Converting the 1/96 Cutty Sark into the Glory of the Seas

That is a very nice display idea

That book is a plethora of hull designs and diagrams.  I've read it cover to cover.  It has been a superb aid to me for years.  No true clipper modelers library can be complete without it.

Rob

Rob,

I received Chappelle's The Search for Speed Under Sail for Father's Day.  The is a profile of the American clipper ship named Witch of the Waves or Witch of the Seas that seems to closely resembel the Sea Witch.  I immediately thought of you, and thought that converting the Lindberg/Aurora kit could add to your collection.

Bill

This hull could be modified.....I'm not sure of its deadrise...but the Great Republic had a shallow deadrise as well.  The cutwater would need to be  modified I'm sure(Been there done that).  If I had one of these Heller kits...I'd examine it further for such a modification.

Rob

Mike,

Thanks!  I appreciate your photos.  That Cutty Sark looks terrific!  Anyway, as you can see, there is heavy iron plate detail that would need to be sanded down, and there is a midships structure that would have to be surgically removed.  The hull bottom i s also fairly flat, and I am not sure that it would match any clipper, but I will leave that to Rob to evaluate.  It might be a positive step in modeling the Great Republic, but, again, you would have to modify the hull.

Bill

Thanks Mike.  Wow..it is much larger then the Revell kit.

I hope Bill doesn't mind if I post these two pictures I just took on my little balcony. It should give you the general idea.

Yeah..send pics if you have them.....cool.  I'll check out the Preussen from Heller in 1/150.

Thanks.....

Rob,

Not yet. I have to finish the Revell Mayflower for my oldest grandson, and the Potosi for my son.  But, I will check out those plans sometime over the next two weeks.

I have a recommendation for you.  Check out the hull of the Heller Preussen or Cap Horn.  Although the kit is of a windjammer, and the hull has iron plate details, a little sanding and minor surgery might give you a usable hull for a clipper conversion. The kit is in 1/150, but the hull is slightly larger than that of the 1/96 Cutty Sark. I will be happy to send you pictures if you would like them.

Bill

Hey Bill...did you ever get over to check out those plans?  My copy of the Great Republic plans arrived the other day and they are 3/32"=1', or 1/128.  Making the hull around 36" long.  Pondering between a solid hull or a POB...Think I'll built it POB style.  Keeping the weight down.

From my study, it looks like the plans depict the shotened rebuilt masts/yards and rigging after the fire, and the deck plan is more to the likes of her before the fire.  Capt. Palmer who had her refloated and rebuilt eliminated the weather or spar deck and kept her a three decker.  Creating gunnals...where in the original McKay design there was none...but oak railing around the entire perimeter. He origanally had 4 decks with no forcastle or poop decks.

Personally, I love the plans and plan on scratch building the entire vessel.

But first to finish the Glory of the Seas.

Rob

Rob,

Your comment, " . . . tired old Cutty Sark . . ." is exactly the comment I have been using when petitioning the various model manufacturers for more sailing ship kits.  Several years ago, Airfix responded to one of my requests by saying that they had just released the HMS Endeavor.  My response was that I already had that kit, and that the manufacturers need to realize that they cannot keep expecting sailing ship modelers to purchase the same, tired old products.  I then asked about just how many HMS Victory's, Cutty Sarks, Bounty's and Constitutions each of us was supposed to buy.  I concluded by saying that they have to offer new kits to see any increase in sales of sailing ship kits.

I am currently finishing the old Heller Cap Horn for my son.  I know that that ship never existed, but the kit is based heavily on their five-masted Flying P-Liner Preussen, indeed, most of the parts are interchangeable, including the hull. The only real differences between the two kits is that the Preussen is ship-rigged; the Cap Horn kit is barque rigged.  Historically, a near sister or the Preussen was built as a five masted barque, the Petosi.  That ship shared a very similar hull to the Preussen, and it also had a similar deck arrangement. It is a relatively easy conversion. And, it builds into an attractive model.

Bill

Indeed.  Telling an historic event that actually occured with a vessel is to me more telling of the vessel then of a model represtitive of when she first left the builders yard.  Scars of a cape horn struggle, or a deruddering at sea and a susiquent repair(Like my CS diorama) action that was historicaly accurate but done with some artistic license.

