General information for all builders.  Many instructions say to paint the inside of the intakes, wheel wells, landing gear, landing gear doors and inside of the speed brake well flat white.  The actual color is gloss white.  An epoxy based gloss white was used for all of these areas.  Inside of the speed brakes would be gloss insignia red.  Brake housings were also gloss white but would get very dirty very fast due to brake dust and bearing grease from the wheels.  Wheels would start out gloss white but the main wheels would also get very dirty fast because of brake dust and bearing grease.  The inside of the main gear doors would be covered with dirt because of the brake dust sticking to the grease.  Nose wheels would be gloss white and didn't get as dirty as the main wheels.  Brake stacks, the part that is on the inboard side of the wheel would start out as gun metal and after a few flight would start to turn a rusty color due to heat wearing off the finish.  Tires when new would be semi gloss black and would turn a brown/gray/flat black after use. 

Inside of the exhaust is not flat black or gun metal as many instructions tell you to paint them.  When new the AB liners would be green.  When the engine had zero hours up to around 200 hours it would be a dark green.  From 200 to 400 hours it would be a little lighter green.  From 400 to 800 hours the green would turn to almost an ash gray.  From there on black streaks would start to appear inside the exhaust.  At around 1,000 to 1,200 hours the liners would have a rusty oily black stain all over them.  The AB flame holder would start out as gun metal but would turn a rusty color after a very short time due to extreme heat.  The exhaust diverter cone would also be rusty.  The turbine wheels would be a dark titanium with a slight wash of oily black.  Primary exhaust nozzles would be titanium with a oily black wash.  Secondary exhaust nozzles inside the AB section would be oily black. The outside color is titanium with a wash of black and where the nozzles would slide a slight dull silver dry brushed over the titanium.   I'll try to post some pictures later showing the colors.   

Thanks Berny13,

Seems Hasegawa got most of the paint right in my kit instructions but not all of it.

Are the airbrake bays/compartments (not sure the correct term here- sorry) white? I assume only the airbrakes themselvies are red?

And oddly enough some of the photos of my airshow bird show her with inert sidewinders on pylons. I figured she's be clean but some photos show them. The pictures aren't totally clear though but it looks like the missile body is inert blue but the fins are white. I checked some sites but there seems to be some variation on this. Also European air forces seem to vary a little from the USAF and USN as well, no idea on the JASDF. I can't see the ARAAMs (sp?) to tell if they're mounted as well.  

berny13

What time period will the jet be?  The large beef up plates was added around the 1980 time period.  The two smaller ones look like repair patches and I can't recall ever seeing them on the jets.  I would also remove them.   

Excellent!  My jet will be from around the mid-70s, so I'll shave those bad boys off.

Also, great beta on the burner cans & general paiting.  I'm definately going to refer to your post when it comes time to screw up my builds with paint!

Thanks!

-O

Gamera

Thanks Berny13,

Seems Hasegawa got most of the paint right in my kit instructions but not all of it.

Are the airbrake bays/compartments (not sure the correct term here- sorry) white? I assume only the airbrakes themselvies are red?

And oddly enough some of the photos of my airshow bird show her with inert sidewinders on pylons. I figured she's be clean but some photos show them. The pictures aren't totally clear though but it looks like the missile body is inert blue but the fins are white. I checked some sites but there seems to be some variation on this. Also European air forces seem to vary a little from the USAF and USN as well, no idea on the JASDF. I can't see the ARAAMs (sp?) to tell if they're mounted as well.  

Inside of the speed brake wells are gloss white.  The speed brakes were red.  CATM-9's ( inert Sidewinders)  could be painted blue with or without the rear wings installed.  Some would be painted white with blue stripes just behind the forward wings.  The aft wings were most often painted white.  The forward wings would be white or gun metal depending on which model is carried.   The AMRAAM on the F-4 was carried on the aft missile stations only.  They would not fit on the forward stations or on the pylons.

oortiz10

berny13:

What time period will the jet be?  The large beef up plates was added around the 1980 time period.  The two smaller ones look like repair patches and I can't recall ever seeing them on the jets.  I would also remove them.   

