Many folks are dissatisfied with the moderators,the banning of some popular members,the new format,the elimination of the "Odds and Ends" section,the restriction of free speech here,and the no fun approach.So as a result many have proclaimed that they are leaving,or just don't come as often.

Anthony

It does tend to kill a site lack of freedom of speech, what a shame, this used to be one of the best sites.

Hi guys,

Well, I guess this might be a question of quantity versus quality. Maybe some guys are spending more time at their workbenches, or maybe, as Tojo has said, they are spending more time on other forums.

The point is, the FSM Forum is a modeling forum, plain and simple. There isn't a free-speech issue: FSM has rules for its Forum and members are expected to adhere to them. We retain the right to remove members who do not respect or adhere to those rules. Otherwise, members are free to come and go as they please.

Just because we aren't churning through posts right now doesn't mean that we won't in the future. Nor does it mean that we should be. We would rather see 500 quality posts that come in over the course of a day rather than 5,000 posts that contain a single word or add little or nothing to the conversation.

As for fun, have it. Threads can meander. When it gets personal or distasteful is when we run into problems.

Finally, there have been two members banned recently: one for posting an inappropriate image of a nude woman and the other for swearing on the forum. Both of these are plainly out of bounds. They have been since the beginning. There have been numerous posts regarding such content and the repercussions for putting that sort of material on the forum. We talked to one over the phone twice about the banning, and had even agreed to discuss lifting the ban. Then he ban dodged, which ended in his permanent removal.

As we have said many times in the past, come here, talk, joke, blow off steam, and most importantly post about your models. However, remember that there are other people on the receiving ends of these posts, many who don't actually post but just lurk (lurk is not a pejorative). There are people who are not members who read these posts. But your fellow members deserve respect, and we are going to do our best to make sure that no one is posting anything abusive or inflammatory. It's not the Wild West in here, nor is it any one member or any one group of members' personal playground, despite what some people may have thought. We're sorry if that disappoints, but that's the way it is.

Take a look at ChuckW, Bsyamato, or VanceCrozier's posts to see what they've been working on lately. Group builds are still going. Stikpusher, RedCorvette, Bish, Hans, Tarnship, CallSignOwl, Professordeath, and many, many more, including you guys, are all still here, still building models, answering questions, and sharing knowledge. To my way of thinking, that's a fine, quality crowd to have around.

As always, if you want to discuss things further, you can email Aaron or me, or you can call us at 262-796-8776, xt. 299 or 230, respectively. But let's get back to talking about modeling and not worrying about the numbers on the Forum. Traffic picks up best when one of you has a cool new model or technique to show off or talk about.

Tim

Tim Kidwell

Finally, there have been two members banned recently: one for posting an inappropriate image of a nude woman and the other for swearing on the forum. Both of these are plainly out of bounds. They have been since the beginning. There have been numerous posts regarding such content and the repercussions for putting that sort of material on the forum. We talked to one over the phone twice about the banning, and had even agreed to discuss lifting the ban. Then he ban dodged, which ended in his permanent removal.

As we have said many times in the past, come here, talk, joke, blow off steam, and most importantly post about your models. However, remember that there are other people on the receiving ends of these posts, many who don't actually post but just lurk (lurk is not a pejorative). There are people who are not members who read these posts.

Tim

I am not going to respond to your entire post, so I selected the above section to focus on.

First, two disclaimers: 1) I have a great deal of respect for the admins on this site. I know that it is a PITA type of job and that, even in the best of times, there will be a few of us who act out and cause headaches for you.

2) Since the last format change, I have participated less and less here. I come and look around quite frequently, but do not post nearly as much as I used to. So take my comments for what they are - the musings and observations of a lackluster participant.

OK, with that out of the way, let me address my point. Tim, I believe you when you say that the FSM staff want this to be a place to discuss modeling and where members can have fun. Unfortunately, from what I have seen, the response of the mods to some of 'us' has resulted in some pretty unsatisfactory feelings. When Aaron tells members that they can't even discuss those who have been banned and the reasons for their banning, well, to me, that is excessive. The irony is, he probably created more headaches for himself (and the other admins/mods) than if he had just set his jaw and weathered the storm. People would have bit^&ed and moaned about the bannings of Bondo and Manny for a while, but once they had vented it would have been a dead issue. By 'suppressing' the community response to these bannings, the Mods create an atmosphere of resentment.

I would also take a bit of exception to your second statement about how we can feel free to joke around, relax, chew the fat, etc. Unfortunately, there seems to be an emphasis on the part of FSM (perhaps Kalmbach driven) to cater this forum to the possibility that there are young, impressionable eyes scanning the threads. The result is, (again from my perspective) is the sense that members have to 'tone down' their posts out of fear that an 8 or 9 or 10 year old might see them. This is problematic when we (the community at large) only wish to be treated as adults. Sometimes that means that we will say things that are not for 'innocent' ears. Sometimes that means that we will tread into areas that are a little sensitive or risque. Sadly, it seems like FSM has no patience for that. Rather than recognize that the vast majority of the participants here are "young" to "middle aged" men, it seems like you want us to tailor ourselves to cater to the few under 18's who are out there (and let's be honest for a minute - we all have seen the content of PG-13 movies, so we are really catering to the under 13's who may come to the site). The result is that we really cannot come here and joke around, at least not in an 'adult' way. And yeah, I get it. Sometimes the boundary between 'adult' and 'inappropriate' is very vague, but I guess that is the price that we pay for 'free speech' - some of that speech can get uncomfortable. "Life's tough... wear a cup..."

I also get that this is a privately owned site and it is entirely up to Kalmback what rules we have to abide by to participate. If we don't like the rules, or the community that results from the rules, we are free to go elsewhere.

There is something 'dead' at this site. at least for me. Is it due to the format changes, the destruction of Odds and Ends, and the more strict adherence to the rules? I don't know. However, I do know that I find only a fraction of the pleasure out of this site that I used to, and I get the sense that many of the 'old time' members feel the same way. Perhaps it doesn't matter - as we drift away a new crop of members will emerge and create their own sort of community.... All I know is, if anyone is looking for me, Dupes, Wing_nut and several others, you can find us at the Modeler's Social Club...

Thanks Bbrownii,I just registered over at that site,

good lord. this is what happened EVERYONE GO'S BLANK now and then some come and some go. and if some just want to rant on how bad a build is that's there problem let them. i just blank out the ones with nothing to say good. and if this wasn't here where the heck would people go. modeling is almost a dead craft here in the states. more popular in Europe. and i'll be buying the mag till hell freezes over and I HATE CHANGE

Clay

Tim and Aaron

I have been here now for 7 years. I have stayed all through the years mainly for my online friends. This site has gone through many changes and ups and downs. Now I only patronize the armor forum. Over the past few years there has been a slow decline in members. Now, in my opinion the usage and number of members is the worst I have ever seen. There are a very few ( count on one hand) of old timers. I am also over on Modelers Social Club, where by the way about 30 of the old regular Armor modelers from FSM now reside.

I will hang in here as long as I can but I will tell you this site for the first time has become boring. I understand what you are saying Tim and it reads like a well written company line. As someone who has been here a long while I use words like stale, boring, lack of direction, and generally lack of enthusiasm to describe the current site.

As Aaron knows and Tim for your benefit, either of you can speak to me offline anytime.

Off my soap box......

Rounds Complete!!  

There's another large group of expats over on Scale Plastic & Rail (sparforums.com), too. With a very big influx over the weekend. It seems pretty obvious to me that a lot of longtime members have become very disillusioned with this forum and if they aren't outright leaving, they're certainly backburnering their presence here. I know I have, since the format change seemed to knock down the activity around here by about half. And Tim, a good portion of that list of members you gave have done the same.

