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Conversion complete(this time for sure): USS Arizonas pre WWI

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  • Member since
    April 2005
Posted by ddp59 on Tuesday, May 28, 2024 8:06 AM

Joe, the ship still had the casement guns at the beginning of 1918.

http://navsource.org/archives/01/017/01newhome.jpg

http://www.navsource.org/archives/01/39a.htm

  • Member since
    January 2021
Posted by JoeSMG on Tuesday, May 28, 2024 9:35 AM

ddp59

Joe, the ship still had the casement guns at the beginning of 1918.

http://navsource.org/archives/01/017/01newhome.jpg

http://www.navsource.org/archives/01/39a.htm

 



I agree, but they were often closed
On the Revell kit they are there and closed, and while that was no doubt a permanent situation on the actual ship. IMO the look is the same or at least close enough, to the point where nothing I could change would be a cosmetic improvement.

- Joe the SMG

  • Member since
    January 2021
Posted by JoeSMG on Tuesday, May 28, 2024 11:26 AM

Thanks for the update TB - I was curious how work on your Arizona was coming along and if you'd go wood for the decks. I love the look but wood hate the work. Smile
Many modelers easily exceed my max available levels of patience and ability. Probably a big part of my attraction to 3D printing, short cut...

You're a singularly unique individual and I enjoy having you around and reading your posts and comments, I'm hoping you can keep the blasted Parkinson's at bay for as long as you care to and keep doing what you love.

- Joe the SMG

  • Member since
    April 2005
Posted by ddp59 on Tuesday, May 28, 2024 11:33 AM

i'm talking about the guns that where in those casements til sometime 1918,

  • Member since
    January 2021
Posted by JoeSMG on Tuesday, May 28, 2024 12:48 PM

Nope - No guns for those casements on my Arizona.

- Joe the SMG

  • Member since
    January 2021
Posted by JoeSMG on Tuesday, May 28, 2024 12:57 PM

I may choose to represent them as seen bellow, but definitely won’t be opening up the casements.

 

- Joe the SMG

  • Member since
    October 2019
  • From: New Braunfels, Texas
Posted by Tanker-Builder on Tuesday, May 28, 2024 6:23 PM

Hi Joe!

        Surprisingly there's good news wrapped up in this.The Doctor says in that it's assailed me so late in life, I won't have to deal with a lot of the other problems.

         Now here's the Kicker. When I am working on such things as the Arizona/Missouri planking I don't shake at all. Well, I cheat too! There are positions I can put the hands in that stabilizes them so's I can still model and if you wanna believe it, Paint a fairly straight Waterline without tape.

       It seems that my Movement  is engulfed in a period of  neural Blankness.This allows me to do things Like 1/350 P.E. Such as the "SOYA Third Corps."( Hasegawa) Man, talk about extra fine! Oy!  Some of the moldings are that small too!

     Arizona Update. Lookit the photo(The last one) very close. You can see the light playing games with the light on the various angles of the Turrets. Maybe that's where some of the confusion about their color is coming from?

          

  • Member since
    January 2021
Posted by JoeSMG on Wednesday, May 29, 2024 12:16 PM

TB, it’s good to hear you've got coping mechanisms to allow you to keep doing what you love. With me, it’ll likely be my sight that takes me out of model building, I’ve got the beginnings of something that looks a lot like macular degeneration going on… (explains a lot right?!) You never know though, something else may come up from behind and steal the win! The golden years are fun that way.

 With any luck we'll both be doing this long after we run out of shelve space.

 Speaking of no shelve space, I finished most of the major construction on the Revell Uss Arizona 1917 conversion. l still want to shave off the port holes and add the gun barrels to the bow and stern casemates. Thought it should be done towards the end of construction as I’d be chronically snapping them off with handling otherwise.

Shout out to Dave for guilting me into adding them!
I needed the prodding, I tend to be a lazy modeler otherwise…



Hopefully the painting will go smoothly and I do want to do some minimal rigging. I like the looks of the parallel horizontally run lines separated by suspended rods, that this era of US dreadnoughts had.

 

- Joe the SMG

  • Member since
    October 2019
  • From: New Braunfels, Texas
Posted by Tanker-Builder on Wednesday, May 29, 2024 12:45 PM

Hi Again Joe!

        yeah, These young un's don't know how stubborn, we older(Read, More experienced) modelers can be.I have a feeling you and I will be around for Roll Call for sure! Now as far as the modeling, I do have to take some time off, like three or four days at a time, But I get other stuff done that needs my attention!

       I am diving back in tomorrow to Decal the 'Severn" I am putting a dark blue wash on her today. I do hope it's dry by tomorrow afternoon. Those Decals are gorgeous. Gosh, I wish I could send photos from my phone here! i keep my phome on my bench for talks with my son. He is back to work part time and sounds happier! So he'll start doing his R.C. and Armor stuff again!

