Sergeant

 

 

Sergeant

I came across this color photograph of an M4A3 Sherman that I believe represents an accurate example of paint used on most U.S. Army vehicles in the European Theater.

 

 

 

Comparing the Vallego 71.043 color with the photograph above and considering the dirt and fading I'm satisfied the FS34087 is a good match for World War II U.S. Army Olive Drab.

 

 

The only problem with that photo is that it was colorized. It is originally a B&W photo. It matches because somebody made it match.

Sergeant

I came across this color photograph of an M4A3 Sherman that I believe represents an accurate example of paint used on most U.S. Army vehicles in the European Theater.

After some consideration I decided to try building a stowage rack from scratch, what you see in the first photograph is a prototype made from .060” angle polystyrene. I think if I make another it should be a little larger, but I need some stowage pieces to determine the right size for a rack.

However, I‘m now wondering if a rack is even necessary. Stowage pieces can be put on the back seat, or even left out altogether. My recent objective has been to represent the 1944 photograph as close as possible, but my original plan was to reproduce in a diorama what the 1944 photograph represents.

In that photograph we see an M4A3 Sherman passing a Jeep facing the other direction. The Jeep has a radio and presumably is part of the 9th Armored Division during the Battle of the Bulge.

We know from the research that Stikpusher and Ixion did the location of the photograph above is a place called Petite-Rosiere on the road between Neufchareau and Bastogne, near the village of Nives. The M4, was from Combat Command A (CCA) of the 9th Armored Division, which was located southeast of Bastogne at the opening of the counteroffensive. Combat Command B (CCB) and Combat Command Reserve (CCR) were both to the northeast. CCB was sent as a blocking force in front St Vith, and CCR was sent as a blocking force in front of Bastogne. Combat Command Reserve was broken up into task forces and placed into the path of 5th Panzer Army advancing on Bastogne. They were outnumbered and out-equipped, had hold at all costs orders, and were nearly destroyed. Only a few survivors were able to escape being killed or captured. Their sacrifices bought time for the 101st Airborne to get to Bastogne and, along with the surviving elements of 28th Infantry Division, 10th Armored Division, 705th Tank Destroyer Bn, and several other units, make their heroic stand that prevented the German Army from recapturing the Port of Antwerp.

Hmm, yeah the Legend rack does look much better but don't discount the Black Dog ones. I've used the resin racks with molded in storage and they look great when all painted up. 

Thank you Gamera, I’m considering a Legend stowage rack instead of the Blackdog resin rack.

The Jeep and driver look great to me. Really nice work!

In my diorama I've decided to only have one Jeep, the one shown in the foreground of the photograph below, as well as the M4A3 Sherman, a road sign showing the direction to Bastogne plus one or two trees.

I prepared two slightly different stowage racks for the back of the Jeep. The one attached to the Jeep in the second photograph is similar to the one from 1944. The other has a gas can which would have been normal during the Battle of the Bulge, but is not shown in the photograph from 1944, possibly because the gas can and spare tire are under all the stowage.

The small brass parts in the second photograph are the flexible WWII MP-48 radio antenna base (mast) and five-piece MS49-53 antenna for an AM tuned radio. These parts are beautifully made to fit together for an overall scale height of 15 feet. The workmanship is excellent and as Stikpusher has confirmed they are a 1/35 scale of exactly what he used in the Army at a later time period.

You will be amazed at the amount of information, tips and techniques you can pick up watching builds. The trick is to practice those techniques and figure out how best to work them for you.

Never be scared to ask a question if you don't understand something, or ask for a more in depth explanation.

James

Thanks Harold,

Have been reading with great interest as your project develops, great how diverse the threads can become involving all aspects of the hobby and full of information.

Joe

Est.1961

I've just started airbrushing my first model and I went with Vallejo Air. I use an old laboratory mixer probably similar to nail varnish mixers never seen one, to mix my old enamels and it seems to be doing OK with the Vallejo. 

 

Harold

snapdragonxxx

Yes. I buy the shakers, take the dropper top off the Vallejo paint, put in a ball and the put the dropper top back on and the cap and then shake away.

It is a much simpler way and you don't loose any paint!

 

I've just started airbrushing my first model and I went with Vallejo Air. I use an old laboratory mixer probably similar to nail varnish mixers never seen one, to mix my old enamels and it seems to be doing OK with the Vallejo. 