I don't mean to be a downer, but something is plainly rotten in the state of Denmark, and I don't think being pollyanna-ish about it is doing anybody any favors. I don't think that it's just "if only we would post more about modeling". There's something that's fundamentally broken right now. IMO acknowledging that and actively seeking to redress it would do you guys a ton of good.

I check the site out and the rules is that you must post or you will be banned. I have recently returned to the hobby and read and learn. I post rarely,but I do post. Do to the fact that I have yet anything to add. It's sounds a bit like beginners not welcome. I could be wrong.

I dunno-  I still enjoy exchanging information here, and I don't consider it to be a "social site" like facebook or whatever.  I've learned a lot of modeling tips, and enjoy sharing my experiences with others, and that's what it's all about.  A few humorous exchanges now and then make it enjoyable.  

Gone , gone 

I was thinking of making a come back but it seems as though there has been a serious drop off in participation.

Steve58

I check the site out and the rules is that you must post or you will be banned. I have recently returned to the hobby and read and learn. I post rarely,but I do post. Do to the fact that I have yet anything to add. It's sounds a bit like beginners not welcome. I could be wrong.

As far as I know there isn't a problem with beginners,most of us welcome beginners,and if I see a new post of a build from a new guy,I will comment.It does go two ways however,if you are new,it is your obligation to become involved in your community,you can always comment on what you like about somebody's build.

Yes, I always enjoy sharing my long years of experience with beginners to return the favors others have bestowed on me, many years past.  I have come a long way in this hobby and have a lot of help to offer, and it makes me feel good being able to do so.

redleg12

Tim and Aaron

I have been here now for 7 years. I have stayed all through the years mainly for my online friends. This site has gone through many changes and ups and downs. Now I only patronize the armor forum. Over the past few years there has been a slow decline in members. Now, in my opinion the usage and number of members is the worst I have ever seen. There are a very few ( count on one hand) of old timers. I am also over on Modelers Social Club, where by the way about 30 of the old regular Armor modelers from FSM now reside.

I will hang in here as long as I can but I will tell you this site for the first time has become boring. I understand what you are saying Tim and it reads like a well written company line. As someone who has been here a long while I use words like stale, boring, lack of direction, and generally lack of enthusiasm to describe the current site.

As Aaron knows and Tim for your benefit, either of you can speak to me offline anytime.

Off my soap box......

Rounds Complete!!  

Well said, Mike. You summarized in two paragraphs what I babbled on about for 6!

M1Carbine

I was thinking of making a come back but it seems as though there has been a serious drop off in participation.

Just do it Bob. 

I'd be here more, except my work schedule is quite brutal.

The changing of the format initially bugged me, but I like it and have always had constant changes at my old job with software. People just need to grow up and accept it. It's not that big a deal.

It would be nice to have an old Odds & Ends forum back, but members or trolls will always find a way to ruin it for everyone with their soapbox shenanigans.

Steve58

I check the site out and the rules is that you must post or you will be banned. I have recently returned to the hobby and read and learn. I post rarely,but I do post. Do to the fact that I have yet anything to add. It's sounds a bit like beginners not welcome. I could be wrong.

Beginners are very much welcome, and honestly I would say this is one of the more beginner-friendly forums out there. All of us have been beginners are one point (or more than one point!), and most who post (posted?) here remember that. 

But to get the most out of a forum, this or any other, you have to participate. Even if you feel like you're at a beginner level, you can still comment on others' builds, or jump in and ask how something was done, why it was done a certain way, or what's the point of X technique...honestly participating in a good forum will push your modeling skills further, faster than any tool or brand of paint. 

Well since I was called out by name in here by the powers that be, I will add my 2 cents on this subject.

First off thank you for the kind words. I truly appreciate being put in with those first rate modelers and being called a helpful productive member here. I could not ask for more.

Now, I gotta say this: I LOVE FSM site and the Magazine. I first started coming on here while I was on deployment with the Guard overseas as a new way to keep in touch with this great hobby on any day that I was not outside the wire and had internet access. As such FSM has a very special place to me. Active participation here has led me to the local IPMS (Many thanks to Duke Maddog/Mark) and from there in to AMPS. Both are wonderful organizations that I wholeheartedly recommend. And like I have said before I am not leaving here. I am stubborn and will stay following the rules here. But I am not blind to what has been going on and BBIII and Redleg summed up my own observations and feelings pretty well. Beyond their points, it feels like we are walking on eggshells here lately, and that when I am posting, I am talking to an empty room. And that is the real shame. I have no qualms with those who violate the forum rules being punished accordingly. That is life. But it does seem that for the recent past, more of a group punishment approach has been taken in the deletion of entire threads and forums rather than targeting the specific violators. And that has  stamped out the fun spirit in here.

Yes, I have signed on to other sites recently. Why? Because that is where people ARE talking and posting. I do hope that things return to a better, more active state here. I'll still be around. But if there is no one who posts for me to say someting about, or replies to my posts, I won't be doing much talking in the empty room. Cherry or Master Guru are all needed here to make this place fun and active.

Stick

Your point on the empty room is seconded. Totally agree.

For those newbees who read this please do not take this wrong and I always appreciate see newbies look in. We need a LOT more of you to get this back to the way it was.

Stick, this was family here, and when we came on to the forum it was like a family gathering. Now it is like everyone has moved away!!

Still watching from my bunker

Rounds Complete!!

There's no denying that the forums have undergone a significant change in the past few months. I will admit to not wandering outside the comfort zone of the Armor forum much so I don't have any idea what's been happening in other areas or with other users and have been blithely ignorant of the various controversies that seem to have sprung up as a result. Perhaps that's a good thing judging by some of the comments that have been posted.

Ever since the forum format changed, there was a noticeable shift in the posting frequency and response rates but I chalked that up to the fact that the filters on the 'read/unread' posts wasn't working correctly and once people figured that out things would return to a more normal flow. For whatever reason or combination of reasons, that hasn't happened and the flow of the Armor forum has definitely dropped as a result.

Online communities are always evolving and changing and FSM has always been a special place since I first discovered it back in 2002. A lot of people have come and gone and returned and left again in that period of time, it's part of the nature of the beast and is not necessarily a bad thing so long as a core of activity continues to happen and foster interaction. I fear that core is now in danger of falling apart but that's not something that's inevitable and is wholly dependent on the attitudes and levels of participation of the members here.

The 'empty room' syndrome mentioned is a serious problem in my view. When people don't get the 'personal' reinforcement that comes form responses, discussion, and comments then they will just quietly slip away and go where they do receive that kind of confirmation that their posts/contributions have value.

I have always frequented other forums because diversity is a good thing and they all have their plus and minus qualities to them. I hope that the members here will continue to participate and use the 'subscribe' function to threads to keep up to date even if they aren't around as much as before. I know there was a time when you could count on a steady stream of comments from the 'regulars' on any particular build that was running but that stream of 'regulars' has been diminishing. Perhaps our 'lurker' friends will step up and fill the void?

Personally I will continue to post and comment and show what's happening on my bench where appropriate because FSM was my 'first home' on the internet...the first place that I wasn't afraid to show my work, ask for comments, and get support vs. other places that were less than inviting at the time.

Any forum is only as good as the members who belong and participate!

wbill76

Personally I will continue to post and comment and show what's happening on my bench where appropriate because FSM was my 'first home' on the internet...the first place that I wasn't afraid to show my work, ask for comments, and get support vs. other places that were less than inviting at the time.

Any forum is only as good as the members who belong and participate!

Hear! Hear! (or is it Here! Here! )

or to paraphrase a favorite movie:Harumph! Harumph! Harumph!

The format changes are a serious PITA! I wanted to quote a post in this thread,but how to do it?