  • Member since
    April 2005
Posted by ddp59 on Wednesday, May 29, 2024 12:53 PM

being older does not mean more experienced as i have seen older modelers leave exposed seams on their models that experienced would not leave. i'm almost 65.

Joe, how does someone register onto your site so i can send pictures of the non-bulged Tennessee using an Arizona hull? are you going to paint that model?

  • Member since
    January 2021
Posted by JoeSMG on Wednesday, May 29, 2024 1:34 PM

Hi Dave, I plan to paint her in good old boring Standard #5 gray, you won that debate hands down... and I had such high hopes for a more colorful palate. And while I appreciate your help, I'm drawing a line in the sand with removing her torpedo bulges! Especially now that the top works are done. So please, for the love of God! Stand down on removing them blasted torpedo bulges! It ain't going to happen brother! Smile

 

I am definitely one of them older, unexperienced modelers of which you speak - and I like it that way! Less stress.

 

- Joe the SMG

  • Member since
    April 2005
Posted by ddp59 on Wednesday, May 29, 2024 1:56 PM

i just want to show you how i did it for future refence as knew once you glued the "new" upper deck, you were not going to remove the "wannabe" bulges.

did you print the "full" 5" 51cal guns for the midship casements or just the gun barrels like you are going to do to the bow & stern casement guns?

  • Member since
    January 2021
Posted by JoeSMG on Wednesday, May 29, 2024 4:46 PM

If I thought I could have removed the bulge’s and it would have looked at least as good as if I hadn't tried, I'd have considered it. I've had mixed results with this type of surgery, with more bad then good. After the nine failed deck prints I lost much of my initial enthusiasm for the project (I really, really hate having to clean out the vat after failed prints). Still not sure what that's about.

 

Anyway all that said, here are a couple curated post primer pictures.

 



BTW: the casemated guns are all there, not that anyone will ever see them, they look like the raised pair flanking the bridge.

- Joe the SMG

  • Member since
    April 2005
Posted by ddp59 on Wednesday, May 29, 2024 6:52 PM

is that a primer coat or the finish coat on the model? does your 5-inch/51 Caliber Guns look like this?

https://www.3dmodelparts.com/1-426-5-inch-51-caliber-guns-8-pcs/

if i had a 3d printer, i would only use it for small repetitive parts that i did not want to spend the time to make as decks & structures would be made from sheet styrene. my Tennessee model was the 1st time i did surgery to remove the bulges & i so like what i did that i will do the same to the airfix 1/600 scale Suffolk & Belfast to do the other County & Town class cruisers.

  • Member since
    January 2021
Posted by JoeSMG on Wednesday, May 29, 2024 7:14 PM

That's the gun I modeled but mine is way more stripped down. With small details there are two ways a designer can go, make the small details slightly larger allowing them to be present and consistently printed or omit them.

 

This is more critical with inexpensive home printers.

 

- Joe the SMG

  • Member since
    April 2005
Posted by ddp59 on Wednesday, May 29, 2024 7:33 PM

i got about 50+ of those guns from that link for my OBB project.

  • Member since
    January 2021
Posted by JoeSMG on Wednesday, June 5, 2024 6:36 PM

Getting close to complete. I'd like to print the AA gun platform and guns for the stern superfiring turret and a 2 pairs of davits to flank it and a few other tiny bits. Then the rigging and then figure out how I'll mount her.

I've been trying to use as many of the Revell kit parts as I can, even though some, like the motor launch are overly simplified. I'll likely end up using the Revell stands too.

- Joe the SMG

  • Member since
    April 2005
Posted by ddp59 on Wednesday, June 5, 2024 7:02 PM

compare the makeup of the cagemasts in this link http://navsource.org/archives/01/039/013906a.jpg to yours.

http://www.navsource.org/archives/01/39a.htm

  • Member since
    January 2021
Posted by JoeSMG on Wednesday, June 5, 2024 10:01 PM

Dave your link is of Arizona in Dec of 1918, I've been modeling her pre war 1917 configuration.

 

- Joe the SMG

  • Member since
    April 2005
Posted by ddp59 on Wednesday, June 5, 2024 11:41 PM

you did not understand my post & link. look at the platforms partway up as they are not at the same level compared to your model.

  • Member since
    January 2021
Posted by JoeSMG on Thursday, June 6, 2024 12:09 AM

Dang I see what your saying. On the actual Arizona, hight of the searchlight platforms is the same relative to the base of the cagemasts, not their tops. Good catch, the design will be easy enough to change, not so much the model. Oh well, wasn't in love with the V1 cagemasts anyway, now I've a good excuse to replace them.

