War in the Desert - African campaign GB - 12/9/07 to 5/13/08

Jim no probs, it was worth a try and that site is pretty good when it comes to finding kit instructions.

Thanks Jim, Jack, Jonathon & Marc for all your info on paint colors I really appreciate it.  Based on the color chip that Jonathon posted both Tamiya Buff and Gunze Sandy Yellow are both very close matches if a little on the light side for RAL 8020.  However as Rick said, allowing for sun bleaching and given that the color will darken a tad with weathering, I've gone for Gunze H-79 Sandy Yellow.

Cheers

Wow, these greman desert colours really stirring up some confusion.

Darren - I looked at that link you posted and have to agree with others that Tamiya's buff is not anywhere near a good representation of Braun RAL 8020.  At the top of that page the author has stated  the guide was for 1/72 scale vehicles - perhaps that was the reasoning?  Even then, it suggests adding white for scale effect, which makes buff even less desirable. Not familiar with the Gunze H79, but give it a try.

dupes - don't know how you missed it, or maybe I didn't communicate it well enough, but there is indeed several paint manufactures out there that have specifically created products for DAK vehicles.  The bottles are labelled with either or both the RAL number and the german spelling of the colour.  Those companies again are: Testors(ModelMaster), White Ensign Models, Life Color Paints, Xtracolor, Xtracrylix, and Agama.

JMart - thanks for posting that list.  Afrika Braun (brown) '42 - MM 2102 ...this is also known as RAL 8020, the one most likely for Tunisia.

Hermesminiatures - I can appreciate what you have added and the sound reasoning with the war photo.  Only thing is there's no mention of the date of said picture.  If the photo was taken before  March 1942 , then it cannot be RAL 8020 since this colour was introduced after that date. Was there a caption with that photo?

Finally, I agree that the Tamiya swatch I posted is very light.  In fact it looks more like their flesh colour, but this was the only one I found on the net using a quick search.  The two swatches were posted just to illustrate there is a difference between the two. 

Jack 

In case it helps anyone, here is some web sites with paint color/match info and tools (and my apologies if you all have these already bookmarked!):

RLM color standards - http://www.paintassistant.com/rlm.html

HUMBROL ENAMEL CROSS REFERENCE - http://www.fortunecity.com/meltingpot/portland/971/reference/humbrol.htm

Tamiya Paint Charts - http://www.tamiyausa.com/articles/feature.php?article-id=72

Urban's Colour Reference Charts- http://www.ipmsstockholm.org/colorcharts/stuff_eng_colorcharts_testors_map.htm

IPMS Stockholm Color Charts - http://www.ipmsstockholm.org/helpdesk.asp#color_charts

Hi everyone ... as promised here is the colour sample I wanted to make to help out with DAK vehicles, particularly those that asked about Tunisia.  As Rick stated already, the images will tend to vary from my screen to yours, so this can only be taken as an approximation.  I've also presented the colours over panzer grey to see how it changes - mind you my airbrushing was on the heavy handed side.
Firstly, RAL 8020 is the most likely colour for Tunisia.  From what I can see, TAMIYA desert yellow is too dark and would be more appropriate for use as RAL 8000, particularly when the base is panzer grey.  The AGAMA product tends to look a shade of orange, but over the grey base is more acceptable and could be used for RAL 8020.  
I included two samples of RAL 8000 just to see if there was variation between the ModelMaster and WhiteEnsign products.  The latter appears darker, most likely because of it's high gloss finish.

Hope this was of some help.

Jack

Thanks Jack.  All of the colors look a little dark on my monitor set up, but it does give an idea of the differences between Paint suppliers.

Here's one I did earlier this year in Tamiya Desert Yellow acrylic.  It's been weathered to reflect sun exposure & dust.

Is it in the ballpark or outta left field?

