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Heller Soleil Royal (WIP)

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  • Member since
    September 2012
Posted by GMorrison on Wednesday, February 10, 2016 3:34 PM

David_K

Thanks for the input, fellas!

Never heard of Cuticle Nippers, George (aka George C Scott, aka Gmorrison!)....I'm sure my wife must have some around the house...hmmm....lol

A quick google search shows that they look similar to a fine-pointed scissor/sidecutter...might just have to pick up a pair.  I've been using a Fiskars MicroTip little scissor and it works pretty well, but I'm all for experimenting with an upgrade.  Thanks for the tip.

Sure. I also have those scissors, or ones like them. They are indispensible. The cuticle nippers are side cutters, they do a good job of chopping hard things, in particular the little stub of line left when you've seized or served a line, glued it, and then cut the thread off with scissors as closely as you can to the knot. They don't cut soft thread very well.

 

Excellent work there.

 Modeling is an excuse to buy books.

 

  • Member since
    July 2013
Posted by steve5 on Wednesday, February 10, 2016 8:38 PM

dave can you tell me what parts 229 , 230 ,are for , the imai insructions say to put them on the quarter deck . but blowed if I know what they do, they are on page 15.

 

  • Member since
    March 2012
  • From: Marysville, WA
Posted by David_K on Thursday, February 11, 2016 8:14 AM

Steve-

229 and 230 are spare spars...basically, just extra wood for the ship (mast/yard parts, other structural wood, etc.)....those #s are part of larger group meant to be bundled and stacked on deck, near the boats.

Honestly, I painted mine, got them arranged on deck in various ways, and kinda felt like I didn't want them there.  Now they live in the parts box until I either a) convince myself to put them on the deck anyway; or b) throw them out.

Dave

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Current Project:  Imai/ERTL Spanish Galleon #2

Recently Finished: Revell 1/96 Cutty Sark

Next Up:  ???

 

  • Member since
    July 2013
Posted by steve5 on Thursday, February 11, 2016 1:35 PM

thank's dave . I kinda feel the same , can't see them adding much to the finished product , might be able to use them on another project .

 

  • Member since
    July 2010
  • From: Tempe AZ
Posted by docidle on Thursday, February 11, 2016 10:02 PM

Beautiful work on the bowsprit bud. Are you using the masts and spars from the kit or are you replacing them with wood?

Regarding the ejection marks, I try and get rid of them but either filling with Green putty or a combination of sheet styrene punched to size and then some putty. Bit with the beautiful work you do, the majority of people checking out this beauty, will never notice.

Steve

A non sequitur, I need to email you and find out what you thought of the new Star Wars movie.

       

 

 

  • Member since
    March 2012
  • From: Marysville, WA
Posted by David_K on Friday, February 12, 2016 5:47 PM

Thanks, Brochacho!

I've been gambling with the kit-supplied spars, so far the lower stuff is holding up just fine, but I'm nervous about the integrity of some of those t-gallant mast parts...

You and Rob both have some methods for alleviating the sinkholes and pinmarks that sound pretty easy to tackle...thanks, guys!  I'll keep them in mind, and I hope others will, too. :)

Star Wars?  Dude.  I could go on for awhile...but for the sake of brevity here, one word:

Amazing.

