Iwata/Badger Wars...

QUOTE: it has to do with wear and tear.

On page one (sorry, forgot who) someone had their Iwata since 1983! I suspect they used it more than twice in those 2 decades. If that's not wear n' tear, then my friend I don't know what is.

I also heard another story of one member (sorry, forgot who again! ) using the same needle in their Iwata for 3 decades! The same needle, and the performance was still good as new. And I don't think he used that just twice in 3 decades! Now don't get me wrong MikeV. I don't hate bagder at all. I think Iwata and bagder are some of the ones on the top. Iwata's AB catalogue has interviews with proud Iwata users and they interviewed an automotive painter, a signmaker, a model-builder, an illustrator, and even a taxidermist! They all said great things about their indestructable iwatas and I suspect that the automotive painter and the signmaker use their AB's everyday for long periods of time too. I don't want to bring discredit upon an AB i've never used, I'm just defending my indestructable iwata and your defending your indestructable bagder.

Sorry my Badgers are not indestructable and neither is any airbrush.

Mike

You know what I mean, they both last. Nothings indestructable-thats a whole new topic right there-but I hope everyone gets the point...

QUOTE: [i] And because you have never heard of it happening means that it doesn't? Call Dave Monnig at Coast Airbrush tomorrow and ask him about it. He is a big Iwata dealer and he will tell you what we are telling you.

A dealer is not necessarily a user. A user could possibly have more knowledge of a tool and its ability then a seller of tools. Wouldn't you say after years of use that you have more knowledge of what your airbrushes are capable of than a person that sold you the airbrush?

I don't go around quoting other people very often to back me up on anything. I stand on my two feet and look objectively at a situation. My Iwata airbrushes have been dunked in thinner before, one since 1983, and no part has ever been replaced on any of them. Consider that a testimony of a good airbrush design.

You may contact your Iwata dealer friend Dave Monnig tomorrow morning to have him call me a liar. Will your friend, a dealer of Iwata airbrushes, testify that my Iwata, sight unseen, did not survive 21 years of use in all different liquid media including lacquer thinner? Will he say my Iwata O-ring is gone, just like the Badger Sotar airbrush that failed? You can have your friend tell me off, testify that I am absolutely wrong, so you can be happy. But I will know the real answer. My Iwata airbrush HAS SURVIVED REPEATED dunkings in lacquer thinner. You are not going to convince me that it has not.

I do not need to contact anyone one to back me up. I've used my Iwata for 21 years and know what it is capable of doing. You and Dave are telling me I don't know what it is capable of doing. Give me a break Mike and quit talking down to me. I might have learned one or two things about my airbrushes in the 30 years I have used them. I could never know as much as you about all the airbrushes but I do know one brand of airbrush very well.

I don't think you can answer the thinner dunking question objectively unless someone wants to donate some airbrushes to ruin in lacquer thinner that they paid hard earned cash for. They could if they get their airbrushes for free.

Again, I was not subjective. I was objective when I showed the testimony directly from the Badger web site. I left the readers to make an opinion of the Sotar. I left the Badger web link so people could see and make an objective decision about the Badger Sotar. I would do the same for an Iwata airbrush. The guy who got lacquer thinner in his Badger Sotar broke the airbrush because an O-ring was ruined.

QUOTE: None of my Iwata airbrushes O-rings have dissolved? Has anyone else’s Iwata airbrush got dissolved O-rings?

Well, I don't have an Iwata but I do have two Badgers. One of them is about 12 years old. Both have sprayed everything from laquer to acrylic, and I have never had an o-ring problem.

roosterfish,

I am not saying your Iwata has not survived lacquer as you have told us that it indeed has. I am telling you what experts recommend and Dave Monnig that I told you about is not only a dealer he has been an airbrush user his entire life and he is good friends with some of the top airbrush users in the world including Noah, Craig Fraser, Terry Hill, and many others.
He even has a video out on airbrush maintenance and many consider him one of the top airbrush authorities in the world.
It is possible that an airbrush can survive lacquer thinner after being submerged, but it is not common and it is not recommended and that was the point we were trying to get across.
Here is a quote from a link on Iwatas web site in the "Common Questions" section:

Q: Is an airbrush hard to keep clean?

A: To maintain the airbrush, simply flush it with the appropriate paint cleaning agent--Medea Airbrush Cleaner for water-based paints and paint thinner for oil-based paints. Never immerse or soak an entire airbrush. Follow up with an application of Medea Super Lube for continued smooth operation. (emphasis mine)

Now why would Iwata link you to a web site that gives false information on their product if an Iwata can indeed be submerged?

The story about the Sotar I am not denying at all because it is obvious that the guy who soaked it in lacquer made a grave mistake as that is not a wise thing to do for any brand of airbrush.

Mike

QUOTE: I've heard a bad thing or two about the sturdiness of the body or something similar. I don't remember exactly what now as it was a while back.

I think that was Plum1030 who commented on that.


It might have been me. I found the handle very fragile. I do like my sotar, I just like the Iwata better. Though lately I've been using my Badger 100LG about half the time.

Yep, I'm calling it the Iwata/Bagder wars...

