I won't be using Model Master acrylics again.

Oh Jester... I am using MM Acrylics on my Spee, so am paticipating here with a vested interest. I did have some lifitng problems with those paints when removing some Tamiya tape. NEVER have had that happen before. I am varying the amount of MM Acrylic thinner I use to see if that has any effect on the adhesion of the paint or the later hardness.

gawga- I have the same problems with MM acrylic, even with a primer coat they peel off when dry. Plus they seem to airbrush poor for me. my airbrush tip clogs every 30/40 seconds even with a retarder. I switched to Gunze acrylic Mr. Hobby- the water soluble stuff. Its gods gift of paint...never clogs my airbrush. check great models first and if its out of stock just order it overseas. i've used http://www.model-making.eu to order from and everythings in stock and shipping is reasonable and it takes about 10 days for me to get it. No big deal. Gunze will solve your paint problems.

Nathan

Nathan is your airbrush internal or external mix?

stikpusher- its internal- an iwata hp cs eclipse. i'm not sure why i've had such a tough time with MM acrylic. i see it works good for some people. I just know it performs no where near gunze acrylic.

Nathan

two words: Alclad Primer.  I am spoiled by it now.  EVERYTHING adheres to that stuff.

Funny no one has mentioned LifeColor acrylics (that i have seen in this post).  I've had great luck with Luft mottling with it.  Nice satin finish and great colors too.

My only two bits- adhesion and drying problems seem to be always fixable on a case-by-case basis. Mostly a matter of prep, thinner or airbrush physics. Except my own personal bugaboo is that I cannot get Tamiya Flat black to stick well. And Gerald is correct, an top coat will not get you naything in terms of adhesion. One good way to figure out adhesion problems is to look at the inside face of the chip. Is it topcoat color? is it primer color?

I choose based on color accuracy, in particular to FS numbers. I don't much model RLM so I don't have much experience there, but there are good references around.

I don't think MM is too close usually to what it claims to be.

I LOVE Tamiya Flat Black. I used it on the Radome and Walkways on my F-8E then masked it off so no top coats would alter the finish. Pure dead flat- no slight sheen, nothin'!!!

MM does have issues with their Acryilic paints in my experience.

the biggest problem I have had ,,and have seen with acrylics..is either over-thinning or improper thinner concoctions

chipping/lifting is 90% ...improper thinning..temperature/humidity have minimal effect on acrylic paint(it's mostly water !)

the only difference between brands is ,some are more resilient to overthinning or improper thinning.

when you mix an acrylic down to a runny liquid suspension of pigment ...it's bonding property's  have been all but eliminated on most cases....the correct thinner and ratio within the paints capabilitys  will solve most issues.

Jumping in late here, but I have to add my .  Yeah, I dislike MM strongly as well, but I have a hard time getting a consistant spray from bottle to bottle as well as lifting.  Seems like every color (and even individual bottles within the same color) have more or less thickness to them.

Tamiya rocks, but yeah, super limited color choices.  I shoot a ton of Vallejo these days.  I make a mix of acrylic airbrush medium, distilled water, and a drop or two of future, and thin with that.  The Future 'toughens' the paint up a bit, and it lays down glass smooth. 

Hope you have better results next time!

Chris

stymye

the biggest problem I have had ,,and have seen with acrylics..is either over-thinning or improper thinner concoctions

chipping/lifting is 90% ...improper thinning..temperature/humidity have minimal effect on acrylic paint(it's mostly water !)

the only difference between brands is ,some are more resilient to overthinning or improper thinning.

when you mix an acrylic down to a runny liquid suspension of pigment ...it's bonding property's  have been all but eliminated on most cases....the correct thinner and ratio within the paints capabilitys  will solve most issues.

I will try less thinner on my next use of MM Acrylics and see what happens...

At this point I am becoming desperate.  Here's what has been going on.  For nearly 3 years I have been scratchbuilding a model; making parts, painting and attaching as I go along.  It is mixed media - maple, steel, aluminum, copper, brass and plastic.  Whenever a finished part of the model touches a hard surface of any type the semi-gloss MM paint chips off requiring that I continuously do touch-up, requiring now that I place finish-painted parts on toilet paper to prevent chipping and flaking.  Since I began this project with MM semi-gloss black and much of the small detail parts were done before this problem started I have no choice but to carry through to the end with MM. 

I am thinking of making an initial coat of Testor's enamel flat black and then overspray with the MM semi-gloss black - that way if it chips at least the Testor's should be visible.  Has anyone here tried that approach or will the MM not "marry" onto the enamel?  For decades I have relied on Testor's with no problems, however they are increasingly harder to find and the color selection is quite limited. 

I built my first model in 1956 when I was 6 years old:  an Aurora (?) biplane.  The contents of the box were 2 sheets of balsa preprinted with parts on them plus some tissue paper.  You had to cut out the parts yourself to build the model.  Not as much fun as you have it today!  The best acrylic paint I ever used was in the late 60's when Polly S came out.  Great paint.  My favorite has always been the old Floquil railroad paints which sprayed the best of any I have ever used.  The old original worked outstandingly on plastic; never a crazing problem.

gawga, that is a total bummer about the MM paint.  sorry to hear that.  i have had terrible luck with their acrylics so i feel your pain.

on a scrap piece of plastic that has the same MM paint can you try spraying a thin coat of lacquer primer?  it might bite right thru the acrylic and into the plastic.  but test it first to make sure it doesn't create some kind of flawed surface and that it cant be chipped away.  i did this once when i had problems with the MM acrylics on a plane.  then try the tamiya with their thinner on that same scrap piece and see if it recovers the situation.

good luck!

andy

My gripe is that it won't mix in the bottle, even with a battery operated mixer. The primer gray is okay, but the colored paint just won't mix. I'm beginning to appreciate enamels again.

