Dilemma - Iwata Eclipse BS, CS or SBS...?

I had to read that twice jay. You actually answered you own question- "low budget."

If all you want to do is very fine detail work with it, the BS may be enough. Just how much work would you do with it at one time anyway?

I'll let you continue to bang your head longer now, Cheers.

Drew

Jim - I only own the HP-CS out of that line up... so I can only tell you what I think of that brush.. great all around brush for modeling, it can handle wide coverage and fine detail with a snap.  I switched from siphon fed to gravity with the same fear of the cup, and really it isn't an issue at all.  The only way it would really get in your line of vision is if you were aiming straight down the barrel of the airbrush (like a gun) ...

This brush is a joy to spray with, it atomizes better than any other brush I have owned, including my Iwata HP-CR.  I can shoot any kind of paint out of it with ease and clean up is minutes.. a huge difference (to me) from my siphon feds. 

I just reread what you posted as Drew did and agree, if ALL you are going for is fine dtail work the HP-BS would be a very good choice, if you want a brush that you can switch from fine spraying and do some more moderate to wide work with the same color without switching brushes then the HP-CS is the one.  Not knocking the SBS but I am not sure I would like the side cup, and not knowing anyone who owns one makes me cautious to buy 'sight unseen'.

DrewH wrote:

You actually answered you own question- "low budget." Just how much work would you do with it at one time anyway? Drew

Actually what I meant by low budget, is that I'm not ready to invest $330. or $385. for one AB. Like I mentioned earlier, I wouldn't mind moving up from an Eclipse $109. to a Plus $159. if in fact there would be a noticeable difference. Heck, I'm not all to sure getting a Micron is really worth it. I know a few people that spray fantastic murals on car hoods without one. That is what I might end up doing, larger murals such as on vehicles. So I thought having the larger paint cup might be best, but was affraid it would get in the way.

tho9900 wrote:

Jim - I only own the HP-CS out of that line up... The only way it would really get in your line of vision is if you were aiming straight down the barrel of the airbrush (like a gun) ...

That's what I wasn't sure about. Will I need to aim down the barrel for doing intricate work.

if ALL you are going for is fine dtail work the HP-BS would be a very good choice, if you want a brush that you can switch from fine spraying and do some more moderate to wide work with the same color without switching brushes then the HP-CS is the one.  Not knocking the SBS but I am not sure I would like the side cup, and not knowing anyone who owns one makes me cautious to buy 'sight unseen'.

That's just it... at what point am I going to be switching between the BCS and the ?S during large projects? I guess a trip to my buddies shop is in order.

Thanks guys 

I'm not sure (don't have the exploded parts list in front of me at the moment) but I thought that the BS, CS, and SBS differed only in the piece(s) that made up the front of the airbrush and held the paint.  Other than the paint cup, I was under the impression tht they were the same handle, needle, nozzle, etc.  

Storch wrote:

I thought that the BS, CS, and SBS differed only in the ... paint cup, I was under the impression tht they were the same handle, needle, nozzle, etc.

Hey Storch, that and a spring or two you are correct.

Guess I was too long winded earlier. 
The size of the paint cup and difference between the Eclipse vs. High Performance series is the main issue for relieving my BCS or fine details. I'd possibly be working with two different colors loaded in each AB while doing a project.

Update:

I called my buddy at the auto shop. I'll be heading down there within this coming week for a hands on testing session.

He got used to aiming off center and not down the barrel so to speak, so he doesn't mind the larger cup. He thinks I will do just fine with the Eclipse instead of the HP-Plus.

Let you guys know how I make out.

Thanks for your help. 

Jim - I was going to reply when you mentioned going talk to your buddy but the missus was insistent she be fed lunch, so that intervened.

Like you mentioned, I shoot 'off center' so to speak  I don't worry about aiming with the airbrush, I watch where the paint goes on the model instead.  I guess I have a feel for it now because I really don't line up or anything.  Good luck to you!  If you get the CS I think you will be really pleased, of course any of the ones you mentioned would have been good since they are all so similar.  

Tom, lunch with the missus is very important... hope it was good. 

I had a fairly long talk with my buddy and I'm leaning towards the CS with the bigger paint cup. Will have to see how it goes on test/practice day LOL.

Speaking of Iwata Eclipses, I know the above mentioned brushes have Teflon needle bearings but does the BCS have one as well for spraying enamels or other solvent based paints?

