Sd Kfz 251/21 Ausf D Alemanha1943 1:35

Maintain a certain air of a philosopher is not a disease.

This idea of ​​"philosophizing" came when I came across multiple letters of intent written by certain tenants here, just because I said I like making kites own way without plagiarizing.

I'm not furious with anyone!

Good to know that here is good prose writers and very sociable gentleman.

A.Alexandre

Oh yeah, philosophy! Without it you don't even know what you are building.Like you said yourself - there's no 100% accuracy. That's a philosophical statement. If so, then how accurate do you want to be? Entirely up to you, but you need a system. Our friends here already named a few systems, like "historically accurate" or "artwork". In my opinion thinking is a very important part of this hobby, and worth talking about, too. Hope we can talk about it without getting angry at one another. Good luck with your projects and have a nice day

Paweł

There is no good that lasts, no evil lasts forever

It's worth a lot to me that this foum, many modelers have turned to philosophers.

I note here that watch the real thesis of philosophy!

alexander47

I'm sorry but I have not read all the testimonials on this post, because it is hard for me to understand English and some prose seem edicts of the law, with clauses specialty.

Anyway, taking cons, I agree with the pros who have all reason.

 The advice given here is meant to help you, all the advice here is intended to help you even though it might not sound that way.

 Translations can often give a false sense of intent and can promote hostility when only trying to help.

That's a classic example of how wars can start.

 Not too sure of other languages; but with english, sometimes just stating a fact might sound disrespectful when actually, it was only intended as helpful advice.

I'm sorry but I have not read all the testimonials on this post, because it is hard for me to understand English and some prose seem edicts of the law, with clauses specialty.

Anyway, taking cons, I agree with the pros who have all reason.

T26E4

OK: but the 2cm Drilling variant, the SdKfz 251/21 was produced in August 1944.  You say it's an SdKfz 251/21, German 1943.  I'm saying the 251/21 did not exist in 1943.  It's your model -- title it what you want.

And you still want to make sure the interior is the same paint as the exterior.  Straighten out the antenna.  German antennae were hollow rods -- not a flexible whip antenna like the US/UK antennae.  Your MG42 is mounted incorrectly -- the swing mount attached to the rear area of the MG barrel housing, not the front.  The cross decals have very bad silvering too.  Good luck w/your project.

I think all was ok until this post. Too much negative in at one time without postives. Keep in mind folks, if you are gonna name off a bunch of errors, thats fine, but try and add some positives to go with them.

wow....this is the first time i sat down to read the forums here since joining,and its been quite the learning adventure.i learned about colors,accuracy,and when i should keep my mouth shut.....only problem is...my brain tells my grubby lil fingers to type,not speak....

i do want to say,the very last model i built was of a car i built and drove in 1980-81,a division called "Hobby Stocks",i was good at racing and was rookie of the year in 80,held some records,was the only driver in 3 divisions to have a total clean sweep,setting a track record,fast time award of course,won the dash ,my heat race and the A main,and did it on my 18th birthday!

then after i was injured in 1995,i decided i would build a scale model of that race car,i had to use a 1967 GTO model in 1/24th scale,to create a 1966 pontiac tempest so i had some scratch building to do including scratch building a roll cage based on the real one from the car (im 51 now and still remember the details of the cage), i painted it just as the car was in 1981,and used an Alps dry ink printer to make my own decals,exactly the way i hand painted them in 1980.

i was proud of the finished model ( i still have it) and shared pics of it on a website way back in 1997-98,the result?

it and i,were resoundingly BASHED !..the main point of contention was the fact the real car was beat up ( i posted pics of the model and the real thing)in the real pic,and didnt have any body damage on the model,

1-i had/have no idea of how to damage the body,

2- the day i built it it had NO dents not even any scratches on the paint!! when i pointed this fact out..i was again chastised about not showing before and after pics unless they match!!!

after the last post to me about it,,i left and never went back to the forum.

the point to this long winded blarney post...though true...you need to be cautious of what you say about anothers work,even the slightest bit of "advice" can come across as a "nasty comment" even though its not meant to be.and can hurt feelings.and if you are the recipiant of the comments..remember people are trying to help or encourage you to be more accurate ,and to be a better modeler,even if it comes across as rude and hurtfull...most of the time its meant to help.....

yes guys i realise some do comment to hurt...learn to see those for what they are..and ignore them...

now if anyone critisizes me on this post......ill go cry in my foxhole........thank s for reading..though ill bet most of you stopped reading long ago...

