Ship Trivia Quiz

Sure thing, Duke.

There are probably several ways to handle that request, but one is to look at some photos in Navsource.  Remember, we can't link directly to Navsource photos from here, so I will take you to a page and try to describe the correct picture to look at.

Original rig (5" gun, ASROC, no CIWS or Harpoon)
Look at the page for O'Bannon (DD-987), http://www.navsource.org/archives/05/987.htm, second image down from the top. 

 Late rig with Tomahawk Armored Box Launcher:
See Leftwich (DD-984) http://www.navsource.org/archives/05/984.htm, the photo marked "July 1986, location unknown", is best to see the ABL, as well as all the other post 1985 photos.  The Comte DeGrasse (DD-974) page shows Comte DeGrasse along withbattleship Iowa and DD Deyo, where both DDs have the ABL.

 Late rig with Vertical Launching System (VLS)
See O'Bannon again http://www.navsource.org/archives/05/987.htm, and look at the fifth image down from the top to see the VLS farm that replaced the ASROC launcher and see the CIWS gun.  Also Stump (DD-978) http://www.navsource.org/archives/05/978.htm has a great VLS image in the middle of the list.

Also, there are good photos of the Radford (DD-968 ), with her mast enclosure at http://www.navsource.org/archives/05/968.htm

 All ships got the Harpoon canisters in mid-career. 
One excellent photo is on the page for Cushing (DD-985) at http://www.navsource.org/archives/05/985.htm in the middle of the page, marked "040506-N-7586B-085, Gulf of Oman May 6 2004".  You can see the Harpoon launchers especially well here.

I hope that helps,
  Rick

Ok, I finally got one that may trip a few of you fine folks up.

What is the name of the ship that has written on it in Latin

HONI SOIT QUI MAL Y PENSE "Evil to him who evil thinks"   AND

DIEU ET MON DROIT "God and my duty".

DO NOT GOOGLE THIS!, Thats Cheating

Big Jake wrote:

Ok, I finally got one that may trip a few of you fine folks up. What is the name of the ship that has written on it in Latin HONI SOIT QUI MAL Y PENSE "Evil to him who evil thinks"   AND DIEU ET MON DROIT "God and my duty".   DO NOT GOOGLE THIS!, Thats Cheating

If Mr. DDP59 doesn't come back in a day or two to say whether his question was answered satisfactorily or not, let's just go ahead and move on with the answer to Jake's question.

Jake?  Did Searat provide the correct answer to your question?  If so, then Mr. Searat will have the floor.

ok... quick and easy.

De Ruyter's flagship was the Zeven Provincien, representing the seven provinces of the Dutch Republic.

I like this admiral's thread...

What was the flagship of the "unfortunate Admiral Byng" at the battle causing his misfortune and the basis for her name?

Hmmm.  "The basis for her name."...

HMS Monarch was formerly Monarque, a prize taken in 1747.   So she was originally named after a different country's monarch.  Is that what you're getting at?

Whoops.  I always thought he was shot on the quarterdeck of his flagship.  Guess I need to read that book by Dudley Pope - "At Twelve Mr. Byng was Shot".

 At any rate, it turns out that HMS Ramilies was named to commemorate the victory of the Duke of Marlborough over the French in 1706.  Ramilies was a 2nd rate,  ex-Royal Katherine, renamed in 1706, wrecked in 1760.

Ramilies was the answer that I was looking for.  

Getting into the trivial trivia... Byng's Ramilies was actually the 2nd  of six vessels to be named for the Duke's victory. The ex-Royal Katherine was broken up in 1741 and replaced with a 1741 Estalishment 2nd rate. The name was passed on through the sailing ship period to a 74 gun 3rd rate, launched in in 1763, and another 74, launched in 1785 (which wasn't broken up until 1850!). During the steam period, the name was passed on to a Royal Sovereign class 13.5" battleship in 1892 and then to a Revenge Class 15" Super-dreadnought in 1916.

Rick, the floor is yours.

Hmm.  That's interesting.  I was quoting (should I have cited my reference?  we don't seem to do that here usually) from "British Warship Names", by Capt T.D. Manning & Cdr C.F. Walker, 1959.  But after I posted it, I found nearly the same answer in the dreaded wikipedia, excepting that it added a nugget that the ship was "...taken apart and rebuilt in 1740..."

 So the Name Lists for the Royal Navy that I've seen don't grade this 1740 vessel as the second ship of the name.  Where did you see it written that way?

At any rate, it sounds like our beloved US Frigate Constellation, a 38 gun frigate parked in a drydock in 1856, taken apart, and some of the materials used for a 22 gun sloop that was built in the adjoining yard, also named Constellation.

I'll work up a question this evening.

I was using David Lyon's The Sailing Navy List, All the Ships of the Royal Navy, Built, Purchased and Captured, 1688-1860, first published in 1993.  He lists Royal Katherine/Ramilies as being broken up in 1741. According to Lyons, the 2nd Ramilies had her keel laid in 1743 per the 1741 establishment and was launched in 1749.

