Hey Sergeant, I know this thread is way beyond this point; sorry about that, but I was very happy with the Tamiya XF-62 Olive Drab.

richs26

Here is an example:

according to this reference, X must be used

use (2) examples (a) #2,

http://www.lonesentry.com/panzer/jeep-markings.html

9^-X-149S-10

Check the engineer jeep in the photos.

 

So, the bumper code on my Jeep will look like this: 9Δ - X on the left side of the front bumper and 149S - 10 on the right side with a 4” Star in the middle of the bumper. The back bumperettes will have 9Δ on first row with X on the second row of the left side.

The right side bumperette will have 149S on the first row and 10 on the second row. No Star will be used on the back of the Jeep since the gas can covers that location. Same with the left side quarter panel, no Star will be used since the antenna bracket covers the location.

Update: Change of plan, the correct letter size for bumper codes is too large for the bumperettes. So according to AR850-5 no bumper codes will be used in the back of Jeep, only on the front bumper. This is my understanding of the regulations. Plus I may still want to add a rack to the back which could obscure any bumper codes.

Harold

Here is an example:

according to this reference, X must be used

use (2) examples (a) #2,

http://www.lonesentry.com/panzer/jeep-markings.html

9^-X-149S-10

Check the engineer jeep in the photos.

stikpusher

Well, I found the information on what radios would be carried by a Sherman...

 

http://www.theshermantank.com/sherman/the-m4-sherman-tanks-radio-setup/

 

The reason I believe is when a command tank was knocked out there would be no way to communicate beyond the company level and range of FM radio was limited. A signal company was task with replacing radio equipment during operations or repairing the equipment in the field. That was my job in the Army, I had to keep the net functioning at the battalion level and some times made field repairs by replacing individual modules within company radios to keep them working.

During the Vietnam War era the U.S. Army used Collins Radio equipment and it was built for fast repair. Every radio was constructed in modular form, so if you knew what to look for a set could be repaired in the field by replacing a damaged module. Today we call that ‘plug-n-play’.

Harold

Well, I found the information on what radios would be carried by a Sherman...

http://www.theshermantank.com/sherman/the-m4-sherman-tanks-radio-setup/

I couldn’t tell you what radio type that the tanks were equipped with for certain. And I was never a tanker myself. But I did serve in mech infantry tracks, and for a portion of that time as a platoon leader’s driver. In that case, the basic tracks were equipped with a single radio mount, kept on the platoon net freq. The platoon leaders track was equipped with two, one to be kept on the platoon net freq, and one on the company net freq. The company CO track IIRC, would also have two radios, one at the company freq, and one to communicate with battalion. And of course there are also designated Command radio vehicles that may have more radios mounted. Let’s say an operations vehicle with four radios- one on battalion command net, plus each of the company nets. But there is going to be some sort of vehicle linking the different net types. Going back to my LRS time, because we used both HF and FM nets, our commo vehicles carried both radio types in the shelters. I’m sure that practice had to start somewhere, sometime, based upon the need.

stikpusher

 

 

Sergeant

 

 

richs26

After looking at the vehicle markings site, I would mark the bumper as 9triangle-149S-unit vehicle number (made up).

 

 

 

 

richs26, I’ve read AR850-5 several times and can not decide if the bumper code on my Jeep should be:

 

9Δ - 149S - X - 10  or  9Δ - 149 - S - 10

Could you look at your reference and let me know how you think the second and third groups should look?

Thank you,

Harold

 

 

 

 

How does the signal unit break down? TO&E wise? The X suffix is usually for sub units of division HQ that are not a separate company. When I was in LRS our bumper codes were for Divison HQ, who was our higher HQ: 40X  **** LRS ____

Division Band also used the 40X prefix. 

My educated guess says 9^ 149S on the left side... the right side, gonna have to work on that...