I miss the OT section and despise mods sweeping in and locking/deleting topics because we weren't discussing plastic.I just don't enjoy it around here like I used to.

Its gone

TD4438

The format changes are a serious PITA! I wanted to quote a post in this thread,but how to do it?

I miss the OT section and despise mods sweeping in and locking/deleting topics because we weren't discussing plastic.I just don't enjoy it around here like I used to.

TD , click the "reply" button of the post you want to quote , then click the "enriched format" button ( why its called "enriched" gets me , reminds me of Wonder bread  ) , now at the bottom of the other persons post there will be a "quote" in green , click that and their post will be there for you to type under . If you still cant figure it out just ask for clarification . So many steps for so little ........................

I like the new forum that many of the guys moved to,But I see no reason to abandon this one,there are still plenty of great people here.

Gone

Hi guys,

I admit it has slowed down but it is still, by FAR, my favourite forum

I've learnt a lot on here and continue to do so and above all have made some EXCELLENT friends- keep it up everyone!

I've been spending ALL of my recent FSM time concentrating on the 'Steel Cat's' GB run by Tigerman so I haven't been on the main Armour section for a while - that's all.

All the best,

Ben

Let me clear up my last statement. I was referring to the  Modelers Social Club.

Bill

Well said, and as another of the armor forum regulars thanks for adding your comments.

Now Aaron & Tim,

if you go through the armor forum and look for the older regulars who post here....you will find Shell, Stick WBill, and myself and others. All of this discussion and this entire posting would not be happening if we all did not see a problem. As Bill and others have stated we have seen members come and go...we have seen changes. This time is different and there is some fundamental problems.

All of the regulars who have posted in this tread have the same basic loyalty to FSM. BUT be careful...if this continues or gets worse, even loyal friends will leave. I don't want to see these forums become a Dodo bird.

I suggest rather than having a "company line" you may want to think about a limited survey to members with over a particular amount of posts and years on the site (PS one thing that I hate is the loss of that info....the stars are bovine scatology). Say 10 or so from each major forum area and get their ideas to fix the mess. What did we like from the past.... what would we want to see in the future.

Most of the regulars here are like family and would be more than willing to help....its your house but it is our home. You family is telling your house we don't want to find a new home. Also if we did not care, we would not go through the effort to post in this thread.

OK....off my ammunition crate

Rounds Complete!!

Among all the things about this place that have managed to discourage me and drive me away over the last two years, the knowledge that all of the above intelligent and heartfelt posts will be gone by this time tomorrow is the most frustrating.

It has happened before all over this place, it will happen here as well.

It will be like none of you said anything and the wheel will turn. Very sad.

I'm confused  some post's say they do not like FSM and have gone to other site's so why are they

posting here. As for the freedom speech the true meaning of that  I'm afraid has long been lost

 I do have to agree that scale modeling is going through a recession of its own. In my local yellow

pages under hobby shops there are 29 listing 9 are hobby shops ( model kits,trains, RC and so on )

6 games, 5 train 9 I'm not sure about.  I miss the hobby shops like Big Bear, Hobby Horse

   So yes some forums are slow on post's but what do you want bench time or post time.

Now that winter is here I will have more bench time and more time to post things

Army guy - I would say that most of us who have ventured elsewhere still have an affinity for this place, just not for what it has become/where it's at right now. It's kind of like Jaguar in the 80s and 90s. Nobody I've ever met has ever hated Jaguar (the way some people hate BMW or Lexus or whatnot), but the sense of disappointment during those years was profound. I can't speak for others, but I don't plan on leaving, hard stop. I have, however, found my activity here and my following of threads greatly diminished. This forum used to be my only stop. Now it's like my third or fourth.

As for modeling being in a recession...I disagree. The local hobby shop is being hammered, but honestly so are most physical retailers that sell things you don't have to feel or try on. But the hobby is positively booming online. I've been back at this a little over two years now, and the stuff that's come out even since I've been back is mind boggling. Peter Jackson owns a modeling company! Someone made a 1/32 B-25! Revell and Airfix are becoming respected names again with each new tooling they release.

Honestly I feel like we're in a golden age right now.

Where have all the flowers gone ?

        Gee guys....... don't be so  glummmm.                                                                                    

          I'M still here.

                         (Maybe that's what drove 'em off)

Maybe not as often (I bop in and out) but you won't find me postin' my junk on any other site either.

I find two things very interesting when someone leaves. Or gets left.

1) How many other personalities leave with them...

2) How many new personalities show up...

Tony

Gone

Guys, can't we just all get along? 

We just need to get back to the benches and work on our builds and share them. I know I would like to do more of that, but again, my schedule has been brutal of late.

From my experience here, good ones will leave and good ones will eventually take their place.

Hi fellas,

Before I started building armour models I was a dead keen rifle shooter (and still am) so I used to frequent a lot of the shooting sites.

The 'main' sites like 'airgunbbs' started to lose members and threads like this started to appear. Like this site they were funded by magazine money etc and it was onbvious the mods would poo their pants as soon as something likely to be taken the wrong way by site sponsors was posted and LOTS of people got banned as a result. The mods banned them but, imo and others, it was not because they wanted to but simply to 'placate' the sponsors (i.e. to keep them happy).

I hope this is just a blip - this site is too good to go South. We need to get things in order as I'd be lost without FSM. Sure, I'm a member of other forums i.e. MilMod because I personally know a lot of the guys on there as it's obviously a British site and the MSC (Modellers Social Club). The MSC seems very slow and this place moves faster and is more user friendly (imo) than MilMod.

Keep the faith brothers

Hear! Hear! (or is it Here! Here! )

Regardless... if you want it to be Heard! Heard! you have to go over There! There! somewhere the people Are! Are!

If a post falls in the forest and there is no one there to hear it, does it get banned?

Those that know me know that I post in this type of thread so rarley it's just easier to say I odn't.  But above, since I was mentioned... well here I am.

The internet did not exist in my previous modelling life. FSM was my 1st forum when I came back to modelling.  I did a search for the 2 mags I read a long ago.  FSM and Scale Modeler.  The latter was gone so here I am.  The 7 years have been great.  If there weren't I would not in the top 10, (or at least I was) posters.  Fun was had, info was shared both ways and my modeling improved drastically.  And that all happened even with the occasional flair up of tempers, the use of a bad word or what someone else deems to be an inappropriate photo. And you know what kind I mean.  Because it is obviously not a rendition of a weapon whose sole purpose to to turn folks and he other side of your line into a pink mist. A nude photo, weapons and death, censorship.  "Offensive" is a broad brush.  Be that as it may,  as said, it's FSM's site and they can do what they want.  Now let me digress a little.  Since my grammar, or parsing or sentence structure stuff that I learnbed so long ago I don't remember any more... I have no idea where to start a new paragraph...

So I kinda want to do one now i am sorry to have offended anyone, I was having a bit of sarcastic fun.  But, now I have decided I really don't have anything else to say.  Maybe due to the empty room syndrome.

Hello?  (tap, tap, tap)  Is this mic on?

Oh one last thought.  If I post a photo of the a bomber or fighter (weapon=OK) that has the nude figure on the fuselage (nude =bad)... does that cause the logic loop, like the one in "WarGanes" that made the WOPR go off it's nut, cause forum to implode creating a black hole in Wisconsin?