Dave

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     (_D_P_K_)
   ~~~~~~~~~~~~~
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Current Project:  Imai/ERTL Spanish Galleon #2

Recently Finished: Revell 1/96 Cutty Sark

Next Up:  ???

 

  • Member since
    March 2012
  • From: Marysville, WA
Posted by David_K on Friday, February 12, 2016 5:58 PM

I just discovered a mistake I made with this build, and thought I would share it here, for any who follow and want to keep an eye out for it.  (bear in mind that most people might have noticed this right off the bat, but I feel lucky that I caught in in the nick of time)....

I was reading ahead in the plans and referencing Anderson regarding some stay tackles, and noticed that the 3 aftmost lower deadeyes on the fore and main channels are meant for backstays, and thus require smaller diameter deadeyes.

Earlier in the project, I attached the channels and simply attached a deadeye of the size for that particular masts shroud.  Very glad that I didn't run 3 extra shrouds on each mast before I realized and had to remove them later, when it could be much more inconvenient!

Anyway, just a heads up...8 shrouds foremast, 9 shrouds mainmast.  (my new mantra)

Also, as a side note, I was further fortunate that the snafu with Ages of Sail left me with extra lower deadeye strops, now I have enough to fix the issue withough having to wait another month and a half to get replacements of the correct size!  Bonus!

One more also, I've stropped the new deadeyes with the strops before blackening them, and I'll just toss the whole enchilada into the blacken it solution and see if it has any effect on the wood.  If not, that's a good thing, because deforming the strops to fit them over the deadeyes AFTER blackening usually loosens a good deal of the coating and it can flake off.

Thanks for reading!
Dave

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     )_))_))_)
     _!__!__!_         
     (_D_P_K_)
   ~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    ~~~~~~~~~~~

Current Project:  Imai/ERTL Spanish Galleon #2

Recently Finished: Revell 1/96 Cutty Sark

Next Up:  ???

 

  • Member since
    July 2010
  • From: Tempe AZ
Posted by docidle on Wednesday, February 17, 2016 10:21 PM

Dave,

Thanks for the heads up! That is one of those things that experience teaches  and a good eye for detail. 

I also want to thank you for the strop and deadeye idea. I just was working on the deadeyes, which will be hearts instead of the kit blocks/deadeyes by the way. And was experimenting with wire to strop the lower deadeyes. I finally got it to work and after reading your post, just dipped the block and wire into the Blacken' It. Worked like a charm.

I also used Prof T's suggestion and sprayed the whole thing with a dull coat so that the Blacken' It won't rub off. I had an issue with the anchors with it rubbing off.

Anyway, thanks again bud,

Steve

       

 

 

  • Member since
    July 2010
  • From: Tempe AZ
Posted by docidle on Wednesday, February 17, 2016 10:21 PM

Dave,

Thanks for the heads up! That is one of those things that experience teaches  and a good eye for detail. 

I also want to thank you for the strop and deadeye idea. I was just working on the Catalan Ship's deadeyes today, which will be hearts instead of the kit blocks/deadeyes by the way. And was experimenting with wire to strop the lower deadeyes instead of line and I finally got it to work and after reading your post, just dipped the block and wire into the Blacken' It. Worked like a charm.

I also used Prof T's suggestion and sprayed the whole thing with a dull coat so that the Blacken' It won't rub off. I had an issue with the anchors with it rubbing off.

Anyway, thanks again bud,

Steve

       

 

 

  • Member since
    March 2012
  • From: Marysville, WA
Posted by David_K on Thursday, February 18, 2016 5:28 PM

You bet, Steve!  That's what these forums are for, IMHO...sharing of ideas, techniques, and to be able to give a heads-up to fellow builders!

Yeah, the Blacken-It dip had no effect I could detect on the wood...but I made sure to dry them pretty well when I took them back out....but now the strops look great, no flaking!

Also was able to get those deadeyes replaced with the correct, smaller backstay deadeyes!

I also got the ratlines done on the sprit topmast shrouds (took less than an hour, not bad after being away from rigging for over a year!)...

I've also gotten the mainstay assembled with blocks and the elaborate tackle that splits around the foremast, and then through the fore railing and ending with a triple block which I'll soon attach with a lanyard.  First, though, I am working today on the forestay (much less complicated, but I still have to identify the 11 blocks that are called out, and see how many of them are being used by me...I'm guessing 5 or 7)...

I have a couple pics, but I'll post them in a batch when I get the foremast in, and probably just before I run the fore shrouds.

Thanks!

Dave

P.S.- Did anyone hear about the 600 year old Cog (Hanseatic Kogge) they found in a river in Europe?  They just pulled it out almost in one piece!  Very sweet find!

