Heller Soleil Royal (WIP)

Hey Steve-

Thanks for the kudos...

Yes, use a brush to apply the artist's oils....and I recommend using a brush that's meant for oil paint...they have more coarse, stiff bristles....if you use a regular modeling paintbrush you're likely to ruin it, or at least get poor results.

If you like the really, really weathered look, you should check out some of Steve's (docidle) threads n the forum...he really goes for it with weathering!

My best suggestion for you would be to pick up a couple colors of tube oil paint (some light and some dark tones) and some thinner (turpenoid, odorless mineral spirits) and a brush.  Take some old model parts that you might have lying around, or heck, buy a cheapo kit and use it for practice...I bought one of the small Disney Pirate Ship models from Revell for like 10 bucks and used the parts for weathering experiments.  Just lay down some basecoats (remember, use acrylic base coats if you're going to weather with oil) and then start messing with different techniques...

Good Luck!

Dave

dave , when describing your weathering techniques , you said you use artist's oil's, I assume you apply it with a brush not an air brush.,I'm only asking because I'm a lousey weatherer., and I've decided to have a go at the black pearl., and I know there is a lot of weathering on this model.,do you just build layer's up sanding in between and dry brush at the end., am I some where near the mark. your about the best weatherer I've seen , and believe me I need help.

Dave;

Check out Force9's latest post. what a coincidence!

Hi Guys-

Thanks for the comments. :)

Arnie, that break in the planking is because the Hawse Hole area of the hull is actually a separate piece...the hull had a rectangular void in there until the piece went in, and it evidently doesn't fit flush with the planking behind it...not sure why it was designed that way?  Some future builders might like to fill that gap in, or find a way to even out the fit of the parts there. It is kind of glaring, now that you mention it...just took a look at the instructions, it also seems that Heller meant for that front section of the bow (starting AT that line) to be painted black, from that line and up to the top of the wales?  

Bill, my painting/weathering technique is something I figured out by studying the effects of other ship models that I liked...I use acrylic model paint basecoats in various colors, and then I apply artists oil paints (the kind in a tube, for making paintings)....sometimes I use it full strength, and sometimes I thin it a bit with turpenoid to get a more wash-y consistency.  I used to apply more traditional washes made from thinned model paint, but I found it kinda difficult to get the exact level of color transition where I wanted it, and I find that tube paints offer me more control.  I recommend getting a tube from your local art/hobby store, and trying some experiments!

John, you're right, the photos are a bit dark (and grainy...I thought my phone had a decent camera?)...but the *worn wood* effect is meant to be somewhat severe...though not as much as it may seem.  I'm going to try to take better pics in the future, maybe the lighting in here is too dim for a good pic (which would also explain the digital graining, maybe)...

I was careful to make sure the waterline is parallel to the keel, thank you for mentioning that the marked waterline is uneven...that's also something that future builders might like to keep in mind...

When I got to the point of mounting the hull on the base, I had to be careful that the *prongs* of the pedestals were keeping the hull correctly leveled...the fore pedestal prong only fits beyond the edge of the keel by about ~1/8" before they bottom-out on the hull...the aft pedestal prong could fit all the way on until the keel bottoms out in the pedestal slot....because of the hull shape toward the rear and how the strakes (?) are closer to vertical....SO, I lined up the hull at the correct level, and used a bunch of epoxy to fix the hull at its level on the mounting hardware before tightening the nuts onto the bolts.  Just re-read that explanation, and it's obvious that it probably doesn't make a lick of sense!  haha

Anyway, there yo go....

Thanks again!

Dave

Excellent work!

It looks great to me. I think the photos are a little dark; that may make the weathering look a little more severe than it is.

Having the keel parallel to the base is right if the new waterline is parallel to the keel. It looks like it is.

Dave,

I love the appearance! And, the raised waterline looks correct.  Could you please describe  your weathering technique?

Thanks!

Bill

Lookin' great David.

Um...what is that nearly vertical break in the planking just aft of the hawse holes?

I am assuming that it is mirrored on the other side.

I like the weathering. Probably excessive for this ship, but maybe she could have looked like this after spending a few months at sea (don't know if she ever did!) Anyways, I prefer a bit too much weathering over a bit too pristine - specially on a plastic model, which if too clean looks like... plastic. Your weathering, rather than making it look old, makes it look like wood. Good job!

It's been a couple weeks since I posted any updates, so I guess I'll throw up a couple pics...

Got the hull halves weathered, assembled, and mounted on a display board.  Picked up a piece of red oak at the lumberyard, routered and stained it, and used two pedestals from ME to hold it up...I was careful to keep the keel level, and I think it came out okay.