Double checking with Brian Lavery's The Ship of the Line Volume I first published in 1983, he lists the 2nd Ramilies as a new ship, launched in 1749 under "Ship List VIII, 1741-1755", but under "Rebuilds, pre-establishment, 1697-1706", he lists the Royal Katherine with a note "rebuilt in 1749". There is no reference to the vessels in the text.  So there may be a correlation with the Constellation: the new Ramilies was 8 feet longer, 4 feet wider, and 2 feet deeper at 1689 tons vs. 1395 tons for Royal Katherine.

Three ships that were started during WWII, finished afterward, and all later remodeled to add an entirely new dimension to their war-fighting capability.

And all three had names that recalled various Anglo-Dutch Wars.

What ships?

Three ships that meet the criteria are:

HNLMS De Zeven Provincien - Dutch/German/Dutch/Peruvian cruiser

      -   started 1939, first commision 1947, transfered 1973, scrapped 1999

HNLMS De Ruyter - Dutch/German/Dutch/Peruvian cruiser

       -   same as above but... still commissioned!!!

HMS Camperdown - British Battle Class Destroyer

       - Commissioned June 1945, scrapped 1970 

Well, not all what I had in mind, but that's nothing new here, is it?

But how do you rationalize these with "...all later remodeled to add an entirely new dimension to their war-fighting capability."?

 HNLMS De Zeven Provincien - remodeled from an all-gun cruiser to a ...?

 HNLMS De Ruyter - - remodeled from an all-gun cruiser to a ...?

 HMS Camperdown - - remodeled from a standard destroyer to a ...?

Just curious  

HNLMS De Zeven Provincien - remodeled from an all-gun cruiser to a ...?

The HNLMS De Zeven Provinciën (C802) was a De Zeven Provinciën class cruiser with eight 152 mm cannons in double towers, 8 × 57 mm and 8 × 40 mm machine guns. The rear tower was replaced in 1962 with a RIM-2 Terrier SAM system. She was 185.7 m long, had a beam of 17.25 m and a draft of 6.85 m. She displaced 12,250 t and could achieve a speed of 32.2 knots. She had a crew of 957.^[1]

Construction started in 1939 as the HNLMS Kijkduin, but was interrupted by World War II. She was renamed to HNLMS Eendracht in 1940 and HNLMS De Ruyter in 1945. Her sister ship was launched in 1944 as the HNLMS De Zeven Provinciën, but the ships swapped to their final names in 1950. She was completed in 1953 and served the Royal Netherlands Navy from 1950 to 1977. She was sold to Peru in August 1976 and was renamed BAP Aguirre (CH-84) on 24 February 1978.

HNLMS De Ruyter - - remodeled from an all-gun cruiser to a ...? read above.

HMS Camperdown was a Battle-class destroyer launched in 1944 and broken up in 1970

OK - we are agreed that De Zeven Provincien/ Aguire was converted from an all gun cruiser to a guided missile cruiser.

I'm not seeing any description of a similar conversion for her sister, the De Ruyter/ Almirante Grau, or the Camperdown.

De Ruyter/ Almirante Grau currently has surface to surface missiles.  

Camperdown was rebuilt in 1957: I'm still checking for armament upgrades... but obviously, the electronics/gunnery upgrades would be extreme compared to 1945.

"fervently clinging" am I??!!!!~!

Surface_Line, you keep getting into these trivial disputes on this trivial forum. You have the tenacity of a Blake.  When you don't get the particular answer that you want, you react with the ferocity of a Lion! I just hope that the Tiger can change its stripes.  

Mr Bumm, I'm just going to have to make some assumptions here. 

First, I'll assume you are referring to the major conversions of HMS Blake and HMS Tiger to helicopter and Commando cruisers, by removing their after main gun mounts and replacing them with a large hangar and flight deck.  Therefore, as HMS Blake is named for Robert Blake, an English General at Sea during the First Anglo Dutch War, and HMS Tiger counts battles from the First and Second Anglo Dutch Wars among her Battle Honours, these ships do fit the stated requirement.  (Camperdown still may, but it seems none of us cared to figure out the justification)

Further, I will assume you were Lion when you implied that any other member of their class fit this requirement, as HMS Lion was, just as HNLMS DeRuyter, left unconverted.

You're up.  :-)

Rick

According to http://www.hazegray.org/navhist/carriers/uk_helo.htm#c34 Lion was also converted to a helicopter crusier, with work finishing in 1960. She was never converted later into an ASW ship as were her sisters.

DeRuyter was upgraded as a missile carrying cruiser in the Peruvian Navy as Almirante Grau, mounting Ottomat Mk 2 anti-ship missiles in 1993. per  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BAP_Almirante_Grau_(CLM-81) 

As for Camperdown, I still haven't been able to find data for her 1957 rebuild. I found info on her 1954 refurbishment, but it wasn't too exciting, just electronics and fire control improvements.