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The Official F-4 Phantom II Group Build 2010

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  • Member since
    February 2010
Posted by rrat104 on Wednesday, February 10, 2010 5:51 PM

Mike,

Found this site by accident,The Phantom drew me to it.Not quite sure how to use it yet.I've replyed to one post ,I think Iconfused every one.  Been building F-4 kits since before I worked on them {F-4J's} I'm not an expert but I know a little about them. Just finised a marine S bird at its end of days. Is to late to share it with the group?

  • Member since
    February 2003
  • From: Melbourne, Australia
Posted by darson on Wednesday, February 10, 2010 9:21 PM

Hi all, if it's ok with you I'd like to throw my hat into the ring with a 1/48th Hasegawa F-4G using a bucket load of AM.

The list includes Aires pit and burner cans, Wolfpack AN/ALQ-184, Hase weapons set, Aeromaster decals,  Two Bobs AIM 7 &  AGM-88 HARM decals, Quickboost air scoops and a bunch of other stuff that I can't remember off the top of my head.

I've been assembling the bits for this build for over a year but I'm not much of a Phantom expert so I hope you guys don't mind a lot of questions.

Cheers

  • Member since
    October 2009
  • From: Texas
Posted by Gregbbear on Wednesday, February 10, 2010 9:49 PM

Dear Mike, and the Phantom Group, I have been watching, and enjoying this GB since its inception.  I'd like to get off the fence and join.  I have several Phantoms in the stash.  I haven't built an F-4 since I was a kid (I'm 40 now) so it is high time I do!

I actually saw one of the old girls on approach to Lackland AFB a couple of weeks ago.  I was quite surprised since I know the US doesn't use them anymore.  It was unmistakeably a phantom.  I hadn't seen one in the air since I was in Korea in '97.  If my girlfriend wouldn't of been in the car, I would have driven over by the base to investigate!

I thank you in advance for letting me join your Group Build.

Sincerely,

Greg

 

- yat yas!

 

   

  • Member since
    January 2010
  • From: Birmingham AL
Posted by caribwill on Wednesday, February 10, 2010 10:29 PM

Well I am making some progress with my 1/72 Hasegawa RF-4b.  I am building it stock and the cockpit so far is below.  I still have some detailing to do and need to add the ejection handles.  Tips and feedback are welcome as this is my 1st F-4.

 

http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn48/MikeTheModeller/GB_Badges/Badge-3-Phantom2010.jpg

 

  • Member since
    October 2009
  • From: Texas
Posted by Gregbbear on Wednesday, February 10, 2010 10:47 PM

Caribwill, that looks real sharp.  I have the USMC "Spirit of '76" version of that kit.  So far, what do you think of the kit? 

Cheers,

 

Greg

- yat yas!

 

   

  • Member since
    April 2005
Posted by Thunderbolt379 on Thursday, February 11, 2010 6:01 AM

Evenin' gents, sorry i've not ducked my head into the squadron lounge for the last day or two, I've been busy with more stuff than you could take out with a retarded cluster munition...

Jmart, Darson and Gregbbear -- welcome aboard all, I'll update the leaderboard right away! Rrat104 -- by all means share your work here, I'm sure we'd love to see it! The more Phantoms the merrier, I always say. (And not just because as of today my stash is closer to 60 F-4s than 50...)

Caribwill -- sweet work on the pit! Decals or film instruments?

Cheers, Mike/starhawk379

http://worldinminiature.blogspot.com/

  • Member since
    February 2003
  • From: Panama City, Florida, Hurricane Alley
Posted by berny13 on Thursday, February 11, 2010 9:14 AM

General information for those that are painting the seats used in the F-4.  It also shows how the seat straps are positioned.

Berny

 Phormer Phantom Phixer

On the bench

TF-102A Delta Dagger, 32nd FIS, 54-1370, 1/48 scale. Monogram Pro Modeler with C&H conversion.  

Revell F-4E Phantom II 33rd TFW, 58th TFS, 69-260, 1/32 scale. 

Tamiya F-4D Phantom II, 13th TFS, 66-8711, 1/32 scale.  F-4 Phantom Group Build. 

 

  • Member since
    February 2003
  • From: Melbourne, Australia
Posted by darson on Thursday, February 11, 2010 8:55 PM

That's a great reference shot Bernie, thanks for posting.

