Heller Soleil Royal (WIP)

Great work Dave, I love to see 3 dimensional art.

Amazing work Dave, and that Syren line looks great - much better than the stuff I buy from OcCre. Have you considered serving the shrouds and stays?

I can't see if your hull is fully assembled, but if it is, I'm curious about the fit of the bow area. I actually couldn't resist starting the Heller Victory, got the hull halves glued together and the bow area assembled (cutwater, hawse holes and head rails) and it was a real pain to get it all in place. Some parts were warped, I had to use lots of putty and the result is slightly asymmetrical, though you have to really look into it to notice. Was the SR any better?

Thanks for the pics Dave! Answers directly to my being a visual learner.

Really looking great!

Had no idea Syren cordage was waxed at all . It soaks up water just as if it was not and is still very flexible unlike the stuff I got from BlueJacket which is so heavy and stiff w/ wax it just about stands up all on its own.

By now, most of you know I don't require much encouragement before I'll blather at length.

I've gone ahead and taken a number of photos today...this might take a few minutes:

Here's a pic of all the guns I'm using for this model. I believe I already mentioned that gunports will be open on the port side, closed to starboard, so the two lower decks will not have guns built. All forward and rear-facing gunports will be open, and all guns visible on the upper decks will have breeching ropes as the only rigging, they will be attached through brass eyebolts on the inner bulwarks. Also, only the visible gun carriages have worthy detail painting and wash. Lower deck guns on the port side have only gotten attention to the ends of the barrels, since all that will be visible are the barrels. Here's a few of the gunports, I haven't yet installed the gunport tackle lines, but that'll be coming soon (concurrent with lower deck installation, presumably) Mockup I made of the intended method for chainplates...it's similar to the instructions, using rigging line as a *chainplate*, except I am replacing the plastic eyes from the kit with metal, so they will hold up better against shroud tension. This won't be the final revision, but the basic principle will be the same. The actual lower deadeye "stropping" (?) will be neater. Annealed wire around the deadeye, twisted and formed into small loop (becket?) below it, with a length of line connecting it to the eyebolt via a slipknot. Closeup of some Syren Line...this is the stuff I'll probably use for shrouds...I like the dark brown, as opposed to black. Still looks tarred, but adds to the effect of the rope being old. Here's the Tan Syren line...looks so good....this size will probably be the most commonly used running rigging on the model...I expect I'll be spending a pretty penny on several more packets of this! Couple pics of the upper deck, with eyebolts, kevels, bitts, and rails. Again, replaced the plastic eyebolts with blackened brass. Pic of the outer hull...hopefully this lighting shows a better representation of the different colors of the upper hull/lower hull/bootstripe...even in this pic, the colors aren't the same as in person...plus, the oil wash hasn't fully cured yet, giving a bit of a shine to the finish. Inner hull where the eyebolts are fitted...I drilled out the locator holes for the kit-supplied plastic eyebolts, then pushed blackened brass eyebolts through, trimmed off the ends with a flush cutter, then re-installed them with CA. Some of the holes were in the way of where the upper bulwark will sit, so I took the dremel and a file and carefully smoothed the edges back into correct square. Outer shot of the same area, showing how the eyebolts fit. Inner hull, hopefully showing more clearly the narrow strip that will be visible between the deck and the upper bulwark part...painted it red to match...hopefully it ends up looking okay when the parts are installed. Hull with deck dry-fitted...almost wish I'd gone even lighter with the deck basecoat color...but I think it turned out pretty good. Finally, a shot of the inner hull, where the bolts come up through the pedestals and keel, I use a square of thin plywood as a giant *washer* and to help spread the force around, and to help stabilize the hull...notice the copious amounts of epoxy! Okay, so there's a bunch of pics of stuff that I've been working on since January 1st, 2015...some of the pics might be redundant with things that have already been covered earlier in this thread, but maybe this single post has a nice chunk of info and detail that will be good for reference later, either by myself or others. Also, maybe it's a good time to mention that while this is a kit with a HUGE amount of parts and represents a significant commitment of time and dedication, so far I don't see it as "unfinishable", by any means...there are a lot of tedious steps, but nothing too daunting. But, I'm still at the very beginning, so maybe I'm in for some big surprises down the road! A wiser man than myself, who was a former employer, saw me struggling with an especially long and tedious project at work...he said to me, "Dave, you know how to eat an elephant, don't you? One bite at a time."

