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Any info on USS Arizona's pre or post WWI color schemas? Early 1900s?

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  • Member since
    April 2005
Posted by ddp59 on Sunday, March 17, 2024 1:45 PM

TB, how are you going the remove the blisters & fill in the voids resulting from the blisters removal? are you going to put the armor belt back on after fixing the hull like i did on my non-blister Tennessee?

  • Member since
    April 2005
Posted by ddp59 on Wednesday, March 20, 2024 1:50 PM

Joe, is that your current built model of the Arizona as your avatar?

  • Member since
    January 2021
Posted by JoeSMG on Friday, March 22, 2024 7:34 PM

Nope, that's actually a 1/450 scale USS Texas I 3d printed and assembled.
https://scalemodelguy.com/index.php/uss-texas-battleship-v2/

The 1917 Arizona 3D design is coming along well though I'm thinking It will be a devil to print, lots of filigree parts like the cage masts etc. Will likely take a few print efforts to dial in the thickness of things not to mention the fit onto the cutback Revell hull. The thickness of things typically ends up somewhere between reality and what will reliably print. Hopefully it will warm up soon, so I can try printing it and see what I end up with.

 

- Joe the SMG

  • Member since
    April 2005
Posted by ddp59 on Friday, March 22, 2024 8:22 PM

how fine of a print can you do as thinking about the cagemasts framework?

  • Member since
    September 2012
Posted by GMorrison on Friday, March 22, 2024 8:56 PM

Very curious how that 3D model will be created,

 

Bill

 Modeling is an excuse to buy books.

 

  • Member since
    January 2021
Posted by JoeSMG on Saturday, March 23, 2024 12:25 AM

In theory it can print details as small as .05mm but not structures - the cage masts are kind'a both, the many thin rods make up the structure but may be too weak to print the whole mast in one shot. I'll not be surprised if the first few attempts end up stuck to the bottom of the resin vat in a heap... If so, I can either thicken them which I would hate to do as they are already too thick, or I can slice the masts up vertically into smaller chunks then glue and stack them back together.

 

I still have hope that they will print in on piece. I've already thickened the rods well past scale but not so much that they are stupid looking (I hope) Will be an interesting test for the printer, an original Elegoo Saturn.

 

- Joe the SMG

  • Member since
    April 2005
Posted by ddp59 on Saturday, March 23, 2024 9:27 AM

do you have drawings for the cagemasts as i have some if you need?

  • Member since
    January 2021
Posted by JoeSMG on Saturday, March 23, 2024 10:16 AM

Thanks Dave, but at this point I'm committed to what I've done. I'm at the test print stage - just need warmer weather as I print in a shed...
I still want to add a bunch of minor parts but here's a picture of the current Blender render.
( color choices are not committed - just for looks J )

 

- Joe the SMG

  • Member since
    June 2021
Posted by gregoblv on Thursday, March 28, 2024 1:20 AM

CapnMac82

 

 
JoeSMG
This one again makes me ask what color are her turrets? I'm sure you are right about all the rest of her, that could easily be Standard Navy Gray #5 though it seems a little dark.

 

We run into the ever-present problem from period photos--they were taken and printed so as to render the best visual contrast the camera, filme, lighting, and the photographer could manage.  Which was further "cranked upon" when the negative was "exposed" to print the photo.

Now, poking an eyball on the Canal photo, a couple of reference items pop out.  Those would be the bloomers on the guns and the shade tarp over the forecastle.  Those appear to be an unpainted 'raw' canvas, which is going to be a very pale whitish gray.

That gives a place to start comparing the turret color.

This time frame encompasses when "Range Clocks" and "Formation firing" were still common doctrine.  So, there is the possibility that the "off side" of the turret have vertical stadia stripes on them in #5 or even Black

This is USS California for reference

Now, if those turrets are a lighter color is ajudgement call, that's a somewhat over-exposed photo.
And, here's USS Mississippi

It's odd that the documentation for the paint scheme is so scanty, as it appears to be pretty common, here's USS New York i nthe Canal

With the distinctly pale turrets.

Your Mileage May Vary

 

 

At the time of these photos the ships were painted all over the same color with the exception of the deck that was a bluish color over the teak they were made of.

As has been stated 'color' and 'shade' is a subjective matter with B&W photos, so the best you can do is look close and match shades with other parts of the ship. Also you must understand the shapes you are looking at and how they would affect the shade of the paint.  

