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Model Shipways "Phantom" Pilot Boat Group Build 2007

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  • Member since
    August, 2006
  • From: The Great State of Wyoming
Model Shipways "Phantom" Pilot Boat Group Build 2007
Posted by wyoroy on Saturday, April 14, 2007 2:48 PM

There seems to be three of us stating the Model Shipways Phantom boat.  So it would seem logical to start a group build.  The dates will be today 14 April 2007 to December 2007?  We can always extend the end date.  The rules are simple.....

Subject is Models Shipways Phantom; any and all improvements are welcomed.  And by all means plenty of pictures of progress and an excess of builder interaction.  Most of all it should be fun.  As for the GB badge if anyone has a great idea or suggestion please let me know. 

Phantom Group Build 2007:

Roy

Powder Monkey

hardingb

Donnie

Roy (Capt. Wyoroy FAAGB/USNFAWGB)

John 3:16

  • Member since
    November, 2005
  • From: Madison, Mississippi
Posted by Donnie on Saturday, April 14, 2007 7:05 PM

I designed the Badge for the Sultana, let me see if I can come up with a design for the phantom. I am glad to see that a GB is going to take place on this. IT may be a while before I can join in, maybe around June. This is great !!

Donnie

In Progress: OcCre's Santisima Trindad Finished Builds: Linbergs "Jolly Roger" aka La Flore Mantua's Cannone Da Costa Americano linberg's "Cptn Kidd" aka Wappen Von Hamburg Model Shipways 1767 Sultana Midwest Boothbay Lobsterboat (R/C)

  • Member since
    November, 2005
  • From: Madison, Mississippi
Posted by Donnie on Saturday, April 14, 2007 7:52 PM

What is the vote on this badge for the Phantom Group Build.  

 

 

 

 

 

.

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In Progress: OcCre's Santisima Trindad Finished Builds: Linbergs "Jolly Roger" aka La Flore Mantua's Cannone Da Costa Americano linberg's "Cptn Kidd" aka Wappen Von Hamburg Model Shipways 1767 Sultana Midwest Boothbay Lobsterboat (R/C)

  • Member since
    August, 2006
  • From: The Great State of Wyoming
Posted by wyoroy on Saturday, April 14, 2007 11:02 PM

Looks good for me.  Checked out your Sultana build, outstanding.  I was looking at that but decided the Phantom would work for my first wooden ship.  Lets see if anyone else has any comments.  It has my vote. Thumbs Up [tup]

Roy

Roy (Capt. Wyoroy FAAGB/USNFAWGB)

John 3:16

  • Member since
    November, 2005
  • From: Madison, Mississippi
Posted by Donnie on Sunday, April 15, 2007 10:47 AM

I used the Red / White becuase it seems that all the Phantoms that I see have this Red-White Flag on top of the main mast. The stars are from the era of 38 stars and it looks American being from New York. I just threw something together. Seriously, if everyone does not like it, I can come up with some more. I probably should have designed several to choose from.

I see that you probably know how to put that in your signature line. If approved, I would like to add this avatar to my Sultana avatar too.  

Happy building to you on your Phantom. It looks like alot of fun. Like I said, it may be June before I can catch up. If I can be of any help, please ask or PM me.

Donnie 

In Progress: OcCre's Santisima Trindad Finished Builds: Linbergs "Jolly Roger" aka La Flore Mantua's Cannone Da Costa Americano linberg's "Cptn Kidd" aka Wappen Von Hamburg Model Shipways 1767 Sultana Midwest Boothbay Lobsterboat (R/C)

  • Member since
    August, 2006
  • From: The Great State of Wyoming
Posted by wyoroy on Sunday, April 15, 2007 11:06 AM

You can be sure that I will ask you for help.  Since this is my first wooden ship and after looking at your Sultana your skills are way ahead of mine.  I very much like the badge.  I look forward to chating with you and sharing my progess over the coming months.

