I won't be using Model Master acrylics again.

I have had some good results with them, but oddly, the kit I am working on right now, the MM RLM 02 is flaking off from the wheel wells, but nowhere else. This may be due to the fact that I didn't prime these areas. The paint is adhering well elsewhere.

Have you sealed the paint after it dries?  Usually a coating of something dull or gloss will help with this.

Sealing something that isn't already sticking well to the surface doesn't mean its going to stick any better afterwards. You may dissipate the surface tension some but the underlying cause is not corrected. A little bit of masking or a rub with a finger will still cause the paint to flake off.

Prep the surface (scuff it up), Clean the surface then Prime before applying the paint is the only sure way to get it to bond especially acrylics that are known to have low etching properties.

As I said, I have tried this over unprimed, and automotive paint primer with the same results over metal and plastic.  In fact, the paint flaked off of the primer when I had to sand a small area which needed extra attention requiring the stripping of the entire part and reapplication of the paint.  If the project were not already 80 % finished I would strip all of the worthless Model Master off and do it again with a better paint.  Which brings me to my original question, what is a better brand?  I am no longer interested in trying to make an inferior product work.

Some swear by Tamiya acrylics if you want to stay with acrylic paints.  They airbrush well and seem to stick a little better.

I stick with MM enamels though.  They "bite" into the surface and I haven't ever had a problem of  paint chipping off.  I usually don't us a primer either.  Unless I am painting some photoetch or resin pieces.  And that's to keep the paint looking a little more uniform.

For an acrylic brand that had excellent performance and wide selection a great choice was Gunze Sangyo Acqueous. Unfortunately that line is no longer imported to the USA. Their Mr Color line airbrushes as well but is lacquer based and only cleans and thins with their (pricey) thinner.

Polly Scale works pretty well also and has a great selection, but A) is more expensive, and B) has a tendencey to dry quickly and clog while airbrushing.

Tamiya airbrushes beautifully, but has a limited selection and no FS matches if that is your thing.

I hear lots of good things about Vallejo, but personally am not impressed by them.

Around here in California, near L.A., enamels are still widely available from Modle Master and Humbrol,  as well as those little old Testors bottles. Another Enamel brand I have had good expereince with is XtraColour, but shops no longer carry those and they can only be had by online order.

I've tried Humbrol and White Ensign enamels, and I like Model Master better. 

They're harder to get your hands on, and harsher stuff, but Gunze's Mr Color lacquer paints are amazing, and if you want something that sticks, it's hard to do better IMO.

if I have said it once I will say it a billion times.  There is NO better acrylic paint then Tamiya Acrylic.  Its perfect and I have had 0 problems with it, as opposed to the hundreds of times Iv had bad MM/testors stuff.

When I first came back to modeling a couple of years ago I first tried acrylic paint.  As I progressed I started using MM enamels, then tried White Ensign Colourcoats.  Now, as long as I can find the tints I want in White Ensign I go with that.  Great paint.  Only problem is that some colors have been hard to come by lately due to White Ensign's supplier that makes their paints as an end of run product.  I'm told this should be getting better this spring.  If I can't find the tint I need in White Ensign, then I'll stick with MM.

Bob

I have tried all the major acrylic players. MM is hit and miss with me, I think the thinning is my downfall. Sometimes it works weel others it doesn't. Valleijo seems to work well, but at times it seems to peel a bit. Taymia...well I have never had one issue with it and I would use it exclusivily if they made more F.S. colors. I love their IJN and IJA colors though.

smeagol the vile

if I have said it once I will say it a billion times.  There is NO better acrylic paint then Tamiya Acrylic.  Its perfect and I have had 0 problems with it, as opposed to the hundreds of times Iv had bad MM/testors stuff.

Tamiya acrylics are great for airbrushing, clean up well, but are a bit of a pain to brush by hand.  Just my experience. 

I've used Vallejo Model Color both hand brushing and airbrushing and they lay on ultra smooth.  Thin with deionized (distilled) water, lay on in thin coats, and they are like velvet.  Issue with them is depending on where you are, they can be a bit tough to get.  I got lucky when my LHS became the distributor up here in Minnesota.  Just waiting for them to starting bringing in the Model Air line.

That being said, I also use Future to partially thin my MM Acrylics when airbrushing, and that fixed the issue I had with the paint flaking off a while back.  I usually add a couple of drops in the paint cup with the normal 10% of their branded thinner and works fine for me.  It gives the paint a bit of a satin sheen, not dead flat, but something with that mix works.  I've used it on primed, unprimed, plastic, metal and never flakes off.

By the way, if you're having that issue with MM Acryls, then I would suggest staying away from both PolyScale and Floquil, as all three are chemically identical and made by the same manufacturer, then private labeled by the three companies.  Just an FYI.

I use MM acrylics almost exclusively, and they've rarely given m etrouble. Only times they have is when the surface wasn't clean enough or I got a bad batch with a color-shift or lack of opacity. I've never had flaking paint EVER, so you are either doing something wrong in application or weather could be an issue.. maybe humidity affects them? I really don't know the problem, just that they DO work.

   For what it's worth, I use MM enamels almost exclusively and Tamiya acrylics and love them both. But, that's why there's apples and oranges; whatever works for ya!

DoogsATX

I've tried Humbrol and White Ensign enamels, and I like Model Master better. 

They're harder to get your hands on, and harsher stuff, but Gunze's Mr Color lacquer paints are amazing, and if you want something that sticks, it's hard to do better IMO.

I'm working over a 1/32 262 right now with Mr Color, and I may never use anything else again for the main coats.  You can spray and spray and spray, and it never clogs or sputters no matter how low you go or close you get.  The color quality is incredible, and very consistent.  It should be written in stone, however, that thou shalt not use Mr Color without Mr Color Leveling Thinner.  I don't think it's that expensive... $14 for the big bottle, and that bottle will last a dozen 1/32 scale aircraft easily.