Hinksy

 poo

hmmm.............

joined this site jan 2004.  just a loner who built models in a corner.  spent some time learning the ropes around here.  met some folks who for some strange reason called me a friend and helped me to improve and come out of the box i was in.  then there was a bit of a bump when a blow up happened.  started when one member just decided that he needed to move on.  he made it clear that it was not a big thing but just where he was in his modeling "life".  people took up the fight and some left claiming fsm was to blame.  the individual in question told those of us who had joined him on his next adventure that he held no hard feeling toward fsm but needed to move on.  a member of fsm actually was with us in that early move.  i stuck around and gradually worked/posted my way to near the top of the list for number of posts.  a while later another large blowup happened.  cant really remember what that one was all about.  i think a couple of members had a large disagreement and things spiralled.  people left again.  good people whom i felt were friends.  i tried to play peacemaker and tried to lift moral with my postings.  a while after that another blow up, this time i was a part of it.  had some words with a person across the country over weathering.  some bad feelings were passed.  people left. 

you get my point?

blow ups happen for many reasons.  i stopped posting here for a long time, several years, over, among other things, a bunch of little stuff.  good people will leave, newcomers will come in and build their reputations, they will fill the void.  people will remember the "good ol days".  there have been too many blow ups to count in my time associated with this site.  i cannot count the number of the "good ones" that have left.  i also cannot count the number of good ones that have come in to pick up the pieces. 

i dont post a lot anymore.  many reasons for that.  i dont post much of my work anymore, again many reasons.  you all make your own choices.  you all decide to stay or to go.  i do the same. 

this latest blow up seems to be about members pushing the accepted level of what fsm will allow and fsm trying to find a way to control the situation.  see it for what it truely is.  it is not about fsm trying to make us the members conform.  it is about fsm trying to maintain a level of control on a situation.  it happens everywhere.  work, home, where you eat, etc.  some are charged to enforce the rules.  some feel they have the right to push the limit of those rules.

no i am not an employee of fsm.  just a model ...............well just a person who attempts to put glue to plastic.  it is just i, just like some of you, am a person who in my daytime job is a person who is charged to enforce rules.

going back to my dark corner.

joe

Joe - well said and excellent perspective. The more things change, eh?

FWIW, I agree that it's about FSM trying to maintain a level of control over the forums. I don't have a problem with that at all, really. I just happen to feel there have been several situations (the aforementioned grievances) where a different approach could have yielded massively different results.

Also, Tim, Aaron, massive kudos to you guys for letting this thread run.

I don't think it's that hard to follow a few simple rules.  Lets build some models and enjoy each others work.  Winter is here, things will pick up again.  I'm enjoying getting back to the bench again myself.

Mike

DoogsATX

Steve58

I check the site out and the rules is that you must post or you will be banned. I have recently returned to the hobby and read and learn. I post rarely,but I do post. Do to the fact that I have yet anything to add. It's sounds a bit like beginners not welcome. I could be wrong.

Beginners are very much welcome, and honestly I would say this is one of the more beginner-friendly forums out there. All of us have been beginners are one point (or more than one point!), and most who post (posted?) here remember that. 

But to get the most out of a forum, this or any other, you have to participate. Even if you feel like you're at a beginner level, you can still comment on others' builds, or jump in and ask how something was done, why it was done a certain way, or what's the point of X technique...honestly participating in a good forum will push your modeling skills further, faster than any tool or brand of paint. 

DoogATX,

I was talking about the  Modelers Social Club. I think this site is very beginner friendly.

No worries, Steve! Just read it wrong...check out Scale Plastic & Rail's forums though (sparforums.com)...I post on both and definitely feel it's the more beginner-friendly.

What i said is gone .

He didn't give a harumph

I changed it a little on you Stiks .

Careful now... you may find an unexpected visitor on their way to see you...

DoogsATX

No worries, Steve! Just read it wrong...check out Scale Plastic & Rail's forums though (sparforums.com)...I post on both and definitely feel it's the more beginner-friendly.

Thanks, I will check it out.

Carl, if I understood what you meant then I might know if you understood what I meant.

Tony

Tis gone

Hmmm, ok, let's go with that. And btw, I feel a modeling marathon coming on in just a few days...

Tony

Carl,

I thought that was the face of IPMS?!

Well after lurking here on and off for some time, and trying to stay out of some discussions I do have to comment.

We all know FSM made changes once before and lost members, I for one stood away for some time. I check in here now and then because I know many here from this forum and also from attending shows in this area.

Forums are like websites, you have to make changes to keep with the times. Sometimes they work good, sometimes not.

I got tired of the bs and politics found on most sites and decided to start my own. So the forum that has been mentioned here several times, MSC, is my forum. As far as the rule that you have to build and blog or you get banned. Well that is not a strict rule and is mainly intended to keep the spammers and those who  go on forums just for the sole purpose of stirring trouble.  The one rule about blogging mainly applied to the Model of the Month. This is also to deter those who just register on forums to enter and try and win contests. MSC is for the model who just likes to build models and have fun doing it. Plain and simple, how the hobby should be.

Now as far as FSM, well just give it time and things will level out again. MSC will also be doing some changes due to host changes. I would worry more about the people who don't build and just like to rattle cages with dumb comments.

FSM has always been a great magazine and forum, and will always be. I agree with Bill, and also check and post on various forums, always have and always will.

For those who came over to MSC, nice to have you but don't forget this place.

Cheers

Rob

I'm just going to throw my here. 

I used to be a very regular member a few years ago, you know, the type that clicks refresh every 5 mins to look if there is any new posts anywhere.  I even posted the "Yes!!" answer I got from the wife when I proposed before I even informed my mom.

The thing is, for me, work got in the way of a lot of things, which in turn, made me change a few things here and there.....  mainly, modelling related things. 

I was reduced to choose between coming here and participating as before, or log in decent benchtime on a build.  Well, I like building a lot, so the choice I had to make was clear. 

I tried to "update" my friends here on what I was currently doing by posting ever lasting and overdue WIPs, only to find out that the whole Forum format changed since I was here last, to the point where I had to re-learn how to post and attach pics every time I stopped by.....    A real turn off.....Don't mind me, change sometimes is good, but also can be very disconforting....      I also really miss the Odds & Ends section.....      It was the "Life of the Party" IMHO...

The point is, I really miss the Forum I signed into years ago, the atmosphere and all my old buddies... 60, my "fiend" Shellback, Tigerman, Bill, M1, Plastic Cross, brother Tread, terry35, espin, and the whole Italeri GB bunch!!!!!!!!! 

I'm always stopping by and lurking a bit however... 

BTW..... where is that "Preview" button hiding now???

Gone

I left here 2 years ago when I was censored for comminting on the Lindburg Battub toy called a submarine, i had bought the kit and was giving an honust revied an my post was locked and censored for speaking the truth, I check in every 3 to 4 months if I think of it there are better sites than this in fact even the magineze is getting stale and this is the last year I will renew, how many times can you review a panther or tiger tank. This is my last post for a while, mabe the editors will look at the good suggestions and evlove or it is doomed to fail. it was a good run but thats it

JD

stikpusher

He didn't give a harumph

harumph...  HARUMMPH!!

Sherman1111

I left here 2 years ago when I was censored for comminting on the Lindburg Battub toy called a submarine, i had bought the kit and was giving an honust revied an my post was locked and censored for speaking the truth, I check in every 3 to 4 months if I think of it there are better sites than this in fact even the magineze is getting stale and this is the last year I will renew, how many times can you review a panther or tiger tank. This is my last post for a while, mabe the editors will look at the good suggestions and evlove or it is doomed to fail. it was a good run but thats it

JD

Man oh man! That was one of the best threads EVER! I never saw the Ships Forum in such an uproar. I wish that I could have saved it for posterity.

This site ain't so bad, a little stuffy at times, but it is comfortable, like an old shoe. I miss the old times when it was a little rowdier here, it got a little out of hand at times but the moderators would reel it back in, chew everyone out and it would be OK for a while. I wouldn't want to be a moderator on any forum but this one seems to be easier to control than others. I would just like it if the old Odds and Ends section would be restored so we could still have an outlet to discuss off topic subjects without having to resort to meeting at another website to do so. I have recently joined the MSC site just to be able to do just that. I haven't been there but for a very short time, but from what I see, it is a very friendly site and there are many members of FSM there, too.