Dave

pyrman64

garzonh

We need a blocking or flag button in the forums my friend doog.

And who should we block/flag?  

• T26E4....who felt the need to comment when none was asked for?
• Or...on Alexander47 who defended himself from a self-appointed experten?
• Or...the doog who decided to "pile on"?
• Or...how `bout garzonh who suggested blocking/flagging someone?

Geez people......chillax....this is a freaking hobby......if you don't like what some one else built, that's fine....it's your opinion.......take your granny's advice "it you got nothing nice to say, don't say anything!"

pyrman64

garzonh

We need a blocking or flag button in the forums my friend doog.

And who should we block/flag?  

• T26E4....who felt the need to comment when none was asked for?
• Or...on Alexander47 who defended himself from a self-appointed experten?
• Or...the doog who decided to "pile on"?
• Or...how `bout garzonh who suggested blocking/flagging someone?

Geez people......chillax....this is a freaking hobby......if you don't like what some one else built, that's fine....it's your opinion.......take your granny's advice "it you got nothing nice to say, don't say anything!"

In which case why post pics of your work. Some people are interested in historical accuracy, others are not. And that's fine. But we don't know who is who until they say.

I recall one modeller posting a pic of an early war Me 109 with a Kubelwagen next to it painted in DY. Some one pointed out that DY wasn't in use at the start of the war; The builder could have simply said thank you and he would remember that for next time. But instead he went and built another Kubel and painted in Grey, and he was much appreciative of it.

I am at the stage where I don't comment on peoples builds for fear of being slatted as a rivet counter, unless I know that the person wants those sorts of comments.

And I would rather people comment on my builds both good and bad, whether it be on the build or the accuracy.

We seem to have people at two extremes here. Those who think a build should be 100% accurate no matter what and those who slate anyone for bringing up errors.

But I think most of us, me included, are in the middle. We want to be accurate as possible within reason. And for that we often need help and advice.

We all know about another modeller who reacts to comments on his builds, and many of us now don't post on his work.

Maybe we should all put disclaimers at the end of our build posts.

They can be either.

Keep your stupid opinions to yourself.

Or

All comments welcome and appreciated.

garzonh

We need a blocking or flag button in the forums my friend doog.

And who should we block/flag?  

• T26E4....who felt the need to comment when none was asked for?
• Or...on Alexander47 who defended himself from a self-appointed experten?
• Or...the doog who decided to "pile on"?
• Or...how `bout garzonh who suggested blocking/flagging someone?

Geez people......chillax....this is a freaking hobby......if you don't like what some one else built, that's fine....it's your opinion.......take your granny's advice "it you got nothing nice to say, don't say anything!"

We need a blocking or flag button in the forums my friend doog.

Private message sent, Alexander.

alexander47

What is the reasoning in saying that Roy is right? Is it because the forum has several lawyers

(A STUBBORN never alone)

Historical FACT is the reason Roy is right.  I think you are being very defensive to someone EXTREMELY knowledgeable and who is trying to help you.  I understand that English is not your native language and some meaning is getting lost in translation here, but listen to what Roy and the others are saying about the history and colors of the SdKfz 251/21.  They are correct.

Depends on which bit your talking about. The colour of the date of the /21.

Ok there are a lot of people to agree with Roy?!

Does Roy have the same reason?

What is the reasoning in saying that Roy is right? Is it because the forum has several lawyers

(A STUBBORN never alone)

As you have realized the translation from Portuguese to English is "google".

Be fool or child are two attitudes that we can not even want to get out of them!

When you need help here I'll be knocking on the door, Thanks but no need now.

A.Alexandre

While most  of us like to share our work with fellow modelers who can appreciate them, we all ultimately build for our own enjoyment. To count or not to count (rivets) is completely up to the individual. Personally, I would rather see a well built and finished model that's maybe not wholly accurate than the other way around. Having said that, if you choose to put your work out there and welcome comments and critiques, then you need a tough enough skin to not let any such comments bother you. Take it good faith that a fellow modeler is offering friendly advice, not criticizing your choices. Just my two cents....

