ARMOR - Pz IV Group Build

Feldgrau,
looking at the Japanese language instructions online
at http://www.1999.co.jp/eng/plamo/index_e.asp?Bno=&Typ1_c=102
then searching for the kit under 1/35 tanks,
step 7 shows the Afrika Corps version, i think (i can't read Japanese!)
but the English instructions should say.
anyway, that step shows the applique armor, vented hatches & jerry can rack going on,
so i was thinking it meant for Afrika Corps.
there are some notes on sidebar and also by the number 7.

check it out.
if it does not say, i will check more sources.

achtungpanzer makes it seem that the turret stowage was first production on an E model,
http://www.achtungpanzer.com/pz3.htm

the more i find out, the less i know!

feldgrau23, I have not seen any pictured of Pz IVs in N Africa with the additional armor on. You would be safe to leave the armor off. As far as when the dampers will be completed, well… The first one will not be hard to make, but I don’t have much experience with resin castings yet, so it may take a while to make a good mold and get some decent castings. I will shoot for a week before I start to get some resin pieces done.

rolgan, love that paint job. It looks like an overall clean build. Looks like it just came out of the car wash though. Should you dirty it up a bit?

Rolgan,

Way cool... I like the camo... Weather it up a bit and you have a winner.... Good job!

Sounds like a lot of you are off to a great start! Way to go. Bill, the turtle, will be plodding along at a slower pace sometime in the future! lol

I Went to the hobby shop today and they didnt have the H or the J, So I will be doing the Tamiya D with a detail set also by tamiya.

Wildwilliam...... I read further into the instructions and they do in fact say that the extra armor is for the african version. Now like you I have yet to find any pics of the IVD in africa with the extra armor on it. but I will keep looking.

edog.... After looking at some pics I now know what you are talking about. It would appear the only ones that were used were the first one and the last one. My initial looks tell me that if I just take the three middle ones out and fill in with styrene I should be ok.

Here's the link to afv for those that don't have it.

http://afvinteriors.hobbyvista.com/pz4/pz4a.html

Also:
Improvements that were introduced with the D over previous varients were face hardened, 30mm thick frontal armor. And increasing the thickenss on the side and rear to 20mm.
35 mm thick external gun mantlet and the ball mounted machine gun was re-introduced.

Side visors that were designed for the 4./Z.W. were installed in the ausf D. These had 90mm laminated glass blocks.

Major changes during production included:
- mounting Notek and convoy tail lights on the track guards starting in Feb. 1940.
- adding 30mm plates to the superstructure and hull front stating in July 1940.

Major modifications were backfitted to earlier variants as well as converting 48 vehicles to Tauchpanzers in July/August 1940.

30 were converted for Tropen employment in North Africa in early 1941.

The 50mm hardened plates were added on the F as the design requirements came to late for the D or E and the 30mm plates were retained.

The instructions in my Tamiya kit are in English and German.

So Renarts I wont be wrong adding the extra plates to my African IVD???????

Squadrons, Panzer Colors 1 has a photo on page 31 of a Pzr4D in Tripoli in 1941. Though its from the rear. Its hard to say and I suppose given the time frame of the production mod and the retrofit there could be pzr4's in africa with the mod. But I, like you, have no photo documentation to support it. The one pic I do have that shows a front view of a burned out 4D in Libya does not have the applique mod.

based upon what I can come up with and the info I have is yes the applique can be used. Even if it wasa case of being backfitted since this mod started in July of 1940.

There is a photo in Panzer Tracts of a 4D witht he plates being backfitted. (But I will clarify it is not a desert pic)

A 4D in the British Army's Tank Museum is tricked out in DAK colors and markings and sports this applique armor.

So in all honesty, the info says yes, but I have no supporting period photo documentation.

looks like Mike has been picking up the slack while i have been goofing off w/ my Quad!
neither of my books contradicts his info.
i have found text indicating the adding of the plates in 40 and 41.
but no pics on a tank in North Africa.

i agree, based on the dates, it would be safe to add it.
but if you HAVE to have a picture, i can't help
(yet. i might stumble over something)

in the meantime, here are pics showing my neglected IV-D.
the 'thing growing out of the turret hole' is a piece of sprue glued
to my sponson plate. i used it to clamp on for painting,
and have not removed it yet, as it makes a convenient handle.

comments & criticism are welcome.
i can handle it.






most of this was assembled last fall before i put it aside for the Panther GB.
it is the first Armor kit i started, tho it will likely be the 5th one i finish!
there is still some detail painting pending (MGs)

Ed looks like a nice build.

hey Ed, What color(s) did you use to paint the hull of your D?

Trevor - thanks! there are some things i would do different, but aren't there always!

John - that is Tamiya XF-53 (Neutral Grey)
before i started painting, i checked the forum and there was a thread abt the Tamiya colors, particularly XF-63 (German Grey) and XF-53. the consensus seems to be that the 'German Grey' is too dark. others feel that both are lacking a 'blue tone'.
but i went with the lighter, and then lightened it further for 'scale effect'
and then lightened it more to fade the horizontal surfaces some.
it also has a was that is artist water color burnt umber (i think).
i think it was lacking the drop of dish detergeant, which is why there is a
'water stained' look to some of the wash.
the inside of the hatches and the inside of the turret was just thinned flat white,
somewhat haphazardly applied.
not sure what kind of effect i was going for, or achieved!
makes it look either hastily applied, or partly worn off. or dirty.

i think there is some silver dry brush or silver pencil around hatches or hinges.