Roy

Roy (Capt. Wyoroy FAAGB/USNFAWGB)

John 3:16

  • Member since
    November, 2005
  • From: Madison, Mississippi
Posted by Donnie on Sunday, April 15, 2007 3:24 PM

Thank you for your kind comments. I am sure that their are ship builders out there that are much more experienced. But, it really comes down to enjoying what you are building and looking at your hard work. It simply comes down to what you like and what you are satisfied with. Working with wood is going to make every "same" ship appear slightly different. Everyone is unique. I will look forward to hearing from you. Don't give up. I am always around. I try to answer all my replies within a day.

 

Donnie

I guess if we do not hear from anyone else on the badge and since you like it, I guess we can go ahead and make it final. Since you are the one that is officially starting the Group Build, then you can vote the badge in. You can right click on the badge and save it and add it to your other Group Build. As a matter of fact, I might go ahead and add it unless someone tells me to remove it. !!!Big Smile [:D]

In Progress: OcCre's Santisima Trindad Finished Builds: Linbergs "Jolly Roger" aka La Flore Mantua's Cannone Da Costa Americano linberg's "Cptn Kidd" aka Wappen Von Hamburg Model Shipways 1767 Sultana Midwest Boothbay Lobsterboat (R/C)

  • Member since
    August, 2006
  • From: The Great State of Wyoming
Posted by wyoroy on Sunday, April 15, 2007 3:50 PM

Im easy going plus I really do like the badge.

Roy

Roy (Capt. Wyoroy FAAGB/USNFAWGB)

John 3:16

  • Member since
    June, 2005
  • From: Walworth, NY
Posted by Powder Monkey on Sunday, April 15, 2007 4:41 PM

Hi Guys,

 Just checking in. How do I add the badge to my signature? I have only done a little carving on the hull and am itching to get going.

 

Pete 

  • Member since
    August, 2006
  • From: The Great State of Wyoming
Posted by wyoroy on Sunday, April 15, 2007 6:19 PM

Go to this link and try the tutorial. 

/forums/643723/ShowPost.aspx

I and most of the other forum users use the link below.

http://www.photobucket.com/

You will be asked to register first.  After that do upload, click on browse, then select the picture from your picture folder on your PC.  Since you want to use the badge that Donnie created you first right click on the badge and select save picture and save it to a folder on your PC.  From there you can upload it from photobucket.  Try this and let me know if you still need some help.  I'm still pretty new at this also.  It took some time for me to figure it out and upload pictures of my own.  I will try to check my mail and the site regularly.  I almost forgot to add...you want to copy and past the image link from photobucket to your signature line.  You will have three links to pick from, you want the one labeled image.  I hope I have not forgotten anything or confussed you even more.

Good Luck,

Roy 

Roy (Capt. Wyoroy FAAGB/USNFAWGB)

John 3:16

  • Member since
    August, 2006
  • From: The Great State of Wyoming
Posted by wyoroy on Monday, April 16, 2007 4:08 PM

Pete,

It looks like you figured out the badge.  Did my directions help?  I have not done anything with the hull last weekend.  We are laying down wood flooring and I was doing the staircase all weekend.  I will have to set aside some time to shape that hull.  Once that is done things look to be easy going.

Roy

Roy (Capt. Wyoroy FAAGB/USNFAWGB)

John 3:16

  • Member since
    June, 2005
  • From: Walworth, NY
Posted by Powder Monkey on Monday, April 16, 2007 7:11 PM
The directions helped. I already had the photobucket account. I just needed the directions to add it to the signature. Thanks.
  • Member since
    November, 2005
  • From: Madison, Mississippi
Posted by Donnie on Tuesday, April 17, 2007 12:55 AM

Powder Monkey,

how far along are you on the phantom?

