Military/Fashion Protocol Question

GMorrison

I was at an event yesterday and a guy who I know is not a member of, was wearing an ICE cap. Now, isn't that sort of illegal? 

Yes it is. IF... it is an official uniform item. Any clothing item that is marked with an agency insignia and used by their personnel in the course of official duties for recognition purposes as a law enforcement officer is a controlled item to be sold only to individuals with that agency’s ID. 

I was at an event yesterday and a guy who I know is not a member of, was wearing an ICE cap. Now, isn't that sort of illegal?

I was wearing a US Open 2000 ball cap, but I don't think anyone mistook my white butt for Tiger, who I watched win by 15 strokes at said event.

As a Marine in the 3rd Assault Amphibian Battalion for 5 years, I honestly see no problem with it as long as you're not trying to insinuate that you yourself have actually served, which by what you've said, you did quite the opposite.

The ones that burn me up are the ones that actively try to steal valor.

I got a ships cap when I went on a dependants cruise. They gave one to everybody.    Wearing fatigues with no ratings is also fine.

Same with civilian appearal with the branch of service logo, you are showing support although you were never offical part of the service.

What I wouldn't do is wear any part of a dress uniform, actual unit patches or identification, ratings, or any service awards, that, I feel, is crossing the line and should be reserved to those who took the oath and served.  

It's an interesting discussion in a broader sense.

For instance, if I wear a Stanford football hat, I'm a fan (which I am). If I wear a Stanford logo hat, I'm a grad (which I am not). If I wear my old Stanford Indians logo hat, well that's another story.

No definitely not trolling. Blacksheep and I have known one another for quite awhile here. I like to think that we are on good terms. I am just putting the same basic situation into a different context. Clothing as opposed to screen names. Especially when a stranger is involved. 

stikpusher

 

 

GMorrison

 

 

BlackSheepTwoOneFour

So I don't care what anyone thinks or say. It's your money, you bought it because you think it's cool to show your support and wear it. End of story.

 

 

 

 

So I'm not trying to provoke you or anything, but that's an attitude that seems to discount the concern of the OP. I see you're a Black Sheep, but that might not be what he needs.

 

 

Bill

 

 

 

 

Now there is another valid point. 

A new guy here just may come to the conclusion from the screen name that he is or was a veteran of that unit. If that new guy was a veteran of VMF/VMA/VMFA-214 and finds out that he is not, the new guy could potentially take some offense- why is one calling them self this when they never were one? Not taking either side, but raising awareness.

 

Hi;

 Number one , You work for the Navy i.e. D.O.D. A Generic navy hat is Not incorrect . I have all types including Corps and navy caps from ships and units I served with and on . I also served on some of those ships as a Marine and a Sailor too . I wear them all and thank the younger bucks for being there .

 Number two , Wear what you want , Just be ready to defend your choice to disgruntled old Salts , Leathernecks or Army guys . Oh Army Air Force and Air force too . Although I don't know what they would be disgruntled for . That's their problem , Not yours .

If you wera a Navy or Corps ballcap you are , as I see it honoring me just putting it on your head !  T.B.

GMorrison

 

 

BlackSheepTwoOneFour

So I don't care what anyone thinks or say. It's your money, you bought it because you think it's cool to show your support and wear it. End of story.

 

 

 

 

So I'm not trying to provoke you or anything, but that's an attitude that seems to discount the concern of the OP. I see you're a Black Sheep, but that might not be what he needs.

 

 

Bill

 

Now there is another valid point. 

A new guy here just may come to the conclusion from the screen name that he is or was a veteran of that unit. If that new guy was a veteran of VMF/VMA/VMFA-214 and finds out that he is not, the new guy could potentially take some offense- why is one calling them self this when they never were one? Not taking either side, but raising awareness.

BlackSheepTwoOneFour

No provocation taken. Nor my screen name has anything to do with being a rebel. I just like the Black Sheep Squadron. Just stating the fact one shouldn’t worry about offending others by wearing military related clothing/ball caps. There is enough PC as it is in this world. Choosing whether or not to wear certain clothes shouldn’t be examined under the microscope nor crucified for the sake of not offending others. 