Look, bagder is a good company with good AB's and Iwata is a good company with good AB's too. I think it's common sense to not soak an AB-ANY COMPANY'S AB-in laquor thinner or any thinner. Now calling up this guy dave at mooning airbrushes or whatever is kinda overkill-like using an 88mm anti-aircraft gun for hunting deer. Both company's are both very respectible and great. It's a war againts a die-hard bagder fan and some loyal Iwata fans and nobody's gonning to win-their both great.

Here we go again. The ol' badger and iwata controversy. Well said armor master. Even if someone uses a garden hose as his airbrush, he will still considered it as the best airbush. Think the best thing will happen (I hope), is that badger and iwata will merge companies.

QUOTE: Originally posted by sigman Think the best thing will happen (I hope), is that badger and iwata will merge companies.

That would be like Ford and Chevy or chocolate and vanilla merging. Some things are just not meant to be.

I'm bored at work so I'm going to step up and beat the horse again.

If I could only buy one, Iwata. But I'm very happy to have my sotar and 100LG along side my HP-CS

So I use both. I never could get my pasche H or VL to work for me and I just recently tried my aztek again and while it worked well for me in the past, I can't see myself ever using it again. The Omni now collects dust until I put it on ebay.

Is the horse still dead?

Not untill MikeV gets in here

QUOTE: Originally posted by ArmorMaster Not untill MikeV gets in here

especially after the dusty Omni!

mine collects dust too plum since the arrival of the iwatas. later.

I just read all three pages. It was like reading about a fist fight or a hocky game.

QUOTE: Originally posted by cmarks1965 I just read all three pages. It was like reading about a fist fight or a hocky game.

or a "Disaster Area" concert!!

i like to think of it as friendly differences of opinion. i dont think anyone on here is upset with the other. even close friends have differences of opinion guys. i'm sure both rooster and mike will say the same. ive used both badger and iwata airbrushes and can achieve the same line with both. i just prefer iwata and will recommend iwata every time over badger. thats just salty's opinion. if your airbrushing budget is not much, i would purchase an omni 4000 or 5000 and let it rip. if you have a little extra to spend, iwata hp-cs is worth it in my opinion. later.

Why are you guys calling this an Iwata vs Badger thread?
The main debate was whether it is alright to soak an entire airbrush in lacquer and the answer is no it should not, end of story....period!
If people think it is alright to do so then I wish you all the luck in the world and stock up on O rings as you will need them eventually.

Mike

QUOTE: Originally posted by saltydog mine collects dust too plum since the arrival of the iwatas. later.

Since the arrival of my Iwata HP-CS my Omni 4000 has continued to be used and the Iwata is gathering dust.

Mike

I think they are both good, they have their strengths in different areas, comparing them is like comparing iwata to aztek or harder &steenbeck evolution limited to the iwata revolution bcr. they are different. oranges vs apples: same old

QUOTE: Since the arrival of my Iwata HP-CS my Omni 4000 has continued to be used and the Iwata is gathering dust.

i hear you bubba!!

QUOTE: The main debate was whether it is alright to soak an entire airbrush in lacquer and the answer is no it should not, end of story....period!

Actually, the guys guy that decided to change it was me, because 2/3 pages sounds like a written fistfight in a battle that can't be won between two great companies. And, to keep everyone on track this did actually start out as an Iwata Micron question, not soaking ABes in thinner! It got a little, um whats the word, ah yes !!! And I allready declared that any AB soaking in thinner overnight was bad, from any company's AB, so let's try this thread again, take two. DOES ANYBODY OWN THE IWATA MICRON? IF SO, HOW IS IT?

I've heard the Sotar 2020 is pretty good too

Haven't used one. The price is too rich for me but i'm sure its one piece of precision airbrush.
Now, who will seconded me to ArmorMaster's retopic?

I used to own one and may get one again. It is a nice airbrush but like I posted at the end of my earlier post it is going to be a hassle to spray model paint through because of the pigment size. Even spraying watercolors or Holbien Aeroflash paint the tip still experiences tip dry. These are artist grade paints and the pigments are of a better quality . You can use a micron but you are going to really have to thin the model paint, it will be like spraying transparent paint and take many layers to cover.
John

I agree with John.

What many people do not realize is that the reason they make smaller tips and needles is to accomodate thinner mediums with finer pigments, not to spray finer lines with any paints out there.
To get a Micron to spray the way it was designed you need to spray inks, water colors, dyes, and other medium with extremely fine pigments.
With paints like Model Master enamels and most acrylics, you will get just as fine of a spray pattern and better flow through an airbrush with a larger tip and needle than the Micron, so why pay $300 for something that will not perform the way it was designed to perform? If you want the finest lines possible then the Paasche AB Turbo is the one to get, but you are back to the same problems as John explained with the Micron.

Mike

I don't want to mess with the turbo actually, I kind of think the offset head would mess with me for a while. I plan to spray with inks and watercolors mostly, but I don' t plan on modeling with whatever brush I get. I've already got a very nice modeling airbrush. I want an illustration brush now.

Madda, very nice work on your web site!! For illustration the Micron is a excellent airbrush, very expensive and parts are too but if you can afford it, go for it. I didn't notice that much a difference between the micron b that I had and a regular hp-b. You might wan to take a look at a Aerograph super 93 or Aerograph premier airbrush. They are very nice and superb at spraying art/illustration paints. They will spray just as good as the micron as far as atomization of paint and line and spray quality. Again from my experience. Good luck on whatever airbrush you buy.
John