Cheers

  • Member since
    October 2009
  • From: Texas
Posted by Gregbbear on Thursday, February 11, 2010 8:55 PM

That pic will be a big help.  Thanks Berny.  Is that your own personal one?

Does anybody know off hand if anybody makes decals for all that stenciling?

 

Cheers,

Greg

- yat yas!

 

   

  • Member since
    February 2003
  • From: Panama City, Florida, Hurricane Alley
Posted by berny13 on Friday, February 12, 2010 7:29 AM

Gregbbear

Does anybody know off hand if anybody makes decals for all that stenciling?

 

Cheers,

Greg

Big Ed makes a photo etch set in 1/48 and 1/32 but they are very expensive.

I also found these.

http://www.squadron.com/ItemDetails.asp?item=EU32511

http://www.squadron.com/ItemDetails.asp?item=EU49014

 

Berny

 Phormer Phantom Phixer

On the bench

TF-102A Delta Dagger, 32nd FIS, 54-1370, 1/48 scale. Monogram Pro Modeler with C&H conversion.  

Revell F-4E Phantom II 33rd TFW, 58th TFS, 69-260, 1/32 scale. 

Tamiya F-4D Phantom II, 13th TFS, 66-8711, 1/32 scale.  F-4 Phantom Group Build. 

 

  • Member since
    February 2003
  • From: Between LA and OC, SoCal
Posted by oortiz10 on Friday, February 12, 2010 3:04 PM

Got a question for ya berny,

I need some help with Phantom pylons. I know the difference between the USN & USAF inboard pylons (curved vs straight), but my question's about the outboard pylons.

I've been trying to track down True Details' resin pylon set, but I can't find the USAF set, only the USN set. What I need is the outboard pylons to use on a -C Phantom. Are the outboard pylons the same on both USAF & USN jets? Is there a difference between the outboard pylons that carried ordnance and those that carried fuel tanks? Could I just remove the molded-on wing tanks from a Navy jet and use the pylons to hang ordnance on a USAF?

Thanks in advance berny.

To everyone else, sorry I haven't been posting lately.  School has started and I've been tied up with my studies.  Next week is a mandatory furlough week for the university (thanks a lot, Governator!) so I plan on making some progress on my builds.  My question about the -C isn't for this GB, rather a future (waaay down the road) project.

Chat with ya later!
-O

 

-It's Omar, but they call me "O".

  • Member since
    February 2003
  • From: Panama City, Florida, Hurricane Alley
Posted by berny13 on Friday, February 12, 2010 4:04 PM

The Navy and USAF outboard pylons were different.  Also, the shape of the tank pylon and the outboard pylon were also different.   What scale are you working in?  If you are looking for 1/48 look here.

http://www.squadron.com/ItemDetails.asp?item=IDR48005

Berny

 Phormer Phantom Phixer

On the bench

TF-102A Delta Dagger, 32nd FIS, 54-1370, 1/48 scale. Monogram Pro Modeler with C&H conversion.  

Revell F-4E Phantom II 33rd TFW, 58th TFS, 69-260, 1/32 scale. 

Tamiya F-4D Phantom II, 13th TFS, 66-8711, 1/32 scale.  F-4 Phantom Group Build. 

 

  • Member since
    February 2003
  • From: Between LA and OC, SoCal
Posted by oortiz10 on Friday, February 12, 2010 4:39 PM

Hey Berny,

 

I'm looking to work in 1/48 so those would work.  Only problem is their price.  The True Details set is 1/3 the price...when they're available.  Maybe I'll break down and pay the difference.  You know, the whole bird in the hand thing.

 

Thanks Berny!

-O

 

 

-It's Omar, but they call me "O".

  • Member since
    March 2009
  • From: Middletown, OH
Posted by Buffirn on Friday, February 12, 2010 6:05 PM

Never let it be said that I don't enjoy a challenge now and then.  This 80's AMT F-4C is just that.  I forgot how sparse some of the models of that era were.  Oh well, it will be a good time in any case and I think I can make it look pretty good.  If they all were easy to build, everyone would be in this hobby.

 

Jim

Jim Williams

 

  • Member since
    February 2003
  • From: Between LA and OC, SoCal
Posted by oortiz10 on Friday, February 12, 2010 8:22 PM

Well, whaddaya know, there are empty outboard pylons in the Hase boxing.  I didn't even notice 'em.  A member on ARC gave me heads up.  I see the panel line you're talking about.  Apparently, it's as easy as flattening theNavy pylon up to a certain panel line.   I'm golden! 