I think this is a nice, well done build. I would recommend adding at least a pin wash to make some of that nice detail pop but again, just my two cents....Keep up the good work and please keep sharing.

nice clean build. roy is right about the machine gun mount and the interior color. i did not know about the german antenna but i use wire for all mine so they don't bend, may lean sometimes but not bend.

my modeling tends toward the artistic ( i won't paint the wood on tools and tend to leave the metal parts unpainted as well just to add some color).  camo patterns may be freehand but representative, panzer colors will vary.  MMA, tamiya and polyscale have pz dark yellow, green, and red brown and all are slightly different and weathering will change them too. i have seen pics of pz gray and NATO camo vehicles so covered in dust they look sand.

having said that there are still basic guidelines that should be followed: panzer interior and exterior colors on open top vehilces are the same. 1942 vehicles are never dark yellow. us vehicles were not green. exceptions supported by photographs are valid.

sometimes words in a forum as in email, cannot convey the emotions behind them. when you "enter the garden" as you have by posting on the forum, it is assumed by everyone here you are looking for constructive criticism. i post a lot and  most of my builds are decent, a few are so so but, becausee of folks like roy, my builds get better and push me to try new things. without the suggestion, which initially blew up, by another person i would have not tried oil washes and filters. now i just finished a weathered truck with ONLY washes and it turned out quite nicely.

just my verbose self sticking my nose in.

"then you must realize that only accept "help" those who visit or who walks into kindergarten."

I'm not sure what you're trying to say.  Perhaps you're calling me foolish or stupid for helping visitors to this site or little children.  I guess you're saying that you don't need help.  That's fine.  

I be offended? not really, just expressed my objective in modeling, all models built for me has something personal, extra kit. The date 1943 came from a reading of a statement from a person who saw fnais Hanover in 1943 a prototype? drilling strolling near the Hanomag factory.

The start of series production that is pointed to August 1944?

Footnote: The Roy simply want to help? then you must realize that only accept "help" those who visit or who walks into kindergarten.

A.Alexandre

For the attention of purists

important to know

The engine is extra kit, built entirely by me with several pieces adapted

alexander: I made a minor suggestion to you and shared some knowledge about painting procedures of later war German vehicles.  Then you get offended -- like I was attacking you.  Like I said earlier, it's your model.  Do with it what you want.  

FSM is pretty good for constructive and helpful feedback.  From the 1983 movie "Airplane" Don't want no help?  Don't get no help.

Alex, I completely agree, and I am sure Roy would as well. We can only strive to do our best. But there's a difference between being as accurate as you can, barring one to many rivets or a certain colour not being in exactly the right place, and placing a vehicle in a time when it did not exist.

Roy is simply trying to help.

Okay, but 100% historically reproduced to scale 1:35, still not seen any, even Roy, have not seen anything from anyone to do this in practice. 100% historical in my opinion this is only a theoretical utopian, that is in the minds of those who want to believe.

(I'm here just to be here)

Not to add more salt to the wound....but...

NOTHING can be built 100% historically correct. That would mean that the model, would have to have every single scratch, component, color, exactly as a vehicle used in the war theater.

Every model built since the world started, try to represent a real one and there is always an "artist" freedom, so not even the 1st place World Champion of scale modeling author can create a 100% historically accurate vehicle.

Alexandre, here we have one of the major dilemma's in modelling. Some people are very interested in historical accuracy. They will do what ever they can to get a model as accurate as possible. And to do this, they often rely on the advice of others who may know more about the particular subject. The problem is, those who offer that advice are often ridiculed as rivet counters.

At the other end of the scale, some simply like to build and are not bothered at how accurate it is. On occasion, this people will be ridiculed by those that believe that every kit should be 100% historically accurate.

The problem is, for those who are happy to offer any advice in a helpful manner don't know what reception they will receive.

My own view is this. I strive to be as accurate as possible, and I will welcome any comments, advice or suggestion's. However, if you want to build a 251, paint it pink and put it in the Somme in 1916, then its your plastic, do what you like.

That being said, Roy is 100% correct. The 251/21, and its the /21 that's the important bit, did not enter service until the latter half of 1944.

The inside and out would indeed have been painted the same colour, but of course weathering would have effected the outside more than the inside. And I recall reading one account where a museum stripped a 251 and found something like 9 different shades of DY.

How to want to use al of this is entirely upto you. I hope you will take it in the fashion it is given, with the intent of being helpful and not patronising or arrogant.

aside from that, nice looking build. I am a massive 251 fan and never get enough of them. Which kit is this one.

Very nice, clean cut build.

Maybe I will be able to build one without weathering I always get carried away...