The above photograph is a closeup of the same set of paint samples less the two samples on the right, that will help show the difference between Vallejo 71.043 and Tamiya XF-62 with a mix of 35% XF-60 Dark Yellow. If you recall Steve Zaloga's article described this Tamiya mix only he referred to Dark Yellow as German Panzer yellow, but as far as I can tell they are the same color. I think Steve had the right idea because the color is very similar to Vallejo's U.S. Olive Drab.

snapdragonxxx

Try Vallejo Model Air 71.043 for the Olive Drab you need. its FS number is FS34087 which I believe is a match for the wartime ground forces OD.

 

James

 

Pawel, I was in the U.S. Army during the Vietnam War and my Radio Shop was in the same building as the Motor Pool. The Master Sergeant I reported too oversaw both operations, so I saw many vehicles every day and the O.D. color was neither as green as QMS#08 or as dark as Humbrol 66. I would have described it as greenish but remember this was in the 70's nearly 30 years after WWII and Vietnam era O.D. was darker than WWII. My point is FS34087 looks a little lighter than what I remember from the Vietnam era.

Hello!

Too green is what I thought, too - but I was a little afraid to write it so, as I didn't want to give you a feeling of me being too picky!

Now you have to be careful about that FS34087 chip, because they really had trouble with it, to the point that the chip was missing from some FS595 books.

Looking for inspirations for this post I have found many WWII era vehicles painted with colours all over the place, some of them looking like froggies or freshly mowed grass, so I'm totally OK with you painting your vehicles any colour you want. But I've also one vehicle painted the colour I like a lot and it's not ver green:

Good luck with your builds and have a nice day

Paweł

Try Vallejo Model Air 71.043 for the Olive Drab you need. its FS number is FS34087 which I believe is a match for the wartime ground forces OD.

James

Gamera

Steve Zaloga had a great article on olive drab but last time I looked for it I couldn't find it online so I'm guessing he wanted it taken down. 

I believe he called for mixing two parts Tamiya US olive drab to one part Tamiya German panzer yellow for a pretty good match. That's off the top of my head though, I do have the article at home and I'll try to remember to look for it. 

 

Its been suggested I decide what looks good to me and go with it because after the weathering and camouflage the O.D. will look different anyway.

Steve Zaloga had a great article on olive drab but last time I looked for it I couldn't find it online so I'm guessing he wanted it taken down. 

I believe he called for mixing two parts Tamiya US olive drab to one part Tamiya German panzer yellow for a pretty good match. That's off the top of my head though, I do have the article at home and I'll try to remember to look for it. 

Lol! I’ve read up a good bit, but would hardly call it actual research. I have a few items of WWII stuff in my collection that is in original OD paint (or at least I hope so). None it looks quite like any model paint ODs that I’ve come across. That being said, I agree with the above on going with what looks best to your eye. I don’t trust computer monitor color chips or any of that stuff. My old favorite WWII OD for US Army vehicle’s starting point was Gunze. But they stopped importing their acrylic line here, and I ran out, so it’s time to use other brands that are “close enough”. My weathering tends to be based upon my personal experiences, so it’s usually lots of dust, dirt, and/or mud. And that alters the OD substantially. I rarely now do a build in “motor pool condition”, with minimal weathering and clean paint.

GAF

My opinion - go with what looks right to you.  By the time you've glossed, weathered, washed, oil pin spotted and beaten with a tire chain (okay, maybe not that last one) then the color will look entirely different anyway! 

I will say the spoon color does look very close to the Olive Green on the chart,  but had someone asked me what color WWII American vehicles were painted, I don't think I would have chosen that one.  Seems too green to me (IMO).

Good luck!

Gary

PS> Oh, and I enjoyed your jeep build.  I've got a couple of 1/48 scale Hasegawa jeeps I've been meaning to assemble, but the color for the engines has been keeping me away.

 

Harold

My opinion - go with what looks right to you.  By the time you've glossed, weathered, washed, oil pin spotted and beaten with a tire chain (okay, maybe not that last one) then the color will look entirely different anyway! 

I will say the spoon color does look very close to the Olive Green on the chart,  but had someone asked me what color WWII American vehicles were painted, I don't think I would have chosen that one.  Seems too green to me (IMO).

Good luck!

Gary

PS> Oh, and I enjoyed your jeep build.  I've got a couple of 1/48 scale Hasegawa jeeps I've been meaning to assemble, but the color for the engines has been keeping me away.

stikpusher

 

 

GAF

"Is this the room for an argument?"  -- Monty Python

Stik> Just for arguments sake, do any of these appear close to a 1944 OD shade?  Vagaries of monitors aside.