 

E

Don't want to confuse the issue but I had to add my $.02.  I have several Iwata's and a Peak C-5.  All nice airbrushes but pale in comparison to the Harder & Steenbeck Evolution 2 in 1.  For about $158.00 U.S from Obeelik's you get an airbrush that comes with two color cups, two needles and a pre-set handle.  It breaks down faster than the Iwata and you can remove the needle from the front of the airbrush. I was never happy pulling my dirty needle back through the airbrush body.  This airbrush is nicely engineered and balanced.  It also has solvent proof seals.  At first I was hesitant to order from Obeeliks which is located in Belgium but all my questions were promptly answered.  I paid with my credit card and it was delivered to my door in Illinois in about four days.  Before deciding, do yourself a favor and check out the Obeelik's website and the Evolution.  Fantastic service and airbrush.

Chuck B.

 

All right let's see.  I have the HP-CH, BH, BC2, eclipse HP-BCS, SBS from the categories you want to choose from. 
The larger cup from the C type ones does benefit from holding a lot of paints as the B types are just sooo small in size.  It really comes down to how much area of detail painting would you be covering while painting a car, which isn't much, so the 1/16oz from the BS actually can be considered.  (a full cup covers about an entire 1/18 car seat with Tamiya acrylic in the BH.)  Plus with the smaller cup cleaning will be made slightly easier during quick color changes. 
The hi-line ones with the micro adjustment valve will be an overkill to use for enamels, but the plus series' preset handle can help a lot for details.  The one problem is that the HP-B+/BH has the smaller nozzle needle setup which might be too small for enamels.  (I have not yet shoot modelmaster through my BH so I don't know... The CH shot them just fine though.)  
The larger cup from the CS really doesn't obstruct the view by that much unless you prefer to look straight from the very back of your airbrush while painting.  I look with a 15 degreeish angle when shooting preshading lines with the CH, and it was just fine. 
If you do think the cup will be in the way, the SBS is a nice option as it does perform just as nice as the other types.  The problems I have encountered with the SBS so far is that the design of the sidecup itself makes it almost half of a siphon feeding type and the sidecup is relatively harder to clean compared to the C and the B cups.  Extra sidecups from Iwata are pretty expensive to get if you want to get them for quick color changes.  (I took a bunch of those sidefeed bottles iwata had and rescrewed the metal bits onto some small modelmaster paint jars after drilling holes on the caps, so now I got a bunch of sidefeed/siphon bottles to switch around some colors and thinner.  Meanwhile I am also trying to fit aztek sidefeed cup into the SBS but have yet to get a cup.  It'd be a true gravity feed AB after that.)
The above is really just some Pros and Cons from my usage.  Personally, I'd say a you will be just fine with a CS or C+ with the optional crowncap and preset handle (CS).

Edited:
Oops, didn't read one of your updates.  Yea I agree with your friend on the CS part. 

And Tom, now you know at least one person who uses the SBS.  hehe.  If I am not mistaken, I think Jeff Herne has a sidefeed custom micron.

H3nav wrote:

Speaking of Iwata Eclipses, I know the above mentioned brushes have Teflon needle bearings but does the BCS have one as well for spraying enamels or other solvent based paints?  E

Yes E, you can spray solvent based media through the BCS as well.

cbreeze wrote:

Don't want to confuse the issue but I had to add my $.02.  I have several Iwata's and a Peak C-5.  All nice airbrushes but pale in comparison to the Harder & Steenbeck Evolution 2 in 1.  ... At first I was hesitant to order from Obeeliks which is located in Belgium but all my questions were promptly answered. ... it was delivered to my door in Illinois in about four days. Chuck B.

Thanks for the info Chuck. I did like that black anniversary one they had awhile back, looked sharp LOL. I have heard mention that the Evolution blows away Iwata's. But I am/was a bit hesitant ordering from oversea's and not having them available locally. I will get in touch with Obeeliks. I wonder how easy it is to get support and/or replacement parts for it? I'm glad that you were able to give me a comparison between the Evolution and the Iwata's. The Evolution does seem to have some nice features too. Thanks again.

archangel571 wrote:

All right let's see.  I have the HP-CH, BH, BC2, eclipse HP-BCS, SBS from the categories you want to choose from.  It really comes down to how much area of detail painting would you be covering while painting a car, which isn't much, so the 1/16oz from the BS actually can be considered.  (a full cup covers about an entire 1/18 car seat with Tamiya acrylic in the BH.)  The hi-line ones with the micro adjustment valve will be an overkill to use for enamels, but the plus series' preset handle can help a lot for details.  Personally, I'd say a you will be just fine with a CS or C+ with the optional crowncap and preset handle (CS). Edited: Oops, didn't read one of your updates.  Yea I agree with your friend on the CS part.

