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1945 GB

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  • Member since
    December 2002
  • From: Bury St Edmunds, Suffolk, England
Posted by Bish on Friday, January 1, 2016 1:18 AM

Tony, nice collection there.

I am not sure what the deal is with Tamiya. Enamels can't be posted by air in Europe, but i have not heard of that applying to Tamiya, but then i don't tend to have to order it in.

Happy new year to all you guys. Thanks to all who took part and built some great kits. As always, its a real joy to be able to share modelling time with you guys. And thanks to Stik for helping out and struggling through despite the issues he is having with the site.

Once Joe has sompleted his build, i will post a round up in the general modelling section. And i look forwrad to seeing all your build in the coming year and spending more modelling time with you all. And don't forget, the 1946 GB is now open and i hope as many of you as possable will join in there.

I am a Norfolk man and i glory in being so

 

On the bench: Airfix 1/72nd Harrier GR.3/Fujimi 1/72nd Ju 87D-3

  • Member since
    April 2006
  • From: ON, Canada
Posted by jgeratic on Friday, January 1, 2016 12:49 AM

Tony, excellent work  on the 190.  Yes Don't know what type green the finish should be, but it looks great from here.

------------------------------

I think those modeling gurus are correct, and Tamiya acrylics are really lacquer based.   This would explain why they can't be shipped airmail to Canada, but other acrylics are fine.

For Life colour, I've had good results by thinning with Future Clear and tap water.

regards,
Jack

  • Member since
    February 2010
  • From: Berkeley CA/St. Paul MN
Posted by EBergerud on Friday, January 1, 2016 12:06 AM

I'll give the mix  a try. LifeColor has gained a lot of fans in the last few years - Rinaldi likes it a lot. Their colors are very accurate (only Acrylic that really hits USN Deck or Navy Blue - both are really gray) and growing in number. And I have several bottles. Anyway, fine planes. I think it's harder to do a good 1/72 than a 1/48 but yours have a very clean and very interesting look - that takes good modelling. Didn't hurt that the FW had fantastic lines - one of the best looking prop planes in history.

Eric

 

 

A model boat is much cheaper than a real one and won't sink with you in it.

  • Member since
    April 2005
  • From: Australia
Posted by taxtp on Thursday, December 31, 2015 7:54 PM

Hi Eric,

Thanks for the great information. I too use Tamiya Lacquer Thinner to thin Tamiya and Gunze acrylics, it's very reliable and I agree with their comments.

I also often brush paint Future over flat finishes to prepare for decalling. On this one I didn't because I was a little concerned about the durability of the Life Color paint. It's one that I must try though.

I settled on 30% distilled water and a couple of drops of retarder. I didn't have to clear the nozzle of the airbrush, but I did note whilst cleaning up after that it was close to needing it.

Cheers

Tony

I'm just taking it one GB at a time.

  • Member since
    February 2010
  • From: Berkeley CA/St. Paul MN
Posted by EBergerud on Thursday, December 31, 2015 6:45 PM

Tony,

The plane is very nice - didn't Finescale do a magazine sponsored GB on "orphan weaponry" (captured planes, tanks etc): sure yours would have fit nicely. National markings have the colors all wrong - probably why the French did so badly in 1940 - ugly rondels.

What did you settle on for thinning LC? I've got some but usually hand brush it. Sounds like hardware store lacquer thinner didn't do any harm. I can testify to this, however. I use plastic pallets and if I try cleaning one with hardware store thinner, it scars the plastic very badly. I have Gunze clear but I can' recall ever using it. Pledge is so reliable and if hand painted on a decal area is very gloss. For clear parts I use Alclad (acrylic) Aquagloss - the stuff's terrific.