Research is your best friend...well.. along with some good modeling skills.

Probably why I love doing these clipper mods.  There is so much more to represent then a tired static Cutty Sark.  No disrespect intended.

Research has revealed that many models of the Great Republic are mixing original and rebuilding after the fire details.  Especially with attention to the spar deck/bullwarks confusion...and the addition (after fire)of a mizzen skysail.  Far too many changes were made that get mingled.  I want to keep her as authentic to the original McKay depiction as possible.

Same thing for Glory of the Seas.  I chose to build her before her 1870's modifications...you have to pay attention. Nothing worse then a novice saying, that your model doesn't look like the ship you are representing...if the year is not clearified.

Same ship...just different details..can throw folks off.  Lucky for me, most folks don;t know the differences anyway.

Rob

Rob,

I would love to build a Constitution in her original configuration.  I would love to see her with that Hercules figurehead as she first appeared at Tripoli.  To do so, I believe that I would have to start with the newer Bluejacket kit since that one is closer to the period of interest. The various Revell kits depict her as she appeared (1) around 1924 (1/96), or (2) during Andrew Jackson's presidency in the 1830s (1/196).  It also might be interesting to show the Jackson figurehead with its head lopped off.

Bill

I couldn't be in more agreement.  The life of a vessel and subsiquent additions/exclusions can provide the builder with a varried pallet to replicate.

I'm choosing to build my ships in thier original configurations....I feel closer to the builder and somehow more represtitive of thier original conceived designs.

On the opposite side of the coin, I am in the progress of building a Constitution representing her during her low period..when she was a receiving ship.  It tells a story...almost dioramic like....then a simple display.

Rob

Rob,

I usually have a bias towards building my ship models in their original configurations. In my general opinion, that is usually when the original ships were their most beautiful. There are exceptions, of course, but that is my general rule. But, I plan on following your build log to see if I can duplicate your excellent work.

Those are very interesting photos! Having been stationed aboard ships during refit periods, they take me back to the clutter and the seeming chaos.

Bill

Bill...I'm wondering...what era are you going to model your glory after?  she was remodeled several times.  Personaly I modeled her after McKay's original design...however some have modeled her after her cabin boy house was added and after her hatch houses were added.

She had extensive mast remakes and rigging redos from her original design.

Her is an image of her poob deck cabin during her cannary refit...notice the lack of aft hold house that would be just forward of her main poop cabin.  No boat davits or skids either.

Then notice the second image with the boy on the cabin boy cabin...with the boats stowed on top.  All after additions to McKays design and removed for her conversion to a cannary.

Will do!  And, I plan on extending the trip to visit Bluejacket as well.  I will let you know all about it.

Bill

Lucky you.....if you can..take a peek at their plans if you can and let me know what you think?

Rob

Rob,

A.J. Fisher has a solid reputation for excellence.  I had the pleasure of visiting their store in Massachusetts last summer, and I plan to visit them again in about a month. Their fittings are great! I am looking forward to seeing these ships.

Bill

Oh Bill...I forgot to tell you that http://www.ajfisher.com/hulls.htm has plans for Young America, Staghound, St Paul, Sovereign Of The Seas, Lightning, Great Republic, Flying Cloud.  I cannot vouch for their detail...but for the price I might give it a whirl.  I'm sure the plans are not that detailed, but I can work with ahything. I've heard good things about this outfit.

Rob

My pleasure.  I have seen but have not built any of the Bluejacket kits.  Years ago I made the diversion from POF, POB to solid hull ships. ( I actually made a 6ft POF hull of the Cutty Sark 30 years ago)   I have a pretty nice wood shop..so I can cut nearly anything I want and carve the hulls.  Lately, though I have been on this transforming gig with 1/96 scale models...namely because of the size is large, but not so large you have no place to display it.  Pre-carved hulls of the Sovereign Of the Seas clipper can be found at 31" at http://www.ajfisher.com/hulls.htm.  For $155....which I might be tempted to go after.

Rob(I'm a lazy modeler... so If I can skip steps and achieve my goals...so be it)

Rob,

I saw your post on the Airfix site. I really appreciate it!  By the way, have you seen or built the Bluejacket clipper ships?  I have the Flying Cloud and the Young American.  They have a different on in 1/96 scale, but the name escapes me.  Also, Model Shipways used to produce the Flying Fish as a solid hull kit but changed it to a plank-on-bulkhead kit. I'm sure you knew of these, but the do extend the range of available clippers in your chosen scale (except Young American).

