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75th Anniversary of 1944 Group Build (World at War)

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  • Member since
    February 2010
  • From: Berkeley CA/St. Paul MN
Posted by EBergerud on Monday, January 27, 2020 3:38 AM

 

Bogue is almost in port.

 

The kit itself is done. I was asking myself before this build whether this would be my last ship? My hand/eye isn't getting better and ships mean very small parts, PE and rigging. Things actually worked out okay - I didn't use all of the mini PE but the radars/masts above the bridge actually went together pretty well. And the rigging - there isn't much on a carrier - worked out ok. (I checked out Bogue builds on the very expert Model Warship site and several weren't rigged at all.) So I'd say I could build another ship - except for one hitch. I've never dropped a whole model in my life. I dropped Bogue twice - and it did damage the bridge PE. I was able to kind of fix it - and it still looks far better than the very klutzy plastic radars/masts that come with the kit. But the PE on the bridge is a little akimbo - you can bet I'll hide that with the camera. The trouble with good PE is that it is, by definition pretty fragile. Trying to realign bent PE in place (removing it would not have been a good idea at all) is never perfect. We'll live with it.

 

I described the colors I mixed for the ship. Navy Blue and Deck Blue are actually pretty close - but Deck Blue should be just a tad darker and a slightly different hue. I did make my colors a little more distinct than I should, but I didn't want them to look the same. (Should add that I gave the kit some filters including two coats of napthol red and platho blue mixed - which created a lovely purple. Also as noted earlier, all of the colors on this ship are actually purple blue - but I sure didn't want to over do that. The filters gave a subtle push in the right direction and I'm pleased with the basic colors.) Both were very heavily weathered - as the photo record clearly shows is accurate. But they're weathered differently. I used a lot of oils everywhere (reinforced sometimes with my Iwata Com.Art). I wanted to give a blotchy effect which I think is 100% accurate for a busy WWII warship. The salt wages war against the vessel and there's a lot of painting going on here and there more or less all the time. But the ship would only get a "factory paint job" if in for a visit to the drydock. The blackbasing with the primer was a good start. I also did a lot of fading here and there along with streaking (also most evident in photos). A dot of white oil worked into a small area gives a nice blotchy fade that sits next to a darker bit.

 

 Starbd by Eric Bergerud, on Flickr

 

The deck got a heavy weather. I've seen color photos of carrier decks where the Deck Blue paint clearly shows wood peeking out. So the deck got a proper salt fade for ultra blotch. I also gave it several blotches of oil fading and a lot of wood colored chipping along with umber/black wash. I'd like to have a little more wood visible, but this is okay.

 

 deckdet by Eric Bergerud, on Flickr

 

 lft-ft by Eric Bergerud, on Flickr

 

And just for kicks the Bogue build encouraged me to make a couple of repairs to an Accurate Miniatures TBF that I did a few years back. Terrific kit, although all AM models have a sting in the tail somewhere. As you can see, I painted it in Atlantic colors - and that got me interested in Bogue and her pals in the lethal hunter/killer groups unleashed against the U-Boats in late 43.

 

 BogueTBF by Eric Bergerud, on Flickr

 

Not done yet though. I have to put together some aircraft. (I could leave them off, I've seen many photos with clear decks - I'd guess the planes were on the hangar deck.) More to the point I need to construct a small water base. Doing a water base is a hard core 8th grade art project, and I enjoy those.

 

Eric

 

 

A model boat is much cheaper than a real one and won't sink with you in it.

  • Member since
    September 2003
  • From: AandF in the Badger State
Posted by checkmateking02 on Tuesday, January 21, 2020 2:29 PM

You've sure put in a lot of work, Zvezda; but it looks like it's going well.  Nice job constructing it!

 

  

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  • Member since
    September 2003
  • From: AandF in the Badger State
Posted by checkmateking02 on Tuesday, January 21, 2020 2:27 PM

Excellent, AA.  Weathering adds the final touch.  Very realistic appearance.

I cropped the photo a little, to bring it up closer and show off the deatail.  Finish photo is up for viewing on the front page.

Thanks for being part of the GB.  It was a pleasure having you join in.  

  

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  • Member since
    January 2013
  • From: Athens, Greece
Posted by Zvezda1980 on Monday, January 20, 2020 6:21 AM

Some quick update on the build.

