Airbrush advice please!

Try a search in our community for any one of the name brands you are considering and you'll get a wealth of information.  Likely TMI.  I searched yester under "HP C Plus" (an AB I considered and ended up purchasing due, in part, to what the forum had to say) and got some great information on Iwata, Aztek and Badger.  I haven't used it yet due to a hose/compressor incompatibility that TCPGlobal was very helpful in rectifying.

Good Luck.

It's going to be hard to answer your question for anyone not familiar with the AB you are currently using.

I can only pass on my own experience.
My first AB was a Model Master (Aztek). Loved it until it failed.
It's replacement was a Paache VL. Loved it more, was amazed at the quality of the unit. Worked great and never failed me.
I replaced it purely on peer pressure with an Iwata Revolution CR. HUGE improvement over the former. The action is so much more smooth, the brush being a gravity brush vs the VL's suction, the ability to do fine work and lines was greatly improved. The Iwata fit better in my hand because it's smaller than the VL.
Since then I've aquired an HP-CS. Works great, just like the CR, and I've also obtained a BCR for those jobs that require a tank of paint to do the job.

Most of the time, when people start out with a cheap brush they are amazed at the quality and ability of the higher line  brushes.
Keep in mind, as the quality goes up, the difference between the brushes gets smaller ie: quality or capabilty of the tool. Typically, the capabilities of a $20 brush are greatly different from a $100 brush. But the difference between a $100 brush and a $250 brush are harder to discern. It takes true talent and years of experience for someone to utilize the very refined abilities of the $250 brush.

That said, there are many a modeler who use $20 AB's and get fantastic results. Remember, you can't buy ability. If you are at the point where you notice small things about your current tool may be getting in the way of a better result, it may be time to upgrade. But if you think you'll get results that you see on the forums instantly because you bought a more expensive AB then you are likely mistaken.

I would say that experience is far more important than the brand and model of brush.  Airbrushing takes skill- acquired skill.  The more you do it, the better results you will get.  In addition to airbrushing kits you are working on, do some just-plain-practicing, and some experimenting (on scrap materials).  Vary pressure, vary mixing ratios (thinner to paint), vary distances, etc.  These things all produce different results.  And, these parameters are probably more important than the brand of airbrush you are using.

I'd agree with Don... skill comes into play with what you can do with an airbrush artistically on your model.  Technique is what you can make the tool do, and in many ways they're totally separate.  You can be Rembrandt himself, and you're trying to paint panel lines in 1/72 scale with a .5 nozzle and no research into thinning your particular choice brand of paint then you're going to fail.  

Skill requires practice, but technique primarily requires research and testing.  Acrylic, enamel, or laquer?  What brand?  What kind of thinner?  How thin?  Pressure vs. distance vs. thinning.  Retarders, flow aids, mediums.  Environmentals... this can drive you mad... get everything else right, and the next day it's a lot more humid and all your calculations go out the window.

Unfortunately with air brushing it can take a lot of work in the technique area to make the tool do what you want it to do.  Only then can you really start to practice the skill of airbrushing as an art to achieve the effects you want on your model.  

Hi Jinja

I have 3 Iwatas, HP-B+, HP-C+, HP-BC+, Passche VL, Badger 150, and Master G22. The Iwatas are very good brushes, parts are expensive to replace, but if you use it properly, they last for many years, I only change only 1 needle in almost 10 years because I dropped it on the floor. 

the Passche VL  doesnt give you fine atomization even for the finest needle provided even when new, it keep on spitting paint,  i changed the cone and needle numerous times it got better at first and got worse again. using the same jar of paint with Iwata and has no problem. now i only use the Passche for primers and flats, which i dont care much for coarse and spitting paint that much. I dont know how so many people are swear by it. (not being offended but just curious do people who have Passche VL also have other brand to compare?)

Badger 150 works ok, but the problem is when pushing the trigger down, it wobbles left to right. its the design problem, when pushing down the trigger, there is some room around the shaft causing it moves left to right, which also shifts the needle to move left to right, so the needle is never centered when spraying. I compared it to the new ones at the store and seems like they are all like that. (unless they fix the problem on the newer badge, because mine is kind of old). Its performance is acceptable overall. Badger has the best customer service. they will fix pretty much every thing for you for free for non-neglagence issues, all you need to pay is to ship it to them, but I am not sure about oversea customers though.