I was just returning to modelling when the great A-20/Lacquer thinner debate started. Like any issue that is unimportant lots of heated argument. It was the armor gurus Adam Wilder and Mig Jimenez that claimed Tamiya and Gunze paints weren't acrylics but lacquers. (Tamiya paints were very hard to find for months because they all had to be labelled toxic and flammable. ISP will thin Tamiya which is acrylic-like: figure it a hybrid. But very different from LifeColor or Vallejo. I wouldn't touch a lacquer thinner for either of those.) Below is a quote from Mig Jimenez from his forward to a nice article done by Adam Wilder on "Color Modulation" for Armoama in 2008: search to see the whole thing. (Tamiya pushes A20 for beginners because it's easier to clean and dries more slowly - I don't agree - but recommend their Lacquer for advanced use because it leaves a harder finish.) Here's Mig:

"It is also important to know that I use lacquer thinner to thin the Tamiya paints I am using for this style. 96% Isopropyl alcohol has always been the means for modelers to thin Tamiya paints because of the false assumption that they are acrylics. Tamiya paints are not acrylics. They are only advertised as so to probably make them look less toxic. Tamiya offers both an alcohol type thinner and a lacquer thinner. The quickest way to distinguish the two thinners is that the alcohol type thinner contains a blue cap while the lacquer type has a yellow cap. You want the Tamiya thinner with the yellow cap. Tamiya paints spray much better and go on much smoother when using the lacquer thinner. You will also notice less of that dreaded sandy build-up on the surface of the model often obtained with Tamiya XF paints. This is very important because I apply successive layers of paints when working toward the highlights. Therefore it is very important that all of these layers spray on smooth to help ensure a nice sound basecoat."

Eric

 

A model boat is much cheaper than a real one and won't sink with you in it.

  • Member since
    April 2005
  • From: Australia
Posted by taxtp on Thursday, December 31, 2015 3:59 PM

Thanks for the compliments everyone.

Brandon, thanks for posting that. I'm also planning a Hungarian F-8, and possibly a Turkish 190 as well.

A little more on the French 190s. There was an assembly plant at Cravant, and post war they had 127 fuselages and 165 wings, and were able to source BMW engines also. They planned to build 125 of them. However, due to problems with quality, sabotage or just poor quality, maybe reject parts, they concluded the production run at 65, and they only stayed in service for a year or two.

I read somewhere a while ago that they went for the 190s, as it worked out much cheaper as an interim fighter than buying Spitfires. It's easy to imagine that decision in the cash strapped immediate post war period after 4 years of occupation.

I went for Vert Kaki as the camo color on this build as it was the only green I could find reference to for French aircraft of that period, other than left over supplies of the RLM colors. Given a lack of definitive reference on the type of green, at least it had some logic behind it. I did google up so images of these aircraft, and one did have a blotchy, perhaps weathered finish as the art work suggests. Several were relatively clean, and given the short post war service life, it seemed an ok choice to go with that.

The Berna decal sheet that  I used, 72-45, also has markings for a French He 162 and Do 335, which I'm keen to do. It's the 2nd 190 I've done off the sheet, as some were painted grey also, and I had previously done one of those. Unfortunately  I found that the decal sheet has rudder flashes for more aircraft tha nthe sheet has roundels for, so I had to dig very deep into the stash to find replacements. These roundels have a thin yellow outer band, which makes them harder to find. Correct sized wing roundels came from an Azur Dassault Ouragan which will have to get IAF markings unless I can get replacements. The fuselage roundels are from a Decals Carpena sheet for MS 406s, with the blue centre 'dot' from the Berna sheet to correctly match the other decals.

I can't provide any scientific data on Lifecolours, only the empirical data from my use of it.

I gave it a day of drying time, then sprayed Gunze Aqueous gloss clear, thinned with Tamiya acrylic thinner, over it as a base for the decals. They were given maybe 12 hours drying time then the whole thing was sprayed with Testors Dullcote, thinned with hardware store lacquer thinner. Another overnight wait to dry. The weather here is hot and dry at the moment, so I only spray late night or early morning when it's a hot day.

