Badger Krome or Paasche Talon

GreenThumb

"The atomization/spray pattern potential of all three is the same."

From the horses mouth so to speak.

The SOTAR 20/20 has 3 sets of needle/nozzle, fine, medium and large. Which one has the same pattern as the Velocity/Krome?

MODEL 2020-2
The 20/20® with mounted 1/12 oz. color cup allows for extended use before having to add color.

Fine (Black) - "Hair" line to 3/4" (19mm) spray pattern.
Medium (White ) - Pen line to 1" (25mm) spray pattern.
Large (Clear - Pencil line to 1-1/4" (31mm) spray pattern.

If all have the same atomization/spray pattern, why does Badger bother to make 3 different ones?

Wingman_kz

No, sorry keilau, I don't have the story. There's been some discussion about it on another board. At least one member, maybe two, bought them to try out and seemed happy with them. Don't know whether he changes the cup or buys without the cup mounted and installs his own. True, they aren't inexpensive and I don't intend to buy one but, they are  tuned up and dialed in. And, as someone said on yet another board, collecting airbrushes is much less expensive than say, building cars or bikes or collecting firearms. So, if someone wants one and has the money to spend then who am I to tell them they don't need it. I'm not telling them they do either. Just that it's out there.

However, the first time that I pulled the trigger on my $73 Revolution CR that I got for $65 shipped on sale I immediately noticed a difference. But it wasn't overpriced so I guess I don't fit in that top 10%. Just your average Joe. Or...

Tony

If the new *** is anything like the old one, the changes of the airbrush is clearly noticable. I have both the standard Richpen 213C and the old ***, and difference in feel and performance is there, even for the novice. The standard 213C, even when equipped with a 0.2mm nozzle setup will not produce as tight and clean lines, so Learns tuning does work. The *** simply feels a lot smoother and easier to find that thin line with.

My guess is that he reached a point where obtaining more of the out of production 213 became a to costly, and that he approached different airbrush manufacturers for a new airbrush to enhance. The Talon is a sound construction, and it isn't very expensive. And probably it has good tuning potential. I've only tried the Talon once, and based on that experience, my guess is that a better balanced, and smoother version could be a very good airbrush.

I've been comparing airbrush "collecting" to other hobbies for years, and it feels good that other have started to see the same thing. Even when buying the high end models, it is quite affordable compared to many other hobbies or sports. I have airbrushes of most brands and models, and I feel that it is an enjoyable little hobby in itself, that works well with my modelling hobby. And I get a lot more pleasure per spent dollar (or krona, really) out of buying "overpriced japanese airbrushes" than I got from any of my other hobbies. Friends call me crazy spending $500 on an airbrush, and in the next moment they tell me about the fantastic golf club or digital camera they just purchased....

denstore

If the new *** is anything like the old one, the changes of the airbrush is clearly noticable. I have both the standard Richpen 213C and the old ***, and difference in feel and performance is there, even for the novice. The standard 213C, even when equipped with a 0.2mm nozzle setup will not produce as tight and clean lines, so Learns tuning does work. The *** simply feels a lot smoother and easier to find that thin line with.

My guess is that he reached a point where obtaining more of the out of production 213 became a to costly, and that he approached different airbrush manufacturers for a new airbrush to enhance. The Talon is a sound construction, and it isn't very expensive. And probably it has good tuning potential. I've only tried the Talon once, and based on that experience, my guess is that a better balanced, and smoother version could be a very good airbrush.

The new Mojo3 costs just over $200. It is cheaper than many of the Iwata models. If Mike Learn's majic works as the old ones, it will make that quite a buy.

Mike Learn makes a big point about his needle using the 440C stainless steel. According to a study done by an Italian Professor on What is an Iwata airbrush made of? The Iwata needle is just plain 304 stainless steel. Prof. Zsolt compared it to the Paasche needle and noted that Paasche used molybdenum dopped steel which is superior to the 304 (much harder). But he concluded that the Iwata needle is the better one and less prone to bending. It is the manufacturing process that makes the difference. Iwata uses a nickel based superalloy to make the nozzle of both the Micro and Eclipse series airbrush. Not sure what the Talon nozzle is made of.

