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Heller Soleil Royal (WIP)

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  • Member since
    May 2003
  • From: Greenville, NC
Posted by jtilley on Wednesday, January 7, 2015 11:18 AM

I don't understand the reference to opening holes and slats in the last post - but maybe I'm missing something obvious.

steve5 - A parrel is a simple mechanical device that secures a yard (or gaff, or boom) to a  mast in a way that lets the yard (or gaff, or boom) swing with the mast as a pivot, and slide up and down the mast.

In order to function properly, a yard has to be able to swing (so the sail attached to it can receive the wind from different directions) and slide up and down the mast (up when the sail on the yard is set, down when the sail is furled). In the days of the SR, if I'm not mistaken, all the yards had parrels. By the time of the Victory, the lower yards were being held to the masts by heavy rope trusses. But the topsail, topgallant, and royal yards in Nelson's day used just about the same sort of parrels that had been in use a hundred years earlier.

A parrel consists of a bunch of rollers, or beads, a set of ribs with holes cut in them to act as spacers, and a pair of long pieces of rope. The rope gets passed alternately through the ribs and beads, forming a sort of roller bearing arrangement.

This sort of thing is much easier to show in a picture than to describe verbally. Here's a drawing I found in a few minutes of googling:  http://www.google.com/url?sa=i&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=images&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CAcQjRw&url=http%3A%2F%2Fshipmodeling.net%2Fphotopost%2Fshowphoto9285.html&ei=8WitVJXtOcuiNua1gbgN&bvm=bv.83134100,d.eXY&psig=AFQjCNEUrfxjmjWCmDr0_RsYD9WzOO9Wkg&ust=1420737108850921 .

Here's another:  http://www.google.com/url?sa=i&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=images&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CAcQjRw&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.duyfken.com%2Fimage-gallery-1%2Fduyfken-and-svanen-on-sydney-harbour&ei=PGmtVLmpB4KxggS5xYKQAQ&bvm=bv.83134100,d.eXY&psig=AFQjCNFw4FqxfllJnyP3gH0nUCO-AWw80w&ust=1420737189346460 .

It's easy to make parrels on 1/100 scale. The ribs can be made of either wood or styrene, and the rollers from small glass beads.

As I've said several times before in this Forum, to build a model of a ship like the Victory with minimal stress and headaches you really need at least one good, basic book with drawings that show how the ship actually worked. The instructions in the Heller kit are awful; they apparently were written by somebody who knew mighty little about ships. (The English "translation" usually packed in kits for British and American distribution are worse. The person responsible for them, it seems, neither understood French nor had tried to build the model.) The old, standby source of information on this ship is C. Nepean Longridge's The Anatomy of Nelson's Ships. There are a number of other good books on the subject; we've covered them here in earlier Forum threads.

For a good, basic description of how sailing ships work, I highly recommend George Campbell's Neophyte Shipmodeler's Jackstay. It dates from the 1960s, and is primarily aimed at modelers working from solid-hull wood kits. But the basic information in it is valid for any sailing ship model. And I know of no better introduction to the fundamentals of sailing ship-era nautical terminology. Learn everything in that little book, and you're well on your way to being a knowledgeable ship modeler.

The best news about Campbell's Jackstay: it's cheap! Here's a link:  http://www.modelexpo-online.com/product-p/msb110.htm .  If you're only going to keep one book on your workbench, that's the one I'd recommend.

Youth, talent, hard work, and enthusiasm are no match for old age and treachery.

  • Member since
    January 2013
Posted by jibber on Wednesday, January 7, 2015 12:56 PM

J, what I'm referring to is opening the holes slightly on deadeyes etc, I found some of the fits a little tight and like anything else it make assembly a bit easier.