Well, if it's prewaxed, that is a nice bonus, and it would explain why the line has a bit more "stiffness" to it than typical (kit-included) line....I'm excited to try it out...the only use I'll have for line in the foreseeable future will be to run two lengths of it through holes in each gunport for rigging to the hull, but even that's a ways down the road, and it won't really give me much of a handle on how well it performs...I'm not concerned at all about the line, everyone seems to love it, and I can't wait to love it, too!  :)

Other reasons that I like to wax rigging line is that it seems as if waxed line has more tensile strength to it...if I'm tying a tight knot in plain, fine thread, it will often snap at much lower force than a waxed line would...anybody else notice this?  I notice it mostly on fine sewing thread, when I'm tying, or serving, or seizing, the stropped rope on a block.

Also, I find that the wax sometime helps keep a knot in place...unwaxed line has un-knotted on me before, or if I'm pull on an overhand knot that is unwaxed, it will slip off of itself...waxed line creates better friction, in my opinion.

Lastly, I like the way waxed line can be draped to a more natural hang than unwaxed...I'm noticing that many of my points here are mostly related to the very light lines, interestingly...heavier rigging line seems to take care of itself, more or less.

These reasons, and the ones John mentioned, are all good reasons for using waxed line...certainly if people have success using unwaxed, that's awesome!  I haven't been satisfied with my attempts...though I'll be happy to use the Syren Prewaxed stuff!

There is one drawback to waxed that I can think of right now...if I want to soak line in dilute glue, or water to help shape, drape, or coil it...sometimes if it has been waxed, the wax will resist allowing moisture into the line.  And the wax can almost make the line too stiff.  So there are times when unwaxed line is preferable, particularly when making coils for the deck, or fro pinrails.

Arnie, I'll spend a few minutes today, and perhaps take some additional pics of my current parts completion...I could get a few closeups of the deck, cannons, gunports, etc., if peopel are interested..there's not much in the way of compelling progress, but I'm happy to share.

Dave

There are two reasons for waxing rigging line. One - it lays down any fuzz. With Syren line, that doesn't seem to be a problem. Two - it prevents moisture, in the form of humidity changes, from making the line shrink and expand. Some fabrics are much more hygroscopic (i.e., susceptible to humidity changes) than others. Cotton seems to be the worst; a line that seems taut today may sag noticeably next week (or next season).

According to the Syren Ship Models website, the line in question is a mixture of cotton and linen. Linen isn't particularly hygroscopic; it's the preferred rigging material of lots of experienced modelers. Since the line does have cotton in it, it wouldn't be a bad idea to give it a light coat of wax. Apparently Mr. Passaro has, quite wisely, taken care of that for you.

Arnie,

I'm not flaming you, but I had checked with Chuck about whether the Syren line was waxed or not and he said that it is actually prewaxed. Definitely not like I usually wax line....... The stand up on its own kind, which I blame my time in the Navy for.

I agree full heartily that I love the Syren line and the way it behaves. I actually tried just wetting the line to drape over belaying pins as you suggested on my Nina build and it worked beautifully.

So Dave, I really think you'll like the Syren line once you get to using it.

Steve

First off, what little you've shown here, is superbly up to your usual artistic mastery with paints.

Second, Is that all we get to see? C'mon Dave, don't tease us like that. (LOL)

Third, I think waxing your lines is overrated. I guess it is a good insurance against dust [if you don't put it in a case]  and ultimately, deterioration, like 20 years from now. It can make it easier to work w/ "stiffened" waxed lines in some cases, and more difficult in others [tying knots]. I have a mixed bag of it on my Connie mainly because I bought a considerable amount of cordage from BlueJacket, which comes pre waxed. I like working w/ the un-waxed, un-shiny cordage from Syren much, much better and doubt that I will use waxed line in the future. [No doubt someone is going to flame me for preaching such blasphemy 

Anywho... looking forward to more posts from ya.

Dave,

The Syren line already comes waxed so you won't have to apply your own.

Steve

Just a couple of quick notes...

Firstly, and this is a heads-up for future builders of the SR, while I was test-fitting the upper deck and bulwarks on the hull, I noticed that there is a small area of the inner hull that is visible between the deck and where the upper bulwarks attach (maybe 1/8")...When I painted the hull, I didn't bother painting much in the way of the interior, assuming that the deck and bulwarks would meet up and there'd be no need for any coloring.  I realized during dry-fitting that the plain black plastic band would be visible above the deck and below where the bulwark is fitted (maybe I should attach a pic?)...anyway, I noticed it before I got any closer to assembly, and went ahead and painted that section of the inner hull red, so that it will match the bulwarks when they go on.

Hope that makes sense?

Secondly, I received my Syren rigging line, and my first impression is.....dang.  Pretty nice stuff!