For some reason, these pictures make the lower hull look very similar in color to the upper...but in person they look the way they should, brownish on top, greyish on bottom?

As you can probably tell, there won't be anything *shiny and new* about my SR's presentation...I know that it was a ship meant to convey all the elegance and pomp befitting a 17th century King of France, but I want my model to look like it's 300 years old.

Anyway, that's where I'm at...and I'm knee deep in cannon parts until further notice!

Thanks for looking!

Dave

Scottrc, I agree about the contrast between the bootstripe and the lower hull color...and there are times when I just paint the hull one *woody* color, too...and with pleasant results...

Not sure how the pics come across here, but the lower hull is a light grey, though it may look white from the exposure.

I went ahead and scraped off the waterline ridge yesterday...took me about 5 minutes per side with a curved X-acto blade...I scraped down until the blade was beginning to remove material from the adjoining plank detail.  Then I just touched up the exposed black plastic with a brush using the grey paint.  it took a couple of coats to fully hide the black from underneath, but it wasn't a big deal...the whole process took about an hour (part of that time was waiting for the previous coat to dry)...looks much better....and though there is still an artifact of the old waterline ridge, it's hardly visible, and only for someone who knew it was there, or was looking for it specifically.

I'm hopeful that when I apply the oils later, they will not reveal the difference in basecoat thickness, since most of the lower hull is a single thin airbrushed coat, and the area around the waterline has about 3 coats of brushed-on paint...right now it looks even, but like I said before, the oils stick to/soak in to the basecoats differently, based on the condition of the basecoat.  We'll see if I can keep it blended right.

So, my next step is to paint the wales on the hull, as well as the *entry ladder*  (again if anyone knows the right term for the stairs on the side of the hull??)...then I will be close to hull half assembly, texture effects, and display base mounting.

One thing that I'm trying to decide first is how to prepare the hull exterior in the area BEHIND the now-open quarter galleries...I've seen pics from people who have just painted the hull the same as all the other outer hull, and simply put the galleries on over it (didn't look right to me)....I'm thinking of shaving off the wales on that rear area behind the galleries(to make more space between the balcony rails and the inner wall) and maybe using card stock or thin styrene (?) to fashion a false wall that I can attach to the hull inside the gallery, and then decorate that and also attach the old *panels* from the gallery windows to it.

This is where I wish I had some dialogue with someone who had opened the galleries and how they approached it....I don't have much experience with scratchbuilding, and pretty much all of the pics I can find online of the open galleries show little of what's been done behind them (I'd really like to see one in person so I could get in close and scrutinize the details.  Also, I expect I'll make some kind of floor while I'm making the inner wall.

Anyways, that's my current status.  Hope to have something more to share after the weekend.

Thanks!

Dave

This is looking really good David.  My take on below  the waterline issue on period ships is that it drives me nuts to try to get the line right because of the dang raised detail and the huge contrast between the lower hull color and the upper hull color, so i just paint the whole hull a neutral color to resemble dark wood and be off with the puritans.  This relieves the stress your going through and allows you to enjoy blending and building up the different hues with your oils.  I also feel all the "white" or bright colors used to represent the lower hull distracts from the beauty of the upper works of the ship, which is where you want the viewers eye to focus on.  Don't scrape, You should be able to paint over the gray, if anything it will make a wonderful base coat.

My best bet would be to scrape off the waterline, and repaint the entire lower half of the hull.  One of the particulars about my texture and weathering technique is that it's quite sensitive to the nature of the basecoat below it.  If I airbrush an entire section, and then go over with a brush, the area that was brushed may look pretty similar to the eye, but the application of oil paints and wash to those areas will show the difference, and sometimes quite markedly.

I would be hesitant to scrape off the waterline and just re-paint that area of the hull, for those reasons...

I'm keeping my hands off of the build for a few days, then I'll see if I feel like I'm interested in re-doing the lower hull...one concern is that, sure, I could scrape the waterline ridge off, but there would still be a smooth line along the hull.  And I'm not sure I can re-engrave the *wood grain* detail by hand so that it would look like the rest....though, even getting that ridge filed down would make a difference.

We'll see what happens...

Thanks!

Dave

All I can contribute to the debate over the raised "waterline" is that when I look at the photos on my 21-inch monitor I can see the line. When I look at it on my phone I can't.

Dave is one of the best weathering guys in the business. Maybe he can make the thing disappear.