  • Member since
    March 2012
  • From: Marysville, WA
Posted by David_K on Saturday, January 10, 2015 1:49 PM

So, I'm working on parts prep, which includes the drilling of holes for gunport rigging.  I have a question about the height of the holes in the hull...is there a *general rule* for the distance between the top of a gunport and the hole where the line enters above it (on the hull) for opening the port?  On the SR model, the gunports are not uniformly located below the wales...toward the bow, the gunports are within 1/8" below the wale, and near the stern they are from 1/4" to 3/8" below the wale...I'd like to keep the height of the hull holes uniformly spaced above the gunports, but then I would be making holes directly through the wales for the gunport door line...seems unlikely that the wales would have holes in them?

My alternative would be to make some holes higher/lower than others....but I don't like the sound of that, either!

Any advice?

Thanks!

Dave

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Current Project:  Imai/ERTL Spanish Galleon #2

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  • Member since
    May 2003
  • From: Greenville, NC
Posted by jtilley on Saturday, January 10, 2015 4:35 PM

I don't know much about French naval archtecture, but the varying distance between the gunports and the wales isn't surprising. The port sills have to be the same distance above the deck, and decks frequently weren't parallel to the wales. Take a look at HMS Victory. Some of her ports are cut through the wales; other ports on the same deck aren't.

I don't know of any standardized distance between the top of a gunport and the hole for the tackle. It stands to reason that it would be consistent on a given deck. The higher the hole, the easier the tackle would be to work. If I were designing such a ship, I'd drill the holes right under the beam shelf for the deck above - or maybe even through the beam shelf. But I've never designed one.

'Fraid that doesn't help much. Sorry.

Youth, talent, hard work, and enthusiasm are no match for old age and treachery.

  • Member since
    September 2012
Posted by GMorrison on Saturday, January 10, 2015 5:05 PM

From the inside, the line gets belayed around a clear on one of the overhead beams which would usually be to either side of the port.

There can't be any mechanical advantage when the port is closed. I figure that a couple of big gunners must push the thing open a ways while the rest of the crew haul on the rope.

So higher is better than lower as long as it's below the next deck. I vote constant spacing.

 Modeling is an excuse to buy books.

 

  • Member since
    May 2003
  • From: Greenville, NC
Posted by jtilley on Saturday, January 10, 2015 11:59 PM

I think GM's device did him the favor of changing "cleat" to "clear." Don't ya love electronic brains?

A port lid of a ship-of-the-line was a heavy piece of timber and metal. GM's right: it would have to get a big shove to start opening it. The port lid tackle typically would consist of two blocks. One would be fastened to the rope coming through the hole in the ship's side, the other to an eyebolt in a carling inboard of the gunport. Even so, several guys would have to haul on it to open the lid.

Dave, I hope you don't have any screwy ideas of putting the rigging on the guns that are below decks. Only their muzzles will be visible.

One tip based on hard experience. Be sure the gun carriages are fastened to the decks firmly. Those protruding barrels have an amazing ability to snag rigging lines, which can easily yank the barrels off the carriages.

Youth, talent, hard work, and enthusiasm are no match for old age and treachery.

  • Member since
    June 2012
Posted by arnie60 on Sunday, January 11, 2015 1:01 PM

As a rule, wales were simply thicker strakes and were primarily placed to deal w/ the extra abrasions caused by docking. Clinker straked ships and boats usually had the wale(s) added on top of the strakes, again, to prevent wear and tear. So, from a structural standpoint, cutting through a wale is really no different than cutting through the regular strakes for the ports.

And I agree w/ Jtilley about gluing down those guns. I've popped several from the gun deck of my Connie and now wish I had epoxied them in as it is going to be a pain getting them reseated and glued down.

  • Member since
    March 2012
  • From: Marysville, WA
Posted by David_K on Sunday, January 11, 2015 2:47 PM

Thanks, guys!