 

On another subject all the reading about SCR-506, 507, 508, 509 and 510 radios for BDelph got me thinking the BC-1306 I used in my Jeep is an AM radio. However, the 149 Armored Signal Company was part of the 9th Armored Division. Did all of the Sherman tanks in that Division have FM or AM radios? If they were FM (SCR-508) then how would the 149 Armored Signal Company Jeep/radio operator communicate with those tanks on the Road to Bastogne?

One possibility; when I was in the Army the Jeep I was assigned had both AM and FM radios. They were two completely different sets using a common antenna with high and low bypass filters. The M109‘s did not have radios, but used field telephone for fire control. The radio was used to communicate with FO, HQ and other Batteries. Maybe my Jeep/radio operator from the 149th had two radios? Or maybe they simply stopped the tanks and talked to the crew? The radio in that Jeep was then used to communicate with HQ?

Harold

Sergeant

 

 

richs26

After looking at the vehicle markings site, I would mark the bumper as 9triangle-149S-unit vehicle number (made up).

 

 

 

 

richs26, I’ve read AR850-5 several times and can not decide if the bumper code on my Jeep should be:

 

9Δ - 149S - X - 10  or  9Δ - 149 - S - 10

Could you look at your reference and let me know how you think the second and third groups should look?

Thank you,

Harold

 

How does the signal unit break down? TO&E wise? The X suffix is usually for sub units of division HQ that are not a separate company. When I was in LRS our bumper codes were for Divison HQ, who was our higher HQ: 40X  **** LRS ____

Division Band also used the 40X prefix. 

My educated guess says 9^ 149S on the left side... the right side, gonna have to work on that...

James, I’m having very good results with Archer Fine Transfers. Just clarifying some marking details like bumper code and placement of national symbols.

Harold

Cut round the transfer and put in place and secure with some masking tape that will hold it then rub on applying some pressure.

For this I used a cocktail stick which I had blunted and rounded the end.

The above was done directly onto the rough coating of zimmeritt and once the paper was removed I used a cotton bud to press the transfer into the hollows. On a flat surface still use a cotton bud (dry to go over the transfer to make sure that it is firmly in place.

The finished thing...

Just looks like it has been painted on and no need for all the gloss coat, set solution, soft solution, matt coat. Rub on and go!

richs26

After looking at the vehicle markings site, I would mark the bumper as 9triangle-149S-unit vehicle number (made up).

 

9Δ - 149S - X - 10  or  9Δ - 149 - S - 10

Could you look at your reference and let me know how you think the second and third groups should look?

stikpusher

You’ll be ok. I might suggest some practice on a test mule to get the feel for them before you work on the Jeep.

 

You’ll be ok. I might suggest some practice on a test mule to get the feel for them before you work on the Jeep.

Sergeant

 

 

snapdragonxxx

Vallejo is my primary go to paint at is chipset accurate and is a very high quality paint with a strong pigment which means that you don't need to use much to get the right depth.

I only use other brands when I have to and when I need colours that are not in the Vallejo range. The only exclusion to this is AK's Xtreme Metal range which beats Alclad hands down and won't melt your model! That and Vallejo's Metal colour range sits and co-exists side by side on my bench and gives me a huge tonal metal colour variety.

many other brands(mission, AK etc) use scale correctness formulae quoting light reflectability, which according to what a leading ophthalmic surgeon here in the UK says is total BS as the colours we see depend on the rods and cones in our eyes and differ from person to person as well as our subconscious lightning or darkening what we see in order to bring out detail.

Vallejo can always be modulated anyway by the depth of paint you apply although this takes some practice and thinning the paint a little.

 

I love how the Jeep has turned out with the Vallejo OD and the dry transfers directly on to that paint will look great. No varnishes needed!

 

 

James

 

 

 

 

James, Carlos, Pawel or any members who are familiar with Archer Transfer decals I need some help. Below is a photograph of the decals that came with my Willys Jeep kit. None of them are directly related to the 9th Armored Division. I have decided to try the dry-transfer type of decals instead of the water-slide type on this project, but I am uncertain about vehicle registration numbers and bumper codes.

