Dragon 1/350 Buchanan

Jester75 wrote:

After reading this thread in its entirety, my Buchanan is on the way along with the $2.00 Cyber-Hobby PE set from Dragon USA!! Looking forward to finding this one sitting on the doorstep!!

I cannot stress what you have just said enough. The 20mm machineguns are smaller than a pencil eraser and comprise of 7 pieces. I could get all but the snail magazine on.. those like to flie out the tweezers into oblivian.

 the Bofors were a too, but not as bad. lots of small small parts. I have to remove my glasses and/or contacts to do them well (need em for distance clarity). The cyber hobby radar took me a couple hours.

sfcmac wrote:

I got the Cyber Hobby Upgrade with both my kits. I think it is a good deal. The radar is well done and the railings top notch. Not as crazy as the other pricy one that was linked to here but with in my skill level. From what I have heard dealing with the tiny PE gun parts is like brain surgery.

I finally broke down and ordered mine yesterday...I got it straight from Dragon USA for $42 (includes the the CyberHobby) PE upgrade and shipping) !!!

Did any of these serve in the Atlantic???---I wanna do miner as a sub-killer... 

Mansteins revenge wrote:

Did any of these serve in the Atlantic???---I wanna do miner as a sub-killer...

They were involved in the Atlantic & Mediterranean operations.   Their role increased as more Fletchers came online and were assigned to the Pacific.   Benson/Gleaves were withdrawn from the Pacific and moved to the Atlantic.  

See destroyerhistory.org's index page on the Benson/Gleaves and follow links to specific ships

http://www.destroyerhistory.org/benson-gleavesclass/index.html

Four of the five US destroyers sunk or damaged at Normandy were Benson/Gleaves (Corry, Glennon, Harding, & Nelson).   Other Benson/Livermores; the Lansdale, Bristol, and Beatty were also sunk by German action.

EdGrune wrote:

Mansteins revenge wrote: Did any of these serve in the Atlantic???---I wanna do miner as a sub-killer...  They were involved in the Atlantic & Mediterranean operations.   Their role increased as more Fletchers came online and were assigned to the Pacific.   Benson/Gleaves were withdrawn from the Pacific and moved to the Atlantic.   See destroyerhistory.org's index page on the Benson/Gleaves and follow links to specific ships http://www.destroyerhistory.org/benson-gleavesclass/index.html Four of the five US destroyers sunk or damaged at Normandy were Benson/Gleaves (Corry, Glennon, Harding, & Nelson).   Other Benson/Livermores; the Lansdale, Bristol, and Beatty were also sunk by German action.

Mansteins revenge wrote:

Cool...thanks!  What was the primary improvement(s) the Fletcher class had over the the Gleaves class???

Go here http://www.destroyerhistory.org/fletcherclass/index.html.   Good summary.  Larger, faster, better armed ...

Actually the one I am converting to is the USS Emmons which is currently sitting at about 150ft below sea level here at Okinawa. She actually had many confirmed kills on D-Day in Normandy taking out shore guns.

she was converted to a fast mine sweeper before coming here to meet her demise

... And for you AirTrans, a couple of pages from destroyerhistory.org which might be of interest you.

http://www.destroyerhistory.org/benson-gleavesclass/ussemmons/index.html

http://www.destroyerhistory.org/benson-gleavesclass/ussemmons/research457.html

Happy Holidays

Tracy White wrote:

Additionally, most of them did their shakedowns in the atlantic.

airtrans Crash wrote:

I cannot stress what you have just said enough. The 20mm machineguns are smaller than a pencil eraser and comprise of 7 pieces. I could get all but the snail magazine on.. those like to flie out the tweezers into oblivian.  the Bofors were a too, but not as bad. lots of small small parts. I have to remove my glasses and/or contacts to do them well (need em for distance clarity). The cyber hobby radar took me a couple hours.  sfcmac wrote:  I got the Cyber Hobby Upgrade with both my kits. I think it is a good deal. The radar is well done and the railings top notch. Not as crazy as the other pricy one that was linked to here but with in my skill level. From what I have heard dealing with the tiny PE gun parts is like brain surgery.

Mansteins revenge wrote:

Awesome, now one more question: Did any of them mount "hedgehog" anti-sub launchers? I want to scratch one and mount it if it was indeed put on these ships...

Do some research (Navsource.org, destroyerhistory.org, etc.) on your own.

I think you will find that the Hedgehog was not a common installation on the Benson/Gleaves and Fletcher classes during the war.   During the war the Navy increased the AA armament, often to the detriment of the ASW and ASuW armament.  Post-war, on DDE modifications, I think you will find that Hedgehog  replaced the 40mm guns on the forward deckhouse aft of the 52 mount.

Hedgehog was a common weapon on DEs which had more of a role in wartime ASW than their larger cousins.

airtrans Crash wrote:

I cannot stress what you have just said enough. The 20mm machineguns are smaller than a pencil eraser and comprise of 7 pieces. I could get all but the snail magazine on.. those like to flie out the tweezers into oblivian.  the Bofors were a too, but not as bad. lots of small small parts. I have to remove my glasses and/or contacts to do them well (need em for distance clarity). The cyber hobby radar took me a couple hours.  sfcmac wrote:  I got the Cyber Hobby Upgrade with both my kits. I think it is a good deal. The radar is well done and the railings top notch. Not as crazy as the other pricy one that was linked to here but with in my skill level. From what I have heard dealing with the tiny PE gun parts is like brain surgery.

it has the W shaped screen, five braces (IIRC) and a rod to go through the braces.