 

Donnie 

In Progress: OcCre's Santisima Trindad Finished Builds: Linbergs "Jolly Roger" aka La Flore Mantua's Cannone Da Costa Americano linberg's "Cptn Kidd" aka Wappen Von Hamburg Model Shipways 1767 Sultana Midwest Boothbay Lobsterboat (R/C)

  • Member since
    August, 2006
  • From: The Great State of Wyoming
Posted by wyoroy on Thursday, April 19, 2007 7:32 PM

My plan is to finsih the hull shaping this weekend.  I will not be able to do much the month of May.  My inlaws from Germany are visiting for the whole month.  I will just have to waite and see how my free time goes.

Roy

Roy (Capt. Wyoroy FAAGB/USNFAWGB)

John 3:16

  • Member since
    June, 2005
  • From: Walworth, NY
Posted by Powder Monkey on Thursday, April 19, 2007 11:01 PM
I almost have the hull shaping done. Just a little more sanding and the step along the rail. Do both of you guys have Chuck Passaro's instructions? They are a big help.
  • Member since
    November, 2005
  • From: Madison, Mississippi
Posted by Donnie on Friday, April 20, 2007 12:07 AM

I must sadly say that for now, I must view this build as a spectator instead of a participant. It may be a few months before I can get into this. I do know about Chucks Practicum. I have downloaded it already a while back. 

I have been feverishly working on that Sultana trying to get it finished. I have been working on the ships boat. Enough of the Sultana. I am here to help you guys if you need it until I can join in.

Donnie 

In Progress: OcCre's Santisima Trindad Finished Builds: Linbergs "Jolly Roger" aka La Flore Mantua's Cannone Da Costa Americano linberg's "Cptn Kidd" aka Wappen Von Hamburg Model Shipways 1767 Sultana Midwest Boothbay Lobsterboat (R/C)

  • Member since
    August, 2006
  • From: The Great State of Wyoming
Posted by wyoroy on Friday, April 20, 2007 7:34 AM

I have also downloaded chuck's instructions.  Great set of instructions, does alot for the building.

Roy

Roy (Capt. Wyoroy FAAGB/USNFAWGB)

John 3:16

  • Member since
    November, 2005
  • From: Madison, Mississippi
Posted by Donnie on Friday, April 20, 2007 9:18 PM

I tried doing an extensive search on the internet and there is nothing that I can find on the Phantom. Has anyone gotten any better luck with finding documentation or any photographs of old pictures or something?

Donnie 

In Progress: OcCre's Santisima Trindad Finished Builds: Linbergs "Jolly Roger" aka La Flore Mantua's Cannone Da Costa Americano linberg's "Cptn Kidd" aka Wappen Von Hamburg Model Shipways 1767 Sultana Midwest Boothbay Lobsterboat (R/C)

  • Member since
    August, 2006
  • From: The Great State of Wyoming
Posted by wyoroy on Friday, April 20, 2007 9:38 PM

i have yet to even search for any information on the Phantom.

Roy

Roy (Capt. Wyoroy FAAGB/USNFAWGB)

John 3:16

  • Member since
    August, 2006
  • From: The Great State of Wyoming
Posted by wyoroy on Friday, April 20, 2007 11:31 PM

Donnie,

Checked out your Sultana link and I must say very impressive work. Thumbs Up [tup] The wood stripper, did you make that and what does it do?  Also the wooden framework you made that was over the hull of the ship, what is it's purpose?

Roy

Roy (Capt. Wyoroy FAAGB/USNFAWGB)

John 3:16

  • Member since
    November, 2005
  • From: Madison, Mississippi
Posted by Donnie on Saturday, April 21, 2007 9:14 AM

Oh my -

I guess I forgot that the entire contents of that photo album can be seen !Shock [:O]

OK, that wood stripper, yep, it is a wood stripper and I designed and I made that. I wanted to be able to take a sheet of wood, let say 1/32" thick or whatever and be able to strip any size planking or decking boards I choose. I used this tool to make my decking boards with. I just lay the stripper up against the sheet of wood and pull the stripper down the side of wood and out comes a perfectly wide strip of decking. You can actually buy one of those via Micro-Mark. I think the site is www.micromark.com. 

