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Cutty sark disaster

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  • Member since
    November 2003
  • From: Exeter, MO
Posted by kustommodeler1 on Tuesday, May 22, 2007 6:27 AM
She's gonna recover. Gotta keep hope. I'm apalled at the thought that someone would torch a national treasure, if it turns out to be arson as has been thought.

Darrin

Setting new standards for painfully slow buildsDead

  • Member since
    May 2006
  • From: Chapin, South Carolina
Posted by Shipwreck on Tuesday, May 22, 2007 6:00 AM
I have spent a lot of time studying the Cutty Sark over the past year, and continue to do so. I have two Revell Cutty Sarks on my work bench. By now this ship is growing on me. As we bemoan this destruction, we have the promise from the head of the Cutty Sark Society that she will be rebuilt, and will be better than before.

But, in my opinion, such a diaster to a remanant of history pales to the daily disasters that are occurring every day where people can not live in any semblance of peace and security, where people are needlessly killed. Lives will be needlessly snuffed out today, that cannot be restored. Some people have priorities that do not permit them to be concerned about historic relics. If the total destruction of the Cutty Sark were the worst thing to ever happen in this world, we would have much to be thankful for.

On the Bench:

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  • Member since
    February 2003
Posted by shannonman on Tuesday, May 22, 2007 5:48 AM

If you log on to ,

 www.dailymail.co.uk

go to the news section and you will find pic's of the damage.

 

"Follow me who can" Captain Philip Broke. H.M.S. Shannon 1st June 1813.
  • Member since
    January 2006
  • From: istanbul/Turkey
Posted by kapudan_emir_effendi on Tuesday, May 22, 2007 5:35 AM
More than anything else, seeing some people commenting as "come on, it's just an old boat" in the BBC website makes me sick. What kind of a society did we become ? Cutty Sark is a technological marvel, a feat of marine engineering that unites old and new. She is the witness of a better world, times of the last great seamen who traveled the seven seas; without those fCensored [censored]g GPS, wireless etc. like junk which distorted and corrupted seamanship to a kind of office work. In this sense, Jayman is quite right, Cutty Sark fairly surpasses being a british national treasure but is an heirloom to all humanity. My mind refuses to believe that the fire was the work of arsonists; what kind of a patological brain can think about vandalising a world culture heritage ?? SoapBox [soapbox] I say again, whatever the cost the old lady must be restored to her former glory and we must do whatever we can to help her .
Don't surrender the ship !
MJH
  • Member since
    April 2005
  • From: Melbourne, Australia
Posted by MJH on Tuesday, May 22, 2007 12:01 AM

That last comment is of course true, sort of a 'Grandfather's Axe' situation - two new heads and three new handles....

Nonetheless, for the various original parts to have lasted this long only to be reduced to ash at the whim of some irresponsible young prat is akin to the Taliban's destruction of the Buddhas, a loss to us all. 

<>I would hope that local businesses which profit from the tourist trade attracted by CS would dig deep also, after all it's in their own interests.

Sadly I can't see much help forthcoming from the government - the record of British governments (of both stripes) in the area of preservation, whether it be ships, buildings, railway engines, aircraft or whatever, has been little short of lamentable.  

Michael 

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  • Member since
    February 2003
  • From: Tacoma WA
Posted by gjek on Monday, May 21, 2007 11:38 PM
You know things are bad when your wife hunts you down to tell the bad news about a ship. I to was shocked by the news of the fire. The burned timber and wood is replaceable if you can find the quality materials. I worry about the iron and metal. Fire softens the metal and drastically increases issues with oxidation. I don't know if the "restoration" group is prepaired to replace a hull. jtilley mentions the sentimental loss that occurs when parts of the ship have to be replaced. I partly agree with that but I look at it differently. If she had been kept in service until now, how many of her original pieces would still be present? I just hope after she is rebuilt, and I hope she is, that she will last another 100 years.
Msgt USMC Ret M48, M60A1, M1A1
  • Member since
    May 2003
  • From: Greenville, NC
Posted by jtilley on Monday, May 21, 2007 10:43 PM

I haven't seen any of the TV coverage, but I've logged onto several websites that have pictures of the damage.  There's nothing good to be said about this situation, but I'm not quite as pessimistic as Jayman.  Apparently at least fifty percent of the ship's fabric had already been removed - including the main deck planking (though one overhead photo seems to show the forecastle deck - which appears to be more-or-less intact).  In the photos I've seen, the iron frames and deck beams don't seem to be obviously distorted - but, as Jayman points out, their structural integrity may have been adversely affected even if they aren't visibly bent.  (On the other hand, since the ship is permanently drydocked those members will never have to withstand all the stresses that similar components of an operating sailing vessel would.) 