My master is my all time favorite, i got mine used online, been using it for 4 years now, and i dont know how long the previous owner had it. It looks like a Iwata copy cat. its just as good as my Iwatas if not better. Parts are cheap, but I haven't change any parts on it yet. In the states, i think only TCB global carries it, i never deal with them, so i am not sure about the customer service. If you want to save money, I think Master is a good buy, the G44 only cost about $40, still cheaper than your airbrush and got Iwata quality. (if TCB global stand behind there products)

Looking at your airbrush, cost you ~$60 USD, i never used it before, so my word will not give good justice, but just by looking at it, its all plastic, it may not last long, and the performance probably not too refined. Spending 2-3 times more seems to be alot, but you have to think, a good airbrush probably last you 20years or life long, if you break it down, how much it cost per day?!

conclusion: if you can get free service oversea, badger is a good choice, because the cost for maintanence and parts can be a concern. if you are willing to spend more Iwata is a good choice (heard Eclipse is a good model, but never try one, only cost ~$100 so its not too much, since you are willing to spend ~$60 on a plastic airbrush. also the replacement parts is not as costly) For bang for a buck, go for Master you would love it.

I think Amani is looking at the airbrush at the top of the page, which is plastic.  The AB-130 you mention is further down the page.  The Master G22 that Amani likes appears to be the same as the AB-130A which is just below the AB-130.  I believe you would find that the internal parts of your airbrush are the same as his, and both are probably made by Fengda in China.   I have a review of  the Master G-22 on my website.  It's a capable airbrush.  It has some features I don't care for, but if you are getting good results and you like it, I see no reason why you should change.

Don

Should you, given your present circumstances, buy a new/better airbrush to see an improvement in your painting?  If you're new to airbrushing (like I still am, really) then the 'black art' aspect of it cannot be understated.  People above have detailed how complex and frustrating it can be to get consistent, desirable results from your tool.  I don't know precisely HOW cheap your AB is, but I'd be willing to bet that with reasonable maintenance it can likely perform at a decent level for some functions, and the rest of your failure(s) are due to not being an airbrush mega-master.  

oops, I didnt even scroll down the whole page, thanks Don for the corection.

Not sure if AB-130A is the same as G22 and not sure if AB-130 and AB-130A share the same components (but i assume so)

Assuming AB-130 use the same components as AB-130A, and AB-130 = G22 then it should be pretty nice, but still I think $60USD for a unknown brand is kind of price, or maybe UK has higher mark up.

Hi all, 

Thanks for all the input.  Don W, your review of the G22 was very interesting to read, it seems it is a very close relative of the AB-130 in the parts break down, although the handle end of the  AB-130 is slightly different, and your opinion and experiences with it are identical to mine.  

After 2 1/2 years of use, the threading of the handle has gone, both o-rings have broken, and I am frustrated with with it's propensity to clog.  It feels like I'm always swimming against the tide with it.

So I'm probably going to go ahead and get a new, higher-end model.  Just need to somehow work out how I'm going to decide on the lucky winner.  There's so many to choose from, that's the hard part!

Jinja

After 2 1/2 years of use, the threading of the handle has gone, both o-rings have broken, and I am frustrated with with it's propensity to clog.  It feels like I'm always swimming against the tide with it.

So I'm probably going to go ahead and get a new, higher-end model.  Just need to somehow work out how I'm going to decide on the lucky winner.  There's so many to choose from, that's the hard part!

It sounds like you need a new airbrush, all right.  This is where people will jump in and plug their favorite.  A lot depends on price and availability where you live.  Harder & Steenbeck, Iwata, Badger, and Paasche all make good brushes.  Since you are used to a fine tip, you might consider the Badger Renegade Velocity.  My personal favorite of the ones I have is the Badger Patriot.  It is very easy to care for and the .5mm tip makes it less fussy about thinning.

Don

With problems like that no wonder you want a new one.