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/medieval-shipwreck-hauled-from-the-deep/ar-BBpEClW?li=BBnbfcL

 

 

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     _!__!__!_         
     (_D_P_K_)
   ~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    ~~~~~~~~~~~

Current Project:  Imai/ERTL Spanish Galleon #2

Recently Finished: Revell 1/96 Cutty Sark

Next Up:  ???

 

  • Member since
    March 2012
  • From: Marysville, WA
Posted by David_K on Sunday, February 21, 2016 9:30 AM

Quick Heads-Up:

John from Scaledecks.com emailed me last night to say that they have finished the wooden decks for the Heller Soleil Royal kit.

It's a shame that they weren't ready 6 months ago, or I would have totally bought a set.

Steve5 is obviously beyond deck work by now, and I've just seen a cryptic post on KPnuts SR thread saying that he's no longer posting on the forum (or something?)...too bad, I was hoping to see some more progress, and I thought it would be cool to see someone use the scaledecks wooden set for the SR.

Oh, well, I guess I'll just have to wait until I get into the Heller Victory, or the big Constitution or Cuttty Sark to try out their products.

Dave

        _~
     _~ )_)_~
     )_))_))_)
     _!__!__!_         
     (_D_P_K_)
   ~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    ~~~~~~~~~~~

Current Project:  Imai/ERTL Spanish Galleon #2

Recently Finished: Revell 1/96 Cutty Sark

Next Up:  ???

 

  • Member since
    September 2012
Posted by GMorrison on Sunday, February 21, 2016 11:34 PM

Two comments.

First, I don't find wood deck parts useful for me. I can lay a deck with strip wood that is so much better than the several laser cut ones I've tried that I have stopped using them. They are good, but a really serious modeler gets better results looking at drawings, thinking it through and laying down the pattern. Because it all falls into place.

It takes me much much longer, weeks as opposed to days, but isn't that the usual?

Second, all of the best for that product. In particular it solves the USS Constitution seam problem, and enhances the results for most modelers.

Dave I finally understood really big ships when I set about planking my Victory. The seams follow the positions of the deck beams, which follow the ribs/ frames, which in turn dictated where the gun ports were in between. Plank your Soleil weather deck by hand.

 Modeling is an excuse to buy books.

 

  • Member since
    December 2012
Posted by rwiederrich on Monday, February 22, 2016 8:35 AM

Yes..I read that too about KPnuts.......what's up I wonder...I was enjoying his log.

 

Rob

  • Member since
    July 2013
Posted by steve5 on Monday, February 22, 2016 9:19 PM

dave a quick question , I'm still a way off of starting my ratlines , but could you give me an idea of how far apart , they are supposed to be please , I've worked out about roughly 5 mm . does that sound about right , I want to draw up a pattern behind it to follow .thank's .............. steve

 

  • Member since
    September 2012
Posted by GMorrison on Monday, February 22, 2016 10:05 PM

rwiederrich

Yes..I read that too about KPnuts.......what's up I wonder...I was enjoying his log.

 

Rob

 

He became very angry with me over a post he put up just ripping into Heller for bad customer service. You can find it easily.

I wish he was back, as well.

 Modeling is an excuse to buy books.

 

  • Member since
    July 2013
Posted by steve5 on Monday, February 22, 2016 11:13 PM

I was also enjoying kpnuts thread ., hope he reconsiders .

 

  • Member since
    March 2012
  • From: Marysville, WA
Posted by David_K on Tuesday, February 23, 2016 8:35 AM

Hey Steve-

Let me start by saying that if you're looking for strict adherence to scale, I may not be the best person to ask!  I think it's pretty well-known that I don't generally bind myself to 100% accuracy....I'd estimate my ambition to be more like 60%  :)

Anyway, that said, it's pretty easy to calculate scale for a 1/100 model.  I *think* ratlines were spaced about 18 inches apart (though someone else may be better informed than I)...so at 100th scale, you're looking at .18" (18 divided by 100)...for me, I would round that up to .2, or 1/5th of an inch, and from there I would aim for just under 1/4"....Boom!  That's what I'll be doing, and I won't lose any sleep over it.  I think at 5mm, you're pretty darn close to right on.

Also, you could check the *ratline loom* or whatever that weaving contraption is that they include in the box, and see what they spacing is for the ratlines on it?  Not that I would expect it to be 100% accurate, either.  But now I'm interested, so I'll probably check through Anderson and Mondfeld's books this afternoon and see if 18" is correct or not.  Hope that helps you somewhat?

Also, it's worth mentioning that I got a reminder post from Facebook yesterday that it was 4 years ago that I got my first ship model in the post from Amazon, it was a Revell Bonhomme Richard.  Seems funny to think it's only been 4 years since I built my first ship...think I've done 7 or 8 ships since then, and it seems like a lot more time has passed.

