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Revell 1/90 Nina Completed

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  • Member since
    July 2010
  • From: Tempe AZ
Posted by docidle on Wednesday, January 16, 2013 8:29 PM

Here are a couple of shots of the anchors and rigging.

 

 

       

 

 

  • Member since
    July 2010
  • From: Tempe AZ
Posted by docidle on Wednesday, January 16, 2013 8:33 PM

Lost a couple of shots somehow......

       

 

 

  • Member since
    March 2012
  • From: Marysville, WA
Posted by David_K on Thursday, January 17, 2013 8:43 AM

Anchors look good, Steve!  I need to learn about tying a seize around loops...looks way better than just a clove hitch...

Impressive, as usual!

        _~
     _~ )_)_~
     )_))_))_)
     _!__!__!_         
     (_D_P_K_)
   ~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    ~~~~~~~~~~~

Current Project:  Imai/ERTL Spanish Galleon #2

Recently Finished: Revell 1/96 Cutty Sark

Next Up:  ???

 

  • Member since
    July 2010
  • From: Tempe AZ
Posted by docidle on Thursday, January 17, 2013 11:52 AM

Thanks Dave.  I'll scan a page that shows how to tie off your anchors.  I found it very helpful.

In regards to seizing lines, you'll notice the helping hands, which I wouldn't trade for anything.  Costs about $20 and worth every cent.  

You can seize lines on your ship as well, I found that you need tension and a clip and then it's fairly simple (thank you Boy Scouts).

Steve

       

 

 

  • Member since
    July 2010
  • From: Tempe AZ
Posted by docidle on Thursday, January 17, 2013 11:58 AM

Does anyone know if the Nina had a main stay in the lateen rig version?

Thanks,

Steve

       

 

 

  • Member since
    July 2009
  • From: Jacksonville, Florida
Posted by Vagabond_Astronomer on Thursday, January 17, 2013 6:03 PM

Hello Steve,

As I mentioned in my other post, in all likelihood the answer should be no. Lateen rigged vessels are tacked by  swinging their massive yards around; in many cases, if not most, two and three rigged lateeners had a main yard that stretched longer than the vessel!

Here's an excellent explanation, by the way, of the thrilling way in which a caravela latina  was tacked, from George R. Schwarz's thesis, "The History and Development of Caravels" (TAMU) -

"The basic method involved in changing tack was unwieldy, requiring timing and experience (Figure 5-1). As the vessel fell off the wind, the brace and sheet were loosened, and the parrel was given a bit of slack so that the yard was somewhat unbound from the mast. A crewmember then hauled on the yard until it was vertical and shifted the sheet to the other side, catching the wind once again. At this point, the shrouds now to windward were tightened and those now to leeward were loosened. As the ship again turned into the wind, the sail was sheeted aft on the leeward side, and the yard was again made fast to the mast and trimmed with tacks and braces for the new tack (Landström 1961:83; Pryor 2000:67)."

This doesn't rule mainstays out; in some instances, there may have been vessels so equipped, but most evidence doesn't support them as being common. In all likelihood, the Nina, as originally rigged, probably didn't.

Terribly Fond of Caravelas,

Rob

"I have loved the stars too dearly to be fearful of the night..."
  • Member since
    March 2004
  • From: Spartanburg, SC
Posted by subfixer on Thursday, January 17, 2013 6:48 PM

A lateen rigged vessel's sail doesn't necessarily have to be unbound and shifted. A lateen rigged Sunfish sailboat simply tacks with the boom and spar remaining on the same side. On a starboard tack the sail is held off of the mast by the wind and when on a port tack the sail is pressed on the mast by the wind. Chafing is not too much of a problem with dacron sails and imagine that chafing gear may aleviate wear on a canvas sail.

I am not implying that a caravel did do this, but that it could be possible.

Lee

I'm from the government and I'm here to help.

  • Member since
    July 2009
  • From: Jacksonville, Florida
Posted by Vagabond_Astronomer on Thursday, January 17, 2013 7:08 PM

Hello Lee,

The lateen sail had a very long life, and on full square riggers could be found into the 18th century as the mizzen sail. Those were certainly handled differently.

This is actually a problem I am facing with a little 1/200 model of the Nina I am working on right now (Lindberg release of the old Pyro kit). In my epic quest to turn "junk into jewels", the only thing that remains of the original model is the hull. I've just completed the shrouds, and am working on the yards. This version, based upon Enrico d'Albertis' work in 1892, has a main yard that is longer than the vessel;  two different models that have been made of this interpretation have an incredible amount of tackle at the lower end of that yard. Not sure which version's running rigging I plan on reproducing.