The tool is made out of Poplar that I got from Lowes. I have a table saw that I cut the tiny pieces from. I secured a Exacto blade that can be adjusted too. You are welcome to use the design. I wish that I had my wood shop setup or I would be glad to make you one and ship it to you. 

Ok, the other contraption was a way that I measured the center line of the keel. If you noticed that the boat was upside down and I had no way of figuring if I was carving the keel center line or not. I am sure at the time, all of that measuring was overkill, but for some reason, I must have thought it was important. Again, I had some Poplar square stock laying around and made a trellis if you will. I found some measuring tape that had a sticky backing to it at a local Harbor Freight Tools store. This way, I could make my own measuring stick. 

I guess I was doing all this measuring becuase I did not want to have to start all over again. After spending a whole month on carving the hull, I did not want to make a major mistake and have to reorder another hull. As a matter of fact, I did make some mistakes on carving the hull and had to use wood filler to some extent. I have found that it is an "art" dealing with wood. I was so used to plastic before the wood. It seemed so convienent at that time to just snap the plastic part from the sprue and glue on. The mast, yards and all were made for you. As a matter of fact, it is really interesting the amount of work involved in making a plastic kit. I am surprised that they can cost so little. I found that having a pair of Dividers came in very handy. If you do not have one, you need to buy one of these center measuring rulers. I bought mine at a local Hobby Lobby, INC stores. One of these can be bought at Micro Mark as well.

http://www.dejaviews.com/deja2/product1.php?i=CR-12 

here is a link to a plastic Wappen von Hamburg by Lindberg Models that I built before I made that Sultana.

/forums/573180/ShowPost.aspx 

In Progress: OcCre's Santisima Trindad Finished Builds: Linbergs "Jolly Roger" aka La Flore Mantua's Cannone Da Costa Americano linberg's "Cptn Kidd" aka Wappen Von Hamburg Model Shipways 1767 Sultana Midwest Boothbay Lobsterboat (R/C)

  • Member since
    May, 2003
  • From: Greenville, NC
Posted by jtilley on Saturday, April 21, 2007 10:49 AM

The Phantom is a beautiful little ship and a fine model subject.  I built one from a Model Shipways kit a few years ago.  At that time MS was selling a version of it with a cast resin hull; frankly one reason I bought it was curiosity about how well that medium would work for a sailing ship.  Verdict:  they made some goofs (I don't understand why the planking seams on the deck are indicated and those of the external hull planking aren't, and the designer missed the "step" at the base of the bulwarks, and he forgot that the little cockpit in front of the steering wheel is supposed to be recessed a couple of feet below the surrounding deck), but the basic concept is sound.  Apparently the kit didn't sell well in that format though.  MS has now reverted to the machine-carved wood hull - just about like the version of the kit that was originally released back in the 1960s (but with Britannia metal castings this time, rather than the old lead alloy ones).

I probably won't be able to help much with this group project (though everything from the deck up on the resin-hull version is essentially identical), but if anybody's interested here are some photos of the finished product:  http://www.hmsvictoryscalemodels.be/JohnTilleyPhantom/index.html

Regarding references - I don't think anybody has turned up any photos of the Phantom herself.  The kit plans are by George Campbell, one of the very best, and contain just about everything you'll need to build a nice model.  If you want to learn about American pilot schooners in general, here's a link to a book that's an excellent starting point:  http://www.woodenboatstore.com/prodinfo.asp?number=325-122

It contains a contemporary painting of the Phantom and some really beautiful photographs of similar vessels.  An expensive book but a beautiful, useful, and informative one.  Highly recommended.