Basically I assembled the wings and after a lot of test fitting, I attached them to the fuselage. Same sequence was repeated for the engine cowling. From there, I started a marathon of sanding, filling of gaps with melted sprue and sanding again. Seams are checked with markers at various intervals.

Landing gear wells interior details were added from Eduard's PE set and then the landing gear housings were attached. Voila, some new gaps to fill.

All required rescribing will be done after filling/sanding and the final shaping of the kit's geometry are completed. 

And sanding, eee.... I mean the build goes on.

 

 

  • Member since
    January 2013
  • From: Athens, Greece
Posted by Zvezda1980 on Monday, January 20, 2020 6:01 AM

AA: Very nice and realistic vehicle. The stowed items are perfect.

Ed: Thumbs Up for your painting and choice of subject.

Eric: That's a very clever (and good looking) painting approach. I am anticipating to seeing it completed.

  • Member since
    March 2017
Posted by Armor_Aficionado on Sunday, January 19, 2020 5:14 PM

Alright, the M-8 is finally DONE!  Heres the final reveal:

 

Hope yall like it!  I'd like either the first or last picture in this series to be the picture in the front page completion gallery; thanks.

 

 

  • Member since
    July 2008
  • From: Co.Kerry, Ireland.
Posted by Est.1961 on Sunday, January 19, 2020 3:23 PM

Nice work on the Greyhound, will check in again for the finish.

Joe

  • Member since
    September 2003
  • From: AandF in the Badger State
Posted by checkmateking02 on Sunday, January 19, 2020 11:30 AM

Looks great, AA.  The load makes it appear ready for action.

  

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  • Member since
    March 2017
Posted by Armor_Aficionado on Friday, January 17, 2020 2:49 PM

 

Got all my stowed equipment added (which luckily covered up some of the worst parts of the decals), now just have to add some more mud, dust, etc. to finish the weathering:

 

 

  • Member since
    September 2003
  • From: AandF in the Badger State
Posted by checkmateking02 on Thursday, January 16, 2020 9:48 PM

Excellent results, Eric.  And a very useful overview of the Navy's camouflage measures.  Thanks.

  

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  • Member since
    February 2010
  • From: Berkeley CA/St. Paul MN
Posted by EBergerud on Tuesday, January 14, 2020 11:25 PM

 

Bogue Update:

 I threatened last time to black base a ship and so far I'm pretty happy. The idea is get a blotchy and uneven base coat to begin the weathering stages with. I'm looking for a blotchy and weathered wartime vessel which was very appropriate to WWII vessels that spent a lot of time on salt water. Below is a pretty good pic of Bogue - and you should get the idea. (I used Camo Measure 22 which was phased out sometime in 1944 for a splinter scheme. No way was I going to do a splinter on a ship this small - I much prefer Measure 22 (usually found in the Atlantic) anyway.

  Bogue3 by Eric Bergerud, on Flickr

Here's the recipe. Paint ship with black primer (I used Stynelrez.)

  primed by Eric Bergerud, on Flickr

 Then you apply a very uneven "mottle coat" - kind of looks like fine squiggles - on the black. This is the lower hull which will end up Navy Blue:

  Mottle4 by Eric Bergerud, on Flickr

 

Then you spray a very low psi build up of the base color - as noted Navy Blue 5-N. You want the uneven finish to remain visible - this is really a kind of random preshading.

  base1 by Eric Bergerud, on Flickr

 Here's a pic of the kit with all three colors on the base: the lower hull is Navy Blue 5N; the upper hull and superstructure is Haze Gray 5-H, and the deck which is - surprise - Deck Blue 20-B.