As I understand it, the current restoration project was expected to take about four years.  The administrators, who are trying mightily to put a bold face on the situation, seem to think this tragedy won't add a great deal to that period.  But I won't be surprised if the whole job does indeed take ten years.  Such things tend to get more complicated, and time consuming, as they're investigated more thoroughly.

I've wondered about the insurance situation too.  I have no idea how such things work, but as I understand it the ship is owned by a private trust, rather than the government.  I do hope there is a good insurance policy - but it's not unknown for such institutions to operate without insurance.  The ship's website is seeking donations.  Maybe the vast publicity this tragedy is getting will cause ship lovers all over the world to open their pocketbooks.  I certainly hope so.

I do wonder about the sprinkler system.  I had the impression that she had a pretty sophisticated one.  (I think I remember looking at the sprinkler heads the last time I visited her - which admittedly was about ten years ago, and my memory for such things is hardly reliable.)  I wonder if the feed lines for the sprinklers had been temporarily disconnected as part of the restoration project.

One point that doesn't seem to be getting much attention yet.  I gather there's some suspicion of arson.  I don't suggest that this question deserves as much attention as the fate of the ship does - but what kind of warped individual would do such a thing?

I'm fairly confident that the good people in charge of this project will, eventually, restore the ship to the point where she looks as good as ever.  But she'll never be quite the same.  The Cutty Sark was unusual in that, during the period when I've been visiting her (I first saw her in 1978), almost all of her fabric has been original.  I watched the teak main deck planking getting replaced with a cheaper, Asian substitute back in '78, and I know many of the spars had been replaced long before that.  And in '97 some workmen were replacing some individual hull planks, largely because water had seeped in where the iron bulwark plating joined the wood planks.  And of course the Muntz metal hull sheathing isn't original.  But when you stood in her hold you were, to all intents and purposes, surrounded by the same ship that sailed to China and Australia.  (Such ships as the Constitution and the Victory, by contrast, have been restored so many times, and so much of their original fabric has been replaced, that they are, in many major respects, reconstructions of the original artifacts.)  There's no doubt whatever that the current major restoration of the Cutty Sark was absolutely necessary to the old lady's survival - and I guess a certain percentage of her components would have had to be sacrificed even if the fire hadn't happened.  But what a disgusting, tragic development this is.

Youth, talent, hard work, and enthusiasm are no match for old age and treachery.

  • Member since
    April 2007
  • From: Fort Lauderdale
Posted by jayman1 on Monday, May 21, 2007 9:03 PM

The Cutty Sark is a national treasure of Great Britan. But it is more than that. In a sense, Great Britain is the caretaker of this vessel for the rest of the world.

 I watched the news broadcasts like everyone else. I do not see how the iron frames could have gone through this fire with no compromise of the structural strength of the members.

Probably the biggest factor to the survival of the vessel is the insurance (or lack thereof) on the vessel. Such insurance is generally available. However, the uniqueness of the vessel  would dampen the appetite of a number of insurers. On the other hand, at least one or more Lloyd's syndicates could - or should - be pursuaded (or shamed) into offering coverage. Time will tell.

 Assume that the restoration is fully funded. (Translated-fully funded means someone is willing to pay for it.) I would not be surprised if the restoration would take 5 to 10 years. And, if it is not funded (paid for), then we have seen the last of  one of the most beautiful sailing ships ever it grace the seas.

No matter, it is not good. I saw the pictures. I saw the talking head  saying that the damage was mostly superficial. Sorry, I'm not seeing what your saying.

MJH
  • Member since
    April 2005
  • From: Melbourne, Australia
Posted by MJH on Monday, May 21, 2007 8:44 PM
There is a temptation to say, as people often do at such times, that we're lucky it wasn't worse.  In my view, if we were "lucky", it wouldn't have happened at all!

I can't look at the photos of the damage - perhaps later.  I was just so horrified when I heard the news on Sunday evening, especially as I didn't know CS had been partially dismantled for the restoration work - had she been complete I'm sure it would indeed have been a lot worse. 

The most disturbing aspect to it all is the possibility the fire was a deliberate act of vandalism; the thinking (or lack of it) behind such an act defies logic.

I, too, hope Victory is better protected.  Fire is perhaps the only greater threat to these vessels than bureaucracy.....

Michael 

!

  • Member since
    February 2006
  • From: Boston
Posted by Wilbur Wright on Monday, May 21, 2007 8:33 PM
Horrible news.........the bright side is the fittings were removed and the Trust has millions of pounds to go forward, and probably more coming from the government because of this.
  • Member since
    April 2004
Posted by Chuck Fan on Monday, May 21, 2007 8:02 PM

Revell's Cutty Sark is the first sailing shop model I ever built.   In my opinion she is still the most beautiful ship of any kind to ever have sailed the high seas.    I had a chance to visit her last September, before she was derigged for the present restroation.   Perhaps there is a silver lining in the dark smoke.   It was said that Cutty Sark's structure was in such poor shape that she was in danger of collapsing under her own weight right inside the dry dock.   Perhaps the fire damage would afford her a chance at full restoration, and not just a cosmetic makeover has having blighted so many historic ships around the world.  