Like Don, I'd recommend a Badger. The Renegade is a good choice as is the Patriot.I think the Renegade is a bit nicer of the two.  Look up Grex online too. I've been hearing very good stuff about their equipment and a friend of mine uses one and raves about it. And he's had some high line stuff in his days.

I just got a great deal on a Badger Anthem 155 at Coast Airbrush.  $69 including shipping.  I'm not sure how much shipping would be to you though.  But from my research it seems to be the best all around airbrush on the market.  And Badger has the absolute best customer service in the industry.

Here's a link to them

http://www.coastairbrush.com/proddetail.asp?prod=155-1

Jinja

Hi all, 

Thanks for all the input.  Don W, your review of the G22 was very interesting to read, it seems it is a very close relative of the AB-130 in the parts break down, although the handle end of the  AB-130 is slightly different, and your opinion and experiences with it are identical to mine.  

After 2 1/2 years of use, the threading of the handle has gone, both o-rings have broken, and I am frustrated with with it's propensity to clog.  It feels like I'm always swimming against the tide with it.

So I'm probably going to go ahead and get a new, higher-end model.  Just need to somehow work out how I'm going to decide on the lucky winner.  There's so many to choose from, that's the hard part!

As others already pointed out, you have an Iwata knock-off made-in-China and likely to be by Fengda Bida Company. It is a good starter airbrush and widely availabe in UK for about £20. You can find a review of it at AEROSCALE.

I have two of those airbrushes that I do not normally use because they lack the smooth and precision feel of better airbrushes such as Iwata or Harder & Steenbeck.

Since you are in UK, I will recommend that you seriously look for German made airbrushes. They will be cheaper than the Japanese brands of equivalent model. US made airbrushes are often way overpriced in UK and they also do not have the finish quality of Japanese and German made. That's the EU factor in pricing.

You should shop carefully for price. You may want to visit the Tools and Tips forum at Aircraft Resources Center where there is a more international favor when talking about airbrush selections.

In UK, you can get the H&S Evolution Silverline 2in1 for under £130. The Silverline is the Evolution with a preset handle. Check out the Evolution review in AEROSCALE.

Good luck and let us know what you find.

So much feedback here, thx all.  Since there's so many 'what airbrush' threads on the net, I'm surprised no one told me to use Search! (hence my request for info on my specific AB-130).

This is such a difficult exercise deciding on an AB, there are so many to choose from, and not helped by a complete inability to try before I buy.

With my AB-130 being my 1st AB and not knowing the product-area at the time, I'm surprised now to learn it's a 0.2mm needle.  That'll explain why it's so picky about my thinning ratios.

So I've decided I definitely want a bigger needle, but was thinking that the 0.5mm was too much of a change.

The late entry is definitely a possible winner, although I need to do some searching and see if owners out there are as positive about it as they are Iwata.  People's comments about the Iwata CR, price and 5-yr guarantee make it very attractive, but the 2-in-1 option, needle limiter and the 0.4mm needle are drawing me to the H&S Evolution Silverline....

I'm putting my SEA camouflage Phantom on hold till I get the new AB, it'll be a good work out to see if I've made a good purchase!

I think that the majority here would agree that you should be looking at a Gravity fed double action airbrush, as it's best suited to what you are doing with it.

I am obviously biased, but The H&S airbrushes are pretty versatile, with 0.15, 0.2, 0.4 & 0.6mm needle / nozzle sets available - as you can imagine, the 0.2 & 0.4mm are the ones that you would most often be using, the 0.15mm is suited to superfine work & the 0.6mm can be handy for primer, single colour jobs & clear coats. You also have a variety of cup sizes available for the gravity fed models, as well as a side feed conversion.

We stock the entire Harder & Steenbeck airbrush range, along with accessories & spares. You can see their range of gravity fed brushes here;

http://www.air-craft.net/acatalog/Gravity-Feed-Airbrushes.html

Milairjunkie

Just curious.  Why Gravity Fed?  Siphon feed is less hassle, less chance of spills and you can use a larger jar which means less fills on large models as well as negating the possibility of a spill.   Although there is the Badger 260 which gives you the capability for either/or.

 

I think that the majority here would agree that you should be looking at a Gravity fed double action airbrush, as it's best suited to what you are doing with it.