 

Excellent!  My jet will be from around the mid-70s, so I'll shave those bad boys off.

Also, great beta on the burner cans & general paiting.  I'm definately going to refer to your post when it comes time to screw up my builds with paint!

Thanks!

-O

 

Glad I was able to help. 

berny13

Dupes, are the Seamless Suckers intakes for the Revell F-4 or the Tamiya F-4?  If they are for the Revell kit I can give you a little advice and shortcuts on getting them to fit correctly.

Try and locate a set of AM wheels as the kit supplied ones are all wrong. 

Berny - I double checked my Suckers, and they are indeed the correct ones for the Revell kit. I would love to hear any advice and/or shortcuts to using them, as I've never attempted them before!

Looks like Squadron has some resin replacements in stock (True Details).

Here are a few shots of the exhaust area.  Sorry for the poor quality as my old camera is near its end.

Here are a couple of shots of the Revell RF-4C that I did over twenty years ago.  That is the tail number of the aircraft I was Crew Chief on in Vietnam.

Thanks Berny, beautiful model and thanks for the advice!

Beautiful job Berny!!!

Thanks everyone for the comments on the RF.  When the aircraft was assigned to Shaw AFB, SC, it was painted in gull gray over white.  They did a quick SEA paint job on it before they transfered it to us to bring us up to full strength.  The jet arrived in early '66.  I became crew chief on it after arriving in Nam in June '67.  An AGE driver hit the pitot boom and broke it shortly after I became the crew chief.  At that time most parts for the RF were for the gray over white so supply sent us a white radome.  In December '67 the jet was damaged when an AAA shell exploded just behind the aircraft.  The vertical fin cap was blown off, the rudder was damaged and the vertical fin and stab had numerous holes in them.  The replacement fin cap is gull gray and the replacement rudder is gloss white.  Scab patches were put on the vertical and horizontal stab and left unpainted.  If you look close you can see where the paint has peeled from the leading edge of the vertical stab, wing leading edges and intakes.  Under the peeled paint you can see the original color which is gull gray.   

Great job Berny.  Thanks for posting the shots of the tail and burner cans too! 

A silly question for anyone; for builds where the aircraft is being made to look in flight, where are builders coming up with the clear plastic or plexi-glass type stands? I keep seeing them all over the place, but no one ever mentions where they get them or the raw materials to make them? 

Hints, ideas or suggestions please? 

Thanks, Jar.

hey

can anyone tell me what the pod is behind the pilot decending the steps?

cheers, chris

Hi Chris,

It's an ALQ-119 ECM pod -- a jamming system.

Cheers, Mike/TB379

Well, we are supposed to actually have sunshine for Sunday the 17th and almost no wind, so I can at least get the primer stage started and double check my puttying.

Thunderbolt379:- would the ALQ-119 be used in conjunction with other weapons?

cheers, chris

MFJ -- I did a quick online search for the use of the ALQ-119. The pod has been around about 40 years now, constantly upgraded and reprogrammed, and has ben carried on F-4, F-15, F-16 and A-10 aircraft. It's currently used by Germany, Turney and Japan, all F-4 users as well. The pod is a radar warning and jamming system to provide a defensive countermeasure to fool antiaircraft radar systems. It would seem most important for aircraft in the ground attack role, which would be exposed to ground fire most directly, so I would expect to see a jamming pod on -E aircraft loaded for attack, and most likely on -G aircraft in their natural environment, going in against gun and missile guidence units.

Berny, am I close?