 

First of all is the correct registration number series and bumper codes an important detail in a diorama? If so, how do you find the right information? I have been reading this article https://olive-drab.com/od_mvg_markings.php from the Olive-Drab website which leads me to believe this subject is as confusing as the discussion of which olive drab paint or camouflage color is right for a specific time period.

The following numbers are the Archer items I selected, but I’m not sure about either the registration numbers or bumper codes: AR35048W, AR35058W and AR35066.

 

stikpusher

I think the quality of the paintwork is pretty much a case of the engineer battalion having to paint all the vehicles as rapidly as the could. Not to mention the weather conditions and hours of daylight available in NW Europe in the fall. This was applied in field workshops, and looked like that as a result.

 

I think the quality of the paintwork is pretty much a case of the engineer battalion having to paint all the vehicles as rapidly as the could. Not to mention the weather conditions and hours of daylight available in NW Europe in the fall. This was applied in field workshops, and looked like that as a result.

stikpusher

 

 

Sergeant

 

 

stikpusher

Sarge, it looks like most of your questions here have already been answered. As for the particular shade of green applied over the OD along with the black, it is called “Light Green”. It is the same color as Interior Green used on US aircraft cockpits and today goes by the FS# 34151. 

The Army had 12 standard colors (including OD) that were supplied for use on vehicles to better blend with local conditions. In Italy, colors like Sand, Earth Yellow, or Earth Red, as well as White counter shading, were often seen on US Army vehicles. In Nothern Europe, Black was the most commonly seen color. Other colors included Forest Green, Loam, Field Drab, and Earth Brown. Many of these same colors would be incorporated into the 70’s era MERDC camo colors.

 

 

 

 

Carlos, thank you for the information about the light green paint and 12 standard Army colors, I never heard that before. One of my questions was answered accidentally when I went looking for material to represent Sommerfeld matting. Now I know the matting needs to go on before the dust-shields/fenders and other delicate parts so I don’t break something.

 

Harold

 

 

 

 

I have a couple of books by Steve Zaloga on US Armor camouflage and markings. The colors are listed there, along with information on how they are recommended to be used. I’ll try to get more information from the books posted on here later on if you’d like.

 

Sergeant

 

 

stikpusher

Sarge, it looks like most of your questions here have already been answered. As for the particular shade of green applied over the OD along with the black, it is called “Light Green”. It is the same color as Interior Green used on US aircraft cockpits and today goes by the FS# 34151. 

The Army had 12 standard colors (including OD) that were supplied for use on vehicles to better blend with local conditions. In Italy, colors like Sand, Earth Yellow, or Earth Red, as well as White counter shading, were often seen on US Army vehicles. In Nothern Europe, Black was the most commonly seen color. Other colors included Forest Green, Loam, Field Drab, and Earth Brown. Many of these same colors would be incorporated into the 70’s era MERDC camo colors.

 

 

 

 

Carlos, thank you for the information about the light green paint and 12 standard Army colors, I never heard that before. One of my questions was answered accidentally when I went looking for material to represent Sommerfeld matting. Now I know the matting needs to go on before the dust-shields/fenders and other delicate parts so I don’t break something.

 

Harold

 

I have a couple of books by Steve Zaloga on US Armor camouflage and markings. The colors are listed there, along with information on how they are recommended to be used. I’ll try to get more information from the books posted on here later on if you’d like.

Gamera

Oh wow I had no idea about the Sommerfeld matting until now. When I saw it in photos I just assumed it was chicken wire 'liberated' from French farmers... 

 

Harold

stikpusher

Sarge, it looks like most of your questions here have already been answered. As for the particular shade of green applied over the OD along with the black, it is called “Light Green”. It is the same color as Interior Green used on US aircraft cockpits and today goes by the FS# 34151. 