It seems a little stiff, but I haven't done anything to it, like soaking or even handling it too much.  The smaller diameter stuff doesn't seem necessarily special, but as the size increases (the .025 is awesome-looking!) it really does seem just like small rope!

Did someone say that they don't even use wax on it?  It would seem a shame to coat it with wax and possibly fill in some of that wonderful spiral effect...

Anyway, of course there will be more of my experience with it as I reach some actual rigging steps, but it definitely LOOKS good!  Not sure if it's worth 4.50 a packet, but I'll find out soon enough!  

Progress update for SR:  I installed brass eyebolts in the hull for chainplate attachment points...Blackened them with Blacken-it, pushed them through pre-drilled holes, and snipped off the ends (inside the hull) before gluing them in place with CA.  Upper deck is weathered, and will be ready in a couple days.  Meanwhile, I'll be continuing to pre-assemble various upper decks, deck furniture, boats, etc., but it won't be long before the lower decks go in and the lower guns along with them.

**EDIT**

Added a pic showing the newly-attached eyebolts, and in the background, you can see the masked-off line where I painted the inner hull Insignia Red to match where the upper bulwarks will attach above the deck.

Thanks, guys!

It won't be super-critical to me (of course) to adhere strictly to scale for the rigging, but I do want it to be sorta close, and visually proportionate.  I'll definitely compare that table (thanks Arnie!) to the material I'm using and see how similar the sizes are....also, Anderson will undoubtedly prove to be helpful.  I really do like all the info in that book, though I do wish some of the drawings were bigger, or that they showed more complete sections of the rigging....in many cases, all that is shown are the standing ends of each line, and in quite small depictions...truth is, some of the most helpful info is purely text descriptions, which is okay, too.  There are some good diagrams, but I wish every book on rigging were as *clear* as Lennarth Petersson's stuff!

Regarding ratlines...I've done them with black thread, and also with tan.  Of course, it's no secret that standing rigging should be tarred, and therefore black (or dark brown, which I'm using for all the tarred standing rigging on this ship...I think the Syren dark brown looks pretty *tarr-ey*, so I'm hoping it translates well on the model)....but somehow I kinda like the dimensional effect of lighter colored line for the ratlines....my Swan had tan ratlines, as well as the Golden Hind.  While not correct, I do like it.  What I don't like seeing is tan shrouds with tan ratlines...even I can't abide that!  haha

Anyway, I wanted some very fine line from Syren, so I got the thinnest stuff in tan....I've always used sewing thread for my ratlines in the past, and it's very possible I'll use sewing thread for the SR ratlines, as well (it's MUCH cheaper than anything from Syren!)...and just for the sake of thoroughness (?) I'll compare black and tan for the ratlines, and see which I like best before I commit.

I should have some actual construction progress soon.  I'm about to detail up the main deck parts and get them prepped.  

Thanks again!

Dave

Since ratlines get tarred after finishing, I ordinarily use black.  I often but not always paint results black or very dark brown anyway to simulate tarring.

Dr. Anderson's book contains plenty of info about rigging line diameters. That's the most important source I used for the rigging of my SR, lo those many years ago.

This might help you on those line sizes.

I believe you can find standard line sizes for 18th century rigging in Longridge, But I do not know what level you want to take this to. In any case excited about the prospect of some soon to come pics.

I know it's early to be concerning myself with rigging line, but I figured I would need some pretty soon for fitting and testing.  I've heard a lot of great things about Syren, so I went over to their website and ordered one each of several diameters/colors.  Since I'm not exactly sure what sizes I'll need, I just got an assortment that I thought seemed *close* to what I might need....once it arrives I figure I can judge them by diameter and at least then as I order more for later, I'll have a gauge to make my decision by.

Here's what I ordered, and for what purpose I hope each type will serve....

.008 tan, for ratlines

.018 tan, for lanyards, light running rigging, etc.

.018 dark brown (?)

.025 tan, for most running rigging lines

.025 dark brown, for upper stays, upper shrouds (?)

.035 dark brown, for stays, shrouds

.045 dark brown, for stays, shrouds

Progress update:  All the cannons are done, with the upper deck guns fitted with breeching ropes as the only rigging added.  Got the gunports painted and weathered..  I really wanted to get a bunch of the most tedious work out of the way early (guns and gunports), so now I don't have to think much about them until installation.

my next step is to start prepping the decks for installation, and associated deck furniture, boats, etc., then to begin installing brass eyebolts in the hull for chainplate prep, and it won't be long before I'm working on some gold decorative painting....things are about to start happening, after all this preliminary work!  Very exciting!