 

 

 

Just to be clear,I certainly don't stand with the PC crowd,there is so much deviation from common sense these days.My original question was for guys who might have served to get their thoughts on the matter and what was considered protocol.I was not concerned about offending some person,activist,peacenik who might be offended by my the act of wearing something military.It was strictly about vets and whether or not it could be construed as trying to be something I wasnt.

Cheers and thanks for all the input 

No provocation taken. Nor my screen name has anything to do with being a rebel. I just like the Black Sheep Squadron. Just stating the fact one shouldn’t worry about offending others by wearing military related clothing/ball caps. There is enough PC as it is in this world. Choosing whether or not to wear certain clothes shouldn’t be examined under the microscope nor crucified for the sake of not offending others. 

BlackSheepTwoOneFour

So I don't care what anyone thinks or say. It's your money, you bought it because you think it's cool to show your support and wear it. End of story.

 

Bill

Considering just about 90% of the population where you live aren't "military fashion police" per say when it comes to wearing anything military related - be it you served or a civilian employee for the military. So I don't care what anyone thinks or say. It's your money, you bought it because you think it's cool to show your support and wear it. End of story.

I'm a cyclist, and this topic brings something to mind.  I have a US Navy cycling jersey, but I hardly ever wear it because although I work for the Navy, I never served in the Navy.  I'm just a civilian employee.  It's not an official uniform or anything, and I bought it in a regular bike shop so it's clearly sold to the general public, but it still doesn't feel right.  I don't want people to think I'm pretending to be a sailor.

As an ex navy man as long as you don't wear a uniform or make people think you served i see no stolen valor.

This thread brought to mind a funny story from a simpler time.  Growing up, I had a friend and fellow modeler who was stationed at an Air national guard base.  He invited me out one summer day for a tour, knowing I was an aviation geek.  I put on my camo painters cap I had gotten from a recruiter at a career fair and drove out to the base.  The guard at the gate goes to wave me through.  I stopped and corrected him, and he called my friend to escort me.  No big deal then, almost 30 years ago, but today, I can't imaging the storm that would have occurred if i had accepted the wave through.  As far as wearing caps and what not, I say go for it.  My dad served in Korea and has a Korea vet cap which he proudly wears all the time.  I've been mistaken for a vet myself a couple of times, wearing souvenier shirts from the Air Force academy.  So long as you are honest that you are honoring your dad, so be it.  No body should have any issues.

John

Now there is an interesting point- re enactors. Wearing a “historical” uniform of a bygone era, obviously that individual is not serving currently. At least to anyone with knowledge of current uniforms. (Now if the US Army goes back to ‘Pinks & Greens’ as the current SMA wants to do that could become an issue) And in the cases that you mention Willys, it boils down to intent and how one reacts when approached. 

Which brought back a memory. In 2004 when my Guard unit was federalized under Operation Enduring Freedom for deployment, we were first sent to Camp Roberts CA for a couple weeks. During that first weekend there was some sort of re enactment event there, and for some reason, they were feeding those guys with us in the chow hall. It was kind of funny to see guys in WWII field uniforms amongst all the real GIs in BDUs...

I do a fair amount of reenacting with two groups, both are sticklers for accuracy and proper respect. I have a named 20th AF set of Class A's that I wear for "formal" occasions and a set of 15 Corps field dress for "normal" events where I have my Jeep. Wearing either into a restaurant or similar location can be interesting. "Thank you for your service" is very common and I always indicate back that I'm a reenactor, usually doesn't make any difference to the person. Several times the waitress has given me the veterans discount, which I always decline, except a couple times the manager has insisted saying, "you're honoring the WWII vets and we would like to do the same."