Ok I have posted this in the A/C forum for their backwards build GB, so I will post it in this GB. If anyone needs pic of any armor vehicle let me know since I pass the U.S. Army Ordnance Museum everyday going and leaving work. I only live 10 minutes away from it also, so its not like you're asking me to perform a miracle. Besides that it will give plenty of time to get used to my new digital camera. You can email me or you can just post in here.

Mike,,, Thanks for the info,, you to wildwilliam. I was going to put it on but was hoping for more than just written proof that it was there. just our luck we go thru all this to find proof and we will probably find it when the build is finishing up.

Wild your D looks great. Buy the way what color did you use for the exhaust system on the back?? Looks like you used bronze.

Great looking Panzer.

Ed, what did you paint the muffler with?

Falcon, lucky guy to live so close to the museum.

I forgot to mention, I hope mine will turn out like that. (I know it wont)

i have been trying to jar my memory abt the muffler,
as i wanted to do it again on my Quad!

give me some time, and i might come up w/ it again.
i know i mixed two paints, one was probably somewhere around 'burnt iron'
or 'steel' from the MM family. the other may have been MM's 'rust.
i was trying for the over all 'rusty pipe' look.

i will look over the paint drawers when i get home tonight and see if it comes to me.

btw, to folks doing Tamiya's IV-D -
either i mis-assembled the main muffler or i could not get the smaller one in the right place exactly, as i could not get the pipe to come within shouting distance of the dimple on the back of the hull. or maybe Tamiya made the pipe short. but watch the fit on these pieces.
i ended up extending the pipe w/ some styrene rod and lived happily ever after.
also keep an eye on these pieces and how the upper part of the hull will go on.
i got into a tight spot. not sure if it was a tough fit, or an assembly mistake
(see above!)

thank you all for the compliments.
the pictures are probably better than the real thing!

Yah, the Tamiya Pz IV D is notorious for having a bad fitting muffler for the turret traverse engine. everyone I know that has built this kit, including myself, has had the same problem. It isn't a very hard fix though. I think I ended up trimming off the little part that bends into the hull. I think the joint is hidden and the fact that the pipe was a little short was not noticeable on my kit.

Ed,

Sorry I was remiss. I somehow missed your posted pics. Thanks for putting them up. It really looks terrific. I love the grey color you came up with, and your tools look great, too. Nice work!

Bill,
no problem!
i am certain it is because you have been slaving away at your bench,
and could not get on the internet.

edog,
that makes me feel better.
i was figured i had just screwed it up and then had to fix it.

Yea, Ed, that must be it!! (I wish!)

Well this weekwnd I've been tearing into the Panzer IVD.
Tamiya/MRC Kit No. 196A
Panzer Kampfwagen IV Ausf. D
ca. 1977 molds, in typical panzer grey plastic. The detail on this kit was really more than I expected. Very clean moldings and almost no flash. This particular one must be one of the early production moldings when detail was still really sharp. It's almost a shame to build this just because it is in such good shape and so clean. Even the tank cre figs are very cleanly molded and detail is probobly on par with current dragon stuff. Although no expression and blank caucasion faces there is a lot of detail to work with.

The older Eduard PE sheets I have have so far been o.k. fortunately the only lost PE has been as a result of one of the dogs trying to help and cruising the model table looking for treats. I think it got swept away and was lost. Nothing bad though, just a strp for the exhaust which was easily replaced with some styrene strip.

The exhaust was a bit fiddily but some concentration and a lot of aspirin got it too fit, since the alignment pieces had been shaved off to accoomodate the PE this made it a tad tricky.

I made some retaining chains for the smoke candel racks and containers on the back. Quite by accident really. My intention was after scouring the hobby shops and comming up empty handed, was to make the chains to scale. Crazy but worth the effort I thought. Made a small wire mandrell and started wrapping bead wire around it so I could pull it off and cut the links. In the process of doing this and getting ready to lose my mind I inadvertantly squashed the spring. Comming at the realization at this point that this was fruitless and that I didn't need any chains, I looked at it as I was fuming and figured if I flattened them out some more and then stretched them out they made a length of kinked and looped wire. This gave an impression of a chain and looked close enough.

The rest of the day will be spent on the suspension and lower hull.

06/19/2008

Hi Folks!!

I wished I knew about the Mk IV biuld earlier... But I just finished or nearly so.. My first German Panzer. A Tamiya IV-J. I have only done a few mod such as a partition between the engine and crew compartment and fill in the opening under the hull sponsons.. I also add Eduard PE Skurtzen... (Very Nice)



Any feedback would be appreicaited!

Later,

Ed Harley

I just may build somemore German stuff now....!

to the insane asylum Hibrass. Nice looking Panzer IV. I have the same kit, did you enjoy the build? Looking forward to starting it someday.

Hiya Tigerman,

I loved the build of the Tamiya J. Other than Tamiya's strange habit of leaving the under side of Hull Sponson empty.... ;-)

Now to get started on that Jumbo..... (I love OD..)

Later,

Hibrass

Thanks Hibrass, I was hoping you were a Panzer fanatic.