The objective of the restoration should not be to make her fit to sail again! 

 

PS, I hope the Victory has more sprinkers and fire alarms than the Cutty Sark.

 

  • Member since
    January 2007
  • From: london, england
Posted by CANDYFLIP on Monday, May 21, 2007 6:39 PM

She's a national treasure, and as i live less than 20 min's from her, and have done all my life it's sad, took a walk down today, asked about and was told that the iron frame is not badly damage, and most of the ship is at chatham dockyards being restored! so it looks like she can be put right.

ian.

`if i should die, think only this of me/that there's some corner of a foreign field/that is for ever england.
  • Member since
    January 2006
  • From: istanbul/Turkey
Posted by kapudan_emir_effendi on Monday, May 21, 2007 6:33 PM
When I first read the news, something is broken inside me Boohoo [BH] For my part, I refuse to yield to the force of nature ! I will do anything to help the old lady and I start just now by donating !
Don't surrender the ship !
  • Member since
    January 2003
  • From: Barrow in Furness, Cumbria, UK.
Posted by davros on Monday, May 21, 2007 3:30 PM
I just hope the heat of the fire didn't warp or damage the wrought iron frame of the ship. If it hasn't; that should make it easier to rebuild.
  • Member since
    February 2007
Posted by skypirate1 on Monday, May 21, 2007 3:15 PM

I could not believe what i was seeing on the news today, absolutely gutted. I was planning on finaly taking a trip to see her this summer with the kids. Lived in London all my life and never got round to going. Atleast those that did see her can say they saw her in all her original splendor and glory.

Andy

While the rest of the crew may be in the same predicament, it's almost always the pilot's job to arrive at the crash site first.
  • Member since
    May 2006
  • From: Chapin, South Carolina
Posted by Shipwreck on Monday, May 21, 2007 12:54 PM
Shalom List Members,

If you love the Cutty Sark, it is time to pull out your credit cards or checkbook. And it is promised that she will be better than ever.

And you may want to follow this event on http://news.bbc.co.uk/

On the Bench:

Revell 1/96 USS Constitution - rigging

Revell 1/48 B-1B Lancer Prep and research

Trumpeter 1/350 USS Hornet CV-8 Prep and research

 

 

 

  • Member since
    January 2005
  • From: Ohio
Posted by mikepowers on Monday, May 21, 2007 12:02 PM

I know this has to be disturbing for you jtilley.

You have been answering every question about the CS since I have been on this site.

I feel sick.

Mike

  • Member since
    May 2003
  • From: Greenville, NC
Posted by jtilley on Monday, May 21, 2007 11:43 AM
It's hard to think of anything to say about such a tragedy.  It seems, at least, that nobody was killed or injured.  And apparently many of the ship's major components had already been removed and were literally miles away when the fire broke out.  So things could have been worse.  But what a terrible tragedy for all ship lovers.

Youth, talent, hard work, and enthusiasm are no match for old age and treachery.

  • Member since
    March 2004
Posted by Gerarddm on Monday, May 21, 2007 9:55 AM
Omigod, what a horrible way for me to wake up this AM. The photo on the front page of the NY Times web site just made me sick. Terrible, terrible,terrible.
Gerard> WA State Current: 1/700 What-If Railgun Battlecruiser 1/700 Admiralty COURAGEOUS battlecruiser
  • Member since
    December 2003
  • From: 37deg 40.13' N 95deg 29.10'W
Posted by scottrc on Monday, May 21, 2007 9:37 AM

Fortunatly, the ship was already gutted for restoration and the fire vented outward.  By looking at teh latest photos, much of the damage is done to the surface timbers and much of the hull is still in tact.

It could have been much worse if this fire was started when the ship was fully fitted out.

  • Member since
    June 2006
  • From: Netherlands
Posted by Grem56 on Monday, May 21, 2007 8:09 AM

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/london/6675381.stm

Read it and weep.(Oops, link was already posted I now see).

Julian

 

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  • From: On the way to AC+793888
Cutty sark disaster
Posted by lolok on Monday, May 21, 2007 3:17 AM

 bad bad news.... 5am this morning the CUTTY SARK was hit by a disastrous fire..The ship is undergoing a multi-million pound restoration to return her to her original as possible appearance.

            Just hope the damage is not as bad as it looks Boohoo [BH]

Jim Ryan Ex-Pat Limey in warsaw.Poland. " MENE,MENE,TEKEL U PHARSIN"
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