Thanks for the input everyone.  All I gotta do is throw these pylons in the spares box so I'll have 'em for the -C build.

Thanks again!
-O

-It's Omar, but they call me "O".

  • Member since
    January 2010
  • From: Birmingham AL
Posted by caribwill on Saturday, February 13, 2010 8:37 AM

Well I have made some more progress on the RF-4b.  The photos are shown below.  

 Do you ussually prime your planesbefore airbrushing?  In the past I sometimes have issues with the masking peeling the paint.    Any advice on how to mask the leading edges of the wings as I would like to paint the bottom white with the rest grey.  I thought about just hitting it from an angle with the aitbrush, but wanted to see if you guys had any better ideas. 

The instruments in the plane were the stock declas and I like the kit so far.  It is clear that Hasegawa uses this base kit for several of their planes as I have a lot of small details that can be changed for other models.

 

http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn48/MikeTheModeller/GB_Badges/Badge-3-Phantom2010.jpg

 

  • Member since
    June 2008
Posted by lewbud on Saturday, February 13, 2010 1:04 PM

caribwill,

I always prime before I paint, helps the paint adhere to the plastic better.  With regards to the paint peeling, might be several factors.  Try giving the model a wipe down with some rubbing alcohol to remove any residual oils from handling.  Also the type of paint or tape maybe the culprit as well.  I've had acrylics pull up, but not enamels after they've had a couple of days to dry.  I've only had one instance of where the Tamiya spray cans lifted, but that was on a resin kit.  Don't know what kind of tape you're using, but you really can't go wrong with Tamiya tape, or their primer.  Nice job on the B.

Buddy- Those who say there are no stupid questions have never worked in customer service.

  • Member since
    March 2009
  • From: Middletown, OH
Posted by Buffirn on Saturday, February 13, 2010 7:20 PM

Doggone if I didn't buy another F-4C today.  I picked up the Revell kit which looks like the old Monogram kit.  Still a nice kit.  More work for me.

 

Jim

Jim Williams

 

  • Member since
    February 2010
  • From: New Jersey
Posted by 68GT on Saturday, February 13, 2010 10:10 PM

 I have a 1/72 scale Testors F-4G that's been sitting in the closet for quite some time and could be the thing to get me building again.  It's kit No.684 that can be built as a F4-E, F or G.

 

Gotta love them Phantoms!

On Ed's bench, ???

  

  • Member since
    April 2005
Posted by Thunderbolt379 on Sunday, February 14, 2010 6:06 PM

Hi 68GT -- welcome aboard, I've added your project to the squadron roster, I look forward to seeing your bird go together!

Cheers, Mike/TB379

http://worldinminiature.blogspot.com/

  • Member since
    January 2010
  • From: Birmingham AL
Posted by caribwill on Sunday, February 14, 2010 7:03 PM

I had a chance to put a little paint on the bird this evening.  I have Grey Tamiya primer and Model master white.  If anyone has any tips on airbrushing white , I am all ears.  My airbrush always seems to act up with the color white.  All the other colors come out great. 

http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn48/MikeTheModeller/GB_Badges/Badge-3-Phantom2010.jpg

 

  • Member since
    February 2003
  • From: Panama City, Florida, Hurricane Alley
Posted by berny13 on Sunday, February 14, 2010 8:01 PM

Looking good so far.  Don't forget to paint the rudder and stabs white. 

Berny

 Phormer Phantom Phixer

On the bench

TF-102A Delta Dagger, 32nd FIS, 54-1370, 1/48 scale. Monogram Pro Modeler with C&H conversion.  

Revell F-4E Phantom II 33rd TFW, 58th TFS, 69-260, 1/32 scale. 

Tamiya F-4D Phantom II, 13th TFS, 66-8711, 1/32 scale.  F-4 Phantom Group Build. 

 

  • Member since
    February 2004
  • From: Perth - Australia
Posted by gkicsak on Sunday, February 14, 2010 10:24 PM

Hi All,

I joined the Group Build last week.  Just wanted to show what I'm doing and what it is up to.

Boxart:

This is an old kit I bought from a workmate in the 90's.

 

Progress of the cockpit:

 

Going slow at the moment as there is a few projects going on at the moment.

 

Caribwill:

I'm guessing you will use acrylic paint? One trick I have accidently discovered over the past few weeks was when I mix my paint (usually 50/50), I also add about 8 or so drops of Future to this as well.  Makes the airbrush flow a lot better as well.  Lots of thin coats and slowly build it up like everyone always says.