Also, I'll have a progress update soon, I've gotten the mainstay and forestay assembled, and now I'm working on foremast shrouds and deadeyes...got a neat little jig made up to keep the deadeyes spaced, I'll post some pics soon.

Thanks!
DavidK

 

 

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     _~ )_)_~
     )_))_))_)
     _!__!__!_         
     (_D_P_K_)
   ~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    ~~~~~~~~~~~

Current Project:  Imai/ERTL Spanish Galleon #2

Recently Finished: Revell 1/96 Cutty Sark

Next Up:  ???

 

  • Member since
    March 2012
  • From: Marysville, WA
Posted by David_K on Friday, February 26, 2016 8:26 PM

Hi all-

Here's a bunch of pics, I guess I've been sandbagging a little bit :)

First, and I'm not sure if I already posted the sprit topmast shrouds AFTER the ratlines were on, so here it is:

Next is a couple pics of the deadeye jig I made....basically, two pieces of paper clip, bent at right angles and of a certain length to help keep the deadeyes in the correct orientation (it kinda worked, but more on that later)

This next series of pics shows how I used the jigs the make uniform spacing for the deadeyes...pretty self-explanatory, but I'll be happy to elaborate if anyone has questions.

You can see how the first four looked pretty good...but moving aft from there (and this is a problem I've faced before) as I tighten the lanyards the shrouds in the front would begin to slacken...so then I would go back and tighten those shrouds, and then the OTHER ONES would slacken...it became an exercise in madness!

I finally found a balance between shroud tension and deadeye alignment that I can live with, but I don't love it.

I tried to alleviate the problem by attaching a temporary forestay line to keep the mast from pulling back and allowing the shrouds to slacken, but it didn't work as well as I'd hoped.  I think I need to work on keeping shroud length super-even when I install the upper deadeyes...I've been trying very hard to find a specific amount of tension and keep it consistent across the channel, but it's very possible that my judgment is off.  I'm hoping that when I get to the Mainmast shrouds, I'll do better. Also, I know it's obvious the deadeyes are too big...my bad!

Here's a shot of the mainstay after I got it pre-assembled (that was a fun bit to set up, I always like the little pre-rigging assemblies!)

And here's the mainstay block and lanyard, though the rest of the mainstay is just lying across the deck until the Mainmast goes in.

Next up for me is a bunch of ratlines for the foremast, then the forestay goes on and some sprit rigging...

Thanks for watching!

David

 

        _~
     _~ )_)_~
     )_))_))_)
     _!__!__!_         
     (_D_P_K_)
   ~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    ~~~~~~~~~~~

Current Project:  Imai/ERTL Spanish Galleon #2

Recently Finished: Revell 1/96 Cutty Sark

Next Up:  ???

 

  • Member since
    September 2012
Posted by GMorrison on Friday, February 26, 2016 11:03 PM

This is really nice work, it can't be faulted. There's up and down across the top deadeyes, I find that entirely realistic. It's hard to find very old ship photos so it's not easy to know, but the fact is that the system is a whole row of individual tensioners, and when they get adjusted, things change alignment. I personally think a perfectly aligned row of deadeyes defies logic and looks more like a drawing than a real ship.

 

 Modeling is an excuse to buy books.

 

  • Member since
    July 2014
  • From: Franklin Wi
Posted by Bakster on Friday, February 26, 2016 11:17 PM

Gorgeous work, Dave. Nicely documented procedure too.

  • Member since
    March 2014
Posted by kpnuts on Saturday, February 27, 2016 2:45 AM

Superb.

  • Member since
    December 2010
  • From: Salem, Oregon
Posted by 1943Mike on Saturday, February 27, 2016 10:02 AM

Wonderful work! I'm in awe.

GMorrison said: "There's up and down across the top deadeyes, I find that entirely realistic. It's hard to find very old ship photos so it's not easy to know, but the fact is that the system is a whole row of individual tensioners, and when they get adjusted, things change alignment. I personally think a perfectly aligned row of deadeyes defies logic and looks more like a drawing than a real ship"

+1

Mike

Mike

"Le temps est un grand maître, mais malheureusement, il tue tous ses élèves."

Hector Berlioz

  • Member since
    March 2012
  • From: Marysville, WA
Posted by David_K on Saturday, February 27, 2016 1:20 PM

Thanks, everyone!

I agree that in reality the deadeyes on a ship would probably have some variation as things get settled and readjusted...until I went back and made my readjustements, the whole thing looked WAY out of whack...I'm glad I finally got it to a reasonable state.  One thing to mention is that I have often heard that it's important to *temporarily* tie off rigging lines until other, countering lines have been installed, so that one keeps the ability to make adjustments after the fact....I've never really done too much of that, and this time I definitely learned the lesson of keeping things adjustable...it gets a little out of hand, having a dozen or more alligator clips holding all the lanyards in place temporarily while making slight adjustments, but it pays in the long run.