Cheers, Mike/starhawk379

Thunderbolt379:- that ALQ pod is on a lakenheath based D, and seeing asa they were used in the "strike" roll it would make sense for them to carry the pod, if you remember i was gonna load my D with a nuke but as i dont seem to be able to find one i will be arming differently, which is why i was asking what weapons would be used in conjunction with the pod

i also likethe look of it carried on the aim-7 position,

cheers, chris

Thunderbolt379

MFJ -- I did a quick online search for the use of the ALQ-119. The pod has been around about 40 years now, constantly upgraded and reprogrammed, and has ben carried on F-4, F-15, F-16 and A-10 aircraft. It's currently used by Germany, Turney and Japan, all F-4 users as well. The pod is a radar warning and jamming system to provide a defensive countermeasure to fool antiaircraft radar systems. It would seem most important for aircraft in the ground attack role, which would be exposed to ground fire most directly, so I would expect to see a jamming pod on -E aircraft loaded for attack, and most likely on -G aircraft in their natural environment, going in against gun and missile guidence units.

Berny, am I close?

Cheers, Mike/starhawk379

Very close.  The ECM pod would be carried in a forward missile station for the ground attack mission.  On the E and G  model it would be carried on the left forward station.  On the D model it would be carried on the right forward station with the left station used to carry a Pave Spike pod, if it was a "Smart D".

When I was stationed in SEA we carried the AN/ALQ-87 ECM Pod on our F-4D.  Normal load out would be on the left forward station with a strike camera on the right forward station.  AIM-7 missiles would be loaded on the two aft stations for ground attack missions. On air to air missions all fuselage stations would have AIM-7's loaded and the ECM pod would be carried on an inboard pylon.  AIM-9's would be loaded on launchers on the inboard pylons.

When we deployed to SEA for Linebacker from Eglin AFB, our F-4E's only flew in the air to air role.  For short range CAP we would fly with a full missile load out with a AN/ALQ-87 pod on one pylon and a AN/ALQ-101 on the other pylon.  The centerline would be empty.  For long range missions, three gas bags, full missile load and one ECM pod, usually the AN/ALQ-101 pod on an inboard pylon.  If they were going into RP-6 than two ECM pods would be loaded. The centerline tank would stay on unless they engaged any enemy fighter.  The reason is the AN/ALQ-87 is a noise generating pod and the AN/ALQ-101 is a deception pod.  With a strong ground based radar, it could burn through the noise picking out the aircraft.  With a deception pod, the radar couldn't pin point the aircraft.  This was done in areas where ground based radar controled AAA and SAM was active.

For BUFF escort missions our aircraft would have a full missile load out, three gas bags and one ECM pod.  If one jet carried the 87 pod, the wingman would have the 101 pod.  Reason being the fully loaded F-4 couldn't keep up with the B-52 at medium to high altitude.  As soon as the centerline tank was empty, it would be dropped to cut down on drag and weight.  The 370 gallon tanks would stay on when empty unless they engaged enemy aircraft.

Navy/Marine F-4's did not carry ECM pods.  They relied on jammer aircraft such as the EA-6B.  The F-4J/N/S eventually received an ECM up grade and carried the system on the side of the intakes.  Today their aircraft carry the same type of ECM pod as carried by the EA-6B and F/A-18G.  The only USAF aircraft to carry that type of pod was the EF-111

The AN/ALQ-119 pod is a fully programmable ECM pod capable of noise and deception.  That way one pod can take the place of two pods.   

The AN/ALQ-119 ECM pod has been replaced with new generation pods in the USAF.  Many of the 119 pods are sent to other countries where they fly them on many different types of aircraft.  Current users are Germany, Turkey, England, Canada, Australia, Korea, as well as most NATO countries. 

regarding the ALQ-119, luckily i have a A-10 i can borrow one from, just need to work out the hard point fixing

the revell kit is posing a few fit issues, one being a lip between the rear of the wings and the exhaust, as you will se in the image, now, would the best way to tackle this be 1:- putty or 2:-styrene strip 3:-??

advise welcome

cheers, chris

If you are going to hang the ALQ-119 pod on a forward missile well, you will have to have a missile well adapter to hang the pod on.  I know the old Monogram F-4C/D kit had them but I am not sure if the new kits have them.  I may have one or two in my spare parts for the 1/48 scale F-4.  Let me know if you need one.

really stupid question but waht exactly does the hanger look like?