Lee

Well my comment was only one off shock at first as to where everyone was after my time away. I didnt know it would stir up this much interest.

As for me i used to love blogging my builds and would go into real depth as to everything i did.I dont  tend  to blog anywhere really now. this is because one of  my builds was torn to pieces on this very site and a few members i really liked stuck up for me and left because of it. I wont mention any names but after the person waded in on my build with this is wrong thats wrong and thats not right, that gap is to big between turret and hull ETC all manufacturers mistakes i felt like throwing my model in the bin. Before those comments and the massive row on here i was really happy with my model. It was a case of it should have been said in the way of politeness, Like Andy that is very nice but in the future to make it even better you might want to change this and that ,sort of thing. I still love modelling and i do this for my self pleasure but i rarely blog anything. That was wiped out of me and i have never felt the same. I expect that's how some of the newbie,s leave some forums , to intimidated by arrogant posters thinking they know it all  and others are beneath them. I still put up my builds on MSC and Military modelling but mainly the finnished product. I do describe my builds however in magazine articles for those that follow and like my work. I must say that MSC is by far the friendliest site i have been on and i cant recall any crossed words what so ever,its not that sort of forum. It does have freedom of speach and a chat room which is great. I do show reports on there for people that fail to make certain shows and post up lots of piccies and there are some very talented guys on there that are not up themselves and are willing to share their knowledge.Andy A

Bodge that is sad to hear about what happened. I for one hold your builds in high regards, and definitely think you should carry on with your building blogs as before. There is always gonna be some stuff shirt blowhard know it all snob who is gonna chime in and rain on the parade. And when they bash the kit you are building for mistakes the manufacturer may or may not have have made? Oh well! That is beyond your control, and if the kit does not meet their standards. Remarks are best  made as to how to help the builder correct those deficiencies, if they feel so inclined. Constructive criticism above all is best delivered in a manner where it is constructive and not merely critical. Especially here. This is a hobby for Pete's sake, and not something we do where lives, fortunes, or the fate of nations is at stake.

"It's only a model".

Yes there are a lot of miffed feelings around here right now and your thread is just the latest and currently longest surviving where the members have aired their grievances. I do hope that you pull on your internet body armor, go build some more, and share your work for us to see. Ignore the blowhards and take pride in your work.  If there is a grain of truth in their rants, sift thru and find what is useful, but do not let them take the joy out of your passion here. And speaking for myself, that is what this hobby is to me, a passion.

Stikpusher, you said pretty much what I was thinking and did so quite well; all valid points and I hope well taken. As for the forum, it's pretty much the only one I go to, due to time constraints as well as getting all the help I need right here. I certainly subscribe to the notion that the forum is only as good or bad as those who contribute, moderators notwithstanding. That being said I think there's room for other "outlets" on the web to vent, etc. however the fact that people are encouraged to stay on message in this forum is probably for the best.

I enjoy the people here that I've come in contact with and also still enjoy getting FSM every month. To me, for the price it's the best modeling magazine and I suspect I will continue to subscribe for many years to come.

What i said is gone .

Shut up you inconsiderate gasbag or I will come to the west coast and make you give me your lunch money.

tread

Well, I for one hope you guys stick around to help newbies like myself improve and become more involved. I have just joined the site a couple months ago and I see quite a bit of good here. I'd hate to have it die off when I've just gotten started!

I joined back here in 2008 or so, first learning the craft and picking up a lot of good tips from the masters and veterans. This site used to be rocking and whenever someone dropped an idea, there'd be a counterpoint in 10mins or less. The idea exchange in this place was second to none, not to mention the constructive criticism and detailed how-to's when a newbie asked a question on technique. Whenever someone made an incorrect fact about the Eastern Front, Manstein would post a scanned page from some obscure out-of-print book on his shelf, or reference a scanned page of correct camoflauge patterns on an Ausf Z variant of 555th Abeiltung in Yugoslavia.

Those were the days. Life got in the way and I stopped building but I always came back every month, to see what the guys were up to and what beautiful models were being made. Then it became three months, and six months, and a year. The format has changed a lot. I have had to relearn the navigation and the updates aren't as frequent. I will be checking out this MSC and hopefully see some of the old hands at work again. It's a shame because this was a real gem of a community, and while I can't offer any solutions to reviving it, I appreciated it enough to lament it's decline.

One solution that couldn't hurt would be to  still contribute here,while checking in on MSC,thats what I plan to do.This is a good site and I still plan to be around,while still keeping up with the guys who are elsewhere

Its gone 

lol

Hasenpfeffer

Well, I for one hope you guys stick around to help newbies like myself improve and become more involved. I have just joined the site a couple months ago and I see quite a bit of good here. I'd hate to have it die off when I've just gotten started!

No problem with me staying. There are still plenty of great people here and certainly more to follow.

I have been reading thro' this post.

To be honest I don't know what has been going on but then I'm always the last to know.

I do know that I miss 'manny' but there are always House Rules and if you find them oppressive then Yes you will migrate to other sites.

I joined MSC just for an extension to meeting other modelers and seeing their builds and now I am meeting you all again over there[:D.

However I am not giving up on this Forum although one thing I do notice compared to other Forums is that the Moderators do not join in on the posts/Chat/Banter, why is that I wonder?.

Perhaps the points people have raised will bring about some changes; I do not think they should be ignored...cheers....Kenny

Things do seem to be picking up again here, which is good.

Kenny, i had noticed that as well. But i think on those other sites the Mods are just regular modellers who happen to have taken on the role of Mods.

This is the only forum i come on thats related to a magazine, so i don't know if the others are the same. I just figure that here the mods are working for the company that runs this whole thing and modding this forum is just one of their jobs. I know the Mods here also build kits, but they seem to be for reviews in the mag, so they can't really show them here and maybe they have to stay impartial due to the makeup of the forum.

Thats my guess anyway.

I'm not much for commenting in discussion as this but will add my few thoughts.

Yes I have noticed drop in activity and have been concerned.  In one way or another figure it will eventually come back to normal and everyone or new members will get back to building and less complaining.  There's rules in everything and either you like them or you don't, that's for the individual to decide.  I believe there are many freedoms here and I have had the privilege to meet many great people.  I believe some rules need to be in place and I have not found anything here to be overbearing, then again as I have said I usually do not participate in such discussions and concentrate more on building my models.  If I can make friends along the way that's even better if not I will just keep building anyway.  My life has to many other real problems to deal with rather then to come here and make more, I come here to relax and escape some of those real problems.

I'm not one of the old members but not new either, not sure where that puts me   I do plan on staying here and continuing on as always.  I can only hope that my friends I have met on here will also continue but if not I wish them the best, I will miss them if they leave but to each their own.

As already said, things are what you make them and I will be here to see what I can make.  I have not been around as much lately because of some misfortunes with family health and hospital visits, keeping up with work, still settling from my last move, daughter leaving for the Navy, dog sick and a list of other things.................

Between all of that, I will be here building my models and having fum.

Bodge sorry to here of your experience you had but I do what you to know even though I do not know you, have seen some of your work and had always thought it to be some of the best.  You are among those who influence and motivate me to keep trying.  Would absolutly love to see more of your work and how you achieve it.

Kind of a run on but that's all I have to say on this subject.  Will see you all in your WIPS or in mine.  Keep on building

WOW!! Things have really changed since my last 'lurking session". I was an active member, up to losing my home during hurricane Sandy. I didn`t visit the site much in the last 2 1/2 months but still read my e-mails of post notifications and had no idea the "S" hit the fan around here. I really love this forum and learned many things from the "veteran" members and feel their mass exodus will definately hurt the community. That said, the rules are the rules and are plainly laid out for all to see...if you don`t agree with them, move on. I will be visiting the other forums mentioned, but will always have my foot-in-the-door at FSM.