    Never really cared for the MM acrylic line; very satisfied with their enamel though. I typically use MM enamel as a "base" coat so tho speak and use Tamiya acrylics for weathering etc. although iI like the color quality of the Tamiya for brush painting smaller items.I sometimes use the X-20 thinner but also have had good results with 90% alcohol and H2O in a 3:1 ratio.

Good.....God!  Feb 2011 to June 2012.  That's got to be close to a thread resurection record!

I had forgotten all about posting to this topic, had to re-read the whole thing!

Chris

Killjoy

Good.....God!  Feb 2011 to June 2012.  That's got to be close to a thread resurection record!

Nah, not even close - I've seen threads dredged up from 2006...

I saw a post here from 2004 where the author wrote that they were able to remove cured Tamiya acrylic from a model with Windex.  Does anyone know if there is a way to remove cured MM acrylic?  I got carried away spraying my first kit in 40 years and applied it a bit thick, obscuring my pre-shading.

Medea makes a product labeled as Airbrush Cleaner,,,,I use it after each session

but, instructions are included for cleaning a clogged airbrush,,,,,maybe it will work as a paint stripper, if put on and left for a long while?

Testors makes an acrylic cleaner that should strip it right off.

What are you thinning them with?  I had the same problem until I was informed that thinning the acrylic with water was not a good thing.  I had to dig a little deeper in my pockets and buy acrylic thinner.  I haven't had a problem with them since.

There is nothing wrong with model master paints. If there was they wouldn't sell so much. There must be a user cause that you haven't figured out. Go through the full process and see where you might go wrong in what you are doing. Very well may be a thinner issue. Don't blame the tools.

I think I had it thinned properly but was spraying in poor light and put on too many thin coats which obscured my pre-shading.  Until then, I was very happy with the results and loved the effect.  A valuable lesson learned.  I will try the Testor's thinner and maybe even a dab of laquer thinner in an obscure spot.  Otherwise, I guess I'll sand it back with a fine grit and touch up later.  This happened on the light blue bottom of an Fi 103, so I still have the topside to do.

Ummmm-

I don't think the laquer thinner is a good idea with acylic paints.  Use some denatured alcohol (marine stove fuel) to thin with.

montague

There is nothing wrong with model master paints. If there was they wouldn't sell so much. There must be a user cause that you haven't figured out. Go through the full process and see where you might go wrong in what you are doing. Very well may be a thinner issue. Don't blame the tools.

I disagree overall.There certainly seem to be quality control issues over the past few years as the same paints have inconsistancies. Either thicker or thinner just in the bottle after I have stirred them in the exact same manner that I have been using for years. They sell so well because often they are the only brand offered for sale at stores. They have bought up their old competition of Pactra, Floquil, and Polly S and then raised the prices on those lines before discontinuing those military color lines.

I'm switching from MM acylics to Tamiya. I just ordered $200 worth of Tamiya. I have had fantastic luck with the Tamiya acylics. I use the Tamiya acylic thinner too. It's a little more expensive but worth it to me if I have spent hundreds of hours on a model I want it to look nice.

Will

MM is only known for their enamels. MM acrylics need a good prime to set correctly. trust me, i know. I've tested primed vs un-primed. tamiya masking tape it will rip it up all day without a prime.

I hate MM Acryl.  I've pretty much sworn them off.  I always have issues with the paint lifting up with masking tape.

But...I'm working on a build right now that has a very unique paint scheme and MM Acryl had most of the colors straight out of the bottle.  So I primed the model with Tamiya Fine Surface primer and thinned the MM Acryl with lacquer thinner from Home Depot and it is sticking to the model really well.  The lacquer thinner makes it hot enough to bite into the primer.

Don't get me wrong...I'm still hate MM Acryl...but this model is turning out great.

I've had good luck with Acryl over a good prime - either Tamiya or Testors - with no lifting. With no primer, I have had some lifting issues. I still like them for their color selection.

OMCUSNR

Ummmm-

I don't think the laquer thinner is a good idea with acylic paints.  Use some denatured alcohol (marine stove fuel) to thin with.

Well I hate to be the Debbie downer, but unless the smell is an issue I think acrylics thin beautifuly with laquer thinners.

I had a happy mistake on my last build with MM acrylics. I could not get them to thin and out of frustration, I poured some laquer thinner in to clean the AB.

Low and behold it thinned wonderfuly, and I sprayed my whole Stuka in that mix. Came out great I think

Hercmech

OMCUSNR

Ummmm-

I don't think the laquer thinner is a good idea with acylic paints.  Use some denatured alcohol (marine stove fuel) to thin with.

Well I hate to be the Debbie downer, but unless the smell is an issue I think acrylics thin beautifuly with laquer thinners.

I had a happy mistake on my last build with MM acrylics. I could not get them to thin and out of frustration, I poured some laquer thinner in to clean the AB.

Low and behold it thinned wonderfuly, and I sprayed my whole Stuka in that mix. Came out great I think