Mike Learn sells his needle and nozzle really cheap. I wonder if they can be used to improve the plain Talon? Yes, I understand that the large paint cup makes the Talon poorly balanced and it will not be the same as the Mojo3.

What is holding you back from getting the Mojo3? Can I expect to see a review from you soon?

keilau

 

GreenThumb:

 

"The atomization/spray pattern potential of all three is the same."

From the horses mouth so to speak.

 

 

The SOTAR 20/20 has 3 sets of needle/nozzle, fine, medium and large. Which one has the same pattern as the Velocity/Krome?

MODEL 2020-2
The 20/20® with mounted 1/12 oz. color cup allows for extended use before having to add color.

Fine (Black) - "Hair" line to 3/4" (19mm) spray pattern.
Medium (White ) - Pen line to 1" (25mm) spray pattern.
Large (Clear - Pencil line to 1-1/4" (31mm) spray pattern.

If all have the same atomization/spray pattern, why does Badger bother to make 3 different ones?

No Keilau, that was in reference to the Velocity, Krome and Sotar 20/20 when I said "all three"

GreenThumb

keilau:

GreenThumb:

"The atomization/spray pattern potential of all three is the same."

From the horses mouth so to speak.

The SOTAR 20/20 has 3 sets of needle/nozzle, fine, medium and large. Which one has the same pattern as the Velocity/Krome?

MODEL 2020-2
The 20/20® with mounted 1/12 oz. color cup allows for extended use before having to add color.

Fine (Black) - "Hair" line to 3/4" (19mm) spray pattern.
Medium (White ) - Pen line to 1" (25mm) spray pattern.
Large (Clear - Pencil line to 1-1/4" (31mm) spray pattern.

If all have the same atomization/spray pattern, why does Badger bother to make 3 different ones?

 

 No Keilau, that was in reference to the Velocity, Krome and Sotar 20/20 when I said "all three"

Mike, I understood what you meant when saying "all three". But there are 3 different versions of the SOTAR which have distinctive different atomization/patterns. The question was : Which SOTAR is the Renegade similar to?

Intuitively, I will think that should be the SOTAR with a linear air flow angle that is the same as the Renegade. But in the recent web site, Badger does not publish the different spec of the 3 SOTAR anymore. From older Badger literature, I just know that the fine (used to be called ultra fine) needle of SOTAR had a smaller angle than the Renegade Krome.

What do you know about the different SOTAR?

Keilau, the "standard" Sotar 20/20 comes with the medium (white) needle and I assume it is what Ken was talking about when he told me it was the same spray pattern basically as the standard Krome and Velocity.

I would have to ask Ken for any specifics you are talking about.

GreenThumb

Keilau, the "standard" Sotar 20/20 comes with the medium (white) needle and I assume it is what Ken was talking about when he told me it was the same spray pattern basically as the standard Krome and Velocity.

I would have to ask Ken for any specifics you are talking about.

Most SOTAR seller asked you to select the needle/tip size when ordering. It is a $400 airbrush with a street price about $300. It is a lot more airbrush than most modeler would need. On the other hand, the Krome was designed with inputs from modeler Cyrus Tang and price at about $120.

Ken published the linear air flow angles for the Renegades. He used to do the same for SOTAR, but those SOTAR spec disappeared recently.

I don't know Keilau as linear flow angles and all that mechanical engineering jargon doesn't matter a whole lot to me.

I just go by the results I see when I use an airbrush. What the cone and needle size and taper is are inconsequential to me as an airbrush user.

I have two airbrushes,,,  a Paasche single action and a Paasche double action.  I've been using them for many many years. I have no complaints.