 

Gary

 

 

 

 

QMS#8 is the shade that was used by Army Ground Forces, as mentioned above. Model Master recently issued their take on the shade, but I have yet to use it on a build. And to be honest, depending upon what weathering you use, the basic OD will look different afterwards compared to when you first put it on the build. One other point that I alluded to eatlier- a camo scheme. That M4A3 in the photo was in a multi color scheme used by the 9th AD.  Blotches of Black and Light Green (the same color as Interior Green) were sprayed over the basic OD. 2nd and 3rd Armored Divisions had their vehicle’s camouflaged with bands of Black over the OD from the time of Cobra thru the Bulge.

 

Then I mixed 2/3 Tamiya XF-62 Olive Drab with 1/3 XF-5 Flat Green and superimposed the paint sample over the O.D. Color Chart shown below. I believe the paint sample is close enough that I'm ready to try it on a 1/35 scale model and see how it looks. Before I do that, I would like your feedback. What do you think?

I forgot to mention that my paint sample shown above has two coats of Tamiya Gray Liquid Surface Primer under the olive green paint.

Sergeant

I got up early this morning to research ’the right olive drab’ and I have been reading for hours. There is so much debate over this subject it makes my head hurt. I’m going to try Tamiya XF-62 Olive Drab mixed with Tamiya XF-60 Dark Yellow at 25% to 35% for 1/35 scale and see how it looks under different lightIng conditions. Then when my Humbrol 66 arrives I will compare the two sample and see how they look together under the same lighting.

I do agree with Stik, that time period is a major consideration in deciding which O.D. color is right and in this case I am trying to represent WWII ground force vehicles. However, by the time I finish covering them with mud and snow in the diorama ‘the right olive drab’ will probably look different.

Oh and then we have the 9th Armored Division camouflage added to the tank which by the time I’m done may look like something entirely different.

You can’t tell, but I’m smiling... This is crazy! We are the definition of fanatics.

 

Step 2 will be to compare a sample of Humbrol 66 Olive Drab with the Tamiya paint samples under the same lighting and in natural daylight.

Sergeant

 

 

 

Wow, between you and richs26 you guys have really gone deep in Sherman research. Thank you both for the valuable links.

 

Harold

 

Sgt., I consider it the thrill of the chase in finding out "useless and unneeded inormation".

More color info:

https://gluestickssite.wordpress.com/2016/03/03/now-is-this-olive-drab/

https://olive-drab.com/od_mvg_odpaint.php

Sgt., you don't have to worry about the type of loader's hatch as your's is obviously the early split hatch, not the later oval hatch.  The Shaddock site has the oval hatch starting to be manufactured around October 1944, and arriving on the Continent in early 1945.  Documentation is sketchy, but they arrived at this conclusion through photo and film analysis.

http://the.shadock.free.fr/sherman_minutia/turret_types/76mm_turrets.html

stikpusher

Ok, once I get home, I’ll dig out the parts for you. 

Here is a link on all you need to know about Sherman turrets

 

http://www.theshermantank.com/about/sherman-tank-turrets/

 

I have kit bashed a couple Tamiya and Italeri Sherman’s using new ones from Verlinden, Italeri, and Academy, to make different versions.

 

Harold

Ok, once I get home, I’ll dig out the parts for you. 

Here is a link on all you need to know about Sherman turrets

http://www.theshermantank.com/about/sherman-tank-turrets/

I have kit bashed a couple Tamiya and Italeri Sherman’s using new ones from Verlinden, Italeri, and Academy, to make different versions.

stikpusher

I have plenty of Italeri Sherman and Priest sand shields (they are identical) in my spares bin. PM me an address if you want me to send you a set. 

That T23 turret that you posted has the early split ring loaders hatch. The later T23 turret had a smaller oval hatch identical to the type used on the later 75mm turret that the kit has.

 

I have plenty of Italeri Sherman and Priest sand shields (they are identical) in my spares bin. PM me an address if you want me to send you a set. 

That T23 turret that you posted has the early split ring loaders hatch. The later T23 turret had a smaller oval hatch identical to the type used on the later 75mm turret that the kit has.

stikpusher

Yes, the right side fender and sand shield is missing on the tank in the photo. Also you will need a new turret if you’re going to model that exact tank. It has the early split ring loaders hatch on the 76mm gunned T23 turret. The Tamiya kit comes with the late production 75mm gunned M4 turret.