Dave

dave I know you have done a few tutorials., on u tube , how to do ratlines , make chainplates., have you thought of doing one for your weathering techniques. I for one would love to see it.,

If the molds do not produce sufficient detail you can always resort to your painting skills to enhance the resulting parts...

And half cannons are a pain indeed. I'm just about to start assembling those of the 1/100 Victory during lunch time at work, and just looking at the sprues is so intimidating already!

Half and half cannons are  a gremlin for all of the big (1/96- 1/100).  No easy answer when you need 50-74 and they cost $ 4.00 AM.

I just sit down for a week and sand sand sand.

Can't imagine plastic ship modeling before flexi sanding sticks from CVS,

Oh wait, I did that.

Yeah I get Sculpey at the local art store for about $ 9,00 out the door.

I built a couple of *test cannons*, to see how they look, and if I like them.

I spread the wheels out further than the instructions indicate, they made the guns look wobbly and top-heavy, and just plain funny otherwise...I think they look better now.  I also drilled holes in the carriage for breeching ropes, and there's a rope though one of the carriages.

I really, really don't like the half-molded gun barrels...so hard to eliminate the seam.

The oil paint is still fresh, so it looks shiny.

I also got my Sculpy today...which brings me to a quick rant:

I went to my local JoAnn Fabrics to get some oven-bake clay, since I like to support brick & mortar shops when I can...I get to the *Clay Aisle*, and the price tag for a box of Sculpy was 16 dollars.  I was kinda surprised, so I took out my trusty "smartphone", and looked up the same product on Amazon...

$8.01, with free 2-day shipping (Prime)...well, like I said, I prefer to support local businesses, but for a price difference of 100%, I really felt like I wanted to keep the other 8 dollars...sorry, JoAnn!

Anyway, I made 12 molds of the gallery panels, and baked them....not sure if they will produce good detail when I cast replacement parts from them, but we'll see.

Thanks for looking!

Dave

Me too, Bill!  haha

Hopefully the clay will be able to capture the fine details of these decorative panels...the relief is not very pronounced.  Since it's a new technique for me, I'll be sure and document my trials, and post my findings here.  I still have plenty to do before the galleries go together, though...

THX

Dave

I am definitely interested in seeing how this technique works!

Bill

Flexibility of the unbaked clay is a good point, John....a couple of the panels do have some curvature, so it'll be nice to make adjustments before baking!  Thanks!

I'll pick up some Sculpy or FImo this week (way cheaper than a casting kit!)...and see if I can get some test pieces made up.  

Steve, you're right...just gotta try it out, see what happens!  I think you'll get a feel for it pretty quick, and then you can develop it into a personal style...Good luck , amigo!

Dave

thanks dave for the advice., only one thing left to do., have a go

There's an important advantage to that clay approach over resin. If I remember the kit correctly (beware my notorious memory), you're going to have to put your new "carvings" on a flat surface, whereas the ones you'll be copying are curved. If you shape them right after you take them out of the molds, that should be fairly easy. If you use cast resin, it won't be.

I've bought a package or two of Sculpy over the years, but I've never gotten around to trying it seriously. I have no idea how it would work for a job like this. I do know that Chuck Passaro has made some good figureheads with it.

If that doesn't work, MicroMark sells a whole range of products for making resin castings. I've never used them, but I've heard that they work well. They aren't cheap, though.

If you can figure out how to correct that problem with the quarter galleries, you'll be taking a major step toward fixing one of the kit's most glaring mistakes. Good luck.

Well, if you guys have gotten good results with oven-bake clay....guess I have to give it a try.  I've used sculpy and Fimo before...

Thanks for the advice!

Ditto and there's a similar product I use called Sculpy.

Dave;

I have no experience w/ resin casting, so I can't help w/ that, but I have taken  "Premol" clay that you bake to harden. What i have done is press the original into the clay, then bake it to get a hard mold, then use the same clay to fill the mold and pull a casting from it that you then bake as well. I used some vegetable oil to keep the clay from sticking to the mold and then cleaned up the edges etc. before baking. Worked just fine and a lot less complicated than resin casting.

And as long as I'm on here, asking questions....

Can anyone recommend a kit/technique for making molds of small parts?  I'd like to copy the decorative carvings from the quarter gallery windows, cast duplicates and attach the duplicates to a false wall within the galleries.  But I don't know a thing about molding, and casting.  ?  They're very thick while still attached to the panels, so I thought if I could just make copies of the raised portion of each decoration I could use them...

Anybody have some experience with this?

Thanks!

D

That IS a coincidence!  Looks like I can probably go with a similar placement for my breeching lines...

THX!