themselves will be difficult, if not impossible, to see.  (The number of coils will, of course, depend on how much of the running rigging is included; if all the "sail gear" - clewlines, buntlines, leechlines, sheets, etc. - are included, the vast majority of the pins will be occupied.   If you stick to the more basic running rigging - which is my strong recommendation for newcomers - there obviously won't be as many rope coils.  But a lot of the space under the pinrails will be hidden in any case.) 

Two - that being the case, you can get away with some practical modifications for the sake of strength.  Few things in ship modeling are more depressing than to see a pinrail come loose from the bulwark when you're securing the last of twenty or thirty lines to it.  There are a couple of good ways to reinforce the pinrails.  One is to run some steel pins through the rail and the bulwark.  Better - add some reinforcement under the joint where the rail and the bulwark meet.  Said reinforcement can take the form of little basswood strips, or maybe pieces of styrene.  I made the pinrails for my little model of the Hancock out of L-section Plastruct (ABS plastic structural shapes - sold in the model railroad department of the hobby shop).  The L is upside down, with the vertical leg glued to the bulwark.  The vertical part is cut away at each end, where it would be visible; in the middle it's hidden by the rope coils.  That arrangement has now held up for about twenty-five years.

As for belaying pins - that's a decision for the individual modeler.  If you've got access to a lathe, it's a no-brainer.  If not - well, the brass ones from Bluejacket (which, in my experience, are considerably more uniform in size and shape than those from Model Expo) would be a big improvement over the kit versions.  But they aren't cheap.  (Remember, though - there's no earthly reason to buy all the ones you're going to need at the same time.)  The modeler needs to balance two factors:  the expense vs. the possibility that, when the model's finished, he'll find himself saying "Sheesh, I wish I'd spent a few more bucks back last year on decent belaying pins; the model sure would look better if I had."

bondoman

Without the kit in hand I can only guess, but.... I will assume that the pinrails are separate parts and don't come as part of the hull casting. If so, you should consider making your own from styrene or brass stock. Then you can position the pins and those great looking "chain" rods at will, using Campbell's drawing as a pattern.

You also should consider modeling those rod braces for the rails. Drill the holes in the deck before you install it.

Thanks bondoman. The pinrails are separate part and I am scratchbuilding a prototype pinrail at this moment. One thing i have had to reconsider are the belay pins I made. While they looked fine on the Fife Rail they are far to thick and clumsy for the pinrail.

Geoff

Shipwreck

Geoff, I am glade to see you getting so ambitious about your Cutty Sark build. What I am doing is scratch building the pinrails that support the deadeyes. My new rails are about 7/32 wide and about 3 1/2 inches long. That gives me room to layout the belaying pins and dead eyes as in Campbell's plans. It also allows room for small bits and relocation of the wrenches. I am still working on a prototype for the main mast pinrails. They are nice and straight. The challenge will be the pinrails for the fore mast which must fit the curve of the bow. The next problem will be securing them to the hull so that they will stay there. I have been through several ways of doing that. At this point I plan on attaching strips of angle styrene to the bulwarks and then attaching the pin rails to both the styrene shelf and the bulwarks. The new pinrails will experience stress that the kit pinrails would never have to take.
I have those neat photos of the rigging and bullwarks in black and white. Where did you get the neat color shots?

With a scale size pinrail you might just be able to squeeze the deck in!

So, I am not alone! It’s very refreshing to hear that someone else is on a parallel course with me. Do you have any photo’s of your prototype?

The color shots I found on the internet in an album belonging to rubydragon_63. I have just tried to find his album again – without success although I did see some pics of his CS build. If you PM your email I can email you some of the photo’s I do have that may help you.

Geoff

Shipwreck, On the Tamiya copper you simply let the first coat cure, which is at least a few days. I probably waited a week...Also in brush paining anything you don't double back on your strokes.

Alternatively and probably easier would be some simple masking then  two coats from an airbrush done in one day.

Geoff, I am glade to see you getting so ambitious about your Cutty Sark build. What I am doing is scratch building the pinrails that support the deadeyes. My new rails are about 7/32 wide and about 3 1/2 inches long. That gives me room to layout the belaying pins and dead eyes as in Campbell's plans. It also allows room for small bits and relocation of the wrenches. I am still working on a prototype for the main mast pinrails. They are nice and straight. The challenge will be the pinrails for the fore mast which must fit the curve of the bow. The next problem will be securing them to the hull so that they will stay there. I have been through several ways of doing that. At this point I plan on attaching strips of angle styrene to the bulwarks and then attaching the pin rails to both the styrene shelf and the bulwarks. The new pinrails will experience stress that the kit pinrails would never have to take.
I have those neat photos of the rigging and bullwarks in black and white. Where did you get the neat color shots?

