The Omni debarcle continues

Sean,

Contact Ken at Badger and ask him about it.
He will get your problem taken care of I am sure.
kenbadger@aol.com

Mike

tweety, my omni and yours must have been assembled on friday!! mine sprayed fine for a while and now all of a sudden it wont spray fine lines without doing what your talking about no matter the thinning ratio or psi. its very frustrating and is what caused me to try another brand of airbrush to see if it was me. it wasnt, i tried the iwata line and havent looked back. but its a sad situation as i really enjoyed the omni for while and now i hardly use it if any. as a matter of fact, its over at my workbench hooked up to the compressor after trying it one more time to see if it might of been me. ive been spraying with my hp-c and hp-cs with no problems what so ever so i thought i'd try the same mixture in the omni but i get the morse code effect or spiders every time. its gotta be something internal with some part that has gotten damaged or something. my airbrushing experience is limited to about a 18 months of experience, but i know enough to understand that its not me. if you find out anything from ken, pass it on to me please as i'd like to use my omni occasionally. later.

Sean,

I emailed Ken and told him about you having a problem with the Omni and he said he will do his best to help you out.

Mike

maybe its a sign to buy an iwata.... JUST KIDDING!!! maybe its the trigger action causing the needle to be skewed

QUOTE: Originally posted by MikeV Sean, I emailed Ken and told him about you having a problem with the Omni and he said he will do his best to help you out. Mike

Excellent reason right there to like Badger. That is encouraging to me, I love some good customer service. Hopefully everything will come out okay for you guys. I look forward to hearing some followup on this one.

Thanks Mike, curious to know what Ken has in mind.

Ultimately the best option would be to send it back, but by the time you factor in freight costs, it will work out to the price of a new Badger or Iwata.
If it must go back, then so be it.

I feel it is the bearing seal adjuster personally, but for all I know could be the body that isn't right.
Wait and see I s'pose.

QUOTE: Originally posted by maddafinga Excellent reason right there to like Badger. That is encouraging to me, I love some good customer service. Hopefully everything will come out okay for you guys. I look forward to hearing some followup on this one.

Josh,

What is even more encouraging is that the owner of the largest airbrush manufacturing company in the world is willing to help out someone like that despite his busy schedule. He told me that he went to LA last thursday, went to NY on saturday, got back from NY on wednesday, and leaves for vegas tonight.

Mike

I wish you lived closer tweety1 as I would send you my Omni 4000 so that you would have an airbrush to use and I would try yours out and see if I can get it to work.

Mike

I'm at school right now, but when I get home tonight I'll check my Omni 5000 to see if it askews like you are referring to. So far the only problems I have encountered since purchasing about the same time you did, has been all me!! LOL But I haven't really had to spray any fine lines as of yet. The only fine lines I've sprayed have been all in practice everytime I have some leftover paint in the cup. Could the needle itself be manufactured incorrectly, I wonder?? Perhaps it just wasn't machined right?? Just a guess of course, and I do not doubt you one bit.....I hope that Mike can help you figure out your problem, and it will be a good lesson for all of us.

I dusted off my Omni 4000, Vega and Badger airbrushes and took a look at each of the airbrushes needle and nozzle assembly.

You should have a nice straight line through the airbrush. The needle must have a straight line to the nozzle. Yes, no bends in the system. I have two guesses. One is that either the nozzle is not seated right and pushing the needle up at an angle, so check for foreign matter in the nozzle seat. Or, two, there is a bit of foreign material in the nozzle pushing the needle into an angle. A particle lodged in the nozzle either from the paint (most likely) or in manufacturing would cause a build-up of paint and would eventually exaggerate the angle problem. A clog normally will not come out the tip with more air pressure because the clog will be thicker than the tip and the clog will just get lodged deeper.

Find a thin wire and GENTLY twist it through the nozzle. Make sure the wire is the same thickness as the nozzle tip or smaller or you run the chance of flaring the nozzle tip. Clean the airbrush thoroughly and try to airbrush again. Try airbrushing with water first.

If there was foreign matter in the nozzle and it is not there you might still have damaged the nozzle. They are very delicate. Check to see that the nozzle was not flared outwards from the needle pushing against the nozzle. You would need a 7x magnifier to look a the nozzle. A flared nozzle would make paint sputter.

OK, a third guess. Also check at the needle seat between the paint chamber and the air trigger to make sure it is centered. If it is decentered it would push the needle to an angle.

There should not be a bent or binding in the airbrush.

Heck, I even looked in my Iwata HP-B, HP-C and HP-CR for bends. Iwata does not bend their needles either.

