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soleil royal build

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  • Member since
    April 2016
Posted by Staale S on Tuesday, April 26, 2016 7:19 AM

Rigging details are problematic. They did not write down their practices much, ship's plans generally don't show this kind of thing, even if you have an intact wreck (Vasa!) the rope has rotted away, artist's impressions are notoriously suspect, models were often not rigged when built and if they were it has often been damaged at some point or other and repaired by God knows who who may or may not have known what they were doing and the repairs have acquired their own patina since and are visually indistinguishable from the original stuff... it is hard to pin down details and exact dates.

 

  • Member since
    March 2012
  • From: Marysville, WA
Posted by David_K on Tuesday, April 26, 2016 8:27 AM

Hey Steve-

I'm beginning to work on the topmasts now, and yesterday I was looking at the topmast crosstress for the topgallant deadeyes/futtock shrouds. 

Can you describe to me how you installed your deadeyes/strops/futtock shroud leads?  I'm trying to come up with a good way to do it...

Thanks!

Dave

        _~
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     )_))_))_)
     _!__!__!_         
     (_D_P_K_)
   ~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    ~~~~~~~~~~~

Current Project:  Imai/ERTL Spanish Galleon #2

Recently Finished: Revell 1/96 Cutty Sark

Next Up:  ???

 

  • Member since
    July 2013
Posted by steve5 on Tuesday, April 26, 2016 2:38 PM

haven't started them yet dave ,still doing the ratlines , was thinking of using some thin wire ., for the strops deadeye's all in one .wrapping it around the deadeye through the hole and down to the stave . haven't tried it yet . see how I go by the weekend , if you can think of anything better please let me know .

steve5

 

  • Member since
    July 2013
Posted by steve5 on Thursday, April 28, 2016 2:00 AM

finally finished the the upper ratlines , don't suppose you've got any ideas on the futtock shroud's dave ?  " />

 

  • Member since
    July 2013
Posted by steve5 on Thursday, April 28, 2016 2:02 AM

 

  • Member since
    February 2011
Posted by cerberusjf on Thursday, April 28, 2016 3:53 AM

About the topgallant, the "Royal Louis/Louis VX" model has deadeyes on the topgallant shrouds, but Boudriot's "l'Ambitieux" doesn't.  :S 

 

  • Member since
    March 2012
  • From: Marysville, WA
Posted by David_K on Thursday, April 28, 2016 8:23 AM

Hi Steve-

I pre-rigged my topgallant crosstrees last night, off the model.

What I did was not conventional (big surprise), but it addressed the issues I was concerned about.

First, I used a pin vise to drill an additional hole just beside each hole for the deadeye strops in the crosstree (hence it was easier off the model!)  I don't want my topgallant shrouds to be pulling up/out on the topmast shrouds, so I chose to secure the deadeyes fixedly to the crosstree, stropping them with black annealed wire, twisting the wire around itself to tighten, then running the tail end of the wire through the original holes in the crosstree.  I then clipped the wire to within 1/8" of the bottom fo the crosstree, and bent it over to keep the deadeye in place temporarily.

Then I took my line for the futtock shrouds (.018 Dark Brown, I believe...it may have been .025 I'm not at home right now to check) cut 6 lengths of 4", and tied a stopper overhand knot in one end of each.  Clipped the knot close, dabbed it with CA, and fed it down through the *new* holes I made in the crosstree.

Then I permanently positioned the deadeyes by bending the wire just so, and using tweezers I tucked the lower ends of the wires up close to the crosstree and the futtock shroud lead, used another drop of CA on each of those, and ta-da.  Now the deadeyes are firmly secured (and so that whatever tension I put on the togallant shrouds will not pull the topmast shrouds out of whack), and the leads for the futtock shrouds still come from *pretty much* the same place just below those deadeyes (imperceptibly run through the new holes, adjacent) also firmly in place.

It might be terribly confusing to describe!  Let me know if it makes any sense, I can share some pics with you if you think it would help?

Hope this helps you with yours :)

Dave

 

 

 

        _~
     _~ )_)_~
     )_))_))_)
     _!__!__!_         
     (_D_P_K_)
   ~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    ~~~~~~~~~~~

Current Project:  Imai/ERTL Spanish Galleon #2

Recently Finished: Revell 1/96 Cutty Sark

Next Up:  ???

 

  • Member since
    March 2012
  • From: Marysville, WA
Posted by David_K on Thursday, April 28, 2016 8:31 AM

Also, for what it's worth, my plan is to have ratlines on the topmast shrouds, and futtocks that can lead up to the topmast masttop (?), but I don't plan on having ratlines on the topgallant shrouds...that may change once I get to that point, however...if I think the model *looks* like it's missing them, I may go for it....but for my opinion, it seems like 50/50 that the SR had them or not....