Thanks for the helpful info Ryan.
Actually I'll be spraying 1:1 cars and using different types of mediums.

Thanks again guys...

Jim,

I too had reservations about ordering overseas but all the good reviews I read about the Evolution and Obeeliks moved me to take a chance.  I immediately was impressed by how quick I got responses to my questions.  Jan, the owner, (I think that is his name) answered all my e-mails promptly and was a big help.  I actually placed a second order for some other items that were also delivered in a couple of days. Ordering with my credit card was real simple.  The airbrush and buying experience were impressive to say the least.

Happy spraying,

Chuck

Thanks for the reassuring words Chuck. 

I wonder if they have or can get the Limited Edition black one? 

Jhande,

I've had the opportunity to try out the airbrushes that you mentioned.  For what you tenatively will be spraying and the various mediums, I would strongly suggest the Iwata Eclipse HP-SBS.  The reason is simply, versitility.  The SBS has all the spraying qualities as the CS, BS, BCS, and CR but gives you the option of detatchable side color cups of various sizes.  No color cups in your field of veiw with this baby!  To add to the versitlity, on web sites such as Coast Airbrush, you can order a side-cup adapter to use various sizes of Aztek solvent proof color cups and bottles for those anticipated "large jobs", where a large volume of paint is required.  Also clean up is just as easy as the above units.  Where the SBS gives you more performace is in it's ability to spray those soft, atomized, finelines that you're looking to do, with thicker paints and consistant feed.  It can also handle any other type of medium, from auto paints to fine artists acrylics and laquers with ease.  You're talking versatility my friend and if I were you, the SBS would be the answer.  Good luck with you decision!     

Thanks Greg...

I've just had the opportunity to test the airbrushes myself too. 

Not that it really cleared matters up, but it gave me things to consider. What you mentioned regarding the SBS is one such thing.

I got to test some more airbrushes... 

WOW it's amazing to watch what an experienced user can do with them.
But it's also depressing to see what a mess a newb makes with them LOL.

I'll try to give the shortest run down I possibly can. We sprayed auto enamels and water based auto products.

The final spray results from my experienced buddy -
No difference between the Eclipse, High Performance, High-Line, and Custom Micro series.
No difference between the B, C, SB, and just a slight difference with the BC.
There was a difference in preperation between the AB's to obtain the similar results. Slightly different mix ratio, different air pressure, spray distance and AB moving speed while spraying.
His preference - BC for general background color, C for shading and highlighting. He prefers the B or SB for doing super fine details such as hair or wiskers (lighter weight, easier control).

When I sprayed -
I liked the amount of paint the C held and that the cup had a cover.
The B was easier to control, but needed frequent refilling.
The SB, I just couldn't find the proper angle for the cup, I was constantly twisting it.
I made the same mess no matter what AB I sprayed with.

Results / Recommendations -
My friend recommends that I either get the Eclipse BS or SBS to compliment my BCS.
I'm thinking more of the CS or the SBS (auto version).
BUT...
He knows someone that owns a Harder & Steenbeck Evolution 2-n-1 and is planning on borrowing it for a few days. He'll let me know when he does so I might be able to give that a blast too. 

The saga continues...

Go with a Badger. Problem solved

bilbirk wrote:

Go with a Badger. Problem solved

lol, cuz all u got is the 100LG, G, or SG?? been there and sold them and probably should have stayed with the low budget stuff instead of shelling out one grand for Iwatas though, if I hadn't thought about needing the ABs to do some more illustration work for my other sketches.  One thing I have actually noticed is that my Iwatas are general heavier in weight than the badgers, even the custom micron CM-C.  It's a personal preference but with my unsteady hand, the heavier ab (though still well-balanced itself) actually helped me getting straighter lines.

Does that remind anyone of one pic MikeV had before, only the opposite in contents? 