I'll be careful to secure the carriages to the decks.  I 'm actually thinking of leaving some (or even all) of the gunports closed...if I go that way, I won't even be building many of the guns...seems like the gunports would be closed if a ship were showing furled sails or bare poles, am I right?  On the other hand, it looks more dramatic to have all the ports open and the guns run out...I'm still on the fence about it.  Also, as far as rigging the guns on the upper deck...all the photos I've seen of rigged guns for a Soleil Royal model look really wonky, out of scale, and cluttered...giant blocks, tons of line everywhere...they just seem too busy.  If I can find a way to get it looking right, I'll rig them to a certain degree, but I may also just rig breeching lines or some other, less clumsy, amount of rigging for the guns.

I basically decided on two different heights for the gunport tackle:  all the ports forward of the "entry ladder" (or whatever it's called!) will be above the wale, and the ports aft of the ladder will be below that wale, OR 5mm above the port, depending on how low the ports go below the wale (at the furthest aft, they get as low as 3/8" below it.  So there's that.

With all the holes to drill (about 250, including 2 for each port lid, and 2 for each area above the lids) I was hoping to be able to use a Dremel-type tool and a tiny bit...but my rotary tool is single-speed, and it goes so fast that it melts the plastic a bit, which causes the shavings to stick to the bit...so I would have to clean the bit after every hole...instead, I just decided to go the ol' fashioned way...pin vise, by hand.  I've made a few little jigs that are the same width as each different size of port lid, with notches to indicate the spacing of the tackle holes...lay the jig on the porthole, make a couple marks with a sharpened punch, then drill them out with the pin vise.  After about 28 holes, got a little bit of finger cramps!  But I'm almost 1/8th of the way done, so I guess I can break it down into short sessions and have them all done by next week or so.  Won't be too long before I'm spraying basecoats.

Dave

        _~
     _~ )_)_~
     )_))_))_)
     _!__!__!_         
     (_D_P_K_)
   ~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    ~~~~~~~~~~~

Current Project:  Imai/ERTL Spanish Galleon #2

Recently Finished: Revell 1/96 Cutty Sark

Next Up:  ???

 

  • Member since
    May 2003
  • From: Greenville, NC
Posted by jtilley on Sunday, January 11, 2015 11:47 PM

I've been ranting for years about my big beef with Dremel Moto-Tools: the danged things turn too fast. Even the lowest speed on the variable-speed versions is faster than it ought to be for most modeling jobs.

I did a post on Dremel's web forum about this several years ago. Apparently I'm in a minority; nobody replied to my post.

Dremel used to make two stand-alone speed controls, one foot-operated, the other a little benchtop box with a knob on the front. I had the latter. It was great. I could, for instance, set a non-spinning drill bit exactly where I wanted it, then turn the knob till the bit was turning as fast as I wanted. And the control was  useful for all sorts of other things. I plugged my Unimat lathe into it (no more belt changes to change speeds), and used it to control the heat of my soldering iron. The thing could also be used to change the size of a picture on a black-and-white tv set. Don't ask how I found that out.

Nowadays I use a much smaller rotary tool, made by a German company called We-Cheer and formerly available through Woodcraft. It's slightly fatter than a fiber-tipped marker, and uses Dremel collets. I cobbled up a speed control for it out of a three-prong Duplex outlet, a dimmer switch, a plastic electrical box, and some wire. (Total cost at Lowe's: less than 10 bucks.) Works fine. Unfortunately, of course We-Cheer has discontinued the tool and replaced it with one that has a built-in speed control, which, of course, turns too fast on its slowest speed.

I do have a Dremel 100 single-speed Moto-Tool. It works fine with my primitive speed control.

Youth, talent, hard work, and enthusiasm are no match for old age and treachery.

  • Member since
    July 2008
  • From: Summerville, SC
Posted by jeffpez on Monday, January 12, 2015 6:06 AM

I totally agree with you. Last year I briefly attempted to use my Dremel to drill out the portholes on my Titanic hull but only tried one and gave up. I didn't do any damage but that was pure luck only. It needs to go much slower.

  • Member since
    March 2012
  • From: Marysville, WA
Posted by David_K on Monday, January 12, 2015 8:21 AM

A homemade speed control is a great idea!  May have to give that project a try one of these days...

