Hasegawa Nagato CAD line fix?

 warshipguy wrote

As for fixing the problem, had you read further along this thread, you would discover that that is precisely what I am doing.  I recommended the use of putty applied in very thin threads to fill the CAD lines, sanding them and sealing them with ZAP. It is extraordinarily tedious work that we should absolutely not have to do.  You may accept such problems; I do not.

 I think we made our point that we expected a little better but to address the problem at hand the use of putty in thin threads kinda scares me. While I have no doubt you can pull it off the amount of work and trial and error may be a test for the most patient of modeler. I was going to try Mr Surfacer myself. I bought every type of it I could to test it on those cad lines. I was thinking of filling them by adding 500 type with a dot brush until they were filled and then overspraying the whole hull with 1000 or 1200 primer spray. I figured it would mean a lot less sanding and safer for those tricky spots. Unfortunately my large order got opened and stolen so  I am awaiting a replacement order. I really think that will work though and am anxious to try it out.

Very well put Bill... one thing about 350 scale ships; we will add 100USD + in PE/AMs and will take several months to finish, maybe a year or more. Maybe a prolific 350 builder can build half a dozen in a year...the point is, we can CHOOSE where we buy due to the proliferation of high quality 350 plastic ships in last couple years (Buchanan anyone?). It will be several years before I even think of buying another Hasegawa ship (except the SOYA, once I find a good sale :).  Kongo, Dragon's offerings et. al will get my $$$ before Hasegawa.

  Tracy,I have to agree with Bill. The cad lines are more than an inaccuracy they are a disfigurement. I pre-ordered my Nagato in good faith that it was of similar quality to kits like the Yukazi.  Again repeated with the Mutso which I would have bought had it been corrected. The distributers only follow the companys price recommendations for the most part and as far as I am concerned I paid $ 156 for a real turkey. Can I fix it? Sure I could by I shouldn't have to as this kit was marketed as a revolution in detail. I'd rather spend my time on a trumpeter kit or the Kongo rather than this overpriced slap in the face.

Tracy,

You are assuming that many of us heard about the CAD lines before purchase. I did not. As I've stated several times in this thread, I had made the assumption upon opening the box that Hasegawa was attempting to model the hull plate lines that are commonly found on ship hulls. When I found out the extent of my error in judgement, I was appalled that a leading model manufacturer could make such an astounding mistake.

Yes, I applaud that Hasegawa has added the NAGATO and MUTSU to the 1/350 realm. Yes, I am ecstatic about the overall level of detail found in these kits. But, the CAD lines go far beyond the simple inaccuracies found in the detail of any kit. This is a glaring lack of quality control that goes well beyond not having the correct amount of rivets on a turret top.  This was very careless manufacturing in that the designers failed to erase the CAD lines prior to casting the mold.

As for fixing the problem, had you read further along this thread, you would discover that that is precisely what I am doing.  I recommended the use of putty applied in very thin threads to fill the CAD lines, sanding them and sealing them with ZAP. It is extraordinarily tedious work that we should absolutely not have to do.  You may accept such problems; I do not.

Concerning your statement that I am complaining about the price of the kit . . . I most assuredly am not.  I willingly paid the price for the kit and its accessories; I did so gladly because the NAGATO is a ship I had desired for decades. But, I did not gladly pay my money to find out that the manufacturer failed to exercise quality control over his product.  I will gladly buy Fujimi's Kongo and Haruna; I will most decidedly NOT buy the Mutsu.

As for "Caveat Emptor," That is precisely what I am advocating . . . buyers vote with their dollars. I will not buy any further Hasegawa products until they correct this very careless flaw.

Bill Morrison

 

warshipguy wrote:

I bought this kit in good faith with the expectation that Hasegawa, as one of the world's premier model companies, would produce a quality product.

Concept: Caveat Emptor

The grid lines were well known as an inaccuracy well before the kit was publically available guys.  Every kit has inaccuracies, some you choose to live with and others bug you enough that you either don't buy the model or you fix them. That's what I'm doing with my Trumpeter North Carolina. 

How much of that high price you're complaining about is Hasegawa's "fault" versus the distributors?

Sheesh, you should THANK them for increasing your hours of fun versus dollars spent ratio.

Only partially tongue-in-cheek.

In fact,  I think that we should petition Hasegawa. I took the liberty of drafting a letter that we could send to the company.  It reads:

To whom it may concern,

I would like to voice my dismay about the apparent lack of quality control in the design of the 1/350 scale model of the Japanese battleships NAGATO and MUTSU, and the apparent lack of respect shown by Hasegawa for its customers by fostering upon us such expensive kits with such glaring flaws.  Although Hasegawa is to be commended for including an extraordinary amount of detail in these kits, they also contain one horrible design problem; the hull is covered by the CAD lines used in the computer program that was used to design the molds.  Apparently, the designers did not erase these lines before casting the molds, resulting in a grossly disfigured product.