Yes. I buy the shakers, take the dropper top off the Vallejo paint, put in a ball and the put the dropper top back on and the cap and then shake away.

It is a much simpler way and you don't loose any paint!

snapdragonxxx

Their bottle labelling does leave a lot to be desired. I put in a single AK shaker ball!

https://ak-interactive.com/product/stainless-steel-shakers/

When the paint gets to the end, the ball is transferred to the new one!

 

Their bottle labelling does leave a lot to be desired. I put in a single AK shaker ball!

https://ak-interactive.com/product/stainless-steel-shakers/

When the paint gets to the end, the ball is transferred to the new one!

That’s a decent price for what you get in the set. The rest of the stowage would go good in a trailer or what not.

As far as jeeps go, I always just think of them always having at least a driver and a passenger- usually an officer or senior NCO. Someone who rates a driver.

stikpusher

Sometimes those stowage sets are way over the top. Like that one. There is only room for a driver at that point, if you use all the items in the set. 

 

I like what you did on your 222 model, just enough stowage to make it realistic, but not overdone.

Sometimes those stowage sets are way over the top. Like that one. There is only room for a driver at that point, if you use all the items in the set. 

Vallejo 71.043 US Olive Drab painting done on the Jeep and its ready for Archer dry transfer decals, Blackdog resin snow-chain wheels and stowage rack, Legend resin BC1306 radio set, Adlers Nest MP-48 antenna base and MS49-53 antenna shown below. The antenna and base I made from scratch will be replaced.

I do not plan to use all the Blackdog stowage set shown below, just the rack for the back of the Jeep and the canvas roll on the front bumper. When the Adlers Nest antenna and base are installed the antenna base will be bent over and the antenna held in place like the photograph from 1944.

Vallejo does have a nice extensive color range. But some of their color names do not match reality. Their US uniform Olive Green, for example, does not match any that I have ever seen or come across in both my militaria collecting or service time. And that covers from WWII until the end of the OG era in the 80s. Its way too bright and green. The paint itself is ok, but those cursed dropper bottles are a pain for mixing. I ended up buying an electric nail polish shaker recently for this purpose. Now I am liking Vallejos better.

Vallejo is my primary go to paint at is chipset accurate and is a very high quality paint with a strong pigment which means that you don't need to use much to get the right depth.

I only use other brands when I have to and when I need colours that are not in the Vallejo range. The only exclusion to this is AK's Xtreme Metal range which beats Alclad hands down and won't melt your model! That and Vallejo's Metal colour range sits and co-exists side by side on my bench and gives me a huge tonal metal colour variety.

many other brands(mission, AK etc) use scale correctness formulae quoting light reflectability, which according to what a leading ophthalmic surgeon here in the UK says is total BS as the colours we see depend on the rods and cones in our eyes and differ from person to person as well as our subconscious lightning or darkening what we see in order to bring out detail.

Vallejo can always be modulated anyway by the depth of paint you apply although this takes some practice and thinning the paint a little.

I love how the Jeep has turned out with the Vallejo OD and the dry transfers directly on to that paint will look great. No varnishes needed!

James

Tamiya makes excellent paint, I like the Vallejo better for hand-brushing but you can't go wrong with the Tamiya. I'm just throwing out options, modeling like anything is just fiddling around with it till you find something that works for you. 

Gamera

 

 

Sergeant

 

 

Gamera

Steve Zaloga had a great article on olive drab but last time I looked for it I couldn't find it online so I'm guessing he wanted it taken down. 

I believe he called for mixing two parts Tamiya US olive drab to one part Tamiya German panzer yellow for a pretty good match. That's off the top of my head though, I do have the article at home and I'll try to remember to look for it. 

 

 

 

 

Gamera, I read Steve’s article and that’s where I came up with my first paint formula of Tamiya XF-62 Olive Drab with 25% to 35% XF-60 Dark Yellow (German Panzer yellow). I did not see any difference between 25% and 35% dark yellow; however, the end results were good to my eyes. They are shown above in my first post showing four spoons. The problem is I believe Tamiya has changed their XF-62 since Steve published his article and without a paint sample from him I have no way to compare my results.

 

Its been suggested I decide what looks good to me and go with it because after the weathering and camouflage the O.D. will look different anyway.