Regardless, the thought of raising that huge yard into the vertical seems daunting, though it could be done. At least in 1/200, it's a piece of cake.

Wonder what sailors of those days of yore would have made of Dacron?

My stepdaughter is interested in getting a Sunfish, ironically.

Cheers,

Rob

"I have loved the stars too dearly to be fearful of the night..."
  • Member since
    March 2012
  • From: Marysville, WA
Posted by David_K on Thursday, January 17, 2013 10:03 PM

Steve, I'd love to see that seizing page you mentioned....I've looked around a little, but I can't find a good description of how to *hide* the ends of the line...just something I need to figure out...

Dave

ps-Got my Imai Pirate ship in the mail today....Sa-Weet!  So obvious that it's just the Spanish Galleon, but they removed a big ol' piece of a sprue to take out the base and Spanish Galleon nameplate, and then included an extra sprue including a Pirate Ship nameplate on the side...plus BONUS, at the factory somebody accidentaly threw in an extra sprue of the blocks, anchors, shields and pinrails! Extra parts!

Sorry for the hijack...

        _~
     _~ )_)_~
     )_))_))_)
     _!__!__!_         
     (_D_P_K_)
   ~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    ~~~~~~~~~~~

Current Project:  Imai/ERTL Spanish Galleon #2

Recently Finished: Revell 1/96 Cutty Sark

Next Up:  ???

 

  • Member since
    May 2003
  • From: Greenville, NC
Posted by jtilley on Friday, January 18, 2013 7:05 AM

There were various ways to rig a lateen yard.  The only one I've seen in operation is the mizzen yard of the replica of the Susan Constant, at Jamestown. 

That yard is rigged (quite accurately, I think) with a fairly simple "peak halyard" tackle running from the upper end of the yard to a block on the crosstrees, and then to a belaying point on the deck.  The sail is rigged with three or four "brails," which run from grommets stitched into the foot of the sail to blocks on the yard, and then to the deck.  Two tackles called (oddly enough) "bowlines" run from the lower end of the yard to blocks secured to the aftermost main shroud on each side; they're used to swing the yard back and forth.  The other major piece of rigging is the sheet, which runs from the lower aft corner of the sail to the deck.

A couple of times when my students and I have been in Jamestown on field trips, a staff member has taught four or five of the students how to handle the mizzen sail.  The first step is to slack off the tacks and the sheet.  Then the brails are hauled up, turning the sail into a loose bundle on the yard.  The peak halyard is then hauled taut, bringing the yard vertical next to the mast.  Then one or two people grab the bottom end of the yard and walk it around the after side of the mast to the other side.  The peak halyard and the brails are slacked off.  The sheet and bowlines are hauled taut, and now the sail is ready to handle on the new tack.

The Susan Constant has a mizzen stay; it doesn't interfere with the process of taking in and resetting the mizzen because the yard is walked around the after side of the mast.  Whether Columbus's ships had mizzen stays I don't know - and I don't think anybody else knows for sure either.  But there was no practical reason why they couldn't.

I once asked the "captain" of the Susan Constant  how long that evolution took (wiith with a crew of genuine sailors instead of landlubbing college students).  He said two or three guys could do it in one or two minutes.  (Obviously it would take more crew in a bigger ship, but I don't imagine the time would change much.)  He also said that when the Susan Constant was out on a routine sail in the James River and Hampton Roads, with lots of tacking to be done, he simply didn't bother to set the mizzen.  He said the ship handles ok without it, as long as the spritsail isn't set.  (I have a sneaking suspicion that the carefully concealed diesel engine helps a bit.)

Hiding the ends of a seizing gets harder as the line gets smaller.  The usual full-size practice (as usual, it's difficult to describe ropework verbally) is to start the process by forming a long, skinny bight (unsecured loop) of the seizing line and hold it with one hand alongside the rope or spar being seized.  Wind the seizing line around the rope or spar, taking it around the bight.  When you have enough turns, pass the end of the seizing line through the bight.  Pull both ends taut, so the bight gets yanked under the seizing (and clamped by it to the rope or spar being served).  Snip off the ends and tuck them under the seizing.

On a moderate-sized ship model that method works pretty well if you're seizing a relatively large rope or wrapping the line around a relatively large spar (e.g., the wooldings on a mast).  A touch of white glue or CA will hold everything in place.  For smaller applications, in which the line is thin, slippery, and droopy, I usually just pass each end under a couple of turns of the serving, pull them taut, apply a tiny drop of white glue, let it dry, and snip off the ends of the serving line as close as I can (frequently resorting to a razor blade to do it). 

Hope that hellps a little.