  basepaint by Eric Bergerud, on Flickr

 I suppose I should say something about the colors. USN WWII model paint colors do not grow on trees - LifeColor makes them as does CoulorCoates enamels (old White Ensign). The vaunted AK Real Color range (highly praised by Japanese paint guru Nick Millman for the hard to find Japanese aviation colors) has a USN camo set, but from what I can tell on a monitor, they don't have Navy Blue or Deck Blue correct. (It looks like they have both a blue-gray, with Deck Blue the lighter. My monitor could deceive. But if this description is accurate, AK isn't right.) If you don't care about colors - you're probably smart. If you enjoyed 8th grade art class and obsess about them like me (I don't care a fig about aircraft cockpits: nor tools on tanks nor a lot of other things) USN subjects are great fun. Tracy White is a USN fanatic who collaborated with Snyder and Short on the indespensible USN WWII Ship Camoflauge web site: http://www.shipcamouflage.com/index.htm. I write military history and have a lot of color books on WWII subjects and am sure White and Snyder/Short are spot on. Here's the deal. After Pearl Harbor and the instant importance of aircraft, not to mention submarines, became obvious, the wartime Navy began to shift to and redefine wartime color schemes. This was all done in a wartime context of limited materials. In addition, ships at sea and pounded by salt air/water for long periods - increasingly the case in WWII - were painted bit by bit more or less all of the time. (Some of the 1944-45 USN Pacific ships are a riot of colors thanks to fading, rust and a common flirtation with splinter camo.) What this meant was that the USN settled on ships painted in a kind of Purple Blue Hue that vary basically with the amount of white put into them. Tracy said every ship had cans of a very thick very dark purple paint that they mixed with other cans of very thick white paint. (Not sure about the solvent. I do know the very rugged pigment cadmium was not available because it was needed for making armor plate - this meant all colors were less than idea when fighting salt water. And that "purple" paste would have been a chromatic black with a purple/blue hue) The Navy abandoned these paints on VJ Day (deciding their schemes didn't really help that much) and never put them into the Federal Standard data base. So what color were they? They were defined using the still popular (and very neat when you figure it out) Munsell Color System. All major USN WWII colors were in the Purple/Blue Hue (think of that as general color type) and varied in "value" (lightness) and "chroma" (saturation). Within a hue, the higher the value, the lighter the color, the higher the chroma, the less saturated. As luck would have it, I own a Munsell student book and can see exactly what's up. The Munsell numbers are Navy Blue Value 3.5/Chroma 3; Deck Blue Value 3, Chroma 4; Haze gray value 6, chroma 3. In practice this means all of these colors are related - deck blue is the darkest, but it is slight less saturated than Navy Blue. Haze Gray is highly saturated but the lightest. Now, I could have used my Life Color paints that are quite accurate, but are hard to airbrush. (I used them and my CoulorCoates as samples - very useful.) Here's where my Golden High Flow paints come up trumps. They airspray like a dream and are by far the best water based acrylic to use for black basing. (The acrylic/lacquers like Gunze, MRP or Tamiya are the best - but I don't have a booth and can't use them.) Golden makes paints for artists and while it doesn't have specific military colors it does have artist mixing colors with powerful and expensive pigments which are an absolute gas if you like to play with paint. I took me two damn days to get my colors right and I enjoyed every minute of it. Each color comes from a "chromatic black" base made with Quinacridone Red; Platho Blue (green shade) and Hansa Yellow. In practice it was needed to cut each with bits of white: sienna, black, neutral gray and Prussian Blue appear in tiny quantities. There's also scale effect which is important for a 1700/scale vessel. I lightened the value of each color a bit - I also exaggerated the differences between the three paints. (Deck and Navy Blue are first cousins but not twins - so I made them second cousins.)

 I'll have closer pics farther along on the projects. Of course I haven't started weathering yet - that'll be oils, Iwata Com.Art acrylics for streaking and maybe even some pigments. Fading will be an important goal. And we will need a water base which is also fun. It may be that when the weathering is done all of the fancy paint mixing and spray techniques won't mean much. We'll see. More later.

 Eric

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

A model boat is much cheaper than a real one and won't sink with you in it.

  • Member since
    September 2003
  • From: AandF in the Badger State
Posted by checkmateking02 on Thursday, January 9, 2020 6:38 PM

Good job!  Now it's visible.  Great looking plane!

  

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  • Member since
    July 2008
  • From: Co.Kerry, Ireland.
Posted by Est.1961 on Thursday, January 9, 2020 5:05 PM

Thanks I'll try this  " alt="" />

  • Member since
    September 2003
  • From: AandF in the Badger State
Posted by checkmateking02 on Thursday, January 9, 2020 3:56 PM

I'm getting a "404 error," Est 1961.

  

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  • Member since
    July 2008
  • From: Co.Kerry, Ireland.
Posted by Est.1961 on Thursday, January 9, 2020 7:14 AM

  • Member since
    September 2003
  • From: AandF in the Badger State
Posted by checkmateking02 on Wednesday, January 8, 2020 9:12 PM

Finished photo is posted and up, Ed.  I quite like the Psalm 23 motiff.