John, do you notice a significant loss of torque when using such a tool at very low speeds?

        _~
     _~ )_)_~
     )_))_))_)
     _!__!__!_         
     (_D_P_K_)
   ~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    ~~~~~~~~~~~

Current Project:  Imai/ERTL Spanish Galleon #2

Recently Finished: Revell 1/96 Cutty Sark

Next Up:  ???

 

  • Member since
    March 2012
  • From: Marysville, WA
Posted by David_K on Monday, January 12, 2015 8:22 AM

Also, did you use a standard twisty-knob style of Dimmer Light Switch Control?

        _~
     _~ )_)_~
     )_))_))_)
     _!__!__!_         
     (_D_P_K_)
   ~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    ~~~~~~~~~~~

Current Project:  Imai/ERTL Spanish Galleon #2

Recently Finished: Revell 1/96 Cutty Sark

Next Up:  ???

 

  • Member since
    May 2003
  • From: Greenville, NC
Posted by jtilley on Monday, January 12, 2015 10:32 AM

I imagine there is some loss of torque at slow speeds, but for the things I do with the tool I've never noticed a problem. Yeah, I used an ordinary, twisty dimmer switch. In my earlier list of ingredients I left out one: a plastic cover plate to protect the innards. I found all the components in one trip to Lowe's, and putting the whole thing together took less than an hour. I screwed it to one leg of my workbench, where it's always handy.

Youth, talent, hard work, and enthusiasm are no match for old age and treachery.

  • Member since
    December 2014
Posted by Johnef on Monday, January 12, 2015 12:11 PM

For over 30yrs, I've been using a sewing machine foot pedal. You can go from zero to the highest speed with the control of your foot pressure.

  • Member since
    September 2005
  • From: Groton, CT
Posted by warshipguy on Monday, January 12, 2015 1:59 PM

I noticed the same problem when trying to use a Dremel on plastic models. Then, I bought a miniature rechargeable battery version. also made by Dremel, that works fine on plastic. I also bought a pen sander from Proxxon with a very slow variable speed setting making it perfect for plastic.

Bill

  • Member since
    June 2012
Posted by arnie60 on Monday, January 12, 2015 6:51 PM
  • Member since
    March 2012
  • From: Marysville, WA
Posted by David_K on Monday, January 12, 2015 6:53 PM

Good stuff!

I'll have to rig up a *dimmer control box* of my own...bet it could be useful for a lot of stuff...

Meanwhile, I got a bunch more of the holes done with the pin vise this afternoon...doesn't take that long, after all...did about 90 in an hour or so.  All that's left now are the gunport lid holes (still another 120 holes or so!)...but after a quick experiment, I realize that it might be more of a pain to drill them out while they're still on the sprue...takes a certain amount of pressure to drill through them, and I don't want to risk disconnecting any of them yet.

I may just paint them first, and drill the tackle holes once they're safely disconnected.

Just about time to start cutting the sprues up and getting all the parts together into piles of mini-sprues!

        _~
     _~ )_)_~
     )_))_))_)
     _!__!__!_         
     (_D_P_K_)
   ~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    ~~~~~~~~~~~

Current Project:  Imai/ERTL Spanish Galleon #2

Recently Finished: Revell 1/96 Cutty Sark

Next Up:  ???

 

  • Member since
    September 2012
Posted by GMorrison on Tuesday, January 13, 2015 12:01 AM

A tip Dave.

Jigs are always a good idea in big ship models

Spend an hour making a little jig into which you can drop the lids, then stick the drill down through a  pattern with the two holes.

 Modeling is an excuse to buy books.

 

  • Member since
    July 2013
Posted by steve5 on Tuesday, January 13, 2015 4:19 AM

thank you jtilley for your patience and time to explain it to me.,I haven't read [ scanned ] your suggested sites yet . but I intend to study them well.