Regards,  Rick

Hey Rick, I think that PzIII looks great!!!  The colour looks fine to me.   What kit is it?

jgeratic1 wrote:

Hey Rick, I think that PzIII looks great!!!  The colour looks fine to me.   What kit is it?

Thanks .  It's the Tamiya 1/48 PZIII AusfL kit built OOB.

Regards,  Rick

Thanks Scott.

Regards,  Rick

Cool looking build Rick .  It's the same kit that I'm doing for the GB and I hope mine turns out as nice as yours.

Cheers

Thanks Darren, I'm sure your's will.

Regards,  Rick

Sure has been quiet here lately.

Anyways, only two weeks till kick-off .   Have my kit & pretty much settled on paints.  Just need to find a clear spot on the Bench & I'm good to go.

How's the rest of you guys doing ?

Regards,  Rick

Heh...chomping at the bit!

Still trying to figure out what I could build for the French and Polish badges. Not much in the stash that fits the bill, know what I mean? 

For aircrafts you can get Spitfire Mk IXc flown by Polish Fighter Group attached to 145 RAF Sqdrn. Their aircrafts had markings ZX-1 to ZX-6 (Techmod decals)

For the "Polish wheels" equipment probobly Mike will be able to help you. I will see what I can find. 

Have my kit, also. This tristar kit looks like it will be a lot of fun to build, looking forward to it.

May want to try an aircraft for this, any suggestions on a nice kit? Thanks guys!

Very interesting GB with great wide range of airplanes and armor listed so far....

I would like to take part with Sdkfz 250/3 GREIF, personal command vehicle of General Rommel...It is 1:48 great Tamiya kit

Petr V. wrote:

Very interesting GB with great wide range of airplanes and armor listed so far.... I would like to take part with Sdkfz 250/3 GREIF, personal command vehicle of General Rommel...It is 1:48 great Tamiya kit

That one is definitely on my Christmas list to Santa .  Will watch your build with great interest.

Regards,  Rick

darson wrote:

My kit has arrived, the paint is ready and I've also picked up the Tamiya 1/48 stowage set so I can add some jerry cans and such to a stowage rack I'll build on the back of the Pz III.  No I just have to sit back and wait. Petr good to see you in the build, I'm really looking forward to seeing the half track come together.  I've been following the progress of your superb T-62 on the Modern Armor GB Cheers

Thanks for warm welcome in this GB guys! I hope I will not dissapiont you.... BTW I have found some 10 pictures of that particular Sdkfz 250/3 GREIF, great inspiration to me! Another interesting thing is, how the writing on both sides changed its look during 1941-42....the marking version in the box is dated for cca 20th June 1942 for the battle of Tobruk....My plans are to place it into dio with abandoned Crusaider Mk.II in the outskirts of Tobruk (1:48 from Tamiya)

dupes wrote:

Heh...chomping at the bit! Still trying to figure out what I could build for the French and Polish badges. Not much in the stash that fits the bill, know what I mean?

Hi dupes...

Well, I can open the door for you regarding the French and Poles in Africa, but it would be up to you to do further research.

France had both Vichy and Free French forces.   The only thing I know about the Vichy is they put up very little resistance during the landings of Operation Torch - but not so with the air force which was 'hotly' involved.  I have read that the army was deprived of tanks and was very short of motorised transport, even their cavalry units.  In Morocco, Algeria and to a small extent Tunisia, there could be found fighters, recconaissance, and bomber groups as well as some naval aircraft.  

The Free French had a couple well known units.  Famous for its stubborn defence near Tobruk was a brigade size unit from the 1st Free French Division.  The other was the Free French Fighting Column or 'L' Force under the comand of General Leclerc.  It was a small mixed force of armoured cars, tanks, infantry, anti-tank and anti-aircraft guns.  Regarding aircraft, I came across a unit named 'Alsace' which was equipped with Hurricanes and was actively involved over the desert in North Africa.