Lastly, tell the store the "professionals" say to return the AB and give you a new one because it is defective and the store is honored to sell you a working product. Do it ADAMANTLY, INSISANTLY...WITH DETERMINATION.

I hope you don't have to mail the airbrush back. It would cost money and the lack of use of the airbrush would bore you.

I checked my airbrushes and all of them have the needle slightly off center of the tip when the needle is drawn back, that is just how they are.
When I pull the trigger back on my HP-CS I can even see the needle and needle chuck in the handle move upwards slightly and not perfectly straight back.

Mike

So if it was normal, my airbrushes look normal, then maybe the clog theory still stands?

Good question roosterfish.
I wish I could try it out and see what he is talking about.

Mike

Sean,

Could you explain one more time exactly what is happening with the Omni?
What paint are you using? Thinning ratio? Air pressure?

Mike

QUOTE: Originally posted by kik36 I'm at school right now, but when I get home tonight I'll check my Omni 5000 to see if it askews like you are referring to.

I looked at my 3000 when he made his first post, and the needle is dead center of the nozzle on it. When I pull the trigger back I see the hole opening up the same amount all around the needle tip.

Perhaps that is the difference between the 3000 and the others though. Mike, isn't the 3000 the only Omni without a "Needle Bearing" , and for that matter, exactly what IS a needle bearing?

QUOTE: Originally posted by MusicCity I looked at my 3000 when he made his first post, and the needle is dead center of the nozzle on it. When I pull the trigger back I see the hole opening up the same amount all around the needle tip.

I have an Omni 3000 "Scooter Shooter" which is a slightly modified version of the Omni 3000 and it is also slightly off-center as I already mentioned. It is not enough to change the spray pattern enough to tell but it is still there.

QUOTE: Perhaps that is the difference between the 3000 and the others though. Mike, isn't the 3000 the only Omni without a "Needle Bearing" , and for that matter, exactly what IS a needle bearing?

Scott,

A needle bearing is designed to keep paint in the front part of the airbrush and not allow paint to reach the air valve assembly. It is also used to align the needle with the bore of the body of the airbrush. The Omni 3000 has what is called a "Line-bore" design in which it does not use a needle bearing. I am not sure of the advantages or disadvantages of this design but I can find out for you if you are interested.

Mike

QUOTE: A needle bearing is designed to keep paint in the front part of the airbrush and not allow paint to reach the air valve assembly. It is also used to align the needle with the bore of the body of the airbrush. The Omni 3000 has what is called a "Line-bore" design in which it does not use a needle bearing. I am not sure of the advantages or disadvantages of this design but I can find out for you if you are interested.

Thanks, Mike. I would be interested in knowing. If there are advantages to it I might try to add one from another Omni model or fabricate something that would work. I'm very content with my Omni, and have no desire to get anything different, but I'm not opposed to a little "Hot Rodding" either

QUOTE: Maybe I'm acting a tad foolish on this, but something tells me this isn't right for an airbrush carrying such a heavy reputation

I don't think you are being foolish at all. If it isn't working right you should try and get it right. Not being able to paint more than an inch or two without havint the tip dry out is not right. I don't know if it's the paint or the airbrush, but Badger is a first-rate company and I think they'll do what they can to help.

Mike, I use both Tamiya and Gunze acrylics.
I have gone through around 5 pots of each brand while testing this brush, and have used thinner ratios from 50/50 to both sides of the scale.ie more paint/less thinner, less paint/more thinner.

While trying the above, the air pressure has been increased and decreased from 50 psi down to 5 psi at 2 psi intervals.

The needle has scuff marks on 1/3 of it's circumferance, and these sit roughly where the needle bearing is situated in the brush body.

A picture would be alot easier, but I have no idea how to place a picture in your post, let alone getting a decent enough image to show exactly whats happening.

Sean

tweety, my needle is off centered when i draw the trigger back and like mike said, it is so with my 2 iwatas as well. it doesnt effect my 2 iwatas spray pattern though so i dont think that has anything to do with our problem.

mike, email me your mailing address and i'll send you my omni 5000 and let you play with it and see what gives. mine is doing the exact same thing as tweety's it seems and i've put 3 or 4 brand new tips and needles in, varying psi and thinning ratios with no luck. maybe you can find the problem with mine then help tweety with his. the only difference between a 5000 and 4000 is the size of the cup. let me know if your interested and i'll ship it to you along with some money to return it with. let me emphasize the word "RETURN". later.

QUOTE: Originally posted by tweety1 Mike, I use both Tamiya and Gunze acrylics. I have gone through around 5 pots of each brand while testing this brush, and have used thinner ratios from 50/50 to both sides of the scale.ie more paint/less thinner, less paint/more thinner. While trying the above, the air pressure has been increased and decreased from 50 psi down to 5 psi at 2 psi intervals.