Bill

Indeed..this place is a plethora of knowledge for the ship modeler.  I use every media available...so many purist modelers are critical of my use of plastic hulls...saying my builds are not really scratch.  Well that may be true(from a certain point of view).  However I'm not a purist..I'm a replicator...and that defined means, *Use what you got to get the job done*.  Yes the Glory of the Seas spent lots of time in San Francisco and I can imagine her attraction for you.  She was McKay's last clipper...she had a long varried life...and she ended it up in my neck of the woods....so..there you go..no better motivation to model her.

I'll share any and all my resourses with you if you need the assistance.

Rob,

We are all here to learn from other modelers. I have learned from you, and I hope to emulate your Glory of the Seas before tackling the modifications necessary to turn the Revell Stag Hound into a worthy replication. Also, being from the San Francisco area, I have an interest in Glory of the Seas.

I have built model ships since 1960, but I learn from most of the posts here in FSM. I hope I never stop learning!

Bill

I appreciate that Bill.  Through my evolution of clipper builds..I have come to the stage that I have.  Building the vessel I want via re-engineering of other kits..namely the 1/96 scale Revell Cutty Sark hull.  A great start point..IMHV.  However if I were to build a version of the Great Republic in the same scale of 1/96...it would have to be twice as large.......

But each vessel I build based on that scale and hull...it becomes rescaled.

I'm glad you are desiring to build from other models that can be modified.

Rob

My mistake . . . I have a book called The Line of Battle that looks exactly like the Seafarers series. In fact, it was stashed within the Seafarers and I simply read the titles from the books on the shelf.  It is actually published by the Naval Institute Press as part of the Conway's History of the Ship series.  I sincerely apologise.

Concerning the Scientific clippers, you are absolutely correct in saying that they are not that well detailed.  However, each is large enough for detailing. I see them as a challenge to turn them into serious models.  Scientific has been out of business for years, but these ships can be easily found and are quite affordable on eBay.  I mentioned them because of your interest in clipper ships.

Bill

I only built one Scientific model of the Cutty Sark eons ago and it was not that detailed..nor did the hull come completely ready.  You had to do some carving and actually scratch build some items if you wanted it to be accurate.  I'm not sure of their quality today...I'm hopeful they have improved.

Your list has thrown me off...I don't recall there being a *Line of Battle* voluum in the series and no on-line search has revealed such a voluum.  There are 22 in the series and I have all of them with the axception of having 2 Atlantic Crossing,Fighting Sail and Frigates.  Plus 3 of Pacific Navigators.  I'm over zelous I guess.

Rob

Rob,

The titles are:

1. The Ancient Mariners

2. The Venetians

3. The Vikings

4. The Explorers

5. The Spanish Main

6. The Armada

7. The Altantic Crossing

8. The Pacific Navigators

9. The Northwest Passage

10. The Pirates

11. The East Indiamen

12. Fighting Sail

13. The Men-of-War

14. The Line of Battle

15. The Frigates

16. The Whalers

17. The Clipper Ships

18. The Windjammers

19. The Dreadnoughts

20. The U-Boats

21. The Great Liners

22. The Luxury Yachts

23. The Racing Yachts

This is the list.  If there are others, I don't know of them. These were sold to me as the complete set.  I hope that it helps!

By the way, what are your opinions of the old Scientific Models clippers?

Bill

I was missing a few and would you know it, of all places(Arizona) I found the Vikings...one I was missing.  I believe I have them all and probably a couple repeats as well.  By the way could you do me a favor and list the voluums you have?  Just a check to see if I still need to add to my collection.  I first began collecting them around 1979 when they first came out..but I can not for the life of me remember the titles of the entire collection.

The Pirates was the first.  I hope my graqndkids will enjoy reading my collection as well...such rich Maritime history.

Rob(thanks)

I'm rebuilding my library.  I also had an extensive library but it was destroyed in a flood several years ago.  I have that Time/Life Seafaring series; I bought the entire set for $35.00 at a local used book store.  My grandsons enjoy reading them.