Like I said, found this by accident as my airbrush was spitting paint and I knew the airbrush was in excellent order and working well.

Try this and see if this works for you as well.

 

Cheers,

GabeWink

When the band stops playing, the entertainment will begin.
  • Member since
    May 2009
  • From: uk
Posted by morefirejules08 on Monday, February 15, 2010 3:46 PM

ok, well i haven't updated for a while so i thought i'd post some pics of my progress, most are still WIPS but there you go

ok, first up we have exhaust nozzles, i sprayed these with revell acrylic steel then used a black watercolour wash to darken it down allot!! just need to spray a clear coat to stop the watercolour rubbing off, would a satin clear coat be correct?

white metal landing gear that i mentioned in a previous post are not as nice as i'd hoped but better than having huge holes, this is also my first ever atempt at picking out detail and weathering, over done?? wheels were done in steel/watercolour wash to simulate brake dust

after i found so reference pictures relating to LN birds i noticed that they we're often parked up with both sets of flaps down so i decided to cut the inner flaps and have them lowered as well as the outers. like so

so i started by scribbing along the lines going over them several times to get the scores nice and deep, i then swapped over to a craft knife to finish the job this is the result

nice clean cut tha needs the minimal of cleaning up!!

next up is the work on the flaps themselves, it was difficult to find a close up of a phantoms flaps down but this is what i found

to me it looks like the flap extends down and out?? well i have tryed recreating this, i started by cutting a some sprue lenght ways and glueing the flat side to the back of the flap, i then shaped the sprue on the bottom to give me the angle i wanted and the top to try and mimic what you see above. and this is the result so far

what do you think??

and last but not least is my ALQ-119 stolen from my hobbyboss A-10, this is also a WIP but im quite happy with my weathering on this one!

 

one question i do have is, the image i found of the lowered flap is from a german F-4f, and there is the part painted red on the fuse which has the same profile as the flap? would the F-4D have this as its hard to make out on the LN birds i have found

  • Member since
    May 2009
  • From: uk
Posted by morefirejules08 on Monday, February 15, 2010 3:53 PM

caribwill :- are you using matt or gloss white? i have both revell gloss and matt whites and only the gloss will spray properly, the only thing i can think is the matt is drying to quickly and blocking the brush, even with an acrylic retardant added.

  • Member since
    April 2005
Posted by Thunderbolt379 on Monday, February 15, 2010 5:27 PM

Gkicsak and MFJ -- great work both! These are going to be some spectacular Rhinos!

I MUST get something done on mine, at least get that Marine bird into my March build list -- three kits to finish in February, if only there were more hours in a day!

Cheers, Mike/TB379

http://worldinminiature.blogspot.com/

  • Member since
    February 2003
  • From: Panama City, Florida, Hurricane Alley
Posted by berny13 on Monday, February 15, 2010 7:44 PM

That vertical red stripe you see on the German bird is the "Turbine Warning Stripe".  I was found on AF, Navy and Marine aircraft as well.  The red area along the "Filler" was used as a warning.  The inside of the flaps were also red.  Trailing edge flaps were hinged at the bottom so when the flaps were lowered the heat shield above the BLC duct became visible.  The leading edge flaps and trailing edge flaps had the BLC system. 

You do know that on the "Hard Wing" Phantoms, when the trailing edge flaps were down the leading edge flaps were also down.  You could not drop one without the other.   

Berny

 Phormer Phantom Phixer

On the bench

TF-102A Delta Dagger, 32nd FIS, 54-1370, 1/48 scale. Monogram Pro Modeler with C&H conversion.  

Revell F-4E Phantom II 33rd TFW, 58th TFS, 69-260, 1/32 scale. 

Tamiya F-4D Phantom II, 13th TFS, 66-8711, 1/32 scale.  F-4 Phantom Group Build. 