Most of the smaller parts and painting was accomplished without handling the airframe, however the final stages did involve some handling, both with and without cotton gloves. I guess I was curious to test the fragility of the finish a little. I didn't notice this finish to be any more fragile than most of the other acrylic paints that I mainly use, Tamiya and Gunze aqueous. I did touch up a couple of spots around the wheel wells, and the brush painted Lifecolor blended in perfectly and was unnoticeable. Very pleasing.

I also brushed painted the wheel wells with Lifecolor RLM 02 and washed them with Flory's wash later the same day. No issues, and they brush painted quite nicely.

I usually try to build 'projects' of up to five aircraft with a similar theme. In this case, it's German types in French colors. This is aircraft three of the 'project'. I've included some photos of all three.

Cheers

Tony

I'm just taking it one GB at a time.

  • Member since
    January 2015
Posted by BrandonD on Thursday, December 31, 2015 3:07 PM

Tony - Nice 190! I'm a sucker for French aircraft, and I really love the Fw-190, so it's nice to see them both combined. You did a great job.

I have a reference book for the 190, and I was excited to see it has color profiles of two I'm working on (A Hungarian F-8 and the Airfix A-8 box art), and it also has a French one. Here is a pic with a little bit of history about it. Kind of scary about being built with sabotaged parts.

Eric - I don't think I ever replied to you, and I apologize. I laughed out loud at your description of ship modeling. I think I may hold off on that for a bit :)

But yeah... biplanes...

-BD-

  • Member since
    December 2002
  • From: Bury St Edmunds, Suffolk, England
Posted by Bish on Thursday, December 31, 2015 12:49 PM
Thanks for the heads up Bob. I will leave it a few weeks anyway as I tend not to post the round up's as soon as the GB has finished.

I am a Norfolk man and i glory in being so

 

On the bench: Airfix 1/72nd Harrier GR.3/Fujimi 1/72nd Ju 87D-3

  • Member since
    November 2003
  • From: Nashville, TN area
Posted by bobbaily on Thursday, December 31, 2015 12:41 PM

Bish-I'm still working on the King Tiger but please don't wait for me to post-at this point I have no time frame for a completition date-sometime in 2016 is the target now.....

Going to try to start and complete a GB within the time frame this year....

Bob

 

  • Member since
    December 2002
  • From: Bury St Edmunds, Suffolk, England
Posted by Bish on Thursday, December 31, 2015 12:24 PM

Tony, got your build aded to the front page.

 

Guys, can i just get a quick heads up. Apart from JOE RIX, is there anyone else still building. As always, you can still post progress pics after today. I will, as usual, post a GB round up for the rest of the forum members to see your builds, but i would like to hang on until we are all done.

I am a Norfolk man and i glory in being so

 

On the bench: Airfix 1/72nd Harrier GR.3/Fujimi 1/72nd Ju 87D-3

  • Member since
    January 2015
Posted by Moff on Thursday, December 31, 2015 8:53 AM

Nice job on the FW-190! The green really shows off the curves of the bird. 

"Gaiety is the most outstanding feature of the Soviet Union." - Josef Stalin 

  • Member since
    December 2002
  • From: Bury St Edmunds, Suffolk, England
Posted by Bish on Thursday, December 31, 2015 12:20 AM

Nice work on the 190 Tony. I will get that posted up tonight. Thanks for joining the GB and sharing your build with us all.

I am a Norfolk man and i glory in being so

 

On the bench: Airfix 1/72nd Harrier GR.3/Fujimi 1/72nd Ju 87D-3

  • Member since
    August 2009
  • From: MOAB, UTAH
Posted by JOE RIX on Wednesday, December 30, 2015 11:29 PM

Very cool Tony. You have done an excellent job on your 190.

"Not only do I not know what's going on, I wouldn't know what to do about it if I did". George Carlin

  • Member since
    April 2005
  • From: Australia
Posted by taxtp on Wednesday, December 30, 2015 10:27 PM

Happy New Year everyone. Here's my French FW 190A-5 using the Hasegawa 1/72 kit and Berna decals. I'm prepping the house for a News Years Eve party, so i'll post more details tomorrow once the pace is off.