Given the very high price of these kits, I feel cheated by Hasegawa. I bought this kit in good faith with the expectation that Hasegawa, as one of the world's premier model companies, would produce a quality product. The company did not do so.  These CAD lines are virtually impossible to eliminate without an extreme amount of work given their intricacy, lending the finished model a horrible blemish.

This problem has been much discussed on internet web sites such as that by Fine Scale Modeler.  Many of us believe that, given our investment and faith in Hasegawa products, your company should not only recast the hull halves omitting the CAD lines, but establish an exchange program in which your customers could exchange the poorly cast hull halves for the corrected parts.  Failure to do so could badly harm Hasegawa's reputation, perhaps irreparably.  I know that I will not purchase any further Hasegawa products until your company rectifies this careless error.

Thank you for your cooperation and understanding.

Bill Morrison

That's true!  By the time you add in all the 'extras,' you might as well have bought one of those fabulously expensive 1/350 resin kits...... And plastic is supposed to be cheaper!

Ditto. I have no intention of buying the MUTSU at all unless Hasegawa fixes the problem.  As for the cost of the kit, don't forget that, with the PE set and the resin upgrade set, the price of the NAGATO is over $300.00.  I firmly believe that Hasegawa owes us a fix. They should not only recast the hull, but should offer a replacement program for those of us who made the major investment in their product.

Bill Morrison

It might worth dropping a flea in the ear of Aoshima, or Fujimi for that matter, as it seems to me someone else might take a stab at the 'Nagato,' do it right and leave Hasegawa holding the bag with a useless hull mold.  Hell, it might be worth it to someone to produce just a proper hull mold!..... One reason Hasegawa may not be too receptive to a fix is a Japanese thing about not assigning blame (bad cultural juju).  As I said before, I am amazed Hasegawa would let something like this fall through the cracks, as they have produced so many wonderful kits in the past (the 'Mikasa' is just outstanding!), and I expect excellent work from them in the future.  But the Nagato (and apparently, the Mutsu as well) are turkeys, and I really regret the amount of time and effort I will have to put in just to get the hull in order (there's so much else to do!).  As a result, I intend to concentrate on the amazing 'Kongo' from Fujimi.  'Sod's Law' says just about the time I finally get the Nagato hull into something almost acceptable, someone else will produce the kit 'properly,' and I will have no recourse but to send my Hasegawa Nagato off on a final voyage...... Here's hoping that the upcoming Akagi will be free of stupid flaws (but I will not consider buying until I see full photos and reviews)! 

 It just seems a real shame. Hasagawa has done wonders with aircraft and 1/700 scale ships. I would think that pride in their companys work would have driven them to fix it. Cost and profit are important but the Asian business man as far as I know them are driven by a desire for perfection and while some minor faults in a kit can be overlooked such a major mistake in what is supposed to be a  quality scale representation given the current competition is not smart business. Releasing a second mistake in the sister ship just makes it sadder still. I felt the same way about the Academy M3 Lee then the Grant and that is just dealing with a suspension that is a little too tall. The Fujimi Kongo and the Aoshima 1/350 Cruisers are far superior products. I guess what I am saying is if they are proud enough to charge close to $200 for a kit  with the main selling point being modern technical detail then they owe us a fix when it isn't. I was looking forward to the release of the 1/350 Akagi but will not pay the price for the kit if it isn't right. If the Nagato cost 50 or 60 dollars I Would be more forgiving hence no pre order for any Hasegawa stuff until I get the low down on it. I really felt that they let us down there. Hopefully the Trumpeter Repulse comes out soon as I doubt I ever touch the Nagato. .... Boy was I venting?

What really makes me mad is that I had originally thought they were simply attempting to create hull plate lines. Boy, do I feel stupid!

Bill Morrison

Hi Bill,Yes,I know your comment was tongue in cheek :) I was just bumming a bit since reading the Mutsu is also "CAD-ed". I am a slow builder, a 350 scale would take me a year (on and off), those CAD lines probably added 4 - 6 months to the build.

I WILL take up your idea of dropping Hasegawa a note; they should know that I will be spending my "350 mulah" with someone else, such as with Fuj Kongo or one of Trumpeter's recent offerings and a slew of other 350 choices we are being flooded with (not a complaint! I just wish I had more time, more space, more money :)

Thanks for giving me some "back wind" to get me to send Has a note...cheers!

 

 

My comment was meant as a tongue-in-cheek comment. However, I never say that nothing can happen.  For example, I began lobbying Airfix to release new sailing ships and posted my attempts on this forum. As a result of mine and many others doing the same, Airfix has announced that they were planning new sailing ships within two years. It's a small step, but it seems to be working.  I will continue to send letters until I actually see progress.

Hasegawa is a business that must satisfy its customer base to remain in business. If enough of us cry "FOUL" loud enough and long enough, it can work. History is replete with examples.

Viva! rabble-rousers!