I do wonder, though, whether scraping it off and repainting, say, half an inch on either side of it would really be such a big deal. I'm no expert on airbrush technique, but it seems like an hour or two invested in getting rid of that line would pay pretty good dividends. Dave's choice, of course.

I do think raising the waterline makes the hull look a LOT better and more reasonable. I'll be interested to see what it looks like when those big pieces that make up the upper bulwarks are on.

In any case, so far it looks a heck of a lot better than (as I remember it) the one I built lo those many years ago.

Thanks, guys!

Steve, the color for the upper hull is MM Acryl Tan....it's pretty light now, but as you know, MM soaks up the oil paint, so once I get weathering on it, it'll be quite a bit darker.

I'm still on the fence as to whether or not to try removing the waterline ridge.

I could see my efforts turning it into a worse spectacle than it is now, and that would be unfortunate.

Got some long hours to put in this week at work, so I'm going to give it a few days while I consider the options, and move ahead when I'm confident in my decision.

Unfortunately, I don't have a camera. I also have never learned how to post on FSM.  But, I will work on both!

John, I also remember those winged horses. Both sets were manufactured by Mamoli. They are probably the only things that they got right!

Bill

Nice work so far, though that waterline raised mark is a bugger, it's quite noticeable. Heller shouldn't have put it in a kit like this; I understand it makes it easier to paint it straight, but any modeler who tackles such a build is suppossed to know how to use masking tape. If it was a more modern vessel you could copper the bottom, but not with this one...

Anyways, once weathering is applied the sheer beauty of the model should distract from that detail. Keep up the good work!

Integral for finding the area under a curve, where a,b is the interval and F(x) is the function given by the curve, and dx is the change in x over the interval. See what your build has elicited from me. 

Can't wait to see more David. 

Looks sweet Dave! What color and make did you use for the tan? I am sorry to hear about the MM paint although I had the same issue with some of their acrylics lately as you know.  The Red Earth to be exact.

I think you should go with brass pedestals as they will just add to your fabulous work on the SR.

Steve

Bill, do you have any pics to share of your SR??

Dave

Thanks for the input, Gents!

Well, here's where I stand:

I got the waterline bootstripe painted on...I indeed raised the waterline to just below the lowest wale (I think it makes a vast improvement)...something to mention is that, not only is the scribed waterline mark not level, it's also not even along the length of the hull....I set my hull halves up on a jig and used to a level to true them up....my new waterline mark is definitely level, and it crosses the raised marking a couple of different times in weird arcs, and it's very obvious that it was not made to be perfect.

Mine looks okay, and the higher waterline helps to overcome the top-heavy effect...somewhat.

I agree that leaving the raised line could be an eyesore later....but I'm not sure I want to start the hull painting from scratch...I hope it's not going to be super-noticeable, but stripping off all the paint isn't worth it to me at this point (I've got a coat of oil-base primer, and 3 coats of different colored acrylics laid down already...seems like it could end up a lot messier if I start stripping stuff off....it's a minor thing that I can most likely overcome/overlook with the right application of weathering effects :)

The lack of planking on the underside is also not a big deal to me...it's not going to be visible on the finished model unless someone is looking for it from underneath...and again, not a big deal to me.

The mounting stand.

I had been leaning toward using the kit-supplied cradle...but as I think about it more (and with a little influence from you all) I decided to use brass pedestals and a wooden base, like I did with the Chebec and the Golden Hind...it's more stable, looks a bit nicer, and also it's much easier to transport a model when it's got a stout base with a gap between the display board and the keel  (even so, I hope I don't have to transport this thing very often once it's done!)...so I'm about to order some pedestals from ME, maybe 3 or 4, and get a nice piece of walnut or something from the lumber store and break out the router.  Of course, that will be installed pretty soon, as soon as the hull halves are glued together I'll mount it, and then start putting the decks in.

But I still have some touch-up to do on the hull, and have to remove some pencil marks along the old waterline, etc.

I also have one more color to spray....the gold.  I'm a bit apprehensive, since acrylic gold never seems to look good to me....but I'll give it a whirl this week, and see how it comes out.

Also, as an aside...I think I may be giving up on MM Acrylic paints for good...I can't count on them for consistent quality, and during an airbrushing session is not the time to find out that I got a bottle of bad paint!

Bill's corrected my memory. The "planks" apparently continue down to the point where the injection-molding process made them impracticable. (Think about it a second. If the planking detail continued across that nearly-flat bottom, the parts wouldn't come out of the molds.)

I have to say that nobody ever noticed the smooth bottom of mine. But I'm sure Bill's right: scribing plank edges and "wood grain" wouldn't be too difficult.