Cheers
Tony

I'm just taking it one GB at a time.

  • Member since
    January 2015
Posted by Moff on Tuesday, December 29, 2015 5:13 PM

EBergrud: Wow! No one beats your quantity of writing. Thanks for the airbrushing info. I've got Lifecolor's Flesh Paint set, and that figure painting article in the January FSM got me interested. I'm planning on getting some sort of bust or figure soon. Maybe we could do a figure painting GB later this year? 

"Gaiety is the most outstanding feature of the Soviet Union." - Josef Stalin 

  • Member since
    February 2010
  • From: Berkeley CA/St. Paul MN
Posted by EBergerud on Tuesday, December 29, 2015 4:01 PM
One more thing about LifeColor. I'd spray it at low psi and do multiple light coats. Keep a moist paintbrush handy to wipe off the tip of the brush every 30 seconds or so - you'll probably see a little build up at the nozzle. Get that off and you can spray a very long time. LC and Vallejo will normally dry very quickly, hence the retarder. But ultimately your mileage may vary. Some folk are so good with the brush that they'll unconsciously adjust the airflow to the right level and get fine results with a brew that a less experienced airbrush hand would have trouble with. In retrospect, I should have done a lot more practice on paper - like a couple of hours - before touching plastic. Some modellers could airbrush a thinned color crayon with good results. Eric

 

A model boat is much cheaper than a real one and won't sink with you in it.

  • Member since
    February 2010
  • From: Berkeley CA/St. Paul MN
Posted by EBergerud on Tuesday, December 29, 2015 3:52 PM

Lifecolor: if taxtp says 70:30 with water a drop of retarder works you should try it. (On spare sheet plastic or a medical experiment kit - essential for new techniques.)  What I'd worry about with taxtp's method is a fragile finish. Here's the deal. Lifecolor is a true water based acrylic - it's like Vallejo or my beloved Goldens. As I recall LC is pretty thin - so it would be close to Vallejo Model Air. Vallejo makes an airbrush thinner for Model Air and it should work fine with LC. (LC has a thinner too - I've got it and it's clear like Vallejo.) You would not want to overthin a paint like this. The pigment is suspended in a very thin polymer. If you add too much liquid, the chemical bond in the paint will start to fail which would effect strength and at some time spray properties. I'd guess 30% is a little high - I'd do 20% max, but that would be fine for Model Air. Just in case, I'd get some "airbrush medium" that's made by Liquitex, Golden and by Vallejo for Model Color. It's a thin milky colored liquid that is a thin polymer which will keep the chemistry in balance. Something else is worth about $2. Go to a drugstore and buy a bottle of glycerin. Put in about a drop - not a lot (like you'd use retarder: too much is bad news) and it helps paint lay down beautifully. Put down too much and it lengthens the dry time and also softens the finish a bit. Again, experiment. I'm coming convinced that if you find the right mix, that water based acrylics can airbrush almost all patterns as well as solvent based lacquer/acrylics like Tamiya. (Tamiya still labels their paint as acrylic: it's a matter of definition, but do note on the label that Tamiya is both toxic and flammable: LC or Vallejo is neither. You could drink golden.) LC has great colors and their matte paints are really matte and they handbrush extremely well (the one thing solvent paints are poor at). Keep those lids tight or the paint will dry out fast. Anyway I'd use 15% water or Vallejo thinner with a drop of retarder (or glycerin) - and airbrush medium to thin farther if needed. But I'd sure try taxtp's ratio first. (Water based paints use "organic" and "inorganic" pigments - so one color might need a little different brew than another. An "organic" pigment is a dye and I believe solvent paints use them exclusively. BTW - just in case this hasn't become SOP, Tamiya and Gunze paints cry for their own brand of lacquer thinner - not A-20 or any acrylic thinner which is glorified ISP. Both Tamiy and Gunze sell lacquer thinners and either will work with both brands of paint - they are much milder than hardware store lacquer thinner which should never be used on styrene.)

Eric 

 

A model boat is much cheaper than a real one and won't sink with you in it.