 

Yes, the right side fender and sand shield is missing on the tank in the photo. Also you will need a new turret if you’re going to model that exact tank. It has the early split ring loaders hatch on the 76mm gunned T23 turret. The Tamiya kit comes with the late production 75mm gunned M4 turret.

richs26

Sgt, check your A3 kit to see if it has the sandshields.  Many crews took them off due to accidents, etc.  Do not use the early hull as it has the 57 degree glacis instead of the later 47 degree glacis plate.  Check this, the 9th row of photos down; notice the missing sandshields on tanks that have not been issued yet:

http://the.shadock.free.fr/sherman_minutia/manufacturer/m4a376w/m4a3_76w.html

 

Humbrol 66 is a very dark shade. But not too much darker than basic Tamiya OD. They just lean towards different hues.

I got up early this morning to research ’the right olive drab’ and I have been reading for hours. There is so much debate over this subject it makes my head hurt. I’m going to try Tamiya XF-62 Olive Drab mixed with Tamiya XF-60 Dark Yellow at 25% and 35% for 1/35 scale and see how it looks under different lightIng conditions. Then when my Humbrol 66 arrives I will compare the two sample and see how they look together under the same lighting.

I do agree with Stik, that time period is a major consideration in deciding which O.D. color is right and in this case I am trying to represent WWII ground force vehicles. However, by the time I finish covering them with mud and snow in the diorama ‘the right olive drab’ will probably look different.

Oh and then we have the 9th Armored Division camouflage added to the tank which by the time I’m done may look like something entirely different.

You can’t tell, but I’m smiling... This is crazy! We are the definition of fanatics.

GAF

"Is this the room for an argument?"  -- Monty Python

Stik> Just for arguments sake, do any of these appear close to a 1944 OD shade?  Vagaries of monitors aside.

 

Gary

 

QMS#8 is the shade that was used by Army Ground Forces, as mentioned above. Model Master recently issued their take on the shade, but I have yet to use it on a build. And to be honest, depending upon what weathering you use, the basic OD will look different afterwards compared to when you first put it on the build. One other point that I alluded to eatlier- a camo scheme. That M4A3 in the photo was in a multi color scheme used by the 9th AD.  Blotches of Black and Light Green (the same color as Interior Green) were sprayed over the basic OD. 2nd and 3rd Armored Divisions had their vehicle’s camouflaged with bands of Black over the OD from the time of Cobra thru the Bulge.

Sgt, check your A3 kit to see if it has the sandshields.  Many crews took them off due to accidents, etc.  Do not use the early hull as it has the 57 degree glacis instead of the later 47 degree glacis plate.  Check this, the 9th row of photos down; notice the missing sandshields on tanks that have not been issued yet:

http://the.shadock.free.fr/sherman_minutia/manufacturer/m4a376w/m4a3_76w.html

QMS #41 is the USAAC/AAF OD #41 aircraft color which is not Army Ground Forces OD #9.  ANA 613 would be close to the proper AGF color as it was the revised color that the Army/Navy wanted to use for one OD, but the AAF did not as they directed manufacturers to continue to use OD 41.  As per Dana Bell's AF Colors, vol. 1.

"Is this the room for an argument?"  -- Monty Python

Stik> Just for arguments sake, do any of these appear close to a 1944 OD shade?  Vagaries of monitors aside.

Gary

Humbrol 66 is too dark for US Army ground forces WWII Olive Drab. It is good for the dark OD shade in use during Vietnam. But not WWII. 

As far as thinning Humbrol enamels for airbrushing, I get great results using Testors Universal enamel thinner to do that. 

Pawel

Hello Sarge!

That's an easy one - as long as the lacquer based coat is dry, you can paint enamels over that without any issues - I do it all the time. You could get into trouble trying to paint something lacquer based OVER an enamel coat, but even in such case it sometimes can be done.

Good luck with your build and have a nice day

Paweł

 

I noted that in your earlier reply you recommend ‘Future’ over the Humbrol 66. I have read about using Future as a seal coat, but I’m going to stay with what I know on this first experience with enamel paint. However, I would like to know how, or if you thin the Humbrol 66 for air brushing?

Ixion

I'm from the class of '77 of CRHS, my chemistry teacher, Larry Cloe, was of the first class, valedictorian in fact.

 

Ixion, I did not find Larry Cloe’s name in my Shumway Junior High year book; however, last night my wife and I talked with a lady who’s son was in one of Larry’s classes at Columbia River. She remembers Larry very well.