The Army had 12 standard colors (including OD) that were supplied for use on vehicles to better blend with local conditions. In Italy, colors like Sand, Earth Yellow, or Earth Red, as well as White counter shading, were often seen on US Army vehicles. In Nothern Europe, Black was the most commonly seen color. Other colors included Forest Green, Loam, Field Drab, and Earth Brown. Many of these same colors would be incorporated into the 70’s era MERDC camo colors.

 

Harold

WOW, JUST WOW!!!

Is this a clear case of collective knowledge at work or what? Great job, gentlemen!

The finished work is gonna be a stunner, I’ll bet !

Oh wow I had no idea about the Sommerfeld matting until now. When I saw it in photos I just assumed it was chicken wire 'liberated' from French farmers... 

Sarge, it looks like most of your questions here have already been answered. As for the particular shade of green applied over the OD along with the black, it is called “Light Green”. It is the same color as Interior Green used on US aircraft cockpits and today goes by the FS# 34151. 

The Army had 12 standard colors (including OD) that were supplied for use on vehicles to better blend with local conditions. In Italy, colors like Sand, Earth Yellow, or Earth Red, as well as White counter shading, were often seen on US Army vehicles. In Nothern Europe, Black was the most commonly seen color. Other colors included Forest Green, Loam, Field Drab, and Earth Brown. Many of these same colors would be incorporated into the 70’s era MERDC camo colors.

M1GarandFan

Sergeant, I've got that same picture on p.63 of my Squadron Signal, WWII U.S. Sherman Tank in Action book. It purports to show the 9th's 3 color camo with black and a lighter green over the standard O.D. The matting is Sommerfield matting welded to strips on the hull. I've never tried it, but I think using some tule (available at Walmart and sewing and craft stores) would be a decent substitute for the matting. Some of the other guys here on the site may have a better solution to modeling that particular material.

 

Sergeant, I've got that same picture on p.63 of my Squadron Signal, WWII U.S. Sherman Tank in Action book. It purports to show the 9th's 3 color camo with black and a lighter green over the standard O.D. The matting is Sommerfield matting welded to strips on the hull. I've never tried it, but I think using some tule (available at Walmart and sewing and craft stores) would be a decent substitute for the matting. Some of the other guys here on the site may have a better solution to modeling that particular material.

richs26

Both photos show the split loader's hatch (2 sections) so they are both early T-23 turrets with the 76mm, and no muzzle brake with just the thread protector.  The chicken wire is over the paint.  There is also chicken wire over the front glacis.

 

I found this picture of camouflage used by the 9th Armored Division, do you think this is accurate?

Both photos show the split loader's hatch (2 sections) so they are both early T-23 turrets with the 76mm, and no muzzle brake with just the thread protector.  The chicken wire is over the paint.  There is also chicken wire over the front glacis.

stikpusher

Below it is a photo of a 9th Armored Division M4A3 76mm fresh out of the Engineer Camouflage Battalion paint shop. You can see the mods peculiar to the 9th in this photo [second photograph below].

 

1. What colors are used in this camouflage?

2. Is there netting over the camouflage, or is that netting pattern on the side of the hull in the second photograph above part of the camouflage paint?

3. In the photograph above it’s clear the camouflage paint comes down over the dust-shields/fenders. So assembly of my model requires the dust-shields/fenders to be glued on before I prime the hull... Is that correct?

4. The turret in the second photograph looks like a later T-23 with an oval loaders hatch, but the photograph I’m building the diorama to represent (first photograph) has a split loaders hatch and the 76mm cannon, so that’s how we know it’s an early T-23 turret... Is that correct?

Harold

Yes. I understand completely. One of my biggest problems is always the assembly order which never follows the instruction sheet. About the last things I add to my tanks is the tracks, tools and radio antenna. What you're doing is working!

John

M1GarandFan

The Jeep, figure and radio look excellent! Will you be applying the shovel, axe and other tools, or have the doughs stolen all of them? Can't wait to see the finished product.

 

Harold