Youth, talent, hard work, and enthusiasm are no match for old age and treachery.

  • Member since
    March 2012
  • From: Marysville, WA
Posted by David_K on Friday, January 18, 2013 11:31 AM

"Pull both ends taut, so the bight gets yanked under the seizing"

That sentence made the concept *click*!  

Thanks, Jtilley!  

        _~
     _~ )_)_~
     )_))_))_)
     _!__!__!_         
     (_D_P_K_)
   ~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    ~~~~~~~~~~~

Current Project:  Imai/ERTL Spanish Galleon #2

Recently Finished: Revell 1/96 Cutty Sark

Next Up:  ???

 

  • Member since
    September 2012
Posted by GMorrison on Monday, January 21, 2013 4:32 PM

subfixer

A lateen rigged vessel's sail doesn't necessarily have to be unbound and shifted. A lateen rigged Sunfish sailboat simply tacks with the boom and spar remaining on the same side. On a starboard tack the sail is held off of the mast by the wind and when on a port tack the sail is pressed on the mast by the wind. Chafing is not too much of a problem with dacron sails and imagine that chafing gear may aleviate wear on a canvas sail.

I am not implying that a caravel did do this, but that it could be possible.

Lee

I believe that's the way feluccas do it.

 Modeling is an excuse to buy books.

 

  • Member since
    July 2010
  • From: Tempe AZ
Posted by docidle on Wednesday, February 6, 2013 7:52 PM

Thank you Rob, Sub, GM and Prof T for the input and photos.  As I mentioned on the Santa Maria thread, I finally found an affordable copy of X. Pastor's "The Ships of Christopher Columbus" and have been reading it or maybe devouring it is a better description.  A lot of good information.  I'll start posting again and thank you all again for the help,

Steve

       

 

 

  • Member since
    July 2010
  • From: Tempe AZ
Posted by docidle on Saturday, November 16, 2013 6:53 PM

Since I am winding down with the Thomas build I thought it was time to start working on these again.  The Nina has the quarter/poop deck glued down and the deck for the Pinta is installed.

Enjoy,

Steve

       

 

 

  • Member since
    July 2010
  • From: Tempe AZ
Posted by docidle on Saturday, November 16, 2013 10:56 PM

Here are a couple more pics.

Steve

       

 

 

  • Member since
    July 2010
  • From: Tempe AZ
Posted by docidle on Thursday, November 28, 2013 8:37 PM

Happy Thanksgiving everyone.

Just a couple of update photos for the Nina.  Sorry the photos are so dark, I actually was using the flash…..

Enjoy,

Steve

       

 

 

  • Member since
    July 2010
  • From: Tempe AZ
Posted by docidle on Wednesday, December 11, 2013 1:13 PM

A little bit of work on the Nina.

       

 

 

  • Member since
    August 2012
Posted by JimNTENN on Wednesday, December 11, 2013 1:43 PM

Man, I'm totally blown away. Seeing work like this almost discourages me from building models anymore....not really because I enjoy the hobby too much. But I've built models all my life(roughly 40 years) and I can't even begin to fathom how some guys on here are able to put such realism into their work. That's absolutely incredible!

Current project(s): Hobby Boss: 1/72 F9F-2 Panther

                                  Midwest Products: Skiff(wood model)

                                  

  • Member since
    December 2002
  • From: Greenville,Michigan
Posted by millard on Friday, December 13, 2013 3:41 PM

Steve

  I've been going through this total post today. Somehow I missed it before (Seniors what can you do with them).Nice looking builds. I really like yor coloring. I'll try to keep up better.

Rod

  • Member since
    July 2010
  • From: Tempe AZ
Posted by docidle on Sunday, December 15, 2013 10:48 PM

Jim,

Thanks for the kudos.  I feel the same way when I see some of the masterpieces that are built here and on other forums.  I took a 40 year hiatus until my younger brother finally convinced me to get back into it.  Of course it was all very alteristic on his part except for the fact that he wanted me to build some models for him.  I always try to make a better model than the last one I completed and looking at my first models, I find that I want to redo them using the techniques I developed since then.

Thanks again,

Steve 

       

 

 

  • Member since
    July 2010
  • From: Tempe AZ
Posted by docidle on Sunday, December 15, 2013 10:57 PM

Rod,

Thanks for checking up on me, since I can get in trouble faster than greesed lightning and thanks for the kudos as always.  I think I might have gone too dark on the coloring but I still like it.  I saw your Roman merchant ship over on Model Warships and she looks fantastic, especially since it is a Pyro build!  May I ask what you are working on now?  