Thanks for being part of the GB.  You accomplished some wonderful work on the Mustang.

  

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  • Member since
    February 2010
  • From: New Jersey
Posted by 68GT on Wednesday, January 8, 2020 10:26 AM

Thanks, I would imagine the 1st or 2nd are the best shots.

On Ed's bench, ???

  • Member since
    September 2003
  • From: AandF in the Badger State
Posted by checkmateking02 on Tuesday, January 7, 2020 4:11 PM

Excellent, Ed.  This is a great looking Mustang!  Nice job!

Some photos I've seen seem to show a pretty flat, dull NMF on Mustangs after being in service for a while, so I don't think it's a problem for your build.  It's quite effective.

Which photo do you prefer for the finish picture? 

Thanks again for being part of the GB.

  

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  • Member since
    February 2010
  • From: New Jersey
Posted by 68GT on Tuesday, January 7, 2020 4:02 PM

Revell P-51D is done relativly clean put weathered. 

On Ed's bench, ???

  • Member since
    February 2010
  • From: New Jersey
Posted by 68GT on Sunday, January 5, 2020 9:03 AM

Was happy with the weathering but I feel the clear is way too flat.  I'll have to play around and come up with a semi gloss mix.

Too flat!

A little more gloss added.

 

On Ed's bench, ???

  • Member since
    September 2003
  • From: AandF in the Badger State
Posted by checkmateking02 on Saturday, January 4, 2020 6:02 PM

Good step, 68GT.

Looking forward to the outcome, Eric.

  

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  • Member since
    February 2010
  • From: Berkeley CA/St. Paul MN
Posted by EBergerud on Saturday, January 4, 2020 4:11 PM
It's all in one piece ok. This kit is very small - maybe 8". When I make warships I build the bulk of the kit and then paint (I've never primed at all) and put on turrets etc later. The carrier is so much simpler and there won't be a lot of rigging. I do a fair amount of hand painting regardless (the planes will take a while). The reason I'm giving black basing a shot is that a well used carrier deck has wood showing clearly through the "Deck Blue." In addition, WWII ships were at sea a lot (Bogue was very active) which means they were sort of always being painted bit by bit - salt doesn't like metal and paint. So they're really quite blotchy - even at 1/700. The 1944-45 USN in the Pacific was at sea so much (they had a third fleet made up of oilers and supply ships to complement the temporary harbors like Manus) that many of their ships had substantial discoloration and often rust. Ship builders, in my experience, underweather their ships. I have clear pics of warships that were really beaten up (there are famous color pics of both KGV and Prince of Wales that are seriously weathered - ditto with 1944-45 USN ships) but you don't often see it modeled. The kits take a long time and there's so much detail involved - I think some builders might think that weathering is either risky or can distract from the very high level of build skills shown in a well made ship. I couple of years back I did a USS Hobson (a DD that did important work at Omaha beach) and gave it a well weathered measure 22. I got a note from a Navy vet who served in the same Desron as "Turner Joy" and "Maddox" of Tonkin Gulf fame: he said my weathering was very accurate and that it was rarely done right. That made me feel good. That said, we'll call this kit a success when it's done. Eric

 

A model boat is much cheaper than a real one and won't sink with you in it.

  • Member since
    February 2010
  • From: New Jersey
Posted by 68GT on Saturday, January 4, 2020 10:51 AM

Thanks, went with a dark gray sludge wash this morning to tone down the silver and give subtle highlights to the panel lines.

On Ed's bench, ???

  • Member since
    September 2003
  • From: AandF in the Badger State
Posted by checkmateking02 on Saturday, January 4, 2020 9:20 AM

That's a novel, approach, Eric--building the ship; then painting it.  And I'm not sure I've ever heard of black-basing a ship either.   This will be interesting to see!

AA:  it's looking good, though.  Too bad about the decals.  If memory serves, I think I've heard that Tamiya's kit decals are uncooperative.  In addition to Micro-Solve and Set, I keep Solvaset around too.  It's pretty tough stuff and sometimes works where others don't.  When you do the weathering, it might cover up the silvering.  

