USS Langley: Breakthrough

the Baron

This is a subject that I'd love to see someone bring out in injection-molded styrene in 1/700.  I know there was a resin kit of the Langley (Corsair Armada?) but I'd prefer styrene.  I've held out hope that Trumpeter would scale this one down to 1/700.

I believe it was Loose Cannon

Really nice work, Don.

EdGrune

 

 

the Baron

This is a subject that I'd love to see someone bring out in injection-molded styrene in 1/700.  I know there was a resin kit of the Langley (Corsair Armada?) but I'd prefer styrene.  I've held out hope that Trumpeter would scale this one down to 1/700.

 

 

 

I believe it was Loose Cannon

 

I find the PE work the most difficult I have ever done.  I shudder to thick of doing it half that size.  I would not use pe for girder work- stay with plastic girders in 1:700!

I am at a standstill, going nowhere.  There are PE patterns I am trying to glue in place, and going nowhere.  Here is a picture of one of these pieces.  The sheet is only .006, and the line widths are .016.  The temper is like semi hard or semi soft, sort of in-between.

Keeping the piece flat is almost impossible.  I have tried keeping the piece on the clear plastic backing while I glue it on.  Then trying to remove the backing after the glue sets distorts the piece terribly.  In fact the lightest touch bends, twists or curls parts.  Have you ever tried to shape a piece of Christmas tinsel foil?

The latest problem I am facing is when I do manage to get it in place the CA glue I am using will not adhere!  My theory is that in doing the handling to get it flat and in place I cannot do it all with tweezers.  This stuff is so thin that tweezers do not hold all that well, in spite of cleaning and resurfacing the ends frequently.  I think I am getting skin oil on the pieces, which is limiting the stickiness of the glue.  I am going to try using gloves- will test whether cotton or plastic will be best.  I am afraid cotton may stick to any glue spots and trying to tear it away will ruin the piece (no extras given).  I will also have a small bowl of lacquer thinner nearby and will soak each piece before applying.

I'm a complete amature with PE, most ends up flying off into space.  But perhaps something like this might help

Have you considered soldering?

Bill

GMorrison

Have you considered soldering? 

Bill 

GMorrison

Have you considered soldering?

 

Bill

 

Yes, I have considered it.  However, seems to me it would take three hands- one to hold piece in place, one to hold iron, and one to hold solder.  Maybe I could just tin the structure with a little bit of solder and not hold solder to the joint.

Other concern is that pieces are so small and light and have zilch thermal capacity I am not sure I could solder one joint without loosening a bunch of others.

rocketman2000

 

GMorrison

Have you considered soldering? 

Bill 

Yes, I have considered it.  However, seems to me it would take three hands- one to hold piece in place, one to hold iron, and one to hold solder.  Maybe I could just tin the structure with a little bit of solder and not hold solder to the joint...

Would one of those "third hand" tools like this one help?

https://www.micromark.com/Triple-Grip-Third-Hand

(Not an advertisement or endorsement of MicroMark, it was just the most convenient link I could find at the time. I have one of these, that I bought at a show.)

I know well the pain of PE, I've only done one model that was heavy on PE and after I finished it I was pretty sure I'd never do another.

Seemed like I could hold the CAed PE against the spot I wanted it for a minute and it would not take. But let it touch anything else for a fraction of a second and I'd end up ruining it trying to pry it apart, frustrating stuff. My go to fail was ruining the PE because it stuck to the tweasers, that happened a lot.

I'd say about 20% of the PE included never made it on the model...

I had the most success when using the least amount of CA possible. I did get a bit better with practice but I've never found working with PE enjoyable.

Perhaps compromise and use more of the kit where the PE is a real bear.

Hope it all works out!

Joe, I agree with the minimum amount of CA glue- I am using my needle tool and tip of toothpics.

I have a new idea.  The plastic pieces for those sections that are the same piece as the PE ones.  They are a bit thicker and wider, but still look reasonable. 

This the equivalent of these PE pieces.  They look like substantial battle damage!  I hope I can cut them off, or debond them without destroying the rest of the structure.

I am making progress however.  The rest of the PE is coming along- the rectangular structure is okay, the pieces are all rectangles with no little beams sticking out.

As you can see, I have glued in the elevator in the UP position, as I will be depicting the planes in flight operations.

rocketman2000

Joe, I agree with the minimum amount of CA glue- I am using my needle tool and tip of toothpics.

I have a new idea.  The plastic pieces for those sections that are the same piece as the PE ones.  They are a bit thicker and wider, but still look reasonable. 

...

Substituting the original kit pieces on failed PE (if they even existed) is exactly what I did. I too used a pin head to apply the least amount of CA possible - if it sets and aligns right, I may add a bit more CA (again with a pin head) for strength. I think your Langley will come out great, those pictures look excellent aside from the problematic sections and the replacements will look fine once painted.

Has anyone ever tried the UV-activated stuff on PE?  You would probably have to use some small clips (aligator clips) to hold the pieces in alignment while you hit it with the UV light, but the stuff is supposed to hold like gangbusters.  Plus it only activates when you hit it with the light, so you should be able to get your fingers and tweezers out of the way.

I have never used it, but I would certainly try it in these delicate areas that you are showing.  But then again, it may not work as well as I was told.

Just throwing ideas out there.

Bob

Luvspinball

Has anyone ever tried the UV-activated stuff on PE?  You would probably have to use some small clips (aligator clips) to hold the pieces in alignment while you hit it with the UV light, but the stuff is supposed to hold like gangbusters.  Plus it only activates when you hit it with the light, so you should be able to get your fingers and tweezers out of the way.