...and I thought it was because everyone was trimming and assembling bogies or something.  I know I am!

But it is unfortunate that the vocal uber experts get so hot under the collar bashing kits.  All criticism and no progress make for few finished models, which is what this hobby is about.  The ones who will mock me and say "No-no-no-no-no-no, the hobby is all about total accuracy, and anything below that is an unbuildable cartoon caricature of a toy egg plane!" are deluding themselves and wasting our time.  While it is useful to know about inaccuracies, I find that following through with every single correction bogs me down and saps all the fun out of building models. The DML T28 is rife with mistakes, but I decided that I can live with the ones I can't fix, and will fix the ones that I can.  I did notice a lot of poor engineering and sloppy shortcuts that I found a little suprising, but in the end I will have a cool looking model.

I think the ones who just build without worrying about "fatal flaws" are the hapiiest (and most productive) modelers.  Call them "aasemblers", but I'm sure they don't give a rip.  Build to have fun and please yourself.  If your'e not having fun, hang up the X-Acto and take up stamp collecting or something.

I'm now putting on my flame suit and ducking for cover from the rain of fire that is sure to follow from all the angry stamp collectors...

Somebody slammed Bodge?

There's another website?

I guess work really IS getting in the way.......

Sheeesh. I had no idea. I guess I've been away too long!

Well, as a long-member of FSM, and a featured author along with wbill76 and a few others here, my loyalty is always, and always will be, to FSM. Without this forum and magazine, I wouldn't have the recognition as a modeler that I have enjoyed thus far,. So, you won't find me migrating to any other sites just for the "social" aspect of it--though I've got NO PROBLEM with people who either have, or do.

Personally, I've been on a complete tear since 2010, having moved in down with my fiancee', Jenn, own to North Carolina, and doing toooooooo much traveling and work with my "job", and frankly, it's been hard to commit to any project that has taken more than a few weeks to complete; ergo, my recent spate of 1/72 builds. (Newest one, a Sturmtiger, coming any minute now....)

Frankly, I have to admit to being a little surprised that anyone would quit blogging or posting because of criticism, no matter how bad, unless you were really convinced that your model was just a pile of junk--and we all know how your models shine, Andy. Please give it a second thought. Your insecurity about your impressive level of skill and finishing is frankly, "rediculous", as you yourself put it. If someone doesn't like it, screw 'em! (Don't kick me off the forum, TIm--it's well intended!! ) I have always considered you an exemplary modeler, but have lamented your lack of sharing your blogs/build, Please reconsider.

The software change WAS a BIG PITA. And annoying. I have to admit that it put me off for a while. However, it's not that hard to figure out, but I HATE that you can't edit a post once you've made it. Wish they'd figure that one out.

I have to say that I've checked out other forums, and, in my opinion, none of them seem to have had,or have, the "personnel problem" that FSM has had over the years. Perhaps that goes with being the nation's largest, most visible, most accessible website and forum? Maybe instead of blaming th moderators, we ought to ask ourselves why we have so many of these brew-ups? Why the incivility and provocation that has undoubtedly happened in the past here? Maybe we just get more of the anti-social or ornery types by default? Some of the other forums are definitely more discerning in their membership requirements and "professionalism". WHY? ANd does that work to keep out the malcontents? Lots to ruminate upon..... I do have to say that Manny was indeed a close friend of mine of a long time, but even I saw him go from being more of a valuable modeler on this site (whose dioramas and figures were among the best ever) to being more of a provocateur and jester. Why? I don't know. I'm sad to hear that he finally got the ban, but it was a long, long time coming. I can't say I'm surprised. Will that make me run from the forum? No. There's always new blood, and the "old blood" here is still here, frankly. I was genuinely surprised at how many people weighed in on my Leopard build just recently. Hey man; this forum is what you make it. I don't blame the moderators for wanting to keep order; after all, the rules are posted at the door.

Anyway, blah, blah, blah. Heavy Arty's response made me laugh. I hope to have enough time at the bench this Spring to start a good old fashioned "involved" project. One thing's for sure--you'll see it HERE first.

Hi Doog 

I like your post and you are missed. just FYI you can edit your posts or pics with the little pencil at the bottom of the page..  if I read your post correctly .

I use it all the time.

rock on bro'

tread 

edit... forgot to mention the 1/72nd Leopard     .....NICE !

Real G, I don't think kit bashing or rivet counting caused the last hoop-la. I find that doesn't happen here much...good thing.

the doog

Sheeesh. I had no idea. I guess I've been away too long

Yeah, you and me both Karl. 

I haven't been spending a lot of time in the Armor forum, but I had slowly noticed the absence of many of the long time members.  I hadn't realized scratchmod, wing_nut, dupes, just to name a few and gone to another site.  Too bad because I've been here close to 7 years now and this has become like a second home to me.  Its sad to see so many familiar names disappear from this site, but I'm heartened by the fact that they've simply moved to another site that's open to new members.  I may pop over to that other site just to say HI to the members, but I'm not leaving FSM.   I'm not the most prolific poster or builder, but I plan on staying here for a good long time.  . 

The changes that have occurred over the last few years haven't bothered me much...where I work change is the name of the game, so I guess I'm used to such things.  Same as people coming and going... at work we have so many new faces coming in and then just as quickly leaving;  and even old timers sometimes pack up and leave.  You kind of get used to it....

I agree with you that maybe we have to take a look at ourselves and ask why these things happen.  Hopefully the members that have weathered all the turbulences and changes will learn from it and become wiser, making the FSM forums a better place.

Anyway I intend to read more threads, post more responses, answer more questions, build more models and buy less kits!   

ok, forget the buy less kits....that will never happen!!

Peace out treadheads!

treadwell

Hi Doog 

I like your post and you are missed. just FYI you can edit your posts or pics with the little pencil at the bottom of the page..  if I read your post correctly .

I use it all the time.

rock on bro'

tread 

edit... forgot to mention the 1/72nd Leopard     .....NICE !

 

Yep, what tread said....

I do it all the tiem to correct my spleling erorrs...

Real G

If your'e not having fun, hang up the X-Acto and take up stamp collecting or something.

Trouble, i wouldn't call it a mass exodus. A small number seem to have left this site for good. A few are visiting much less and a some more, includeing myself, have simply found another site to add to our list but still visit here regulally.And things seem to have picked back up again and plenty of new members are joining. So its really all been blown out of proprotion.

Ernst, most of the guys that left were aircraft builders. Dupes hasn't been posting here much for a couple of years. As far as i know, Wing Nut is still around, and you won't see any of those 3 or any of the other pure armour guys on that other site. In fact, you will find very little armour there full stop.

Real G, this had nothing to do with people pointing out errors in kits. And some people are interested in historical accuracy, just as people are interested in finding out how to make there kits better. Of course, some can tell you that in a very un polite way. If somone nicely points out errors in the kit, you don't have to follow the advcice, just say thank you but i am happy with it as it is.

Teadwell, thanks for that heads-up about the editing capability! That's a relief to know!

Thanks for all....

You too,Ernest!

Teadwell, thanks for that heads-up about the editing capability! That's a relief to know!

doog, in March I will be 80yrs old and I even I could figure that out

Its good to see you back and posting!.

My remarks above are what a forum should be about,  'space to have a laugh' as well as being serious.

My own builds are always open to criticism simply because my skills are not as good as many others but I don't go off and sulk about that, I carry on and I'm happy enough, ( I think )

However as many people have already said, DON'T BE NASTY in your remarks.