 

 

 

 

Sorry, guess I ended up telling you something you already know. That's what I get from skimming though the forum at lunch and then posting... 

 

Personally, I've been using Vallejo's olive drab primer, it comes in a larger bottle than what James listed. It's probably the same shade though I am not sure. AK Interactive makes a simular item.

I pre-shade the vehicle with AK Interactive's olive drab colour modulation set. It comes with six small dropper bottles that contain two darker shadow shades, a straight olive drab, and three lighter highlight shades to apply where sunlight would hit the top surfaces. A lot of people hate the colour modulation technique calling it silly and overdone, personally I like it since it adds some colour variation to a single colour subject. It's a matter of personal taste. 

And at that I agree totally with you- the correct colour is the one that looks right to you. I'm running off at the mouth but it seems you're happy with what you have so you should probably just go with it.  

 

snapdragonxxx

Try Vallejo Model Air 71.043 for the Olive Drab you need. its FS number is FS34087 which I believe is a match for the wartime ground forces OD.

 

James

 

Harold

GMorrison

Very thorough. Frankly, if you are building up a collection of AFV's, why not use all of those paints for a little variety?

 

Exactly. During my active duty days in a mech infantry battalion, I do recall such tonal varieties. 

Very thorough. Frankly, if you are building up a collection of AFV's, why not use all of those paints for a little variety?

Sergeant

The photograph below is the results of a test to determine which color best represents Olive Drab paint on World War II U.S. Army land force vehicles. In my opinion Vallejo 71.043 is the most accurate. Depending on your monitor, graphics card and settings you may find it difficult to make any significant distinction. There is also the recognized fact that few of us today have seen an actual WWII vehicle that has not be repainted. There are thousands of pictures of WWII vehicles that indicate the Olive Drab paint used was greener, or browner, or lighter than these samples. We know the paint that was used was prone to fading and often covered in dust, mud, snow and of course rain. When paint is wet it will look different, usually darker than when its dry.

The above photograph is a closeup of the same set of paint samples less the two samples on the right, that will help show the difference between Vallejo 71.043 and Tamiya XF-62 with a mix of 35% XF-60 Dark Yellow. If you recall Steve Zaloga's article described this Tamiya mix only he referred to Dark Yellow as German Panzer yellow, but as far as I can tell they are the same color. I think Steve had the right idea because the color is very similar to Vallejo's U.S. Olive Drab.

 

 

Sergeant

 

 

Gamera

Steve Zaloga had a great article on olive drab but last time I looked for it I couldn't find it online so I'm guessing he wanted it taken down. 

I believe he called for mixing two parts Tamiya US olive drab to one part Tamiya German panzer yellow for a pretty good match. That's off the top of my head though, I do have the article at home and I'll try to remember to look for it. 

 

 

 

 

Gamera, I read Steve’s article and that’s where I came up with my first paint formula of Tamiya XF-62 Olive Drab with 25% to 35% XF-60 Dark Yellow (German Panzer yellow). I did not see any difference between 25% and 35% dark yellow; however, the end results were good to my eyes. They are shown above in my first post showing four spoons. The problem is I believe Tamiya has changed their XF-62 since Steve published his article and without a paint sample from him I have no way to compare my results.

 

Its been suggested I decide what looks good to me and go with it because after the weathering and camouflage the O.D. will look different anyway.

 

Sorry, guess I ended up telling you something you already know. That's what I get from skimming though the forum at lunch and then posting... 

Personally, I've been using Vallejo's olive drab primer, it comes in a larger bottle than what James listed. It's probably the same shade though I am not sure. AK Interactive makes a simular item.

I pre-shade the vehicle with AK Interactive's olive drab colour modulation set. It comes with six small dropper bottles that contain two darker shadow shades, a straight olive drab, and three lighter highlight shades to apply where sunlight would hit the top surfaces. A lot of people hate the colour modulation technique calling it silly and overdone, personally I like it since it adds some colour variation to a single colour subject. It's a matter of personal taste. 

And at that I agree totally with you- the correct colour is the one that looks right to you. I'm running off at the mouth but it seems you're happy with what you have so you should probably just go with it.  

TigerII

If you permit me, this is how my M8 came out when I built it for my diorama. I just used Tamiya's Olive Drab XF-62.

 

If you permit me, this is how my M8 came out when I built it for my diorama. I just used Tamiya's Olive Drab XF-62.