  

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  • Member since
    February 2010
  • From: Berkeley CA/St. Paul MN
Posted by EBergerud on Saturday, January 4, 2020 1:21 AM

I did a winter M8 a couple of years back - worked out very well. I actually bought resin tires with chains from Verlinden - one of my very rare after market buys. It's a nice kit of a neat vehicle.

OK: I primed Bogue with Stynelrez. I know many people spray it straight and heavy - I had much better luck with a little thinner and low PSI. I had forgotten it's gloss - I suppose for NMF. (I'll be using the satin Duplicolor Hot Rod Black for the P-51 - it's the perfect primer unless you want a super shinny finish.) We'll have to see how black basing works with ships. Tonight I'll have to make some paint colors - that's actually fun in my book.

Eric

 primed by Eric Bergerud, on Flickr

 

A model boat is much cheaper than a real one and won't sink with you in it.

  • Member since
    March 2017
Posted by Armor_Aficionado on Friday, January 3, 2020 2:49 PM

Got the decals applied and the antennae installed.  I wasn't happy with the Tamiya decals.  I used a good thick coat of gloss, and plenty of Mciro-Sol/Micro-Set, and these were very new decals, but they still silvered badly.  Now I just have to weather it and add some stowage, and it will be done!

 

  • Member since
    February 2010
  • From: Berkeley CA/St. Paul MN
Posted by EBergerud on Friday, January 3, 2020 3:42 AM

 

Hi again gents. See there are still some kits building so I'm not alone. Dio looks very good. IL-2 and P-51 are coming along - I may be going over old ground for the 1945 build. I'm thinking of starting out with either a Meng P-51D (very neat kit - Zero seams, perfecto for NMF) or the great looking Tamiya IL-2. We'll see. (I've got a Hobby Boss FW-190D, an important plane that's been very poorly served by Eduard and Tamiya - the HB looks very good.)

 

Real world has slowed down important things but I do have some progress. I actually thought that I'd have the Bogue finished by year's end. Events didn't cooperate, but neither did the kit. I figured a 1/700 small vessel with a pretty low part count and not a lot of rigging would be a quick build - for a ship. Hmmm....wrong. First of all, this kit was produced in the early 80s (maybe earlier methinks) by a Japanese company called Pit Road. Tamiya picked it up, reboxed it and through in aircraft found on its 1/700 kits - late war Enterprise and Saratoga, so only the TBF is really authentic. No matter there. This kit was crude. The fit wasn't bad, but it had no holes and pegs - none. Fortunately the hull and deck were all one piece, but everything else had to go on via eyeball. I was using a lot of my mix of Tamiya thin and regular (orange cap) - could only use Extra Thin to finish off the pieces. There were a lot of small bits - 20mm guns, rafts, spotlights etc - easy to get that stuff on the floor and very trying on my eyes that are not getting younger.

 

And then there was the PE. I got a generic set for a US CVE from Tom's - a good PE vendor in my experience, although the set I got didn't not match the instructions exactly. (I didn't make PE 20mm - that would have taken a very long time - and there weren't anywhere near enough of them.) But there are rails here and there around the hull - you actually have to kind of look for them. Those are worth the bother. So was the PE radar setup on top of the bridge - the plastic was a real dud. It looks okay now. However, ships are so delicate that I worry about breaking something just handling it. Things are tense until it's all done.

 

The pic below is the kit complete. But what comes next? I think I'm going to black base a ship - hoping that will work on the deck. Definitely going to take some liberties and put it in the standard Atlantic markings (Navy Blue, Haze Gray, Deck Blue) and forget splinter - that would not be worth the serious time - and extra handling - required. And then we have to make a base. And paint the 1/700 scale airplanes. This is a couple or three weeks off from finis. But I will finish barring a California earthquake.

 

Eric

 

 Kitfinish by Eric Bergerud, on Flickr

 

 

A model boat is much cheaper than a real one and won't sink with you in it.

  • Member since
    September 2003
  • From: AandF in the Badger State
Posted by checkmateking02 on Thursday, January 2, 2020 3:21 PM

There's less of mine than there used to be!  Big Smile

  

Alifero tollitur axe ceres

 

 

 

  • Member since
    February 2010
  • From: New Jersey
Posted by 68GT on Thursday, January 2, 2020 11:40 AM

Wow, I dont think I would have the patience for that anymore.

On Ed's bench, ???

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