cheers, chris

morefirejules08

regarding the ALQ-119, luckily i have a A-10 i can borrow one from, just need to work out the hard point fixing

 

the revell kit is posing a few fit issues, one being a lip between the rear of the wings and the exhaust, as you will se in the image, now, would the best way to tackle this be 1:- putty or 2:-styrene strip 3:-??

advise welcome

cheers, chris

It can be done without either putty or strip. All you gotta do is "selective" tweaking of the shape where the 2 joints meet - a.k.a. looks like you could soak that section of the fuselage in hot water to warm the plastic, and literally bend it around some to get it to line up. I hope my explanation helps, here's what I wound up with:

im guessing thats pre-glue?? mine is now post glue!lol

Yeah, that was pre-glue.

Post glue, I would use putty.

Ok guys I'm getting ready to start my build but I have a few questions I need answers for before I start. Aside from still needing to find the decals for this bird I need paint info.

What color do you guys use on the engine exhausts, the plating aft and the tail fins?

What color is the typical cockpit?

What color are the Landing gear and gear bays?

What other areas should I be aware of?

To Dirkpitt289, I'll try to help a little: I will take them in order you posted:

Q.  What color do you guys use on the engine exhausts, the plating aft and the tail fins?

A.  I plan on using a combo of aluminum, steel, gunmetal, and a black wash. The Collings Foundation has an absolutely beautiful D. Here's a link to the photo page:

http://www.collingsfoundation.org/Houston/tx_f-4dphantom_pics.htm

Questions 2, 3, 4. Going back through all the pages of this thread, you will find several good examples of work already done, references to external links and such. Cockpits are mostly grey with black panels and instrument bezels, seats are multi-color, again look at oortiz10's and gamera's work, I think they are better than mine. The interior of the landing gear bays, and the gear themselves are gloss white, again a picture is worth a thousand words, so a google image search can be your best  friend.

Dirkpitt289

Ok guys I'm getting ready to start my build but I have a few questions I need answers for before I start. Aside from still needing to find the decals for this bird I need paint info.

What color do you guys use on the engine exhausts, the plating aft and the tail fins?

What color is the typical cockpit?

What color are the Landing gear and gear bays?

What other areas should I be aware of?

For the areas behind the exhaust.  The top part called the "Shingle Panels" was made of Titanium-Stainless Steel so they will have a dull silver color.  After several flights they would turn a slight darker color.  They were always cracking and were replaced as often as you changed socks, so each panel would have a slight different color.  Use Stainless Steel to start with and darken other panels if you want.

The "Blast Panels" directly behind the exhaust were Titanium and were very dark in color.  They were subject to a lot of heat and would have a blue tint to the leading edge and low areas of the panel.  Use Titanium for the basic color.  They would also get very dirty from the smokey exhaust so dry brush with flat black, but don't paint the entire area black.

The stab inboard part (Un painted areas) had a torque box running through the center section.  It was made of milled titanium-steel.  Use Titanium and steel mixture to paint that area.  The area forward of the torque box was made of Titanium-Nickel and had a lighter color than the torque box.  Use stainless steel for that area and dry brush dark gray over that area.  The aft part of the unpainted area was made of Titanium-Aluminum Honnycomb.  Paint it aluminum and lightly dry brush with flat black.  The leading edge of the stab inboard section was Titanium-Nickle-Steel and had a dull silver look to it.  Non buffing aluminum would be a good color for it.  The outboard section was aluminum so use buffing aluminum to paint that area. 

The rest of your questions were answered so if you have any more, just post.  I am sure there are many members that can help out.

[quote user="morefirejules08"]

Thunderbolt379:- that ALQ pod is on a lakenheath based D, and seeing asa they were used in the "strike" roll it would make sense for them to carry the pod, if you remember i was gonna load my D with a nuke but as i dont seem to be able to find one i will be arming differently, which is why i was asking what weapons would be used in conjunction with the pod

Chris, The Hase weapons set B Has two nukes as well as all the pods being discussed here and the adaptor for the sparrow bay.

                                                           Cheers, Mac