EdGrune wrote:

During the war the Navy increased the AA armament, often to the detriment of the ASW and ASuW armament.  Post-war, on DDE modifications, I think you will find that Hedgehog  replaced the 40mm guns on the forward deckhouse aft of the 52 mount.

This was largely dependant upon theater; ships serving in the atlantic didn't have the same amount of AA upgrades that the pacific theater did. But I would agree that few, if any of the B/Gs received hedge hogs during the war. There may have been a couple, however. 

Tracy White wrote:

EdGrune wrote: During the war the Navy increased the AA armament, often to the detriment of the ASW and ASuW armament.  Post-war, on DDE modifications, I think you will find that Hedgehog  replaced the 40mm guns on the forward deckhouse aft of the 52 mount. This was largely dependant upon theater; ships serving in the atlantic didn't have the same amount of AA upgrades that the pacific theater did. But I would agree that few, if any of the B/Gs received hedge hogs during the war. There may have been a couple, however.

This comes from a friend of mine who has been doing a TON of research in the archives about these and other classes of destroyers:

Rick E. Davis wrote:

As far as I know, the Benson-Gleaves units did not get Hedge-hogs during WWII.  The DE's and some of the Flush-deckers had hedge-hogs.  There was discussion about adding HH to Benson-Gleaves units in Friedman's destroyer book (and/or Reilly's), but the powers-to-be didn't like the idea.  However, twelve units (DD 493, 609*, 620, 622, 623, 635*, 637*-639*, and 646-648) DID get three Mk 22 ASW Rocket "Mousetrap" systems installed on the forecastle in late 1943.  It didn't last long, they were mounted fixed and were a bear to train for firing by pointing the ship. Only the five ships I have put an "*" on are the round-bridge type ... the rest were square bridge units. If I remember right the DMS units recommissioned/in use during the 1950's did get hedge-hogs like the Fletchers (Sumners, Gearings).  Also, some of the FMS units were updated with them as well. Here are three views I pulled up quickly that show the "Mousetrap" installation.  If you want to post one or all on the Finescale forum, go ahead.  I think I have posted some of these on Modelwarships.org.  I know that if I was a crew member on one of the ships firing these things ... I would want to be somewhere else.

My own comments: note that they were collapsible, but not trainable. Note the blast shield visible on deck behind them when folded down 

Awesome pics, Tracy---thanks a bunch.  That set-up looks a little different than the traditional hedgehog device I've seen on DE's, which is more like a box bristing with the warheads...but it does prove some devices were at least trialed on DD's...

By the way, finally got my Buchanan this Sat and I was blown away by the kit !!! I can only pray Dragon wil produce more classes of Destroyers, hopefully even crossing over to British, Japanese and German types !!! 

Jst got mine last week...excited like hell..!!!  Cant wait to get started...and yup, couldnt help myself to post up a pic..~ Hehee...

Tracy White wrote:

The Mk 22 that Rick provided the photos for was not a hedgehog... different device. Much simpler and less effective.

Interesting note about the MK22 Mousetrap from navweaps.com 

A Mousetrap projector similar to the Mark 20, but with eight rails, organized as four over four.  Fired a pattern of about 80 yards wide (73 m) at a range of about 300 yards (274 m).  100 of these weapons were in service by November 1942.  In addition to smaller craft, twelve Benson (DD-421) class and Gleaves (DD-423) class destroyers were each fitted with three of these projectors on the forecastle forward of the forward 5"/38 mount.  One of these destroyers, USS Turner DD-648, blew up and sank off Ambrose Light (Lower New York Bay) on 3 January 1944, killing 138 crewmen.  The loss was attributed to Mousetrap projectiles with faulty contact fuzes.

EdGrune wrote:

Tracy White wrote: The Mk 22 that Rick provided the photos for was not a hedgehog... different device. Much simpler and less effective. Interesting note about the MK22 Mousetrap from navweaps.com  A Mousetrap projector similar to the Mark 20, but with eight rails, organized as four over four.  Fired a pattern of about 80 yards wide (73 m) at a range of about 300 yards (274 m).  100 of these weapons were in service by November 1942.  In addition to smaller craft, twelve Benson (DD-421) class and Gleaves (DD-423) class destroyers were each fitted with three of these projectors on the forecastle forward of the forward 5"/38 mount.  One of these destroyers, USS Turner DD-648, blew up and sank off Ambrose Light (Lower New York Bay) on 3 January 1944, killing 138 crewmen.  The loss was attributed to Mousetrap projectiles with faulty contact fuzes.

yeapjacky wrote:

Jst got mine last week...excited like hell..!!!  Cant wait to get started...and yup, couldnt help myself to post up a pic..~ Hehee...

Tracy White wrote:

Yes, I was aware of that. I was posting Rick's information that no Benson/Gleaves carried the Hedgehog during the war, and that the closest you could come was the Mk 22.

And Ted Roscoe states in "US Destroyer Operations in WWII" that NO destroyers were equipped with Hedgehog, and that the equipment was primarily used on PF (frigates) and DE classes.