I remember those dolphins ME used to sell. I think they were from Mamoli, Amati, or one of the other HECEPOB companies. Seems to me they also made a pair of winged horses for the purpose.

Whatever mounting method you use, for heaven's sake start making arrangements for it early. I speak from bitter experience.

I concur with eliminating the raised waterline. I scrape it off whenever I build this kit for someone. Also, the wood grain continues below the waterline until almost to the keel, where it becomes a smooth plate. It doesn't take much to scribe the planks.  I also take the waterline up to almost touching the lowest wale, which is where I have seen a French illustrator draw them on late 17th - early 18th century French ships-of-the-Line.  I don't know if it is truly accurate, but it makes the model look more proportionate.

I display the SR in my house with four classic dolphins holding up the ship. I bought these many years ago from Model Expo.  They just seem to compliment this model so well.

Bill

That discrepancy in the waterline heights at the bow and stern is why mine wound up with a slanted waterline. It's one of the many reasons I dislike the kit so intensely.

I don't know enough about seventeenth-century French naval architecture to say for sure, but it seems highly unlikely that such a ship would draw about six feet more water aft than forward. Lacking any further evidence, I'm inclined to agree that a keel parallel to the waterline makes the most sense.

Dave, if you don't get rid of that raised "waterline" I'm afraid you'll regret it. Sounds like the best solution at this point would be to shave/sand it off, and repaint.

There's another potential problem with the exterior of the hull halves. If my memory is correct (as is well-known, it frequently isn't these days), the molded "wood-grain" detail stops at the marked (i.e., tilted) waterline. If you move the waterline, that will look really weird. Rather than trying to scribe the planking and wood grain on the underwater hull, I'd suggest removing the detail below the new waterline that you've made.

Have you already figured out how you want to mount the model? That plastic stand that comes in the box, frankly, isn't up to the aesthetic standards of Dave's workmanship.

I mounted mine on four brass pedestals - one near the bow, one near the stern, and one under each bilge slightly forward of amidships. I thought the model would look top-heavy on only two pedestals.

I made the bow and stern pedestals on my dear old Unimat. For the bilge pedestals I used modified lamp finials. Up to you - of course. But the time to figure it out is now. I've preached this sermon before, but whatever mounting method you choose has to be solid. You don't want to be worrying about it after the decks are in place.

Good luck.

Bit of a hiccup.

So I've already painted the lower hull and the upper hull, and today I was planning to mask of and paint the boot-stripe in black separating the waterline from the tan bulwarks...the intention was to raise the waterline a bit, and also even it out (the scribed mark on the hull really is un-level...to the tune of ~3/4" higher at the rear!)....anyway, I notice that the scribed line where Heller intended the waterline to go is raised molding, as also quite pronounced...if I raise the waterline, when I go over the lower hull with a wash, it will undoubtedly reveal the original waterline mark as an arched line in the planking.

The most obvious solution would be to remove the waterline ridge with a hobby knife or similar, right?

Well, since I've already primered the hull and painted it, if I scrape off the waterline ridge now, it will leave bare plastic which will then have to be re-primered (presumably and repainted...and who knows if it'll leave detectable scuff/scratch/repainted marks??

Hmmm...

I may have to leave that line of molded waterline border in place and just be careful to not let the wash fill in up against it...

Hmmm....

It's going to bug me all day!

Thanks, rdiaz!  I really do think of detail-painting as my primary skill with models...it's probably my favorite part.

I'm glad you're interested in seeing the progress...I hope to have something to share pretty soon, though my current efforts mostly involve laying down basecoats with the airbrush...nothing too exciting!

Dave

Dave,

During my time as a lurker in this forum I've thoroughly enjoyed your build logs - in particular, your paint jobs are exquisite, in my humble opinion. And this subject sure will benefit from your skills in that regard.

I can't wait to see what you come up with!

thanks jtilley., as you said., pictures speak louder than words., sometimes.

A few days ago Steve5 asked for references to how parrels worked. I posted some links in my reply, but he couldn't get the links to work, which probably means that nobody else could. I apologize for my tardiness in answering; I've been out of town. Let's see if this works better:

Looks good from here. The photo shows a parrel on an in-progress model of a seventeenth-century ship, probably about like the Soleil Royal - but smaller. 

Here's another one:

That's a drawing from a ship modeling site.

Hope this helps. I got those shots by googling "parrel," then clicking on "images." If your computer doesn't show the pictures in this post, you can do the same. (If you can't, maybe it's time to think about changing computers.)