First the sides of the Arizona's turrets were slanted a great deal. In fact all of the battleships turrets of the time were. That means they would catch more light and reflect it towards you eyes than the other parts of the ship. 

With these points noted, the photos of all three of these ships show the turrets as being lighter, but knowing they were all over the same color it would have to be the reflected light that made the so. In addition the pictures of the Mississippi and the New York seems to be very light, but the cutout 'deck' area at the casements has the same bright shade also and we must assume that it is painted the same color as the side of the ship which is much darker. So I would say that the turret is the same color as the rest of the ship.

As for the silver turrets I would say that was most likely an instructions issue, either on purpose(I have never seen that) or a goof(never seen that either). When many of these kits were originally made the manufacturers were not building them for scale modelers like us. They were made for kits to build and there was not many books that were available to those kids to tell them how the ships looked for real. I know I was there and my local library had nothing. 

As for the ventalators, I remember seeing color pictures of the 30's and they were a dark red or maroon on the inside.

But it is your model and you paint is as you see fit and ignore any old fart, or not so old fart, who says you are wrong. Just have fun.

I hope this has helped, 

Greg OB

  • Member since
    January 2021
Posted by JoeSMG on Friday, March 29, 2024 8:06 AM

Gregoblv thanks for the information. I'm on board with standard grey#5 for the hull, superstructure and yes the turrets Sad. But you mention two things that I haven't heard before, and I like - so I hope you're on to something.

1 The vent insides were still painted a red hue into the 30s

2 The deck was blue

Any ideas on the shade of blue? Sea blue or navy would be my guess. Also any thoughts on if the deck were only blue during WWI? Making it a wartime color choice?

Thanks for the information guys, please keep it coming if you've got any!

- Joe the SMG

  • Member since
    April 2005
Posted by ddp59 on Friday, March 29, 2024 9:43 AM

go thru this link http://www.navsource.org/archives/01/39a.htm as you'll see the decks are not blue as that is a ww2 thing because of aircraft that was not prevalent at sea during ww1.

  • Member since
    January 2021
Posted by JoeSMG on Friday, March 29, 2024 11:56 AM

Dang it Dave! I'm sure you're right... Makes sense that blue decks weren't a thing until airpower was. Looks like I'm destined to have a sedate battleship gray & teak model. Well at least there'll be some color below the waterline.

EDIT:
Ok - but... Check the below picture out - the superstructure decking around the tower bridge suporting the two 5 inch deck guns. It certainly looks darker and like it could be blue.

 

- Joe the SMG

  • Member since
    April 2005
Posted by ddp59 on Friday, March 29, 2024 1:21 PM

that might be something like linoleum on that deck giving the darker color.

  • Member since
    November 2005
  • From: Formerly Bryan, now Arlington, Texas
Posted by CapnMac82 on Friday, March 29, 2024 5:08 PM

ANd, USN was keen on a mid-brown linoleum on Signal bridge decks.

  • Member since
    January 2021
Posted by JoeSMG on Friday, March 29, 2024 10:50 PM

Great information, thank you again guys.

- Joe the SMG

  • Member since
    April 2005
Posted by ddp59 on Friday, March 29, 2024 11:14 PM

no problem.

  • Member since
    April 2005
Posted by ddp59 on Monday, April 1, 2024 9:45 AM

go thru this link about painting ww1 era US navy ships. https://www.subchaser.org/painting-and-cementing-vessels-usn

  • Member since
    November 2005
  • From: Formerly Bryan, now Arlington, Texas
Posted by CapnMac82 on Monday, April 1, 2024 10:58 AM

Not really the right time era, but this 1930 color image of USS Idaho & USS Texas was just too nice not to share:

  • Member since
    April 2005
Posted by ddp59 on Monday, April 1, 2024 11:13 AM

except it has been colorized so not true colors.

  • Member since
    January 2021
Posted by JoeSMG on Monday, April 1, 2024 5:17 PM

Man! so many popup adds I can barrely reply!

Great picture CaptainMac. Brings up yet another question: Anyone know what & when the colors on the cage masts were? The older shots from the teens look like they could be standard gray #5 but seem likely to be darker. In the latter pictures they look black or dark shade on blue.

- Joe the SMG

  • Member since
    April 2005
Posted by ddp59 on Monday, April 1, 2024 8:12 PM

that is why i use ie11 as no popup ads compared to google chrome.

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