With a scale size pinrail you might just be able to squeeze the deck in!

Without the kit in hand I can only guess, but.... I will assume that the pinrails are separate parts and don't come as part of the hull casting. If so, you should consider making your own from styrene or brass stock. Then you can position the pins and those great looking "chain" rods at will, using Campbell's drawing as a pattern.

You also should consider modeling those rod braces for the rails. Drill the holes in the deck before you install it.

CapnMac82

As Prof Tilley pointed out more elegantly than I can, if you really want to get submerged into correcting things, you will need a great deal of time and patience, and you'll likely have some very full sprues afterwards.

One of Prof Tilley’s pet peeves are the molded shrouds, ratlines and deadeyes. I had decided not to use the molded shrouds/ratlines after seeing bigjakes photo and description of his build. I have since progressed to hating the deadeyes too. They just look so wrong and clumsy. They are the hallmark of this kit.

Now, I’m not about to start complaining about this kit, in fact I think, for the time it was made, the detail and accuracy is pretty awesome – but….

We have had discussion, earlier in this thread, about the viability of the plastic belay pins and these are now included in my list of mods. This weekend I was contemplating the assembly of the deadeyes that attach to the pinrails and how close I could get these to the bulwarks and still manage to thread the lanyards.

 I made a little mockup of the bulwarks and pinrail to the dimensions of the kit, drilled holes and inserted my copper belay pins. I was about to drill a series of holes between the bulwarks and belay pins and was also contemplating the best way to fill the notches that would have located the kit deadeyes.

I just felt something was wrong. I recalled an observation made by Prof Tilley earlier in this thread:

And if you're thinking about modifying the pinrails anyway, it's worth noting that Revell greatly exaggerated the "steps" where they change in width abreast the masts.  (That, I guess, was a concession to the out-of-scale method of mounting the lower deadeyes.)  The pinrails do indeed get wider in way of the masts, shrouds, and deadeyes, but not as much as Revell would have us believe.  That would be an easy thing to correct - at an early stage of construction.

 I stopped and consulted the Campbell plans and all of the photo’s I could find of this detail.

The kit provides 16 equally spaced pins along the rail for the fore shrouds with the deadeyes behind them. The plans and photos show the pins located between the deadeyes.

I am currently experimenting to see if the correct arrangement is feasible to model at this scale. So far, I have been unable to find an example of this detail on photo’s of other CS models.

If I can achieve sufficient  reduction in the width of the pinrails then I should be able to attach them to the hull halves prior to the assembly of the hull and deck.

Now, one of the great things about this kit is that it is a bit like a kit of a Texan modified to look like a Zero.

As Prof Tilley pointed out more elegantly than I can, if you really want to get submerged into correcting things, you will need a great deal of time and patience, and you'll likely have some very full sprues afterwards.

I went browsing through both my own photos and the photos the Galveston Texas Seaport Museum has of Elissa.  Nice face-palm doing that, Elissa is a steel-hull ship with a red waterline stripe.

http://img1.eyefetch.com/p/fr/222124-fda05e5c-1e34-456a-a8eb-38583ded78c1l.jpg

Now, it a person were going to obsess over it, you need to have that green "scum" line if the ship is working.  But, that's a detail that will mostly just look like sloppy painting at small scale.  I ought to go see what images are out there for Bluenose and Pride of Baltimore.  Also Star of India, doubly so since she's moored in saltwater.

So, it winds up being a matter of style.  Personally, I like to start with a plain-jane gold base over primer.  Then a bronze over that, sometimes as a wash, sometimes as a finish coat.  That is then "dot" weathered using a dark brass; a leather/roan; and either an olive or black-green.  I generally use a circular motion, with any tendency for direction being fore-to-aft.  Then, individual plates get picked out.

But, I also find that I will wind up using every color of black I own (and most of the panzergrau) to get the color contrasts.

Wilbur, What is your procedure for laying on the various coats of paint? I am wondering how are you apply the multiple coats of Tamiya without lifting the base coate(s)? 

Wilbur,

I wish I could take credit for inventing the tech. but I learned it from "How to build Plastic Ship Mdoels" back in 1982 or 83.  The reason for the Floquil is that is what he used in the book.  I've heard that you can use Testors, BUT testors does not produce an Antique White, plenty of pale greens but no antique white yet. I would suspect that ANY FLAT enamel would produce the same effect, try an experiment.