I'll offer some more progress pics after the foremast ratlines are done, and after I get the forestay installed.

Thanks!

Dave

 

        _~
     _~ )_)_~
     )_))_))_)
     _!__!__!_         
     (_D_P_K_)
   ~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    ~~~~~~~~~~~

Current Project:  Imai/ERTL Spanish Galleon #2

Recently Finished: Revell 1/96 Cutty Sark

Next Up:  ???

 

  • Member since
    December 2012
Posted by rwiederrich on Saturday, February 27, 2016 1:46 PM

Fine work David..really fine.

Several things If I may?

I never understood why modelers use tan line for the seizing/landyards for the deadeyes and for the ratlines.  Historically they were just as vulnerable to weather as the shrouds/backstays and were blackened with tar.  Hense the term Tarbelly to those who clumb over newly tared line.  I'm not trying to be critical with these observations.  I just don't understand the practice.

Other then that..beautiful build bro.

Rob

  • Member since
    March 2012
  • From: Marysville, WA
Posted by David_K on Sunday, February 28, 2016 10:03 AM

Hi Rob!

You make a good point.  Lanyards and Ratlines would likely be made of a tarred rope, for the reasons you mentioned.  The only *real* sailing ships I've been aboard (the Lady Washington and the Hawaiian Chieftain) both had black rope for the shrouds, ratlines and lanyards...not sure if it was tarred, but it was black, anyway.

But I do wonder if it's possible the lanyards would be untreated so they could move more freely through the deadeyes during during adjustments?  Just brainstorming...

I've tied shrouds in both black line and dark brown, and I've tied ratlines in both colors, too...I guess I just liked the aesthetic effect of the contrasting colors, which is probably why I am using the colors as such on the Soleil Royal...though the ratlines are going to be more of a medium brown against the dark brown of the shrouds, the lanyards are, as you see, a tan color...It's simply my preference, and I think it adds a certain textural element.

Just artistic license, I suppose....and I obviously can't speak for anyone else on their choice of line color, but doing a quick google search shows that the combinations definitely don't favor one rigging line color scheme over the other...whoa, I just saw a sweet-looking wooden Victory with cream colored line for the shrouds, ratlines, and lanyards...

Thanks!

Dave

        _~
     _~ )_)_~
     )_))_))_)
     _!__!__!_         
     (_D_P_K_)
   ~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    ~~~~~~~~~~~

Current Project:  Imai/ERTL Spanish Galleon #2

Recently Finished: Revell 1/96 Cutty Sark

Next Up:  ???

 

  • Member since
    September 2012
Posted by GMorrison on Sunday, February 28, 2016 11:05 AM

On the current restoration of the HMS Victory, the deadeyes are black, the shrouds are black and the lanyards are tan-grey. They also are loosely wrapped around the base of the shroud in a big loose bundle that pretty much obscures any aligment of the top row of deadeyes.

On the current retoration of the USS Constitution, everything is black.

I tend to agree that it makes sense to have things stand out, and I'm not sure how the landyards would have worked if they were actually tarred, but hey it's the Navy, right?

Plenty of people around to apply to problems.

 Modeling is an excuse to buy books.

 

  • Member since
    December 2010
  • From: Salem, Oregon
Posted by 1943Mike on Sunday, February 28, 2016 12:14 PM

To GMorrison, Dave, and Rob:

I must believe there've been many discussions about whether or not ratlines (and running rigging) were or were not tarred. I just found this discussion which, IMHO, sheds a little light on the subject. It's not the definitive discussion on the topic, but interesting nontheless.

http://modelshipworld.com/index.php/topic/7561-ratlinestarred-or-not/

Here are some pictures of HMS Victory's lanyards and ratlines. Of course modern day re-rigging of a ship does not necessarily show how she would have looked in service. I just post these links to bolster Dave's position on artisic license. 

http://www.alamy.com/stock-photo-portsmouth-historic-dockyard-uk-02-april-2013-close-up-on-portholes-73744134.html

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/11908365/Restored-HMS-Victory-raises-eyebrows-with-new-pink-shade.html

Just noticed CapnMac82's thread on USS Constitution. Ratlines are black.

Mike

Mike

"Le temps est un grand maître, mais malheureusement, il tue tous ses élèves."

Hector Berlioz

  • Member since
    July 2013
Posted by steve5 on Sunday, February 28, 2016 9:29 PM

really beautiful work dave , as alway's ,I've given up trying to copy your work , [ no hope lol ] but I'm happy with what I'm doing . I like that idea of your's with the paper clip's . got to give that a go..........steve

 

  • Member since
    December 2012
Posted by rwiederrich on Monday, February 29, 2016 8:14 AM

I for one can appreciate artistic license. 

Great job everyone.....

 

Rob

  • Member since
    December 2012
Posted by rwiederrich on Monday, February 29, 2016 9:32 AM

 

 

Onward......Bow Down

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