Bill Morrison

warshipguy wrote:

Perhaps we should all petition Hasegawa to not only recast the hull molds but to replace our hulls with the recast version! Bill Morrison

Will never happen... that mold is the most expensive one to produce, no way the re-cast a full hull mold. And we already have the answer, as the newly announced 1:350 Mutsu has the same CAD lines error (they used the same mold of course).

sfcmac, that is what happens when you outsource your work & have no control of the quality control.

warshipguy wrote:

Perhaps we should all petition Hasegawa to not only recast the hull molds but to replace our hulls with the recast version! Bill Morrison

That really sounds reasonable considering the cost of the kit. I mean everything else is top notch. Looks like they would want to fix the issue. What were they thinking? That it looked cool?

Perhaps we should all petition Hasegawa to not only recast the hull molds but to replace our hulls with the recast version!

Bill Morrison

The lines are really too deep for sanding, so only filling in some manner will do the trick...and it will be sloooooow..... Ithink this is probably the biggest mistake by any current manufacturer in a long time.  And this ain't some 1/72 airplane kit for 10 or 12 bucks neither!

 I have that kit and thought  those lines have to belong. I mean a state of the art kit that cost that much $$$? What a disappointment to find out that they are a whopper of a mistake. My guess is the only way to fix them is to sand them off where you can and fill the spots where you can't and recoat the whole monster with Mr Surfacer spray. Talking a lot of work that shouldn't be there on such an expensive kit. Reminds me a little of the old lindberg steel plating except the lindberg lines are raised and easier fixed, That's probably why I haven't seen a Nagato in the forum.

I am sure that you can. I simply have a feeling that the ZAP sealer "blends in" the work. It is simply a personal touch. Additionally, it fills in any areas of the putty that may have cracked or pitted.

Bill Morrison

After the putty is smooth, couldn't you simply sand with 1000g and then paint (I am going to use spray enamel as a base coat)?

JMart,

It's my pleasure! The process is painstaking and slow, but I am getting good results. I forgot to mention that I also have to lightly sand the ZAP after it dries.

Bill Morrison

Bill, thank you so much for your information... copy/pasted and stored for future reference! I am still quite aways from tackling the Nagato, but have been looking for CAD fixes for a bit, yours makes a lot of sense, thanks again for posting!

I am using 1000 grit. It seems to be working fine.  As for technique, I am simply roling a very small piece if putty between my fingers until I get a string, then I lay it into one of the lines, pressing it into place. I then wipe it smooth with a small piece of rag. I repeat the process over a small area (Maybe 3-4 inches of hull, then sand it smooth the next day. I then seal the putty with a drop of brushed on ZAP using micro brushes. Again, it is a tedious process but it is working.  Good luck!

 Bill Morrison

Oh, I agree, the model would be outstanding if it wasn't for these blasted CAD lines!  They are deep, they are wide, and they are awful!   I like the sound of the green putty trick, I will order some and try it out on the bottom..... What amazes me is that Hasegawa didn't at least fix the problem for 'Mutsu!'

they also repeated the error with the Mutsu:

http://www.modelshipwrights.com/modules.php?op=modload&name=News&file=article&sid=3965

The only solution i have seen used in a WIP is Mr Surfacer followed by sanding. Incredibly, most WIPs and builds I have seen simply ignore the lines....

I will probably use Mr Surfacer and techniqes used by the aircraft people in re-scribing raised panel lines around the fuselage. I have few a/c kits to practice re-scribing before I tackle the Nagato in a couple years.Will probably add several months to the build/project. There is a nice WIP on a waterline Nagato (imagine putting a SAW to that hull!) over in MSW.

<EDIT> Bill, I saw your reply as I was posting mine... really like your idea, will give it a try also..do you wipe the G putty with acetone-containing nailpolish first? Then let dry for a day at least? And fine grit... we talking Squadron stick "Fine", or 1000g, 2000g? Thanks for the info, looking forward to some pics down the road!

I mean, we are bashing Hasegawa and the CAD lines with a reason,, but the ship is GORGEOUS otherwise...

I'm filling mine with finely rolled strips of Squadron Green putty, gently wiping smooth, then sanding gently with fine grit. I am working slowly and only on small sections at a time. So far, it is working. However, it is quite tedious.

Bill Morrison

sounds like you are just afraid to do anything, j/k :P

Yes, at some point you'll have to do some sanding. But, if you do it carefully you won't have to do much. Both Mr. Surfacer and Styrene sand easier than the model plastic so you can go gently and protect any other details. And, if you do sand off some details you can sharpen up your detailing techniques and add them back in!

Don't gob the glue on and you'll be fine, trust me :D

Also, you'll be painting over all this so even if the mix of colors from mr. surfacer/glue/styrene bothers you, it'll all be under a few layers of paint eventually.

Basically, all of what i am hearing is going to involve a lot of filling and sanding, as regardless of whether you use mr. surfacer, or styrene strips and mr. surfacer, or gap-filling superglue, an unsightly area will result that must be sanded smooth after all is dry, yes? 

If the lines are really deep you could buy some styrene strips (I've got a couple different sizes <1mm square) and lay them in the lines so you don't use up all your Mr. Surfacer or glue--that's a large ship :P