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ATTENTION SAILING SHIP MODELERS!

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  • Member since
    February 2008
  • From: San Bernardino, CA
Posted by enemeink on Monday, May 19, 2008 2:50 PM
being new to Ship modeling I already feel that some options are limited. as i stated in the Jolly Roger a.k.a. La Flore thread that it's ironic that wooden ship kits offer more selection but cost 10-20 times as much. I intend on sending an email to airfix along with pics of my Wasa that i finished last night (except the flags) to express my feelings on the situation. It's a shot in the dark but you never know.
"The race for quality has no finish line, so technically it's more like a death march."
  • Member since
    September 2005
  • From: Groton, CT
Posted by warshipguy on Monday, May 19, 2008 12:17 PM

There is a nice selection of photos of the Mayflower by Trumpeter (1/60 scale) on moduni.com website. There are also 2 reviews of this kit but they are apparently in German.

Bill Morrison

  • Member since
    September 2005
  • From: Groton, CT
Posted by warshipguy on Wednesday, May 14, 2008 10:51 AM

Here is a copy of the letter that I sent to Hornby Hobbies.   

I have been a long-time fan of Airfix products, particularly their ship model kits. As a student of naval history, I have always been interested in the British Royal Navy and love modelling its ships. However, I fear that Airfix kits are being left behind by other manufacturers and their newer and higher standards of detail. Additionally, Airfix has not released any new ship model products beyond simply repackaging Heller kits. Therefore, I have several recommendations for you as the owners of the Airfix label.

First, I would love to see a new line of Airfix 1/700 scale and 1/350 scale warships, particularly those of the Royal Navy and the Italian Navy. This would serve to bring the company in line with contemporary standards of scale and fill a a huge void in available products. Witness the huge successes of Trumpeter and Dragon to see the financial success such a move could be.

Second, I would love to see an expanded line of sailing ship kits, particularly of the Royal Navy during the Napoleonic Wars. Perhaps Airfix can initiate a new line of 1/96 or 1/100 scale ships to complement the excellent Heller HMS Victory and Soleil Royale as well as the excellent offerings by Revell. Certainly a series of those ships commanded by or serving as flagship for Horatio Nelson would raise significant consumer interest in any reasonably sized scale such as 1/150 to 1/200. It does seem odd that no offerings exist beyond HMS Victory for this glorious period in the Royal Navy's history.

I firmly believe that such moves could serve as a platform for a renaissance in Airfix's standings in the hobby world. Although I understand that designing and molding new kits is an expensive endeavor, the illustrated successes of newer model companies proves that this can be a profitable move. Hobbyists have also proven that they are willing to pay for excellence and new products.

Thank you for your consideration. I would love to hear your thoughts about this idea for Airfix.

Sincerely,

Bill Morrison

  • Member since
    December 2003
  • From: 37deg 40.13' N 95deg 29.10'W
Posted by scottrc on Tuesday, May 13, 2008 7:28 PM

It is ironic that when I built a sailing ship, my modeling freinds would complament me and tell me how they could never have had the patience to build one.  That was some twenty years ago.  Now, these same plane, armor, and steel warship modelers are creating masterpieces that require just as much skill, time, and patience on photoetch and resin parts as I did on my sailing ship.  I've tried to put miles of photo etched railings and keep them strait and build a radar in 1/700 scale from multiple photo etched parts and almost lost my mind due to the concentration involved.  I will take rigging ratlines anytime as far as relaxing enjoyment.  However, my collegues get more enjoyment from subjects made of steel and powered by steam and leave me to my deserts.

Down to it, models of tanks, planes, cars, and modern warships seem to have a sexy appeal that sailing ships cannot compete with.  When I display my ships to kids, they practically ignor the clipper ship, glance at the Constitution because of the guns, and go strait to the battleships and carriers. Todays marketing is focused on the thirteen year old, and a violent focus at that.  How many thirteen year olds are into Hornblower and Mobey Dick?  Pirates are popular, but the portrayal of pirate ships in the media; games, and movies, are more from a cartoon than actual representation.

I too have written appeals to the modeling marketers, only to get the warm reply thanking me for my reply and in the return evelope, a flyer with a discount coupon announcing the manufactuers latest 1/350 battleship and front line tank.

Long live the plastice model sailing ship, may it be in my closet or on my shelf if the future directs.

Scott

  • Member since
    September 2005
  • From: Groton, CT
Posted by warshipguy on Tuesday, May 13, 2008 5:56 PM

I understand that the comment "We'll pass your suggestion on . . ." is a polite shove-off. That is why I am lobbying for a deluge of similar letters and have singled out Hornby/Airfix for this attention. I agree that they are our best hope, hence, my letter to them.

I am equally frustrated by the lack of high-quality sailing ship kits. Revell (US) is a huge disappointment to me because of the rich American maritime history, especially during the age of sail. Revell should be capitalizing on this heritage by catering to our collective interests just as Airfix should capitalize on the even richer history of the Royal Navy of that era. We can be the impetus behind getting them to do so.

