USS Langley: Breakthrough

Can't help on mast question, but NavSource does show a picture of her attention anchor with a plane still aft, and getting ready to land.

Granted, it was a bit before my time  .  .  . but it appears that the masts retract into the deck, periscope style. There is an obvious opening / hatch at the bottom of the mast. Similarly, the aircraft 'cageing' does the same per these shots;

I'm not surprised at the amount of PE. There was a large and complicated bridge structure forward, under the flight deck.

And that itself was a superstructure on the hull of the former coal tender (?).

It is strange that as such a trial donkey she ended up serving and being sunk in combat.

Did the kit come with Vought PE-7s?

Bill

Rocketman,

I'm a full hull guy and would not find air-ops on a full hull display at all off-putting.

You certainly will have your work cut out for you!
All that delicate, figgitty PE work under the deck, would try my patience and abilities.

If you pull it off she'll be a masterpiece of intricate PE eye candy.

Good luck! (and please keep us updated)

And I thought that the Wolverine was going to be a problem.

When flying, how did they control teh aircraft?  I don't see anything the even remotely looks like a island.  Did they just stand somewhere with a cart carrying a radio?

They would have an LSO, Landing Signal Officer, guiding the pilot in with hand held flags.  Common all the way through WWII and probably through Korea.  Think it's still a backup to today's light system.

LSO usually a rated pilot.

JoeSMG

Rocketman, I'm a full hull guy and would not find air-ops on a full hull display at all off-putting.

Bill

ikar01

When flying, how did they control teh aircraft?  I don't see anything the even remotely looks like a island.  Did they just stand somewhere with a cart carrying a radio?

Like all straight deck carriers, she could only conduct one type of flight ops at a time. The deck would be spotted for launching or recovery. Conning the ship and signalling are more important from an island due to height. Flight control ops was only a small portion of the island structure on later carriers. The yellow jerseys directors on deck controlled the movement, launching, and recovery. Radios were minimally involved. It was loudspeakers for the deck crew and hand & arm along with flag and paddle signals to direct the aircraft .

Okay, guys, I finally agree.  And I found pictures of models that were full hull with lots of planes on deck.  Engines not running but that was a little thing.  I think having a few engines running and one even moving will not shange the ascetics much.  I need to decide before I do much as I make a "build base" before I close up hull.  I use that when ship is done to match drill the display base.    Full hull- first step will be drilling holes for display pedestals.

Ok.  So on this carrier with no island, where did they hide the bridge?

just curious.

Bridge was under flight deck forward in the 1920's.

Keep in mind that if you are going to model the ship during her short career in WWII she was no longer an aircraft carrer. She was AV3 a seaplane tender and only had a flight deck only over the aft half of the ship.

amphib

Keep in mind that if you are going to model the ship during her short career in WWII she was no longer an aircraft carrer. She was AV3 a seaplane tender and only had a flight deck only over the aft half of the ship.

 

Fortunately the kit supplies planes of the pre-war era.  I love the yellow wing planes, and will build it for the era of the Curtiss and Martin birds.

goldhammer88

They would have an LSO, Landing Signal Officer, guiding the pilot in with hand held flags. Common all the way through WWII and probably through Korea. Think it's still a backup to today's light system. LSO usually a rated pilot.

Before the "yellow wing" era; a/c radios were hghly uncommon.  Voice radios were not terribly common in the yellow-wing era either. 

Aviators came frst, so there was a cadre of expereinced fully-fledged aviators to be LSO, when that notion appeared as a way to get less-experienced fliers aboard. 

Signal flags were likely used to communicated to groups of a/c while flying (whch likely explains why there's a mast through the deck).

LSO are stll in use today.  And are in place for every landing.  Holding a "pickle" which can over-ride the landing approace light system.  Every landing is also graded, and the futures of the aviators and their standings in the squadrons are based on those grades.  Which are publicly posted.  IIRC you have to have 2000 hours to even be considered for LSO school.

Yesterday I drilled holes through the hull for the mounting pedestals.  I cut two pedestels from 1/4 " acrylic rod.  I then glued wood with 17/64 into  holes on the bottom of the hull to reinforce the rods.  I then match drilled down through the hull into an MDF building base.  The rods are a nice press fit into both the hull and the base, so I will not glue them into place in the hull until later.  They will of course not be drilled into the working base.  As soon as I get the oak board for the display base I will match drill though those holes into the display base.  I also glued little wood tabs over the wood support blocks, so when I do insert the pedestals I will know when they are fully inserted, to make the pedestals equal length from the hull.

Neato! Next to mark the boot. There are a lot of really high quality photos on Navsource, if you've checked them out.

Even one with an autogyro on deck!