You absolutely do NOT need the Mr Color thinner to clean the brush.  Grab a cheap can of lacquer thinner from Home Depot for that.  Works like a charm.  I ordered a set of RLM shades and basic colors from HobbyWave, as they had them all in stock and do 'by the box' shipping, which really works out great if you're getting a bunch of stuff at once.  SprueBrothers carries them, but they have stock issues.  Nothing is more irritating than clicking through a website, selecting some RLM 81, some 82, a couple of 76... oh wait, they're out of RLM 02.  

The only issue with this stuff is that you can actually hear the Earth scream when you open the bottles.  Strap lines from the respirator also makes for interesting facial effects for half an hour or so after painting.

I still use Vallejo and some MM acryl for all the small parts.  It's just a nightmare trying to get them thinned just enough to spray fine cammo lines on the big pieces.  The chemistry required varies by paint color, humidity, astrological arrangement, etc.  Tamiya gets good press, but for best results you need to use their thinner, which IIRC is alcohol based.  Smelling up the joint contradicts the biggest advantage of putting up with acryls.

Great thread---good information and discussion. 

I think one basic difference between acrylics and enamels is the fact that enamels are "hot" paints---in other words, they "eat" into the plastic because their carrier is a solvent...probably explains the adhesion issues...

NervousEnergy

 

 

I'm working over a 1/32 262 right now with Mr Color, and I may never use anything else again for the main coats. 

Same here! Just finished up the RLM 78 coat on my 109 last night and I couldn't be happier:

I've been using the Mr Color Leveling Thinner as well, and cleaning up with some "green" lacquer thinner that's apparently less evil than the regular stuff. Certainly doesn't seem as harsh to work with. 

As an aside, I thin Tamiya paints with Mr Color Leveling Thinner as well...yeah it kind of ruins the point of acrylics, but the spray qualities are very consistent with Gunze Mr. Color. Tamiya paints will still dust if you spray too hard and from too far, but much less so than with X20A.

Man Doogs...you and Fermis are model building machines.

Hercmech

Man Doogs...you and Fermis are model building machines.

I dunno...fermis and kermit are both WAY faster than I am. I think my average is about 40 days on a build...I just try to keep 2-3 going at any given time, so it looks like I'm making a lot more progress than I am!

Ahh so that is the secret. I can barley keep one in work at a time much less mulitple ones. You guys constantly amaze me.

Mr color, Thats the first time I heard that name outside of Gunpla building

Hercmech

Ahh so that is the secret. I can barley keep one in work at a time much less multiple ones. You guys constantly amaze me.

Sort of like the Liberty/Victory shipbuilding programs. Having so many going at a time increases the number done within a specific time period. It does not actually increase the individual build speed...

But having so many going at one often sidetracks me from making more progress on any one kit because I have my finger in too many pies. (just under 30 kits in various stages of build... but I am knocking that number down currently)

stikpusher

 

Hercmech:

 

Ahh so that is the secret. I can barley keep one in work at a time much less multiple ones. You guys constantly amaze me.

 

 

Sort of like the Liberty/Victory shipbuilding programs. Having so many going at a time increases the number done within a specific time period. It does not actually increase the individual build speed...

But having so many going at one often sidetracks me from making more progress on any one kit because I have my finger in too many pies. (just under 30 kits in various stages of build... but I am knocking that number down currently)

30?!?

I like having just enough that I can jump around while waiting. Last night I finished up the RLM 78 on the 109, then pulled out the Sherman for the finishing touches. Tonight it'll be the RLM 79, then I'll be dragging out the Mosquito and finally starting in on it. Or maybe not, because I have to mask and I'm hoping to knock out the entire RLM 79 job tonight, fading and blending and all.

Yeah... when I counted just after New Years it was 30 or 31 I think. I have completed 3 of those since then and will have at least two more done in the next few days and hopefully a couple more by the end of next week.

Okay, it was a good discussion there for awhile...

Manstein's revenge

Okay, it was a good discussion there for awhile...

Sorry Herr Field Marshall ....I was under the influence of your spies!

Yes we deviated off topic without mentioning either Zuiho or Tirpitz..

Ok here is a question somewhat related- do the folks here who mainly use acrylics notice a difference in the same paint type when using an internal mix airbrush versus an external mix? I noticed that I tended to get more drying/clogging when using MM/PS acrylic paints with my new internal mix airbrush than with my older external mix airbrush.

i HAVE FOUND THAT A GOOD WAM SOAPY BATH OF THE SPRUES BEFORE STARTING HELPS....NEVER WHAT NASTY LITTLE OILS ARE ON YOUR PLASTIC....THEN A THIN COAT OF TAMIYA PRIMER.....GREAT STUFF....

I HAVE NEVER HAD PROBLEMS WITH MM ENAMELS....BUT THE ACRYL LINE...MAN THAT STUFF CLOGS UP YOU AB NOZZLE SOMETHING TERRIBLE....

OH AND SINCE THIS THREAD SEEMS TO BE HEADING DOWNHILL ALL I HAVE TO SAY IS...........

MEOUW!!!!!

CARLOS

Got to admit, I used to have problems with acrylics lifting but they have been good to me as of late. I do spend a bit more time with the prep work now though. A light once over with some steel wool and a good enamel rattle can primer coat and things seem to be good. Just finished a Hs129 with the 70/71 splinter scheme using MM acrylics. Had tape all over that baby, and I mean all over it! When it was all said and done, I had zero paint lift off when removing it. I also started using Tamiya tape, and some low tac painters tape, but mostly stick ( get it? stick??) with the Tamiya stuff.

BTW, get back to work on that Graf Spee stik!!!