I am pretty certain that DaveK has told you about our building the Imai Chebec at the same time, although, I am much slower than he is and hopefully not dragging him down.  He is doing an amazing job as usual.

If you see anything that could make this build better please let me know.

Thanks again,

Steve

       

 

 

  • Member since
    March 2006
Posted by TD4438 on Monday, December 16, 2013 2:50 AM

I can't believe that's plastic!

  • Member since
    July 2010
  • From: Tempe AZ
Posted by docidle on Tuesday, December 17, 2013 12:28 PM

Thanks TD, I have had issues at shows and competitions with people swearing it is wood but then, that "is" the look I was trying to create.

Steve

       

 

 

  • Member since
    July 2010
  • From: Tempe AZ
Posted by docidle on Wednesday, December 18, 2013 6:23 PM

Some new pictures where you can actually see the detail.

Enjoy,

Steve

       

 

 

  • Member since
    June 2012
Posted by arnie60 on Thursday, December 19, 2013 1:31 AM

Stunning work. I am really enjoying following this build. As a moment of possible humor, having spent many years in the remodeling business, my first thought for that cannon in the shot from the stern made me think  whay did he put in a concrete anchor bolt? Really though, impressive work. Thanks for sharing it.

  • Member since
    July 2010
  • From: Tempe AZ
Posted by docidle on Thursday, December 19, 2013 7:51 PM

Thanks Arnie and the humor is well placed.  I agree, the cannon look way over scale, especially if you look at the Revell Santa Maria cannon.  Reminds me of the difference between a 4 pounder and a 36 pounder, or, a concrete anchor bolt!

Steve

       

 

 

  • Member since
    July 2010
  • From: Tempe AZ
Posted by docidle on Friday, December 20, 2013 8:57 PM

Working on anchor lines.  To secure the line I used a 50/50 solution of Elmer's glue and water.

Steve

 

 

       

 

 

  • Member since
    December 2002
  • From: Greenville,Michigan
Posted by millard on Saturday, December 21, 2013 8:14 PM

Steve

 The Roman Merchant ship was a fun build. I too am a slow builder so I don'turn out a lot of moels in a year.Presently I'm working on two ship's and a motorcycle. I'm doing the Heller kit "The Conquistador" and Heller's "La Reale De France".I just finished sanding and priming the hull on the Conquistador. I'm laying in a real wood deck plank by plank. I'm using Artwox deck for wooden ships. I also replaced the deck grating. Heller's deck's and grating on this kit need lots of help. I'm also going to turn new yards.

  The La Reale is also in the primer stage.Looking through the parts  their's a ton of sanding on this kit. Seems like there's 5000 ejector pin marks.I'll keep in touch.

Rod

  • Member since
    March 2012
  • From: Marysville, WA
Posted by David_K on Sunday, December 22, 2013 12:53 PM

Rod, I also have the La Reale De France...I'd love to hear more about your impression of it....I'm already looking ahead to my next build, and the Reale is a possible choice...the Chebec is coming along nicely!  I'm going to rig the cannons with a breaching rope, since yours look so good!

Anyway, sorry to hijack the thread! :)

Looking good, Steve!

        _~
     _~ )_)_~
     )_))_))_)
     _!__!__!_         
     (_D_P_K_)
   ~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    ~~~~~~~~~~~

Current Project:  Imai/ERTL Spanish Galleon #2

Recently Finished: Revell 1/96 Cutty Sark

Next Up:  ???

 

  • Member since
    May 2003
  • From: Greenville, NC
Posted by jtilley on Monday, December 23, 2013 12:27 PM

I have a 1/75 Reale in my stash.  In my opinion it's a beautiful kit - arguably Heller's best ship.  The detail is spectacular and (unlike certain other Heller kits I could name) it appears to be quite accurate.

Two quibbles - both pretty small.  One - the handles on the oars.  Heller represented them as hefty ridges along the oar looms.  In reality those ridges were long strips of wood nailed to the oarloom with wood spacers under them.  The oarsman couldn't get his hands around the loom itself; he grabbed the handle.  Shaving off the handle and making a genuine handle out of styrene or wood would be easy - once.  But count those oars....

My other quibble concerns the flags.  On feature of this ship type was the huge, bright red banners with hundreds of gold fleurs de lis stitched into them.  Heller made a brave effort to reproduce the effect with printed paper, but I have my doubts about how the finished products would look.  (Awfully heavy, I imagine.)  But if you're thinking about making your own flags, count those fleurs de lis....

Otherwise it is, in my opinion, a great kit.  Someday I hope to have the time to do it justice.

Youth, talent, hard work, and enthusiasm are no match for old age and treachery.

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