Bill

GMorrison

Neato! Next to mark the boot. There are a lot of really high quality photos on Navsource, if you've checked them out.

 

Even one with an autogyro on deck!

Yep, found some new pics there that did not show up in Google Images.  And have the block drilled for pencil to draw boot line, but ran out of time to scribe in.

I did get a coat of Tamiya fine primer last night.  The kit called out Testors light gull gray.  I fortunately have two bottles of that in my stash.  But it looks a little dark to me.  The primer looks just right for what I suspect it looked like.  I know it is hard to tell anything from a black and white photograph, but I have been doing B&W photography for about seventy years, and feel I am pretty good at determining shades of gray from them, so I will be using the primer for hull and deckhouse color.  It may be a little on the warm side, but it will be hard to prove me wrong.

 

 

 

Bill

 

Got the hull painted now.  Bottom is a Rustoleum satin red (not flat enough- thin coat of dullcoat over it).  Boot topping is Testors semi-gloss black, upper hull is the Tamiya primer.

All decks now in place.  Notice masking tape squares where girders will be glued to deck.  Will save a lot of scraping.  Still some details to quarterdeck needed before painting decks.

Don, is the model's forecastle deck parallel to the waterline or angled upwards to the bow?

ddp59

Don, is the model's forecastle deck parallel to the waterline or angled upwards to the bow?

 

There is some deck sheer, but very little.

Have you seen the build over on Model Shipwrights?  https://forums.kitmaker.net/t/seaplane-tender-uss-langley-av-3-1-350/11857/74  Some really impressive etchwork going on there.

Don, see if the bow sheer matches these plans.

AC-3 – USS Jupiter – Plans, 1913, Collier (later converted to USS Langley CV-1), https://www.hnsa.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/ac3.pdf

ikar01

...When flying, how did they control teh aircraft?  I don't see anything the even remotely looks like a island...

Well, remember that she was an experiment, as were most of her contemporaries, the "firsts" around the world.  At that time, I think more objections were raised about having anything sticking up out of her flight deck, than about having a raised control platform on the flight deck.  I think the question of an island was effectively settled by her early operations, and the answer carried forward to the Ranger's design.

This is a subject that I'd love to see someone bring out in injection-molded styrene in 1/700.  I know there was a resin kit of the Langley (Corsair Armada?) but I'd prefer styrene.  I've held out hope that Trumpeter would scale this one down to 1/700.

Got the deck painted, and now doing PE (from the kit, not the aftermarket stuff yet) on foredeck and quarterdeck.

I have some concerns about the optional PE (the flight deck support girders).  It looks like there is a lot of butt joints (but I am NOT going to solder them all), some at critical angles.  I am not confident of getting those angles correct when I glue those girders together.

I am making a jig with a piece of white cardboard and scrap wood.  I have measured the locations where that structure glues to main deck, and transferred marks to that jig.  But I am not confident of my transfer of measurements alone.  I am going to build up that structure with the kit plastic pieces.  They look like they have well- designed joints.  Then, I will place that structure over the jig to correlate my measurements and the plastic structure.  The jig will then help me keep alignment when building up the PE girder work.

rocketman2000

It looks like there is a lot of butt joints (but I am NOT going to solder them all),

I would suggest you rethink that.

Bill

I have scrapped the jig I was making- I found a better way to make sure the grid work matches up to the right alignment.  I taped the flight deck down to a scrap of wood, with the bottom side showing.  The molding of the deck clearly shows the right position where the girders go, with good precision.  I am gluing each girder or girder assembly to the spot where it goes.  There is lots of glue area on the brasswork where it attaches to the flight deck, so the assembly is getting strong (I also glue each girder to other ones).

The structure so far is looking pretty good.  The white streaks is where I used a bit too much accelerator.

ddp59

Don, see if the bow sheer matches these plans.

AC-3 – USS Jupiter – Plans, 1913, Collier (later converted to USS Langley CV-1), https://www.hnsa.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/ac3.pdf

 

Problem is, that angle is so small I do not have a good way to measure it accurately, especially with the junk on the deck.  It certainly looks appropriate.

I believe the instructions for the Trumpeter photo-etch optional package.  Each bay of the girder structure consists of two longitudinal girders between two transverse structures.  Many bays also contain one or two smaller transverse beams going between the longitudinal girders within the bay.  The PE instructions show fastening these little beams to the longitudinal  girders as the first step in doing that bay.

But, some bays also have some external additional sections  (four per bay) that are installed later to the inside and outside of the longitudinal girders.  And these cannot be installed to the inside face of those girders if these transverse girders are already installed!  I find I must build up the bay and put these pieces in first- do not install those transverse beams within the bay until after those longitudinal supports are applied.  These are the supports like C-5, C-9, etc.