I am obviously biased, but The H&S airbrushes are pretty versatile, with 0.15, 0.2, 0.4 & 0.6mm needle / nozzle sets available - as you can imagine, the 0.2 & 0.4mm are the ones that you would most often be using, the 0.15mm is suited to superfine work & the 0.6mm can be handy for primer, single colour jobs & clear coats. You also have a variety of cup sizes available for the gravity fed models, as well as a side feed conversion.

We stock the entire Harder & Steenbeck airbrush range, along with accessories & spares. You can see their range of gravity fed brushes here;

http://www.air-craft.net/acatalog/Gravity-Feed-Airbrushes.html

Milair, 

That's a timely post, were you lurking here waiting for an easy sale? ;-)

Tell me this then, will my existing hose which connects to my AB-130 work with the Silverline fPC?

Thx

Sparrowhyperion

Just curious.  Why Gravity Fed?  Siphon feed is less hassle, less chance of spills and you can use a larger jar which means less fills on large models as well as negating the possibility of a spill.   Although there is the Badger 260 which gives you the capability for either/or.

You have been misinformed. Gravity feed is easier to clean, thus, less hassle in changing color. Most modeler prefer gravity feed because it is more flexible in paint usage. (It allows better atomization at lower pressure.)

Siphon feed has the advantage of the paint cup out of the line of sight and allow a better view of the model. You can visit Don Wheeler's web site to see his point on this.

For typical scale model size, the gravity cup holds plenty of paint that I am likely to take a pause before paint runs out.

Personally, I found a good gravity feed balances better in my hand.

I think that for me, the siphon feed is a better option.  I sometimes have uncontrollable muscle twinges in my hands (leftovers from an aneurysm).  So an open cup is not a good idea.  I also usually don't do anything smaller than 1/48 and I like BIG models with lots of details.  I got the Anthem 155 primarily for it's flexibility without changing needles.  That and all the positive feedback I got on it before deciding on it.  And Badger is supposed to have just about the best customer service in the business.  I'll see how good it is once it gets here and I try it out.  BTW I meant to type Badger 360 gives the choice of either.  Typos are another leftover... :)

Rich

keilau

 

Sparrowhyperion:

 

Just curious.  Why Gravity Fed?  Siphon feed is less hassle, less chance of spills and you can use a larger jar which means less fills on large models as well as negating the possibility of a spill.   Although there is the Badger 260 which gives you the capability for either/or.

 

 

You have been misinformed. Gravity feed is easier to clean, thus, less hassle in changing color. Most modeler prefer gravity feed because it is more flexible in paint usage. (It allows better atomization at lower pressure.)

Siphon feed has the advantage of the paint cup out of the line of sight and allow a better view of the model. You can visit Don Wheeler's web site to see his point on this.

For typical scale model size, the gravity cup holds plenty of paint that I am likely to take a pause before paint runs out.

Personally, I found a good gravity feed balances better in my hand.

Jinja

That's a timely post, were you lurking here waiting for an easy sale? ;-)

 

Not really, I just noticed keilau plugging the competition, so I thought I would stick my oar in!

Jinja

Tell me this then, will my existing hose which connects to my AB-130 work with the Silverline fPC?

 

The Fengda 130 seems to have a 1/8" male fitting with an add on barbed hose fitting screwed on? ;

I am assuming that your hose is fitted with a screw on connector which screws onto the 130 & that you don't use the barbed fitting - if this is the case, removing the Silverline's quick connect tail wil reveal a male 1/8" connector the same as that on the 130 - I'm pretty sure that this is the case, but if you want to double check, the threaded male fitting at the bottom of your airbrush should have an outside diameter of 9.5mm.

So it should fit just fine.

Sparrowhyperion

Just curious.  Why Gravity Fed?  Siphon feed is less hassle, less chance of spills and you can use a larger jar which means less fills on large models as well as negating the possibility of a spill.   Although there is the Badger 260 which gives you the capability for either/or.