  • Member since
    December 2002
  • From: Bury St Edmunds, Suffolk, England
Posted by Bish on Tuesday, December 29, 2015 12:54 PM

EBergerud
Bish - I think I missed a message a while back - at least I can't find it now. You talking about an acrylic paint pen to check whether the surface will clean after prime? I've never quite hit complete success - sure would help with NMS if I could. Am I right about the pen? Eric
 

Its an enamel pen made by Testors. Joe used it on an earlier build and he sent me one over, we can't get testors here. I have always struggled with seams, but that pen is a real gem, saves me having to give a coat of primer to check them and the silver really shows up the bits that need attention.

He used it on a build in another thread, so no, you didn't miss anything here.

I am a Norfolk man and i glory in being so

 

On the bench: Airfix 1/72nd Harrier GR.3/Fujimi 1/72nd Ju 87D-3

  • Member since
    January 2015
Posted by Moff on Tuesday, December 29, 2015 8:31 AM

ygmodeler4: That's some interesting stuff going on with the lentils there. I'll be curious to see how it turns out. Where was this article you're referencing to? 

EBergrud: Good job on the Kubelwagen! 

JOE RIX: Nice prgress on your priming there, and thank you for your compliments. 

bobbailey: I love KTs! I'll be following that build with interest. 

stikpusher: That Ohka looks great! I like the way the panel lines show through just enough. 

jgeratic: Thanks for the info on the string. I never knew Bill Plunk used string!

taxtp: I'm interestied to see someone finally give an opinion on airbrushed Lifecolor paint. Please let me know how it works out, if you're planning on using it throughout the build. From my experience using it for brush work, it cleans up easier than any other paint brand I've tried.

Thanks to everyone else for your kind words about the JS-3 build. I can't wait to see how some of this stuff will turn out!

"Gaiety is the most outstanding feature of the Soviet Union." - Josef Stalin 

  • Member since
    February 2010
  • From: Berkeley CA/St. Paul MN
Posted by EBergerud on Tuesday, December 29, 2015 1:05 AM
Bish - I think I missed a message a while back - at least I can't find it now. You talking about an acrylic paint pen to check whether the surface will clean after prime? I've never quite hit complete success - sure would help with NMS if I could. Am I right about the pen? Eric

 

A model boat is much cheaper than a real one and won't sink with you in it.

  • Member since
    December 2002
  • From: Bury St Edmunds, Suffolk, England
Posted by Bish on Tuesday, December 29, 2015 12:34 AM

That looks really good Joe. And yep, those pens are more than worth it.

I am a Norfolk man and i glory in being so

 

On the bench: Airfix 1/72nd Harrier GR.3/Fujimi 1/72nd Ju 87D-3

  • Member since
    August 2009
  • From: MOAB, UTAH
Posted by JOE RIX on Monday, December 28, 2015 11:35 PM

Continuing to make forward progress. At least amongst the holiday mayhem I was able to get the primer coat on. I primed with Alclad gray lacquer primer/filler. Now, normally getting a primer coat on is not such a big deal. But, in this case, it was for me. You see, this was the first time ever that I have applied the primer and found that I had done such a good job of filling and sanding that I had no further work to do. Yes, nailed it the first time. Have to admit that that is pretty awesome feeling. Indeed Bish, that silver paint pen paid off in spades. I will give a quick wet sand to smooth the primer coat out and then hopefully get the Alclad airframe aluminum on on New Years eve.

Here's how it looks for now:

"Not only do I not know what's going on, I wouldn't know what to do about it if I did". George Carlin

  • Member since
    January 2014
  • From: Toronto
Posted by Rob S. on Monday, December 28, 2015 3:47 PM

Fantastic work Stik and Eric...what an epic build this was...Well done to all!!

______________________________________________________________________________

 

On the Bench: Nothing on the go ATM

  • Member since
    December 2002
  • From: Bury St Edmunds, Suffolk, England
Posted by Bish on Monday, December 28, 2015 2:27 AM
190 is looking nice Tony.