I have never used it, but I would certainly try it in these delicate areas that you are showing.  But then again, it may not work as well as I was told.

Just throwing ideas out there.

Bob

 

 

I do use the uv glue for other tasks, but for the PE in this set I have a tough time holding the parts in perfect position.  I need a glue that holds the piece while I release it.  Even a very slight twitch launches these super light pieces.  I was figuring that they may weigh less than a milligram, but I do not have a scale with that kind of sensitivity.

Don, touch base with ModelCrazy. He did the Akagi this year and it had similar girder work. Bet he can give you some direct insight on how he did it.

Don, I have some success with using a very thick CA, a small amount has holding power because of the hign viscosity, and it won't set until you hit it with accelerator.

jeaton01

Don, I have some success with using a very thick CA, a small amount has holding power because of the hign viscosity, and it won't set until you hit it with accelerator.

 

Yep, I use the gel stuff for most of the joints.  It does not stick those problem panels, however.  I assume the thickness and line widths are to blame.  The beams are 6 x 16 mill!

This seems to be confirmed when I started to remove the old pieces to replace them with the plastic ones.  I had been worried about damaging the sections I wanted to keep, the majority of the PE.  No problem- those mangled pieces  pulled right off with a slight tug!

I have now finished the main PE girders for the flight deck support structure.  I am discarding the PE web structure between the girder uprights, and replacing them with the kit's styrene webs.  They don't look that bad, and sure are easier to put in place.  They are more rigid and stay in a plane

I have made some homemade tools that are invaluable for folding and gluing the main square girders.  The wood L-shaped piece is sized to the ID of the girders.  After sanding smooth I rubbed beeswax on it so any glue that gets on it will not stick.  The other gadget glued to a board is one of the plastic kit girders with a piece of brass sheet glued to each side.  I bent the tops out a bit to create a slight fishmouth to make inserting the PE girders.  This piece squares up the cross section, and holds it while I glue the hinge seams.

This PE work is very stressing, so I have to take a lot of breaks.  During these breaks I have now began work on superstructure.

Even from a distance you can tell that girder system looks super well done!

lovely work don , I have this kit in my stash , your build will be invaluable to me mate .

TheMongoose

Even from a distance you can tell that girder system looks super well done!

 

And only from a distance

Don that looks awesome. It's almost sad but once you turn the deck rightside up and attach it to the hull 70% of you hard work will be extremely difficult to see, imperfections and masterful strokes alike. Are you planing to paint everything up and add all lower deck details before that? Can't imagin doing it afterwards is... doable.

Also attaching all those connecting points to the hull could be a bear! Any plans for that assault? I'm thinking no glue until it sits to your satisfaction and then apply glue in place using capillary action, pins, toothpicks, lots of patience and a little luck.

JoeSMG

Don that looks awesome. It's almost sad but once you turn the deck rightside up and attach it to the hull 70% of you hard work will be extremely difficult to see, imperfections and masterful strokes alike. Are you planing to paint everything up and add all lower deck details before that? Can't imagin doing it afterwards is... doable.

Also attaching all those connecting points to the hull could be a bear! Any plans for that assault? I'm thinking no glue until it sits to your satisfaction and then apply glue in place using capillary action, pins, toothpicks, lots of patience and a little luck.

 

I'll put it on tall support columns

I do realize attaching all those support columns to the main deck will be a tough job, but I still think it will be easier than gluing just the support structure to the deck the way the plans show.  Attaching it to the flight deck as I am doing will hopefully add to stiffness.  I think the PE girderwork will be very floppy, and bend like crazy.

BTW, learned a trick for working with small pieces of PE.  I had a hard time putting on small pieces without getting small amounts of glue on tweezers.  I now rub beeswax on the tips of the pliers periodically.  Wax prevents tweezers sticking to the piece even if glue gets on the tweezers.

Thank, skiphas.  Glad you posted.  I will check this out and see if there is any way I can correct this, since I have finished the girder work.

Have not worked on the Langley for several weeks.  Took some time off for a few weeks to modify my workbench, and clean up the shop, which is a major job.

That's a lot of metal Don,really looks great !!!

Amazing job. 

You're a braver man than me Don,  doing that PE.  

rocketman2000

Or- are they just stored willy-nilly wherever they can find a place? I know not many of you would have served on her, but does anyone know where they stowed those masts?

http://home.grandecom.net/~cvproj/cv01.htm

Strongeagle

 

 

 

rocketman2000

Or- are they just stored willy-nilly wherever they can find a place? I know not many of you would have served on her, but does anyone know where they stowed those masts?

 

I don't know where they stowed the masts, however I ran across a website (I've attached the link below) that reports the provisions made to convert the Jupiter to the Langley.  Among other requirements were "two removable masts fitted to the flight deck centerline."  Because the masts were an enumerated requirement, I suspect that there was some space actually engineered into the conversion to stow the masts.  Like yourself, I'm guessing it was somewhere in the hangar deck. My experience, in serving on two aircraft carriers, is that everthing gets put somewhere on the hangar deck.  You have a worthy project ahead of you, good luck.

http://home.grandecom.net/~cvproj/cv01.htm

 

Thank you very much.  I downloaded that very informative page.

BTW, shop cleanup is just about done.  Hope to have Langley on bench by Saturday.  Turns out I still have quite a bit of PE to do on the deck than I realized.  I think that time spent on cleanup was a good break to recover from previous PE effort.