I would echo what Keilau has said. Some do prefer bottom feeders, but with the H&S gravity brushes offering a range of paint cups, capacity isn't really a problem - I agree the 2ml cup is a bit on the small side, but the 5ml & very occasionally the 15ml will do pretty much everything I need (1/72 & 1/48 aircraft). Cup lids are also available, which certainly help prevent me from sloshing paint all over the place.

Gravity fed brushes do generally offer more control & better performance at lower pressures - they are also slightly easier to clean.

Since you already know the ins and outs of the BD-130, my suggestion would be to get another HP-clone airbrush, but of better quality than the one you got. That way you would feel at home with it right away.

There are a lot of different choices to be had. Budget and availability sets the limit more than anything else.

I am surprise your AB-130 broke so easily, like I said, my used Master G22 is 4yrs old and it hasn't break down on me yet, none of the o-rings are bad and i use acetone to clean quite often. Perhaps I happened to have an iron man clone.

I think budget, parts availability/price, customer service are the key concerns. I personally really like to try on the H&S infinity and the Iwata Eclipse, or something with the pistol grip.

Yeah, I'm real surprised the threading went, I don't abusive my equipment normally (fnar fnar!)

I'll probably seal the deal on the 2-in-1 Silverline tomorrow.  For me modelling is so addictive and clearly going to be a very long term hobby since I've been doing it on and off for 20 yrs (but much more so in the past 3 yrs since I got my G22), so spending well on a very good AB makes sense in the long run.

everybody are praising the H&S airbrushes, and its german made, so must be very good. the infinity is going to be my next one if I need to buy another one. Heard some comments about "using Passche then switch to H&S and never turn around", never heard the other way around. just like driving a ford, then switch to BMW and never turn around. That tells you something.

Does anyone know if you can pull the needle from the front for cleaning for H&S infinity or evolution? thats one thing i dont like about the Iwatas I have, except the 0.2mm needle, everything else comes out from the back, which doesnt quite make sense for cleaning.

Hi Amani,

I agree, this is what I feel after being recommend the H&S by Milair.  It was a timely suggestion, and the comments about them are overwhelmingly v. positive from all the forums I searched for comments subsequently.

I placed a nice fat order with air-craft.net 2 days ago, if I'm lucky I'll have the AB today for the weekend.

My only downside is the severe bruising my wallet took!

And yes, you can extract the Evo needle from the front, I read that in multiple reviews.

Hi all,

Just wanted to wrap this thread up.  I got my H&S 2in1 Silverline fPC 2 weeks ago.  I'm very glad I got the full monty (fPC + Silverline).  

The quality is great.  It just feels nicer to hold and spray.

I find myself tweaking the fPC and needle travel-limiter constantly for perfect results.  So much handier than reaching under the desk to mess with the pressure regulator on the compressor.  Of course I don't know what pressure I'm at then in real figures, but I find you learn to judge it by the sound.

It can blow alot harder than my G22 (is that a benefit of 0.4mm versus 0.2mm?). Helps when cleaning, just spray through a tonne of water in no-time.

Cleaning's a doddle...

Haven't tried the 0.15mm yet, am leaving that till a very rainy day!

My only question is that on the G22, I'd put my finger over the front and back-blow air through the paint reserve as part of my cleaning routine.... can't do that on the H&S since the needle guard has holes in it... do people just not use that technique when cleaning their H&S?

I haven't done any full model coats yet, am still on sub-assembly prep on a 1:48 F4 and F18, but getting closer.... looking forward to it now, and confidence goes a long way.

Jinja

My only question is that on the G22, I'd put my finger over the front and back-blow air through the paint reserve as part of my cleaning routine.... can't do that on the H&S since the needle guard has holes in it... do people just not use that technique when cleaning their H&S?

Try holding the rubber bulb from an eyedropper over the nozzle.

Don

Jinja

My only question is that on the G22, I'd put my finger over the front and back-blow air through the paint reserve as part of my cleaning routine.... can't do that on the H&S since the needle guard has holes in it... do people just not use that technique when cleaning their H&S?

You can backflush as per the G22 if you put a piece of cloth over the needle cap to close off the openings. Precision German Airbrush have a useful video on stripping / cleaning the Infinity, most applies to the Evolution with exception of how to backflush (typical!);

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YimpPHbv4eM

Martin.