PT Boat question...

Interesting....

Seems to me that torpedos were.... consumables.... & would be fresher than the boats?

So whatever colo(u)rs you paint the torpedos you are likely to be as right as wrong....

Reminds me of a phrase... " EVERYTHING is TRUE..... just not all at the same time... or to the same people...."

 

Jon_a_its

Interesting....

Seems to me that torpedos were.... consumables.... & would be fresher than the boats?

 

I'll bet most boats carried torps for months w/o firing them in anger...maybe years in some cases...

Manstein's revenge

I'll bet most boats carried torps for months w/o firing them in anger...maybe years in some cases...

No, they would have been pulled for maintenance and inspection on a regular basis even if not used. Bad designs and admiral's egos non-withstanding, the Navy took  dim view on ordnance that didn't work when the time came to use it. Months is possible, but not years.

Tracy White

Manstein's revenge:

I'll bet most boats carried torps for months w/o firing them in anger...maybe years in some cases...

No, they would have been pulled for maintenance and inspection on a regular basis even if not used. Bad designs and admiral's egos non-withstanding, the Navy took  dim view on ordnance that didn't work when the time came to use it. Months is possible, but not years.

Very true. When I typed that I knew i was stretching it but wanted to make a point that it was a very rare encounter, indeed, when a PT Boat actually got a chance to fire a torp in anger...not like the movies where battleship plinking was an everyday occurance...in fact, I challenge anyone to reference a torp strike from a US PT on an enemy destroyer or larger...in the pacific... 

By the way, got the WE PE set (2 frets)...pretty nice, but was let down a bit by the instructions which don't seem to reference all of the pieces on both frets---wonder if I was short-changed a sheet? man, that Revell boat still can be made nice, considering its age!

Manstein's revenge

 I challenge anyone to reference a torp strike from a US PT on an enemy destroyer or larger...in the pacific... 

Battle of Surigao Strait

Manstein's revenge

in fact, I challenge anyone to reference a torp strike from a US PT on an enemy destroyer or larger...in the pacific...

Are you just "fish"ing for interesting boats to do? 

There were certainly more targets earlier in the war; one of the reasons the PT boats started carrying more guns later was that they were running into more barges than actual destroyers, but there were definitely hits on all sorts of larger vessels, including:

PT-34 hit a freighter in Binanga Bay, Philippine Islands, Jan 18 1942
PT-41 hit a small freighter near Subic Bay, Philippine Islands, Jan 24, 1942
PT-32 hits IJN Minelayer Yaeyama with a dud torpedo  February 1 1942
PT-34 hits IJN cruiser Kuma on the bow with a dud torpedo, April 8, 1942

That's just from text searching for "hit" on "At Close Quarters."

WEM's customer service is a great place to start if you suspect a problem...

 

 

EdGrune

Manstein's revenge:

 I challenge anyone to reference a torp strike from a US PT on an enemy destroyer or larger...in the pacific... 

 

Battle of Surigao Strait

Okay, I knew someone would throw that out, but tell me: what PT boat hit what ship?

Tracy White

Manstein's revenge:

in fact, I challenge anyone to reference a torp strike from a US PT on an enemy destroyer or larger...in the pacific...

Are you just "fish"ing for interesting boats to do? 

There were certainly more targets earlier in the war; one of the reasons the PT boats started carrying more guns later was that they were running into more barges than actual destroyers, but there were definitely hits on all sorts of larger vessels, including:

PT-34 hit a freighter in Binanga Bay, Philippine Islands, Jan 18 1942
PT-41 hit a small freighter near Subic Bay, Philippine Islands, Jan 24, 1942
PT-32 hits IJN Minelayer Yaeyama with a dud torpedo  February 1 1942
PT-34 hits IJN cruiser Kuma on the bow with a dud torpedo, April 8, 1942

That's just from text searching for "hit" on "At Close Quarters."

WEM's customer service is a great place to start if you suspect a problem...

 

 

LOL, of course---always more fun to model a boat w/ some history under her belt...

But, I still stick to my premise since in most navies a minelayer/minesweeper is lower in pecking order than a destroyer, and even if that weren't true---how'd they know they scored a hit if it was a dud...??? I know subs can hear dud-strikes through underwater listening, but a PT boat?  I dare say it was a case of over-claiming in the heat of battle...

Actually most of their claimed hits were either erroneous or for a ship of a type heavier ... the minelayer was claimed as a sunk cruiser. I usually use the listed event as a starting point and try filtering through the CombinedFleet.com TROMs for confirmation or extra information.  I've been pecking away at a "Daily history of the USN PT boat for about a year off and on. I treat each claim as a hint to start digging, but probably more false than truth.

RE: Surigao straight. My notes read:

800x600 Normal 0 false false false EN-US X-NONE X-NONE MicrosoftInternetExplorer4

October 25, 1944, 39 PT boats take part in the battle of Surigao Straight; The light cruiser Abukuma was crippled by a torpedo hit by PT-137. PT-493 was damaged by gunfire and beached, later sinking. All told, PT casualties were three killed and 20 wounded.

Tracy White

Actually most of their claimed hits were either erroneous or for a ship of a type heavier ... the minelayer was claimed as a sunk cruiser. I usually use the listed event as a starting point and try filtering through the CombinedFleet.com TROMs for confirmation or extra information.  I've been pecking away at a "Daily history of the USN PT boat for about a year off and on. I treat each claim as a hint to start digging, but probably more false than truth.

RE: Surigao straight. My notes read:

800x600 Normal 0 false false false EN-US X-NONE X-NONE MicrosoftInternetExplorer4

October 25, 1944, 39 PT boats take part in the battle of Surigao Straight; The light cruiser Abukuma was crippled by a torpedo hit by PT-137. PT-493 was damaged by gunfire and beached, later sinking. All told, PT casualties were three killed and 20 wounded.

Cool info, thanks...I wonder if I can model the Revell PT into the configuration of one of those boats---I'm guessing they were of the latter variety w/ radar, roll-offs, etc...

Greetings Eric,

I finished the Revell kit last year and I've included the posting for my build below.  Lots of questions. The 109 was dark green.  The evidence I've come across suggests Tropical Green which is simply a paint created in the field.  The photos I've seen indicate that it's not "Tropical Green" as sold by WEM but rather more like 5-NG (Navy Green) sold by WEM.  At the time Kennedy's boat was sunk the boats were a variety of colors.  The two skippers I spoke with from PT-105 are very firm that their boat was dark gray.  It was probably Measure 1 which is 5-D and also available from WEM.  I've found some color photos of these boats in Measure 1.  I believe that the 109 was in this measure prior to being painted green.  By the time President Kennedy took her she was probably pretty faded from the tropical sun.  A color photo of a 77 foot Elco that I have tied up to the 109 boat is in a home brew light gray.  

Regarding the WEM photoetch set.  In my mind there are some parts that were very helpful to me and others I didn't like at all.  For example I think 1:72 is too large to have flat grab handles and depression rails.  

The fun thing about PT's is that the crews made due with what they could get their hands on.  Here's the link to my build.  I thoroughly enjoyed building this model and hope you do as well.

http://www.modelshipgallery.com/gallery/misc/patrol/pt109-72-dw/dw-index.html

Dave