- Joe the SMG

  • Member since
    April 2005
Posted by ddp59 on Thursday, June 6, 2024 9:38 AM

only need to replace the mainmast if the foremast is correct.

  • Member since
    January 2021
Posted by JoeSMG on Thursday, June 6, 2024 10:29 AM

 Post Dave's blueprint Edits are in bold italic - needed to correct myself...

They are both incorrect in different ways. It was actually an interesting problem, and everything made sense once I looked at the issue from a construction point of view instead of a software POV.

 

In software it was easiest to first complete the main mast, then copy it and cut off from the bottom the forecastle height, this resulted in the searchlight platforms being the same diameter and size. Unfortunately this also puts them at the same height on both masts. Creating the masts this way also meant the forward mast had a slightly smaller base diameter, as the masts tapper with height and I had taken the height difference off from the bottom. -Based on the bluprints the foremast actually did have a smaller diameter base

 

Thinking from a construction POV, the builders no doubt started with two identical bases and searchlight platforms - Incorrect, the vertical rods were just shorter for the foremast. This fixes everything -Haha!; the bases and platforms are now the same sizes and the platforms are necessarily higher on the forward mast as their positions are relative to their bases -They are actually higher than just the deck hieght offset.

 

So they both got’a go -This is still true :).

 

There is a bright side – the searchlight platform supports on the v1 cagemasts were designed too thin and failed to print, the platforms as a result, are warped upwards {a bit) as they extend from the center. The platform supports I added by hand to fix their absence are kind of clunky, so I’m hoping I can print better replacements that fix all their major issues -Also still true.

 

- Joe the SMG

  • Member since
    April 2005
Posted by ddp59 on Thursday, June 6, 2024 10:49 AM

were are you going to put the aa guns as none shown on her pre-ww 1 picture you posted yesterday, just a platflorm on turret 3 top but no guns shown?

  • Member since
    January 2021
Posted by JoeSMG on Thursday, June 6, 2024 12:01 PM

ddp59

 

 were are you going to put the aa guns as none shown on her pre-ww 1 picture you posted yesterday, just a platflorm on turret 3 top but no guns shown?

 

 

 

 I'm torn on that, the picture I posted is as commissioned but the guns must have been planned and added shortly after, seems daft to put that platform there otherwise.

 

 Also my explanation in my earlier post sounds reasonable but is likely wrong. I've been measuring the two searchlight platforms in various early pictures and the mainmast's platform seems to be consistantly larger. Also the canvas band is definitely closer to its searchlight platform on the mainmast. so that too must have differed in size.

 

 I will definitely spend more time on research this time, it is fun work and I certainly don't want to reprint these things over and over. It does tick me off that I didn't notice these issues earlier. I think it has a lot to do with not modeling the whole ship. These details would have been easy to spot had I had a profile picture of Arizona in the background of my Blender editor like I normally would when modeling an entire ship.

 

- Joe the SMG

  • Member since
    April 2005
Posted by ddp59 on Thursday, June 6, 2024 1:20 PM

even tho it is a 1927 version Pennsylvania, is still cagemast so might have useful info as they were sister ships.

BB-38 USS Pennsylvania Booklet of General Plans (1927) https://archive.org/details/bb38bogp1927

 

  • Member since
    January 2021
Posted by JoeSMG on Thursday, June 6, 2024 1:25 PM

Those plans are amazing. Now I want to make the whole ship!

Thank you

- Joe the SMG

  • Member since
    April 2005
Posted by ddp59 on Thursday, June 6, 2024 2:50 PM

no problem. also those 2 metal panels in the deck on either side of turret 3 are wood covered not bare metal just like the rest of the upper & main decks are wood covered.

  • Member since
    January 2021
Posted by JoeSMG on Wednesday, June 12, 2024 2:56 PM

OK, Got everything I wanted reprinted or added printed... Got everything i wanted removed, removed. Got everything I damaged removing things, repaired. But I just couldn't bring myself to do the rigging - So she's done, for now anyway. Thanks everyone for your input and interest. A special thank you to Dave for his quick information and relentless efforts to keep me honest.

One more thing I wanted to mention, Dave I saw your message about the wood covering the Turbine access panels on the main deck and did some research on it.

Results online are almost evenly split but I do think you are correct, so I painted them the deck color. Didn't like the looks of it though, it just looked off being all raised and non-wood grained so before it had time to set I wiped them back to gray. To paraphrase Billy Chrystal: "It is better to look good than to be accurate" Thanks for the info though.

- Joe the SMG

  • Member since
    April 2005
Posted by ddp59 on Wednesday, June 12, 2024 3:37 PM

no shot of the main deck? the wood covering those panels would be flush with the rest of the deck. have a read of this.

http://www.shipmodels.info/mws_forum/viewtopic.php?f=47&t=12942&start=2520

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