Another good source, though much older, is Howard I. Chapelle's American Sailing Craft.  I contains quite a bit of information on pilot schooners.  Chapelle, for the benefit of anybody who's new to the hobby, was one of the great historians of American naval architecture; he almost single-handedly created that field as a subject of scholarly study.  That particular book, I believe, is out of print, but used copies are fairly easy to find on the web.  Also highly recommended.

I have one significant quibble with the kit.  A pilot schooner can't function without at least one small boat (in which one of the apprentices rows the pilot himself to and from the big ships he's piloting).  For some odd reason the boats carried on board pilot schooners seem to have been called "canoes," though they didn't look like the canoe shape we usually think of.  The kit doesn't contain one, and the plans don't mention it.  I didn't bother adding one to my model, mainly because stowing it on the deck would mess up the lovely silhouette of the ship herself.  But an authentic model of a pilot schooner really needs a boat.

Good luck.  She makes a beautiful model.

Youth, talent, hard work, and enthusiasm are no match for old age and treachery.

  • Member since
    August, 2006
  • From: The Great State of Wyoming
Posted by wyoroy on Saturday, April 21, 2007 11:10 AM

Thanks for the information.  I have checked out the web link, very impressive. I greatly appreciate any help that you can lend to me.  With this being my first real wooden ship the help form you and Donnie will be helpful.

Roy

Roy (Capt. Wyoroy FAAGB/USNFAWGB)

John 3:16

  • Member since
    April, 2007
  • From: Aurora, IL
Posted by hardingb on Wednesday, April 25, 2007 1:46 PM

Hi all. I would like to join your group build. I just received my Phantom about a week and a half ago and am using Chuck's practicum. Last night I just started copper plating the hull. It's pretty slow going. I worked for a couple hours during the Cubs game last night and barely made a dent.

I've been at a couple other forums, and actually just found jtilley's same comments about the shortcomings of the old kit right before I found out about this site. I'm considering correcting the cabin depth oversight when I get there.

 This is my second wooden ship model. My first was Midwest's Muscongus Bay Lobster Smack.

 Looking forward to being part of the group!

Current build: Model Shipways' Phantom Previous build: Midwest's Muscongus Bay Lobster Smack
  • Member since
    August, 2006
  • From: The Great State of Wyoming
Posted by wyoroy on Wednesday, April 25, 2007 2:56 PM

Sign - Welcome [#welcome] to our small but noble build!  I have not even finished shaping my hull.  I have not had a lot of time to spend with it (the ship).  The whole month of May will be a bust for me.  My father-in-law from Germany will be here on April 30th till the end of May, which means almost no time to work on it.  I was hoping to get it done in 6 months to take advantage of Model Expos 6 month free kit  deal, but alas that will not happen. 

Again Sign - Welcome [#welcome] to our group build Ben.

Roy

Roy (Capt. Wyoroy FAAGB/USNFAWGB)

John 3:16

  • Member since
    November, 2005
  • From: Madison, Mississippi
Posted by Donnie on Wednesday, April 25, 2007 10:02 PM

Welcome to the Phantom Group Build hardingb.  Grab the Phantom Group Build logo and put it in your signature.

My wife has relatives that lives in Aurora, IL.

 

Donnie 

In Progress: OcCre's Santisima Trindad Finished Builds: Linbergs "Jolly Roger" aka La Flore Mantua's Cannone Da Costa Americano linberg's "Cptn Kidd" aka Wappen Von Hamburg Model Shipways 1767 Sultana Midwest Boothbay Lobsterboat (R/C)

  • Member since
    November, 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Sunday, April 29, 2007 2:32 PM


Thanks JTilley for the detailed info in the Phantom discussion.  I have moved to the build group with my follow-up question to the rudder issue.  I was spinning my wheels on this one, and it shouldn't have been this hard, but the I am finding the instructions are lacking and they are not for "beginners."  Whoever wrote the content assumes many things, and for beginners, you can't ***-u-me anything. 