 

  • Member since
    July 2013
Posted by steve5 on Tuesday, January 13, 2015 4:27 AM

dave have you looked ay the Tamiya electric drill for about $20 it's a kit ,runs on battery's, very low revs., I've got one, and find it pretty good

 

  • Member since
    March 2012
  • From: Marysville, WA
Posted by David_K on Tuesday, January 13, 2015 8:30 AM

I agree, GMorrison...a little time spent on making a jig can save a lot of time later, plus getting consistent results is a bonus!

Steve, I just took a look at that Tamiya drill kit....very interesting.  I may pick one up, at least to try it out (and it seems like it'd be fun to build!)...you have one, does it seem to hold the bits straight, or is there much wobble?  Will it hold the more commonly-needed sizes of bits?

        _~
     _~ )_)_~
     )_))_))_)
     _!__!__!_         
     (_D_P_K_)
   ~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    ~~~~~~~~~~~

Current Project:  Imai/ERTL Spanish Galleon #2

Recently Finished: Revell 1/96 Cutty Sark

Next Up:  ???

 

  • Member since
    July 2013
Posted by steve5 on Tuesday, January 13, 2015 1:37 PM

I had to buy a mini chuck to put in the end but it was no hassle., I've had no troubles with it wobblng

 

  • Member since
    November 2009
  • From: Twin Cities of Minnesota
Posted by Don Stauffer on Thursday, January 15, 2015 9:03 AM

Someone asked for pics of my Soleil WIP, so here are a couple I took yesterday.  Sorry- hope I am not stealing thread :-(

Don Stauffer in Minnesota

  • Member since
    March 2012
  • From: Marysville, WA
Posted by David_K on Thursday, January 15, 2015 12:50 PM

She looks great, Don!  

What method did you use for fashioning chainplates and fastening them to the hull?  I rigged up a false jig of a hull/channel section to try some experiments...I'm thinking of stropping a deadeye with annealed wire for the lower deadeye, then twisting the wire at the bottom and leaving a small loop...then using dark line (similar to the method in the instructions) in a slipknot to use as a chainplate, looping from the deadeye strop to a brass eyebolt glued into the hull.

Again, your SR looks really nice!  

I think any pics or insight about the build would be welcome here...please share as much as you want!  How about some closeups?  

Thanks!

        _~
     _~ )_)_~
     )_))_))_)
     _!__!__!_         
     (_D_P_K_)
   ~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    ~~~~~~~~~~~

Current Project:  Imai/ERTL Spanish Galleon #2

Recently Finished: Revell 1/96 Cutty Sark

Next Up:  ???

 

  • Member since
    November 2009
  • From: Twin Cities of Minnesota
Posted by Don Stauffer on Friday, January 16, 2015 9:19 AM

I just followed the kit instructions.  However, I made sure the paint was scraped away from every point of gluing, so I got a good bond. I use Loctite gel CA for a good, strong bond.  Of course, that limits the tension I can put on the shrouds, but I can live with that.

I have built a number of sailing warships through the years, and for plastic models the worst time I have had with bad glue joints is gun carriages to decks.  I now carefully drill through the paint on the deck where each carriage wheel will go, and run the carriages over a sheet of medium sandpaper to increase gluing area and insure no paint on bottom of wheel.  That seems to be doing the job lately.  On a multi-deck ship, you do NOT want a loose cannon on a lower deck!

Don Stauffer in Minnesota

  • Member since
    January 2013
Posted by jibber on Friday, January 16, 2015 11:58 AM

Don the easiest way I've found to secure cannons is to drill small holes in two of the wheels and in the deck where its going to set, then insert small brass pins to secure it. Its really a simple technique.

BTW, your lady is looking fantastic.

Terry  

  • Member since
    March 2012
  • From: Marysville, WA
Posted by David_K on Friday, January 16, 2015 7:10 PM

Spent some time in the garage this morning, primering a TON of parts, and separating more sprue sections into the final *piles* of mini-sprues, to be airbrushed.