Most interesting time though was when I was invited to a formal Naval retirement ceremony in the chapel at Valley Forge on Veterans Day. Our group had been asked by the park to put on a military timeline from Rev War to Korea and I knew it was going to be very difficult to change before the retirement event, so asked the honoree if it would be proper, and would he mind, if I wore my WWII AAF Class A's. He checked with his CO, and came back with "absolutely." Sitting in the chapel with a fair number of Navy brass in full dress was quite an experience. I was called out by the MC as representing the WWII vets there on Veterans Day, made me stand a little taller...

I understand that. BUT... if bought in gift shop say USS Intrepid Air Land and Sea Museum in NYC, it's a sovenier. 

The only ones I won't wear nor buy are the ones that are labelled Veterans with the ship, armed service, conflcit event (Vietnam, Korea, etc...) squad/squadron for where they served.

Everything else is fair game. That's just my opinion.

BlackSheepTwoOneFour

I don't follow any protocol of wearing military ballcaps or t-shirts/sweatshirts. If I like it, I wear it. End of story.

 

yes, but it can lead to confrontations at times with grumpy old veterans. Unit shirts and caps can be a touchy area. Some guys can have a chip on their shoulder. 

I don't follow any protocol of wearing military ballcaps or t-shirts/sweatshirts. If I like it, I wear it. End of story.

I have several from the ships that came to Miami years ago and purchased their hats at the ship’s gift shop.

My favorite one is the USS Saratoga. When she anchored off The Port of Miami the Navy hosted LEO Appreciation  Day so us being  cops my buddy and I took the ferry to the ship. Later in the afternoon the seas got pretty rough and it was announced that it was too dangerous for ferry operations so a  large group of civilians spent the night on the ship. The Navy was feeding us every hour! My buddy and me made friends with a Tomcat pilot who took us to different parts of the ship off limits to visitors. We even got to see his Tomcat parked below. The bunks were very tight but I slept like a baby.

I also don’t wear the hats but have them in my closet.

Tojo - I served, I see nothing other than your respecting and honoring your Fathers service with that cap.

That you saw fit to do that says it all,  if someone does say thank you, your answer of "it was my Dad's ship, he served on it," would surely be taken as your remembering Dad. I'd say that's something very nice, I thank you for doing it.

Patrick

It's a good topic Tojo.

My late FIL wore ballcaps all the time that he got for a lot of various things. Everything from Knight of Columbus to Reno Air Races, a bunch of other stuff.

I tend towards Baseball Teams.

Someone once mistook me for Mike Krukow, but otherwise no issues.

When I see people with hats like those usually I automatically think that they had been assigned to that ship.  No problem.  I wear a hat for the vietnam war and have a few pins on it to indicate my role in the war.  Notably a M-16, Security Police badge, police qual. badge and one with the Air Force emblem.  When I see someone with a A.F. hat I might ask them what their job was just in the hopes of talking to someone with a common background.  It's similar to running into someone with a hat or shirt from the state your were from.

It's only when I find someone wearing things to make themselves look like they were in and involved and it's obvious from what they are saying that are faking it to make themselves look big or for private gain that most vets would say something.  

Seeing how many museums sell such caps to the general public, and if you’re not trying to pass yourself off as a veteran, I’d say no harm, no foul. If someone does the ‘thank you for your service’ bit while you’re wearing the cap, just quickly respond that your father served on that ship. 

A few months ago on my way to a local eatery I saw a guy wearing an 82nd Airborne shirt as we walked towards one another. Being a former paratrooper myself, I immediately sounded off to him with an “all the way!”. He looked at me confused until I pointed to the logo on his shirt. He then said, ”that’s my brother who was there”. No offense taken on either side.

I wear Flying Tiger shirts now, since my son is in the Air Force and assigned to that Wing. If anybody asks, I tell them he is serving there, and I bought the shirt while visiting his base. Of course it probably has some folks scratching their heads if they don’t ask and notice the jump wings tattoo on my forearm...

perhaps you could add a “in memory of (dad’s name and rate) USN year X to year Y” embroidered on the rear.

   No problem, your honoring your father. Those hats could be easily purchased on a "Tiger Cruise", if one wanted. Your an honest man Tojo and I don't think your being disrespectful.