I wonder if it is just because of the nature of acrylics along with that warm weather you have down under? Can you try enamels such as Model Master and see how they react?

QUOTE: The needle has scuff marks on 1/3 of it's circumferance, and these sit roughly where the needle bearing is situated in the brush body.

My Omni 4000 has the same marks on it's needle and it is normal.
If the needle did not have scuff marks on it then the bearing would not be sealing tight enough to do it's intended job.

Mike

Maybe the pigments in the paint are too large for the airbrush? Or at some time a large pigment got stuck in the brush at some point and is still lodged in the nozzle to build up and cause a dry tip problem.

Sorry, I'm still thinking along the clog angle.

rooster, i thought the same thing about my omni 5000. the only paint that i ever found that would spray well through the omni was tamiya acrylics. when i tried enamels, it would either spider or morse code if i tried the fine line. then, after about 3 weeks of not using the omni, i picked it up to do a little practicing with it and couldn't get the fine line i was accustom to with the tamiya or anything else. as you know, the omni is not complicated to breakdown and clean. i did a thourough clean making sure there was no debree anywhere, reassembled it and had the same result. then, i changed the needle and tip thinking that something may have been damaged, and i got the same results. i have no clue whats wrong with it but i'm thinking that tweety and i may have the same problem. later.

roosterfish,

I think they just need to come out here to CA where the weather is perfect for painting.

Mike

QUOTE: Originally posted by saltydog rooster, i thought the same thing about my omni 5000. the only paint that i ever found that would spray well through the omni was tamiya acrylics. when i tried enamels, it would either spider or morse code if i tried the fine line. then, after about 3 weeks of not using the omni, i picked it up to do a little practicing with it and couldn't get the fine line i was accustom to with the tamiya or anything else. as you know, the omni is not complicated to breakdown and clean. i did a thourough clean making sure there was no debree anywhere, reassembled it and had the same result. then, i changed the needle and tip thinking that something may have been damaged, and i got the same results. i have no clue whats wrong with it but i'm thinking that tweety and i may have the same problem. later.

This is truly an odd case, as my Omni 5000 is spoiled, and eats MM enamels for breakfast. And I'm too good to her to make her eat Acry. I haven't had the spidering effects when I do a fine line, unless I accidentally pull the trigger back too far, and then it's a paint explosion!!! LOL I didn't notice my tip going slightly off center when I pulled it back though. Perhaps I'm blind, as Mike says that they should all do that?! I can honestly say without embarassment that this goes well beyond my knowledge and understanding. The Omni is a pretty simple break down, so you would think that it would be easy to trace.

QUOTE: Originally posted by kik36 Perhaps I'm blind, as Mike says that they should all do that?!

Actually they shouldn't do that but most do to a degree.

Mike

Today is a nice ice cream eating day in CA. I couldn't resist, it is so nice today and the ice cream truck came down the street conveniently stopping in front of my house...OK, I waved him down. I'm sure MikeV will do the same.

OK, serious now, and fast before the ice cream melts. If the problems isn't in the paint area then how about in the air supply. Any clogs in the air valve or the air passage to the paint?

I'm going to try my Omni 4000 and see if I have a problem.

Moving to a better climate would definately be an option, but trying to convince the missuss to do that so I can ab might be a tad difficult

I would like to try other paints, but seeing as I have close to 100 pots of Tamiya and Gunze, if I bought 1 more paint pot, I would definately have time to model, as the missuss would leave me

I am 100% positive it is not paint clogging issues, or damage to parts of the brush, as I have tried different needle and nozzle combinations with the spares I ordered.

I have also tried 4 different types of retarder, and still no joy.

As for the ice cream man, he comes round here every Sunday, and we can eat our ice cream no problem, providing we eat it between the ice cream van and the front door, otherwise we end up with soup inside 5 minutes.

The air supply is fine, I added an external tank to keep the pressure up and continuous, and I have a filter and 2 water traps in line, so it rules that out.
The second trap was a good idea, as the we have an evaporative air con, and after I added the second trap, I was surprised to see how much moisture actually gets passed the first trap.

Saltydogs idea sounds pretty good to me, and hopefully Mike will be able to come up with a theory as to what the ? is going on.

If there is no joy, then I will have no option but to use the Omni for general coverage, and purchase an IWATA HP-BS for finer detail.

Tweety and Saltydog,

How are you tightening the head on your Omni's?
Are you using a wrench?

Mike

My Omni 4000 works like an airbrush should. No problems. Even with a straight needle I didn't have a problem. If I bent the needle I can spray around corners with ease.
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Just kidding. My Omni works perfectly.