As for early manufactures . . . I have taken to detailing even the old Pyro offerings!

Again, thank you for your help!

  • Member since
    May 2003
  • From: Greenville, NC
Posted by jtilley on Tuesday, May 13, 2008 4:20 PM

Well, it certainly can't hurt.  I hope everybody's aware, though, that "we'll pass your suggestion to our marketing department" is a standard tactic that usually (not always) translates into "thanks, now please go away."

Some years ago I sent Airfix a nice letter complimenting the company on the quality of its warship kits - the best of which, I still contend, can stand comparison with the best on the market - and urging it to release some more.  I got back an even nicer, quite personal letter thanking me for my long-term loyalty to the brand and assuring me that my opinions were taken seriously.  Airfix hasn't released a new warship since.

Warshipguy - your enthusiasm is refreshing, and I hope you're right.  Airfix is under new management, and the new executives may well have a better appreciation for the essence of the hobby than their predecessors did.  I certainly hope so.

It looks to me like the manufacturers are not expecting us to buy the same sailing ship kits they've been producing for thirty years.  They're expecting us not to buy plastic sailing ship kits at all.  Take a look at the hard evidence.  Revell (US) has removed all but one of its scale sailing ship kits (its very first one, the 1/192 Constitution, which is now more than fifty years old) from its catalog.  The Heller kits, for the present at least, are all gone.  Airfix is reissuing most (not all) of its old sailing ships; that company may be the biggest cause for optimism.  Revell Europe offers more sailing ship kits than does its American counterpart, but the company management gives the distinct impression of having little interest in, and even less understanding of, what actually constitutes a scale sailing ship model.   

There certainly is plenty of room in the market.  Warshipguy's favorite subject, the Napoleonic Wars, is represented, so far as I know, by several plastic kits representing precisely one ship:  H.M.S. Victory.  Years ago Airfix made a tiny H.M.S. Shannon.  So far as I know there has never been another plastic kit representing a vessel of the Napoleonic Wars.  Maybe, by stretching the point, we can count the two Heller ships of the line from earlier in the eighteenth century; I'd have to look them up, but I think a few ships of that class may have survived into the age of Napoleon.  Oh - and there is of course the U.S.S. Constitution, the only American sailing warship that's ever been the subject of a respectable plastic kit.  (I find it hard to count the old Aurora Bonhomme Richard, the Pyro training ship Alliance, or the tiny Pyro Constellation in that category.  And the attempts by several companies to pass their Constitution kits off as the United States certainly don't fit in it.)

Indeed, almost the whole realm of the sailing ship is wide open to plastic kit manufacturers.  Only three American clipper ships, the Flying Cloud, the Sea Witch, and the Swordfish (the latter only in an ancient Marx kit that I know only by reputation), have ever been turned into plastic kits.  With the Revell Morgan and the Aurora Wanderer off  the market, there's no respectable American whaler.  There's never been an American packet ship.  Or a pilot schooner.  There's nothing from the American Revolution (one of my personal favorites).  Nothing from the fishing traditions of any country except the U.S. and Canada.  Or a British East Indiaman.  Or, apart from the excellent Airfix Wasa, anything from the great Scandinavian or Dutch maritime traditions.  Or, unless we count Columbus's ships, anything from Spain.  The list of potential subjects is almost literally endless.

Part of the problem, it should be admitted, is that the standard approach to plastic kit design is in many ways unsuited to sailing ships.  Styrene is a wonderful, versatile material, but it has its limits.  As many participants in this Forum have noted, styrene is not really a good material for spars.  Nobody except the geniuses at Imai has ever figured out how to make a passable representation of a block or a deadeye in a rigid mold.  (Imai apparently used multi-part "slide molds" - hugely expensive.)  And I'm afraid that, despite all the ingenious efforts of Heller, Airfix, Revell, et al, there's just no way to make it easy and quick to rig realistic shrouds and ratlines.  (The photo-etching process just may offer some promise.  So far as I know, though, nobody has yet tried to make a plastic sailing ship with etched metal parts.  I've written to several aftermarket manufacturers; none of them, so far, is interested in producing sets of parts designed for sailing ships.)

Another problem, well-known to anybody who's ever tried to make a living selling model kits, is endemic to sailing ship modeling in general:  the more experience a modeler gets, the less money he/she spends.  An aircraft modeler may spend a week or two on a kit that cost $20 or $30; in the course of a year he/she probably will spend several hundred dollars on kits - to say nothing of paint, tools, aftermarket parts, etc.  The purchaser of the Heller Victory, if he/she makes any effort to do a passable job on it, will be busy with that one kit for at least a year.  My scratchbuilt model of the frigate Hancock probably has something in the neighborhood of $200 worth of materials in it; I worked on it (by no means consistently) for six years.  Heaven help the hobby dealer or manufacturer whose business depends on people like me.

