hobby boss USS arizona 1/350 BB-39 [1941]

BB-35 USS Texas had started life with "casemated" 5"51 on the second deck.  They were fitted out with the metal shutters and portholes, as they backed up into various compartments.  I want to remember that they were as tin as 1/8", but that could be faulty memory.

They were not water-tight and a real source of annoyance.  So, spanning 4 separate refits, they were all moved up to the Main deck as part of the superstructure.

To my knowledge, once part of the "main castle" they do not appear to have ever had weather protection.  

There may have been provision for a canvas dodger, outboard, but I never saw a sign of it on any of my in-person visits.

All of which invites me to wonder about Arizona, built well afer Texas, and using lessons learned from previous ships.

CapnMac82

BB-35 USS Texas had started life with "casemated" 5"51 on the second deck.  They were fitted out with the metal shutters and portholes, as they backed up into various compartments.  I want to remember that they were as tin as 1/8", but that could be faulty memory.

They were not water-tight and a real source of annoyance.  So, spanning 4 separate refits, they were all moved up to the Main deck as part of the superstructure.

To my knowledge, once part of the "main castle" they do not appear to have ever had weather protection.  

There may have been provision for a canvas dodger, outboard, but I never saw a sign of it on any of my in-person visits.

All of which invites me to wonder about Arizona, built well afer Texas, and using lessons learned from previous ships. 

Actually, the Pennsylvanias were laid down only a couple of years after the Texases, but yes, they had the same casemated 5" guns mounted in positions below the main deck, and those were removed.  You're right-according to accounts from the crews, those stations were "very wet."  They were closed over and those guns were relocated to the deck house, one deck up.  The positions furthest forward and aft could still be seen, since the plating followed the old casemate shape.  The positions in between were just plated over, following the lines of the hull.

the Baron

Actually, the Pennsylvanias were laid down only a couple of years after the Texases ... The positions in between were just plated over, following the lines of the hull.

Funny you phrase it that way, the Class was called New York, despite Texas being laid down, and launched first.

The two Nevada's also informed the Pennsylvannia class construction.

The closed in forward casemate mounts on Texas were incorporated into Texas' Wardroom.  The port side of which was where one of the German 20cm shells fired at Normandy struck Texas, Jun 1944 (the other struck the pilothouse and inflicted casualties).

In looking at plans of Arizona, she's drawn to have segmented panels with 11.25" airports, describing partial arcs around each of the 5"51s.  But they were not round as the kit depicts.  The spaces areounf the guns were crew berthing in hammocks

Not sure which "look" would be harder to scratch.

what do you mean by "which look would be harder to scratch" as in pre 1929-31 modernization or post modernization?

Another point is that the gun mounts were closer to the outer bulkhead than they would appear to be in the model kits. In actuallity, those guns in the bow and stern could point directly fore or aft depending on their location. Now, of course, the mid ships 5"-51's could not.

Brian

got some more work done

Regarding the 5" 51's, perhaps the photos I resourced from the book, Battleship Arizona by Paul Stillwell can provide some clarification. 

Read the pictures note carefully

So the 5"-51 broadside guns had both a canvas curtain used during normal instances and a metal shutter system used in heavy weather situations. The canvas was a full curtain while the metal shutters had to be stored and bolted-in by multiple sections to seal against the rubber gaskets thus making it near water tight..

The metal shutters also had port hole windows while the canvas did not. I offer three suggestions for the broadside 5"-51's:

(1) If simulating the canvas cover perhaps you could use masking or painters tape and paint it the sun died lighter shade as shown in the photos. 

(2) If simulating the metal covers may I suggest light scribing of shutter lines and drilling of port hole windows.

(3) If you want to be real aggressive, you can remove the circular numbs on the deck and reconstruct the open gun casement with sheet plastic then purchase some 1/350 5"-51's from anohter source, example "Shapeways", or?

What ever you choose I'm sure it will come out nice. Keep up the great work, she is looking really good so far.

As for my 1/350 Arizona in the US GB thread, I chose to use the canvas cover method. There is too much more to correct and shape versus spending the time opening the broadside gun casements (IMHO). I must admit that the larger scale Arizona does look good showing those 5"-51's off in the open casement though....

v/r,

Ben

Here is a view of the rear 5” casemates after she was sunk

got the anchor chains in

Regarding how these gun emplacements are depicted, I think we still see some of the Revell kit's DNA.  That's how they choose to mold the pieces, as pills with a barrel sticking out.  I imagine that the photographic resources they used were only ones that showed the covers in place.

this PE is giving me fits , the straight bits I'm ok with the round stuff screws me up /

as I said the round stuff sucks

steve5

Sometimes it helps to anneal the brass by getting it really hot over a flame. Softens it up.

I am using the exact same Eduard PE set on my 1/350 USS Arizona. I found that the Eduard PE set is thicker than Toms Modelworks or other brands. The good of that is once they are shaped they are stronger and tend to stay the shape you bend them to. The bad of it is in several instances I also found it hard to bend them round or in arc's.

As GM states annealing the metal (brass) will make it easier to bend. I chose to use metal and wood dowels of various diameters to help me make the smooth circular shapes. First choose a diameter dowel slightly larger than the arc or circle you want to finish with. The trick is to keep the brass square with the dowel while wrapping it around it. The first attempt will take some of the temper out of the brass. Second I choose a dowel slightly smaller than the desired finish diameter. I find that it will most every time spring back just a little and almost to the exact diameter I want. Of course sometimes there is some fiddling, but the dowel or rod will help you keep the desired shape, even when fiddling or shaping.

If you do not have numerous diameter rod or dowel, look around for items like markers, pens, wire handles for utensils, etc. They will all do the same thing as the rod or dowel. The rest is just feel and practice, but I honestly found that they help me a lot.

Ben 

There is a reason;

       I found out that any model painted Sea Blue Flat or Semi-Gloss disappears to well on the desk and or shelf. I hadn't painted my client's ship when I did the D.E. U.S.S.Butler! Wel,l sad to say I put her away and it took me two months to find her. Sitting right where I left her. In the section of the shelving unit that was painted medium dark blue. She was 1/350 !

       When you paint a model for any reason remember these two words. Scale Effect!, if you remember that on ships, they will come out looking great! Another good fer-instance is the German Cruiser from W.W.1, that REVELL had. If you paint her as summer colors you have to add yellow to the right shade of tan to get the proper color topside. Same with the Oregon or Olympia! Plus those one or two drops of Flat White!

GMorrison

 

...

It's all my fault; I was repeating a stupid joke about how color wasn't invented until the late 19th Century because there is no photographic evidence to prove it. My bad.

 

 

I believe it was earlier in that century, and I have seen an image of the result.  It was done by a a famous English scientist, whose name escapes me now, and he used what is now known as the color seperation method.  He exposed three negatives of I believe it was a vase of flowers, each negative through a different color filter.  Then he made a transparency film of each frame, and projected light through them with a different color light to make a slide show type image.  Seems to me he later found a way to dye each positive and stack them.  It may have been Lord Rayleigh.

Only good for very stationary objects, of course.

i have to apologise for not finishing this build , it just didn't happen . so I had a go at the 1/200 build which I really enjoyed , probably because I stopped being a sook , and had a go at the PE . which I am slowly getting better at .