Next step is to take a bag of parts that will be "X" color, do a little more sanding and prep, then start laying down basecoats...there's a lot to paint, so I expect I'll break it into sessions of one or two colors in a day (with a simpler kit, I would be able to paint all the different colors in one marathon airbrushing session).  Give it a couple weeks, and I should have all the basecoats down, and I can start some detail-painting.  

Also, I just got back from Lowe's, where I picked up components to make a little J-Box/Dimmer/Outlet speed control for the Dremel...I'll maybe spend some time this weekend assembling it and trying it out.

Question:  Should there be much concern for danger, from using a homemade box like this?  John, I got pretty much the same stuff you listed, except they no longer sell the twisty style of dimmers, so I got one that looks like a regular light switch, but the *potentiometer* action is adjusted by how far up the switch is positioned....hopefully it works okay, and doesn't catch fire!  haha  I have a multispeed dremel now, but as previously mentioned, even the slow speed is still much too fast for drilling small holes in plastic.

        _~
     _~ )_)_~
     )_))_))_)
     _!__!__!_         
     (_D_P_K_)
   ~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    ~~~~~~~~~~~

Current Project:  Imai/ERTL Spanish Galleon #2

Recently Finished: Revell 1/96 Cutty Sark

Next Up:  ???

 

  • Member since
    May 2003
  • From: Greenville, NC
Posted by jtilley on Friday, January 16, 2015 11:28 PM

I could get in trouble if I said this sort of thing is perfectly safe. If you do something stupid, like connecting the wires wrong, letting them touch each other when they shouldn't, or touching the wrong two terminals with your fingers when the thing's plugged in, you could pop a circuit breaker and/or zap yourself. But if you're careful, and have any experience with home wiring, you should be fine. (If you don't have any such experience, maybe you have a friend who does and would be willing to watch over your shoulder>)

Sometime back here in the forum somebody did an excellent thread, complete with step-by-step photos, that showed exactly how to hook up such a gadget. I've searched for that thread pretty thoroughly, but I can't find it. Can anybody else?

I'll offer one tip. Finish all the connections and screw on the cover plate before you plug the thing in for the first time. Set it on the table a couple of feet away from you, plug it in, and see if anything awful happens. If not, touch only the switch and the box (which are insulated), plug your Dremel tool into it, and see if it works as advertised.

One other piece of advice (which I saw in a USN electrical manual some years back): "Verily, verily I say unto thee, work not on electrical circuits alone. For electrical cooking is a slow process and thou might stew in thine own juice for hours before thy Maker sees fit to call thee into the fold."

And tell somebody in the house to call the paramedics if you zap yourself.

Good luck.

Youth, talent, hard work, and enthusiasm are no match for old age and treachery.

  • Member since
    September 2012
Posted by GMorrison on Saturday, January 17, 2015 1:51 AM

AKA have your wife hold you from behind by the belt, wearing tennis shoes, and yank you when she sees you ignite.

It's a pretty simple project.

 Modeling is an excuse to buy books.

 

  • Member since
    March 2012
  • From: Marysville, WA
Posted by David_K on Saturday, January 17, 2015 9:45 AM

It does bear mentioning to follow proper wiring methods...I have enough experience that wiring up a dimmer to an outlet is no biggie.  And I've been zinged by 110 enough to know that it won't kill me!

What I meant was, is there any reason to worry about damaging the motor of a tool that is rated to pull more amps than we're allowing it?  Overheating?

BTW, it works fine for dimming a drop light, and it even works on my cheapo one-speed generic rotary tool...but my Dremel 395 won't spin with the dimmer hooked up to it...it just buzzes a little bit, acts like it's going to turn...but it won't.  ??

        _~
     _~ )_)_~
     )_))_))_)
     _!__!__!_         
     (_D_P_K_)
   ~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    ~~~~~~~~~~~

Current Project:  Imai/ERTL Spanish Galleon #2

Recently Finished: Revell 1/96 Cutty Sark

Next Up:  ???

 

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