With regards to the other forum, which has been mentioned, I do post on that one and have met-up with others from this forum; but I am still here and will be whilst I am still modeling.

This is still a very good forum with some great builders whom I respect and welcome their advice even if I don't follow it. ( damned if I can get this weathering and chipping sorted out )...cheers....Kenny

woah, wha'd I miss??

Bish

Ernst, most of the guys that left were aircraft builders. Dupes hasn't been posting here much for a couple of years. As far as i know, Wing Nut is still around, and you won't see any of those 3 or any of the other pure armour guys on that other site. In fact, you will find very little armour there full stop.

Real G, this had nothing to do with people pointing out errors in kits. And some people are interested in historical accuracy, just as people are interested in finding out how to make there kits better. Of course, some can tell you that in a very un polite way. If somone nicely points out errors in the kit, you don't have to follow the advcice, just say thank you but i am happy with it as it is.

Not sure of the referral but the "other" site was formed by an armor only regular from here, scratchmod, wbill has become a moderator at that site, and a large number of old FSM armor regulars are there.

Now with that said like spacepacker, I visit and post on both sites. It is interesting to watch what happens on each site.

This site has had a big influx of newbies. There was a period where a post could last on a page, untouched for 5 days. Many of the "old" timers like myself or doog can remember a time that posts would run off the page in less than a day constantly.

As my younger brother...by another mother Heavy Arty said....blah, blah, blah

OK...I covered the all the bases...time to get off the ammo box

Rounds Complete!!

redleg12

Bish

Ernst, most of the guys that left were aircraft builders. Dupes hasn't been posting here much for a couple of years. As far as i know, Wing Nut is still around, and you won't see any of those 3 or any of the other pure armour guys on that other site. In fact, you will find very little armour there full stop.

Real G, this had nothing to do with people pointing out errors in kits. And some people are interested in historical accuracy, just as people are interested in finding out how to make there kits better. Of course, some can tell you that in a very un polite way. If somone nicely points out errors in the kit, you don't have to follow the advcice, just say thank you but i am happy with it as it is.

Not sure of the referral but the "other" site was formed by an armor only regular from here, scratchmod, wbill has become a moderator at that site, and a large number of old FSM armor regulars are there.

 

Then i guess we are talking about two different sites. The one that some guys have joined in the last couple of months is SP&R.

Bish

redleg12

Bish

Ernst, most of the guys that left were aircraft builders. Dupes hasn't been posting here much for a couple of years. As far as i know, Wing Nut is still around, and you won't see any of those 3 or any of the other pure armour guys on that other site. In fact, you will find very little armour there full stop.

Real G, this had nothing to do with people pointing out errors in kits. And some people are interested in historical accuracy, just as people are interested in finding out how to make there kits better. Of course, some can tell you that in a very un polite way. If somone nicely points out errors in the kit, you don't have to follow the advcice, just say thank you but i am happy with it as it is.

Not sure of the referral but the "other" site was formed by an armor only regular from here, scratchmod, wbill has become a moderator at that site, and a large number of old FSM armor regulars are there.

 

Then i guess we are talking about two different sites. The one that some guys have joined in the last couple of months is SP&R.

Bish,Its   www.modelerssocialclub.proboards.com    I'm over there and it's good to catch up with the guys,but I have no ax to grind here,so I post here and there along with armorama,and modelersalliance

They all have something to offer.

Tojo72

Bish

redleg12

Bish

Ernst, most of the guys that left were aircraft builders. Dupes hasn't been posting here much for a couple of years. As far as i know, Wing Nut is still around, and you won't see any of those 3 or any of the other pure armour guys on that other site. In fact, you will find very little armour there full stop.

Real G, this had nothing to do with people pointing out errors in kits. And some people are interested in historical accuracy, just as people are interested in finding out how to make there kits better. Of course, some can tell you that in a very un polite way. If somone nicely points out errors in the kit, you don't have to follow the advcice, just say thank you but i am happy with it as it is.

Not sure of the referral but the "other" site was formed by an armor only regular from here, scratchmod, wbill has become a moderator at that site, and a large number of old FSM armor regulars are there.

 

Then i guess we are talking about two different sites. The one that some guys have joined in the last couple of months is SP&R.

 

Bish,Its   www.modelerssocialclub.proboards.com    I'm over there and it's good to catch up with the guys,but I have no ax to grind here,so I post here and there along with armorama,and modelersalliance

They all have something to offer.

My view exactly. I am always checking out other forums when i come across them. Usually i am not keen for one reason or another. But when i do find one, no harm in having your fingirs in more than one pie.I will check that one out.

I do like SP&R, though i am getting a bit annoyed at the number of people joining and annoucing the death of FSM, even thoguh they are still posting here themselves.

I hear you Bish,no need to trash any site,if it doesn't suit you just move on

Being a new member I guess I missed it here but I saw it on a couple other (non-modelling) hobby forums. Things generally happen one of two ways: 1 - People who don't like to follow rules repeatedly break the rules and eventually the mods give up and they get their way. 2 - same as 1, except the mods don't give in and those people have a tantrum and leave with a bunch of other members. Either way it impacts members and their participation. The answer seems pretty simple to me. If you can't behave yourself on a forum then at least be mature enough to leave without incident.

I like FSM and I wish it was more active, but choosing between that and being on an "anything goes" forum, I'll take FSM as it currently is. If I want to lose friends over political opinions or listen to an endless stream of rants I'll get on Facebook. If I want to look at semi-naked women there's no end to places I can go.

Of course that's just my opinion and I said it without swearing too!

Hi guys,

Imo It's natural progression. I used to be into rifle hunting big time before I started modelling and used to use a large hunting forum. I popped back there the other day to put some old kit up for sale and I didn't know anyone there.

People change, they change their preferences, they find things they like better (be it a new forum or a new hobby) and basically just move on - luckily there's always a lot more people wanting to fill the shoes of the guys who leave us! We need to nurture and help these new guys to help with the growth of the site and the hobby.

I'm a big user of two other sites but FSM has always been my FIRM favourite. There's a truly great bunch of guys on here!

I don't think I'd be modelling now if I hadn't found this site three years ago when I started out!

Ben

 Came back to look around and say hi .

Carl

Very well said, Joe. (Novembergray).

I post on three forums, this being one of them. I don't have time for any more involvement, so I picked the three that I enjoy the most. Aside from content, the participants are what makes a website worth hanging out at.

And that's all I have to say about that. :)

Doesn't look as slow around here as it did a few months ago.

"Lifer"

Tony lee

I'm still here, but not as much - actually spending more time building a model,

iraqiwildman

I'm still here, but not as much - actually spending more time building a model,

I like to do most of my posting  while I'm at work,this way I have more time to build when i'm at home

Tojo72

iraqiwildman

I'm still here, but not as much - actually spending more time building a model,

 

 

I like to do most of my posting  while I'm at work,this way I have more time to build when i'm at home

I am doing the same thing right now.

iraqiwildman

Tojo72

iraqiwildman

I'm still here, but not as much - actually spending more time building a model,

 

 

I like to do most of my posting  while I'm at work,this way I have more time to build when i'm at home

I am doing the same thing right now.

I used to do that........

tigerman

iraqiwildman

Tojo72

iraqiwildman

I'm still here, but not as much - actually spending more time building a model,

 

 

I like to do most of my posting  while I'm at work,this way I have more time to build when i'm at home

I am doing the same thing right now.

I used to do that........

Eric,fired for  violating company's internet policy or recently retired ?

I make posts from work all the time. Oh, wait ...

  When I'm home I would rather be building.LOL

The way my building is going lately, maybe I should post more and go back to work and use their internet

Argh, work gets in the way of SO much........