It's often occurred to me that the ideal sailing ship kit might be a "mixed media" product, with a styrene (or perhaps resin) hull, cast-resin and turned-metal fittings, and accurately-turned wood spars.  A few companies have made some hesitant gestures in that direction.  (The last sailing ship I actually finished was based on the Model Shipways pilot schooner Phantom kit.  It had a cast-resin hull, cast britannia metal fittings, and wood spars - which I replaced.  It had its problems, but I genuinely thought MS was on the right track.  Apparently I was unusual in that regard.  Before I finished the model MS took the kit off the market and reverted to the machine-carved hull version.)  I've seen ads for some cottage-industry kits with resin hulls and wood spars.  But only a handful of them.

Maybe we will, sometime in the not-to-distant future, see a change in the wind.  But I wish I could be more optimistic.

I'm curious about that Trumpeter Mayflower.  I've never actually seen it, and the commentaries on it I've read have been decidedly negative, but several folks who've bought it seem to think it's a reissue of an older kit (of so-far unidentified origin).  Can anybody out there enlighten us?  I know of one other Trumpeter sailing ship:  a Golden Hind that seems to have an even worse reputation.  Trumpeter, having tested the waters in that hesitant fashion, seems to have followed the lead of virtually all the other manufacturers and given up on sailing ships.

In any case, I believe the dubious distinction of "most recent plastic sailing ship kit" belongs to the two medieval cogs from Zvezda, which have only been around for (if I remember right) two or three years.  I was hoping for more from that source, but it seems to have dried up.

Youth, talent, hard work, and enthusiasm are no match for old age and treachery.

  • Member since
    September 2005
  • From: Groton, CT
Posted by warshipguy on Tuesday, May 13, 2008 12:57 PM

Hello!  Thank you for responding.  To send an email to Hornby Hobbies, go to Yahoo, perform a search for Hornby Hobbies, then click into "Customer Support". You can leave a message from there.  That is the only way that I know of to send an email to them.

Again, thanks for your help!

 

Bill Morrison

  • Member since
    January 2006
  • From: istanbul/Turkey
Posted by kapudan_emir_effendi on Tuesday, May 13, 2008 12:25 PM
 warshipguy wrote:

I have contacted Hornby Hobbies, the current owners of Airfix, with a recommendation for them to begin manufacturing a new series of plastic sailing ship model kits. I specifically mentioned the British Royal Navy of the Napoleonic Wars as a primary area of interest. They responded with a short email that they would forward my comments to their marketing division.

As I commented to Dr. Tilley, I believe that there is a market for our hobby. One has merely to look at the successes of the obsenely overpriced European plank-on-bulkhead kits to see that a market for sailing ship model kits exists. Indeed, they consistently release new offerings even in the United States. The plastic sailing ship manufacturers pale by comparison.

Dr. Tilley has pointed out that the manufacturers believe that we are a very small segment of the modeling population. Yet, we sustain an industry that hasn't released a new kit since Trumpeter's Mayflower 10 years ago. The manufacturers haven't really released a new product in almost 30 years other than that kit. In other words, the manufacturers seem to expect us to purchase the same kits repeatedly; if we don't, they conclude that there is no market for sailing ships. Yet, no manufacturer treats the airplane, armor, or car enthusiasts in a similar manner. If they dis, they would soon be out of business.

One cannot be reasonably expected to buy the same kits over again.  Therefore, I am asking each of you to contact Hornby Hobbies and the other manufacturers in an effort to get them to begin manufacturing new products for us.  Simply access their websites and submit an email. It may help!

Bill Morrison

Greetings Bill ! thank you for informing the forum. May you also give hornby hobbies' e-mail to us please ? I will immediately send an e-mail.

Don't surrender the ship !
  • Member since
    September 2005
  • From: Groton, CT
ATTENTION SAILING SHIP MODELERS!
Posted by warshipguy on Tuesday, May 13, 2008 12:00 PM

I have contacted Hornby Hobbies, the current owners of Airfix, with a recommendation for them to begin manufacturing a new series of plastic sailing ship model kits. I specifically mentioned the British Royal Navy of the Napoleonic Wars as a primary area of interest. They responded with a short email that they would forward my comments to their marketing division.

As I commented to Dr. Tilley, I believe that there is a market for our hobby. One has merely to look at the successes of the obsenely overpriced European plank-on-bulkhead kits to see that a market for sailing ship model kits exists. Indeed, they consistently release new offerings even in the United States. The plastic sailing ship manufacturers pale by comparison.

Dr. Tilley has pointed out that the manufacturers believe that we are a very small segment of the modeling population. Yet, we sustain an industry that hasn't released a new kit since Trumpeter's Mayflower 10 years ago. The manufacturers haven't really released a new product in almost 30 years other than that kit. In other words, the manufacturers seem to expect us to purchase the same kits repeatedly; if we don't, they conclude that there is no market for sailing ships. Yet, no manufacturer treats the airplane, armor, or car enthusiasts in a similar manner. If they dis, they would soon be out of business.

One cannot be reasonably expected to buy the same kits over again.  Therefore, I am asking each of you to contact Hornby Hobbies and the other manufacturers in an effort to get them to begin manufacturing new products for us.  Simply access their websites and submit an email. It may help!

Bill Morrison

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