For the Poles, other than the Spitfire that was mentioned, there is the Carpathian Brigade.  The men that made up this group had fled to the Middle East and the British provided them clothing, equipment, and weapons.  Try this link:

http://www.kki.pl/piojar/brygad/brygad/tobruk/tobruk_e.html

Jack

Like everyone else here, i too am patiently awaiting the start. I still need to go and start picking up needed supplies and paints and such. Also, i've got a good idea how this will turn out. Strangely enough, i'm still debating exactly where the demarkation line is going to be. After looking at different samples, not sure how it will go yet. But i'll figure it out!

Just 2 more weeks....

I'm not sure I'm following Roger, are you talking about the demarcation line between upper and lower camo?  If you are doing a Bf109E-4/7 Trop with the blotchy green RLM 78/79/80 camo, check out this pic, it gives a good (color) shot of the scheme and demarcation line.

http://www.ww2incolor.com/gallery/german-luftwaffe/abg

Cheers

jgeratic1 wrote:

dupes wrote: Heh...chomping at the bit! Still trying to figure out what I could build for the French and Polish badges. Not much in the stash that fits the bill, know what I mean?  Hi dupes... Well, I can open the door for you regarding the French and Poles in Africa, but it would be up to you to do further research. France had both Vichy and Free French forces.   The only thing I know about the Vichy is they put up very little resistance during the landings of Operation Torch - but not so with the air force which was 'hotly' involved.  I have read that the army was deprived of tanks and was very short of motorised transport, even their cavalry units.  In Morocco, Algeria and to a small extent Tunisia, there could be found fighters, recconaissance, and bomber groups as well as some naval aircraft.   The Free French had a couple well known units.  Famous for its stubborn defence near Tobruk was a brigade size unit from the 1st Free French Division.  The other was the Free French Fighting Column or 'L' Force under the comand of General Leclerc.  It was a small mixed force of armoured cars, tanks, infantry, anti-tank and anti-aircraft guns.  Regarding aircraft, I came across a unit named 'Alsace' which was equipped with Hurricanes and was actively involved over the desert in North Africa. For the Poles, other than the Spitfire that was mentioned, there is the Carpathian Brigade.  The men that made up this group had fled to the Middle East and the British provided them clothing, equipment, and weapons.  Try this link: http://www.kki.pl/piojar/brygad/brygad/tobruk/tobruk_e.html Jack

As far as I know Polish Government in London paid for the equipment supplied to Polish Army on the West.  

I just check out a couple of the online stores for the release date of the Tamiya Fieseler Fi.156C Storch and was shocked to see pre-order prices of between $USD45 & $USD48 with a rec retail price of $USD60

I'll see what the real prices are like once the kit is released, but I'm not that desperate for a Storch that I will pay that sort of dough for it

darson wrote:

I'm not sure I'm following Roger, are you talking about the demarcation line between upper and lower camo?  If you are doing a Bf109E-4/7 Trop with the blotchy green RLM 78/79/80 camo, check out this pic, it gives a good (color) shot of the scheme and demarcation line. http://www.ww2incolor.com/gallery/german-luftwaffe/abg Cheers

Well not really like that. I haven't even attempted the mottle yet. But i did have something a little different in mind-

If you remember maybe a month or two back, Eric (Manstein) posted a 109 in the desert beige. I thought it looked really good, myself. But in the pages of references he posted (and a little more research online) i had seen similiar aircraft where the demarkation line is about mid fuselage. Kinda made me think of the navy 3 tone scheme, but with different colors.

Basically, i'm trying to decide if i'm going to do this:

or this:

Roger, personally I prefer the high demarcation with the RLM76 on the sides.  Seems to give a little more visual interest to the model.  But both are correct, depending on the aircraft being modeled.

Regards,  Rick

rjkplasticmod wrote:

Roger, personally I prefer the high demarcation with the RLM76 on the sides.  Seems to give a little more visual interest to the model.  But both are correct, depending on the aircraft being modeled. Regards,  Rick