I wonder if Mike V can invoke a report abuse if there is more Iwatas than Badgers in a picture ? ( sorry, Mike, chap...)
As for the H&S Evolution, it can handle other cups much larger than the average Iwata/Badger gravity airbrush ( I'm not speaking of sprayguns )
Check the Obeeliks site to see them (  http://www.obeeliks.com  )
On the other hand, those larger cups could change the balance of the airbrush ( not tried yet )

archangel571 wrote:

bilbirk wrote: Go with a Badger. Problem solved lol, cuz all u got is the 100LG, G, or SG?? been there and sold them and probably should have stayed with the low budget stuff instead of shelling out one grand for Iwatas though, if I hadn't thought about needing the ABs to do some more illustration work for my other sketches.  One thing I have actually noticed is that my Iwatas are general heavier in weight than the badgers, even the custom micron CM-C.  It's a personal preference but with my unsteady hand, the heavier ab (though still well-balanced itself) actually helped me getting straighter lines. Does that remind anyone of one pic MikeV had before, only the opposite in contents?

I see you have fallen to the dark side young Skywalker.
Nice collection there my friend but I got you beat as I have 12.
One email and I can have many more too so don't push it!

Humm...  I don't see a revolution in your lineup. I have an Iwata Revolution and an HP-C. That covers most anything I can think of. The Revolution has a .5mm nozzle and the HPC has a .3mm nozzle. Thickor thin mediums and wide or fine line spray patterns. It dosen't get much better than that.   Greg

Sorry guys, forgot to update this thread... actually I lost it too LOL 

My buddy borrowed that Harder & Steenbeck Evolution 2 in 1 AB. He sprayed with it most of the day and let me have a few shots with it here and there while I was playing with a few other AB's most of the day.

He liked it, but... not enough to convert him from his current supply of Iwata's and dusty Badgers. He said if he was going to buy just one AB for doing hobbies or art work he would consider it, but not for fast production work. He's too used to having an AB setup and ready to go for a specific task on the project. The Evolution is fine if you want to take the time and swap paint cup sizes, needle sizes, and clean it out during a project. He couldn't really notice an better of a quality in the atomization or spray pattern, but said it is of a high quality tool.

To me it felt similar to using the HP-BS, but what do I know. 

He knows I'm tight for money (especially with opening the hobby shop) and interested in a HP-CS but would also take a HP-C Plus as an option. So he's going to dig through his stuff and see what he can come up with. He even has many spare parts and he's not sure, but thinks he might be able to put his hands on something to get me started and that will work just fine. He said that he'd like to see me get working with the AB as I show potential with the things that I've done while at his shop and it would be a waste of talent all because I couldn't afford an AB. So, here's keeping my fingers crossed.

So Jim, If I read this correctly, your buddy's gonna go through his spares & basically slap something together for ya? Hmmm, that's very nice of him to do so Maybe he's just tryin' to give ya something so you wont be in his way anymore Keep us posted

Hippy-Ed wrote:

So Jim, If I read this correctly, your buddy's gonna go through his spares & basically slap something together for ya? Hmmm, that's very nice of him to do so

Yes, I thought it was too. I never expected him to make such an offer. Just like what some generous hobbiest have done here with their extra AB's.

Maybe he's just tryin' to give ya something so you wont be in his way anymore

LMAO... At first that's what I thought too, until he told me I could even bring some of my projects down to his shop if I need a place to work on them.

Keep us posted

I will bro  

jhande wrote:

Hippy-Ed wrote: So Jim, If I read this correctly, your buddy's gonna go through his spares & basically slap something together for ya? Hmmm, that's very nice of him to do so Yes, I thought it was too. I never expected him to make such an offer. Just like what some generous hobbiest have done here with their extra AB's. Maybe he's just tryin' to give ya something so you wont be in his way anymore LMAO... At first that's what I thought too, until he told me I could even bring some of my projects down to his shop if I need a place to work on them. Keep us posted I will bro

Yup, Looks like you've got a real buddy there my friend

Hippy-Ed wrote:

Yup, Looks like you've got a real buddy there my friend

I think so, because nothing was mentioned about renting the space hehe.   

He did however like how I handled answering the phone and dealing with some customers for him when he was tied up. Maybe he has an ulterior motive? 

jhande wrote:

Hippy-Ed wrote: Yup, Looks like you've got a real buddy there my friend I think so, because nothing was mentioned about renting the space hehe.    He did however like how I handled answering the phone and dealing with some customers for him when he was tied up. Maybe he has an ulterior motive?

Better warch yer six bro dem ulterioer motives can really be a royal pain in the rump if ya git my drift

Hippy-Ed wrote:

Better warch yer six bro dem ulterioer motives can really be a royal pain in the rump if ya git my drift

LOL Eddie

I ain't signing no contracts or bending down for dropped parts. 

Ya know what I mean... 

hehe