But now, I am in the process of tracing the rudder from the "Arrangement and Lines" sheet of the plans, and should have it completed this weekend.

Thanks for the help, and I will be sure to stay tuned to the forum for more of your insight and tips on building these models.  I spent a little time looking at your photos, and I can only hope to be that skilled at the detail.

Lew.

  • Member since
    April, 2007
  • From: Aurora, IL
Posted by hardingb on Monday, April 30, 2007 7:57 AM
 Lew wrote:

I am finding the instructions are lacking and they are not for "beginners."  Whoever wrote the content assumes many things, and for beginners, you can't ***-u-me anything. 

Lew,

Have you seen Chuck Passaro's practicum for the Phantom? It is freely available on Model-expo, and also on many of the forums, and is written to supplement (and in some cases, replace) the lacking kit instructions.

 When I made the rudder, I placed a piece of lightweight paper over the plans and traced the shape of the rudder. Then I cut out the traced shape with a hobby knife and traced the outline onto a stiffer piece of paper so that it would hold it's shape while working with it. The new outline can be verified against the plans to make sure it's accurate. Then I used the heavier-weight paper to trace and cut out the shape from the wood. Again, verify against the plan. Most importantly, check that it will actually fit on your hull, since it's possible that your hull is not exactly the same as the plans, you could actually do this with the paper shape first, before cutting the wood. The rudder will need to be tapered as shown in the photo in the kit instructions.

Current build: Model Shipways' Phantom Previous build: Midwest's Muscongus Bay Lobster Smack
  • Member since
    April, 2007
  • From: Aurora, IL
Posted by hardingb on Monday, April 30, 2007 8:29 AM

Thought I'd post an update...

Made significant progress on hull plating yesterday. I'm just a few plates away from finishing the starboard side, and about half-way done with the port. Just a couple more evenings, I think. Cubs are playing an evening game tonight, so I'll probably get a couple hours in while that's on. Big Smile [:D]

I'm new to the FineScale forum, is there any way to post progress pictures? I see the "Images" option on the posting screen, but it's looking for a web address. I guess I could post the photos on another forum and just include a link...

I took a closer look at the plans, and the grating in the cockpit IS on them. Had overlooked it before. And of course, jtilley is also correct, Chuck's practicum DOES mention the cockpit floor being lower than the main deck, but doesn't discuss in detail how to do it. Shouldn't be too difficult to figure out, anyway. There are a few options I can see for the cockpit walls, use the kit-supplied brittania coaming and "plank" with manila folder, or toss the brittania pieces and build from scratch. I may wind up doing the latter as my kit-supplied coaming pieces don't match up anyway and would need to be bent out slightly to fit.

Current build: Model Shipways' Phantom Previous build: Midwest's Muscongus Bay Lobster Smack
  • Member since
    August, 2006
  • From: The Great State of Wyoming
Posted by wyoroy on Monday, April 30, 2007 8:38 AM

hardingb,  I would love to see some pics of your progress.  Let me know if this helps you posting your pics. 

Go to this link and try the tutorial. 

/forums/643723/ShowPost.aspx

I and most of the other forum users use the link below.

http://www.photobucket.com/

You will be asked to register first.  After that do upload, click on browse, then select the picture from your picture folder on your PC.  Since you want to use the badge that Donnie created you first right click on the badge and select save picture and save it to a folder on your PC.  From there you can upload it from photobucket.  Try this and let me know if you still need some help.  I'm still pretty new at this also.  It took some time for me to figure it out and upload pictures of my own.  I will try to check my mail and the site regularly.  I almost forgot to add...you want to copy and past the image link from photobucket to your signature line.  You will have three links to pick from, you want the one labeled image.  I hope I have not forgotten anything or confussed you even more.

Good Luck,

Roy 

Roy (Capt. Wyoroy FAAGB/USNFAWGB)

John 3:16

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