Guess where I am now. ;)

Work sure does get in the way of good modeling time, but I try to use work time to reseach and buy stuff online. I bought a FSM magazine from April 1995 on ebay yesterday at work. All of $3.50 delivered.

I got a 5-speed Small Shop PE bending tool delivered to work today that I found for a great deal on ebay. Sitting at my desk playing with it right now - Boss is off this afternoon.

Also got Dragon's new T34/76 Model 1943 "Formochka" with commander's cupola deliver, so I am in modeling heaven this afternoon.

Hmmmm. Methinks the hopes reports of FSM's decline have been MUCH exaggerated, from what I've seen in just the week or so since I've been back here.

yer modeling roadies and groupies are always here doog.LOL

detailfreak

yer modeling roadies and groupies are always here doog.LOL

I dunno. This thread has only been one of like three that's sent me an email alert in the past two days...and it's far and away leading. Part of that's me just not posting here as much. But still...

Whenever I check in on recent discussions things definitely seem slower than they have been in times past.

Meh, I dunno. I think that maybe now there's a slight difference between the quality of posts and what used to be the sheer quantity. Honestly--I don't notice much of a difference at all.

And there IS something funky with the email alert thing. I've definitely noticed that too. It seems that if someone doesn't reply strictly to YOUR posting, sometimes the alerts don't seem to come through. I've noticed that sometimes I've missed 3-4 posts. Weird. It must be a bug in the new system.

DoogsATX

I dunno. This thread has only been one of like three that's sent me an email alert in the past two days...and it's far and away leading. Part of that's me just not posting here as much. But still...

Whenever I check in on recent discussions things definitely seem slower than they have been in times past.

and the band played on,

"Bish" Holy Cow! couldn't have said it better if I'd done it myself so... let me just say I agree. I actually am happy there is a moderator; sounds Orwellian I know however, seems necessary due to a general lack of civility and courtesy. It's unfortunate, but there it is. More's the pity.

Holly cow !?

is that a pejorative comment?

  I sure I'd be offended if I knew what it meant

Seriously level heads and civil posts usually win out. The others that are not satisfied are better off on their own site where they are with their own kind,  fussin' an fightin'   their hearts content.

plasticsurgeon

Im new here and havent posted much but ive done alot of browsing and i like the forum and things im learning just reading old post

Welcome friend. Hope you stay awhile. Please feel free to ask questions and please post your work.

Bish---another . You summed it up quite perfectly.

I have been watching this thread with interest, I have all but quit posting due to censorship, and before we whip the horse that it is their web site, I pay to keep it running with my magizine dues so I have some ownership here also, my censored threads were of a new kit that was poorly designed, but had an add in the magizine. So here is FSM delima work with the model companys, or the people who pay for the Mag. they choose the model company. so I have come to the conclusion when my subscription is up it will not be reviewed. FSM has run its time, with the internet I can have reviews of new kits in 2 days where it  takes 2 to 3 months for FSM to run a review. So enjoy FSM I choose to move on....

Thats an interesting comment Sherman. I have seen plenty of posts making negative comments about a certain build, Dragon for example often come in for flak due to its instructions. But i have never known of a post to be deleted because of it.

I am not trying to question you, but are you sure there wasn't another reason for it.

The thread I started, 2 of them was on the Lindburg Japenese 1/72 submarines when they were realeased. Just got done clearing my settings By Guys....

Dorkfsh, welcome to the site. I hope you do participate. I've noticed a lot of new names of late, so they in time, could be the next wave of forum participants. You never know. 

I don't understand the angst.

The old O&E discussions were, in my opinion, mostly centered around social and political topics which injected unnecessary controversy.

Discussions about models, techniques and tools provide a productive focus for long term membership.

I've witnessed a gradual increase in forum participation around here and expect it to continue so long as forum rules are obeyed.

Let's be honest, it's always been a very select  few whom had a bone to pick. They like to push buttons and continually like to see how far they could go. I loved Manny as much as the next guy, but he continually played with fire and sometimes I think he did it on purpose.

For the most part, the vast majority of the members have been fair and good to one another, but like any family, there will always be squabbling.

It is nice to have the Ready room forum,it's nice to be able to talk,movies,games,sports,vacations,pets,and so forth.It doesn't have to be controversial,just a little insight into our other interests.

True................and so long as members obey the forum rules, no problem exists.

I believe vast majority of the forum members are here to see, to learn, provide gentle realistic criticism or enthusing encouragement.  I personally am all to often   left speechless in amazement at whats produced and how far I can yet to go. .

As for the "button pushers"  or those with an agenda that includes the bashing of the site/magazine for real or imagined "wrongs"; They are certainly initialed to a personal opinion and to express it.  But to try to change the whole system to suit their own interests, with diatribes, semi- slanders and accusations are not doing themselves or us  a favor.  Then to finally  go stomping out of the forum declaring " your gonna be sorry once I'm gone".  I'm sure they are correct, for some of us that "know them", for a time.

However with the lack of their "static" may allow other or newer members find their voice and provide a value to us all.

The above is my personal option and is not meant inflame or cast dispersions but with so many world events that drag on us so; I find the fun, frustration, irritation, satisfaction, of modeling a deserved respite, as are the friends and mentors on the forum.

 Model On. 

Wow Dorkfish you've lurked a while now if you still remember 'ol odds and ends. Good to have you here. But I dont' agree totally, not everyone thats here or been here had the same interests in mind you stated-glue and plastic. Some were here to cause trouble and push limits, totally un-model related. (which can be fine but it spilled over and started causing trouble for the forum as a whole). I hope thats over now.

Before this goes somewhere no one wants, lets all avoid referring to each other with pejoratives, whether specifically or in general. It is the expectation on the Forum that members treat each other with respect.

We all come from different walks of life, but we have to figure out how to navigate without taking umbrage at things that are written without the intent of offending, and understanding that sometimes what we write can have unintended consequences. There are lots of people reading these threads, and we don't know them. Thus, a certain amount of consideration is in order.

Our members are a great crowd. Everyone who is here wants to be here, otherwise why post? Thank you guys for making this place as welcoming as it is, as civil as it is, and as brimming with great modeling advice as it is. No where else can you find the depth of knowledge that you can right here. And that isn't because of anyone else but you.

As for this thread, it has moved beyond its original title, I will rename it and relocate it in the Ready Room. It's really not appropriate for the Armor forum.

Tim

 Tim thank you

I have never had such a popular thread as this one,LOL

Things look like they are moving a bit quicker on here now aswell which is nice to see. This is my birth place modelling wise and i will always pop in.Andy.

And--you sure hit a home run with this post---now get to blogging and posting something of your current build here!!

Come on, man! We're waiting!

Definitely miss seeing your work here Bodge!!

I have been doing allsorts but my latest work is a figure in 1/16 which i have started to post in the figure section. Here are some builds you might not have seen.

They all look great Bodge! I really like the rust bucket car!!

Some awesome work there, Andy---your imagination is your greatest asset!

Some nice themes and inventive ideas going on in some of them!

Great work!

Here's a funny thing, and Doog you would appreciate this.

I have never seen so may "zombie threads" in my eight years here.

For those who don't know that's a response to a thread that's say a year or so old.

What that means is that internet searches are bringing people in and as new members they don't realize that they are responding to an old post.

Cool that and lots of new members.

Great stuff there Bodge- I love the 'Lest We Forget' dio. Just beautiful work and quite thoughtful.

GMorrison, well, that's fine by me. There's a lot of good work and topics here that are chock-full of good stuff, and new members all the time!

But lest anyone be deceived, there's also a LOT of goof new stuff happening too!

Good stuff, Bodge! Great to see you back in full force!

That's class, Mr. Kidwell.

Doog, when you say there's GOOF new stuff too, you must mean my models...