DK

        _~
     _~ )_)_~
     )_))_))_)
     _!__!__!_         
     (_D_P_K_)
   ~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    ~~~~~~~~~~~

Current Project:  Imai/ERTL Spanish Galleon #2

Recently Finished: Revell 1/96 Cutty Sark

Next Up:  ???

 

  • Member since
    July 2013
Posted by steve5 on Thursday, April 28, 2016 2:48 PM

thank's dave I'm thinking along those lines , about the top galant shrouds , if you could spare a pic , it would be nice , I think i understand what you wrote .

steve5

 

  • Member since
    July 2014
  • From: Franklin Wi
Posted by Bakster on Thursday, April 28, 2016 3:23 PM

Hey Steve--it looks good..

  • Member since
    March 2012
  • From: Marysville, WA
Posted by David_K on Thursday, April 28, 2016 4:37 PM

You bet, Steve-

I just snapped a couple pics of my topgallant crosstree; I'll post them on my WIP right now....let me know if it helps...

And to clarify, my futtocks below the topgallant crosstree are .018, not .025.  FYI

Cheers,

Dave

        _~
     _~ )_)_~
     )_))_))_)
     _!__!__!_         
     (_D_P_K_)
   ~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    ~~~~~~~~~~~

Current Project:  Imai/ERTL Spanish Galleon #2

Recently Finished: Revell 1/96 Cutty Sark

Next Up:  ???

 

  • Member since
    April 2016
  • From: Russia, St.Peterburg
Posted by kirill4 on Thursday, April 28, 2016 5:34 PM

Good day,

Dear David,

today I've  Ð°ccidentally stumbled on this forum when looking for info abt SR plastic model(have box with this model on my shelf as well as plan to build it in somedaysBig Smile)...

and first I saw when I 've opened page of this forum,was your SR building report... I 've started to read it from first page ...Great and Wonderfull job You did!!! I' loved it very much! and also I found a lot of usefull relevant information in comments of our  colleagues...just perfect! 

Thanks to your and Steve building reports I have now very good source of information,how to build this model,and what kind of difficulties I could expect...

I would like to wish You and Steve All the Best and since now will try to follow yours SR building..( at least as soon as I will have opportunity to do this and have access to internet connection).

Big SmileGeeked

Kirill

 

 

  • Member since
    July 2013
Posted by steve5 on Friday, April 29, 2016 12:17 AM

cheer's steve

 

  • Member since
    July 2013
Posted by steve5 on Saturday, April 30, 2016 4:32 AM

dave are talking imperial or metric ??

 

  • Member since
    July 2013
Posted by steve5 on Saturday, April 30, 2016 5:54 PM

thank's kirill4 for the nice comment's just had a quick look at your spanish galleon , very nice indeed . can;t wait for you to start this build my friend .

steve5

 

  • Member since
    April 2016
  • From: Russia, St.Peterburg
Posted by kirill4 on Sunday, May 1, 2016 3:18 AM

Hi Steve,

thanks You had time to visit my shipyardBig Smile...presently we are busy with almost at the same ...stage... as I guess ,one of the complicated...SR has much more developed rigging compare to that simplified of galleon w/o bowsprit top mast...and I m very glad ,to have chance to watch Your and Dave buildings and learn more abt SR rigging...for me it will be (and it is) very usefull information...for the future my SR building...

All the Best!

Kirill

  • Member since
    March 2012
  • From: Marysville, WA
Posted by David_K on Sunday, May 1, 2016 10:19 AM

steve5

dave are talking imperial or metric ??

 

Sorry, I do tend to switch my units of measure!  Generally, for the rigging ropes and blocks I refer to US (inches), but for the deadeyes I've been calling out metric (mm)...that's probably because I converted some stuff at the beginning of my build, but not the deadeyes, and now I still refer to the deadeyes as 7, 5, or 3.5 (mm)....I'll try to remember to specify measurement units going forward so I don't confues anyone!  THX

If I WAS using metric for those particular lines, the .018  would equal 0.0007 inches!  Pretty tiny...maybe if I was rigging with spider silk!  lol

Dave

        _~
     _~ )_)_~
     )_))_))_)
     _!__!__!_         
     (_D_P_K_)
   ~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    ~~~~~~~~~~~

Current Project:  Imai/ERTL Spanish Galleon #2

Recently Finished: Revell 1/96 Cutty Sark

Next Up:  ???

 

  • Member since
    July 2013
Posted by steve5 on Sunday, May 1, 2016 3:08 PM

sorry I asked that dave , must have had a wine too many that night .