 

  • Member since
    March 2005
  • From: near Nashville, TN
Posted by TarnShip on Tuesday, February 16, 2010 5:55 AM

O , I'm going to type up the summary of my "pylon notes" here for you,,,,,,It'll include things you don't care about for your C, but, I will put the whole thing up here in case anyone else needs them also,,,,,,,also, my notes are "biased towards Navair" because of my Jarheadedness, but I did need some AF stuff for that part of my Phantom collection

If anyone notices anything that needs correction, please just say so,,,,,,and this is based on the plastic needed to build with, so, if I say "no adapter",,,,,there might still be one, just not visible when assembling a model

first the Innerwing (I/W), here are the types

B,,,,this is the naval pylon in the early days, with or without Sidewinder rails (these couldn't carry both S/W and bombs at the same time),,,,,,these are seen with or without the adapter that the TER mounts to

J,,,,,,this is the naval pylon with the "long S/W rail bolts",,,,,,they could carry S/W and Mk 82's on TERs,,,,,,also seen with or without the adapter for the TER,,,,,but on J's they are almost always seen with the adapter

C,,,,,this is the naval pylon with S/W rails that are different than the Naval rails, but they couldn't carry both Bombs and S/W at the same time

D,,,,,this is the AF pylon with the same S/W rail type as the C, couldn't carry both bombs and S/W

the Navy and Marines tended to leave the S/W rails on the I/W even if they were empty,,,,,,,,the AF took the rails off when loading bombs and/or TERs,,,,,,exceptions can be found though

the weapons sets come with the 2 different S/W rail sets (AF or USN)

the story was that the longer mounting bolts for using S/W rails and bombs together were machined on Carriers, bootlegged throughout Navair, and later on were fleet approved and issued to the squadrons, which could explain why the AF didn't have them

Outerwing,,,,,,,,,these were based on the "favorite" bombs of Navair and USAF before the Snakeyes came along

there are the AF pylons with the tanks mounted on them, 90degrees from the wing

the angled AF pylons for clearance of M-117 750# bombs

the Naval pylons configured for tanks, 90 degrees

the Naval pylons configured with the MER adapter, still at 90 degrees, because they used Mk 82's with conical fins,,,,,,,,this is easily seen in a pic of 145310 from head on, with 22 red Mk 82 for a weapons demo

the AF swapped pylons depending on if they were using tanks or weapons on them,,,,,,,,the Navy kept the pylons and swapped tanks or the MER adapter

both angled and non angled pylons were based on the AF needing clearance for the 117's, and Navair carrying Mk 82's,,,,,,,except some land based Marine units using 117s in addition to the Mk 82

the UK aircraft were "J-based",,,,,,and followed the same pattern as the Navy

the other foreign aircraft were AF based, and followed the same pattern as the AF (if there are exceptions to this,,,please let me know what country)

only other pylon can of worms are that there were a pylon for the early Centerline tank, the F-15 tank, a weapons pylon,,,,,,,and the fact that some Naval stores would mount directly to the Pylon Mount (PBER's come to mind here)

we could sure use a Phantom weapons book, because this doesn't even touch what was wired for what, or the various missile options at all (and all the associated LAUs to load the missiles onto)

hope this is of help

Rex

 

 

 

almost gone

  • Member since
    May 2009
  • From: uk
Posted by morefirejules08 on Tuesday, February 16, 2010 10:29 AM

berny13 in the ref images i have been using i did notice that the leading edge flaps were also down but i dont have the skill to work them into the down position so unfortunately my phantom will be inaccurate in that respect!

as for the "turbine warning stripe" thats not the area i was referring to, i have highlighted the area in the image below

cheers, chris

  • Member since
    February 2003
  • From: Panama City, Florida, Hurricane Alley
Posted by berny13 on Tuesday, February 16, 2010 10:44 AM

morefirejules08

berny13 in the ref images i have been using i did notice that the leading edge flaps were also down but i dont have the skill to work them into the down position so unfortunately my phantom will be inaccurate in that respect!

as for the "turbine warning stripe" thats not the area i was referring to, i have highlighted the area in the image below

http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii167/morefirejules08/closeflaps-1.jpg

cheers, chris

That is called the "Filler" and yes it is also red on most Phantoms.  It is red to show a danger area for maintenance.   Any thing painted red is a signal to maintenance that  is a danger area and to keep hands clear when hydraulic pressure is on the aircraft. 

Berny

 Phormer Phantom Phixer

On the bench

TF-102A Delta Dagger, 32nd FIS, 54-1370, 1/48 scale. Monogram Pro Modeler with C&H conversion.  

Revell F-4E Phantom II 33rd TFW, 58th TFS, 69-260, 1/32 scale. 

Tamiya F-4D Phantom II, 13th TFS, 66-8711, 1/32 scale.  F-4 Phantom Group Build. 

 

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