I am a Norfolk man and i glory in being so

 

On the bench: Airfix 1/72nd Harrier GR.3/Fujimi 1/72nd Ju 87D-3

  • Member since
    August 2009
  • From: MOAB, UTAH
Posted by JOE RIX on Sunday, December 27, 2015 5:24 PM

Excellent Tony. You are making some great progress. Your construction, putty and paint look just fine. Thanks for the tip on using Lifecolor paints. I've tried them with modest results but, your tip on thinning and adding retardant will inspire me to try them again. They have some great colors and I'd like to use them successfully.

By the way, that was me that asked about the wing root issues and I'm glad to here you had no problems. Mine were a pain to deal with.

"Not only do I not know what's going on, I wouldn't know what to do about it if I did". George Carlin

  • Member since
    April 2005
  • From: Australia
Posted by taxtp on Sunday, December 27, 2015 3:52 PM

Stikpusher - I liked your Okha somewhere else too, but it's a great model from an ancient kit. I'm glad you showed it here.

Eric - I REALLY like your Kubelwagen.

Bob - good progress on the King Tiger. The only DML armor kit I'vetried is their 1/72 Abrams...didnt like it, one of the few kits I've attempted that made it all the way into the bin.

Here's some more progress on my FW 190, and I didn't really get a wing root fit issue Bob. Maybe you just got a bad one,  I think that happens. The pre shading is Tamiya acrylic Nato Black, the paint itself is Lifecolor Vert Kaki. It's my first use of Lifecolor. After googling how to airbrush it,  I settled on thinning it 70:30 with Distilled water and a couple of drops of acrylic retarder. It worked like a dream and I'll have no hesitation in using it again.

Cheers

Tony

I'm just taking it one GB at a time.

  • Member since
    July 2004
  • From: Sonora Desert
Posted by stikpusher on Sunday, December 27, 2015 12:30 PM

EB, this kit could easily be modified into the jet engined version as the one in Smithsonian. And yes, I suspect that if Operations Coronet and Olympic had come to pass, these things could have scored far more hits and caused much greater losses than their limited use at Okinawa.

Joe and Bish, this was a fun  little build. Just what I needed to get back in the groove.

 

F is for FIRE, That burns down the whole town!

U is for URANIUM... BOMBS!

N is for NO SURVIVORS...

       - Plankton

LSM

 

  • Member since
    August 2009
  • From: MOAB, UTAH
Posted by JOE RIX on Sunday, December 27, 2015 8:26 AM

Stik: Outstanding Ohka. You certainly put some beautiful workmanship into that. Thanks for sharing it with us.

Eric: Safe travels my friend.

"Not only do I not know what's going on, I wouldn't know what to do about it if I did". George Carlin

  • Member since
    December 2002
  • From: Bury St Edmunds, Suffolk, England
Posted by Bish on Sunday, December 27, 2015 2:51 AM
Thanks Carlos. I do like the look of that, never seen a kit of it before. Really nice job.

I am a Norfolk man and i glory in being so

 

On the bench: Airfix 1/72nd Harrier GR.3/Fujimi 1/72nd Ju 87D-3

  • Member since
    February 2010
  • From: Berkeley CA/St. Paul MN
Posted by EBergerud on Sunday, December 27, 2015 2:30 AM

Like it stik - very neat. A little messing and you could make that for the 46 build. The Japanese were working on a lot of late war weapons that they were never going to get to work. However, a fully self-powered (or perhaps one launched immediately after a mother ship take off) Baka - Cherry Blossum - whatever, showed real promise. The thing only hit a target once but sunk it in about five minutes. Unlike a bomb carried on a plane that would almost have to explode on contact, the rocket could be fused to properly penetrate. That could have knocked out capital ships - sink them even. They just couldn't figure out a good way to launch it, but it sounds like they were on the right track especially if the thing only had to fly about 50 miles - like off Kyushu.

Eric

 

A model boat is much cheaper than a real one and won't sink with you in it.

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