 

  • Member since
    July 2013
Posted by steve5 on Sunday, May 1, 2016 8:24 PM

all standing rigging is done for now , will have a spell and think about the top gallant shroud ratlines , I've done well over 2000 knot's , Ithink I'm ratlined out  " />

 

  • Member since
    July 2013
Posted by steve5 on Sunday, May 1, 2016 8:26 PM

 

  • Member since
    July 2013
Posted by steve5 on Sunday, May 1, 2016 8:46 PM

 

  • Member since
    July 2013
Posted by steve5 on Sunday, May 1, 2016 9:47 PM

I have a question for all the technical expert's out there , as I am about to start rigging the yard's . could someone tell me , do the block's for the buntlines etc. , go in front of the sail's or behind them , as I seen model's depicting both , to my mind they go behind is this correct

steve5

 

  • Member since
    July 2014
  • From: Franklin Wi
Posted by Bakster on Sunday, May 1, 2016 10:40 PM

Egads, Steve. That is a lot of knots. Nice work. Your ship is looking gorgeous!

  • Member since
    April 2016
  • From: Russia, St.Peterburg
Posted by kirill4 on Monday, May 2, 2016 12:57 AM

Hi Steve,

far not expert,butI could say, for buntlines particulary, in your case ,-in front of...on those part,which look fwrd...those,for clewlines and sheet blocks,where aplicable, behind...

good source for suchb things you can find on this contemporary model. of William Rex..similar rigging and period to your SR...

http://www.modelships.de/Museums_and_replicas/Rijksmuseum-Amsterdam/William-Rex.htm

All the best!

Kirill

http://www.modelships.de/Museums_and_replicas/museums_and_historic_ships.htm

  • Member since
    April 2016
  • From: Russia, St.Peterburg
Posted by kirill4 on Monday, May 2, 2016 1:15 AM

one more item,I would like to pay your attention, it is the way,how they manage sails ,in 17th centr.when need them to be folded...quite different way,compare to 18 th centr.

All the best!

Kirill

  • Member since
    April 2016
Posted by Staale S on Monday, May 2, 2016 3:35 AM

steve5

I have a question for all the technical expert's out there , as I am about to start rigging the yard's . could someone tell me , do the block's for the buntlines etc. , go in front of the sail's or behind them , as I seen model's depicting both , to my mind they go behind is this correct

Well, both! The sail is taken in with a variety of ropes, some of which go behind the sail (for example clewlines) and some in front. A good rigging book will give more detail, I am at work now so can't look it up.

 

  • Member since
    April 2016
  • From: Russia, St.Peterburg
Posted by kirill4 on Monday, May 2, 2016 9:27 AM

Hi Steve, have some questions, regarding arrangements of main and mizzen stays on french vessel of SR period ,and how kit maker settled this matter... As I understood, there was variation in french rigging compare to other continental europe rigging metod...english was quite different from europian at this time...so out of discussion... if look at model of William Rex ,with typical europe rigging arrangement

http://www.modelships.de/Museums_and_replicas/Rijksmuseum-Amsterdam/William-Rex.htm

... there are Fore and Main masts tye halliard knights placed slightly out of the masts central line... which gives opprtunity to keep tye halliards and their tackles clear from stays attached to the masts.... french arrangement is the same of the Fore mast, but different with Main mast,where tye halliard knight stay at the central line with Main mast... such pozition we could see on the drwngs in Colbert album, in reconstruction of Le Francois 1683 by J.Budriot

, and on the model of Le Louis Quinze 1715(this model, as I could understood, often positioned as typical of Louis 14 period,even in fact it belongs to 1715 ,reign of Louis 15)...

seems to avoid interfereing mizzen stay and Main mast halliards french did some special - their mizzen stay ended with spliced block, and than it keeps tight by means of rope runs trough this block and forms two bridles which secured at the both sides of the mast...this arrangement gives space for main mast tye halliard which could run verticaly from the mast top ... And I wonder, how kit maker settled this question,with location of F and Main mast halliard knight ?

All the Best!

Kirill

ps

could You pls advise,correct way,how to place posts...each time I try to place my post, I receive warning that it will be activated in 24 business hrs...not early... found it quite unconvinient... due to very slowly responds...some items which I would like to discuss, already passed by a few days, but I still don't see post with my question... or pls advise ,where to send this question?

thanks in advance...! :)

  • Member since
    April 2016
  • From: Russia, St.Peterburg
Posted by kirill4 on Monday, May 2, 2016 9:34 AM

Wow!

looks like it works now very fast!... sorry for such ugly appears of my previous post... looks I did smthng wrong that time...Embarrassed

  • Member since
    July 2013
Posted by steve5 on Monday, May 2, 2016 10:01 PM

thank's for all the information kirill4 , it will all come in very handy . and as for me helping you ,

I feel like a real novice here . your ability to research information is way ahead of me , I just cry help on this forum . and there are some amazingly talented model's on this forum , who are only too happy to help., you should fit in quite nicely here , from what I have seen of the spanish galleon , it is simply beautiful .

davidk's model is just grand , I don't think he is adding sail's , but his attention to detail is just stunning ,

steve5

 

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