Shep Paine Passed - What does it mean ?

BlackSheepTwoOneFour

Why do I get the feeling it's Digital Cowboy all over again? You're posting stuff exactly what DG would do. 

 

No idea what youre talking about. I thought I was on a discussion forum so I shared my opinion. Is that frowned upon if it doesnt fit with the hive-minds opinion?

Why do I get the feeling it's Digital Cowboy all over again? You're posting stuff exactly what DG would do. 

CheesyMeatBurrito

I didn't disparage anyone or dismiss their work. But whatever. At least now I know celebrity worship extends to the modeling community.

Of course it does... We are human and when we see something lifted to a higher point, some try to follow... We all have our own role models in this hobby. Is it celebrity worship? Well that depends on how far the individual takes it.

CheesyMeatBurrito

 

I didn't say his work wasn't great, original, masterful, or anything of the sort. I do think it's laughable to suggest there is no equally impressive work in the hobby today. That's just absolutely ridiculous. I know it may be hard to believe if this forum is the only place you see modeling. But come on there is all kind of great stuff out there.

Nobody is saying there is not such work out there today. But somebody blazed that trail. I bet there were other modelers out there with such skill or more when Mr Paine was in his heyday. But they did not have his exposure. Perhaps they did not want to share because that would mean the competition at contests would be learnign their secrets? Who knows? And yes there is superb work out there now that really makes you say wow, how did they do that? But then as you have mentioned, new tools. techniques, and technologies have come along to keep raising the bar higher and higher.

CheesyMeatBurrito

And the passive agressive remarks about people who don't scratchbuild and use aftermarket are insulting. Perhaps people find enjoyment in other areas of the hobby. Maybe I want more detail but dont like cutting and stretching srpue and cutting up coke cans and unspooling speaker wire. Does that make those who do better or more legitimate? Heck no.

 

So what if I use aftermarket? It isn't about the materials used. It's about the finished product and if you're scratchbuilding entire sections of a subject but your paint is uneven and chunky, or you have seam lines unfilled then it's not automatically "better" because you didn't buy your detail.

If you don't like aftermarket don't buy it. I imagine if there had been the expansive presence of aftermarket in his day he would have used some. Clearly if he's been working today with better models, better tools and supplies and better access to aftermarket materials his work would be even better. Because he did have great artistic vision and skill but like it or not was limited by what he had. Thinking that he would have avoided aftermarket is naive. I really think he would have taken every opprotunity to improve his vision even more.

Scratchbuilding vs Aftermarket. A whole huge seperate area to compare. But seriously, what takes more talent and skill? To create on your own or to buy someone else creation and adapt it to your own project. AM is obviously a huge time saver. Soembody else did the research, made the masters, and then marketed and sold it off. We buy them and add tehm to our projects. Sometimes adding that AM item or set can be a serious exercise of modeling skill of its' own. They often do not fit as advertised, or some AM stuff require the skill levels of a micro surgeon to use. To those who can pull it off, "Salud!"

Scratchbuilding, it can be simple or intricate as well. But the creativity and ingenuity of modelers who create using traditional or non traditional  materials is limited only by the builders imagination. Thinking outside the box to come up with that last little detail that makes your latest project better than your last.

And yes, basic modeling skills matter most no matter how much aftermarket or scratchbuilding you add to any project. Master the basics first, then work on the pizzaz of AM or Scratchwork. Combine them all and build those prizewinners.

CheesyMeatBurrito

His great works are 30 plus years old. They are still great too. But there is equally great and yes even better stuff out there. I know that may be difficult to understand when you've built a cult of the individual shrine around someone though.

 

Texgunner

Mr. Burrito, I think the point that's being made here by many members is that Mr. Paine created, if you will, the "path" to modeling heights that are so frequently seen around the world.  He was a ground-breaker, and his art showed what was possible within the medium.  His work inspired and challenged many, and many owe him much.

Gary

 

I agree with that entirely.

CheesyMeatBurrito

 I do think it's laughable to suggest there is no equally impressive work in the hobby today. That's just absolutely ridiculous. I know it may be hard to believe if this forum is the only place you see modeling.

Damning with faint praise?   Everytime I'm just blown away by a model, airplane, armor, ship, whatever genre, thinking that this is other-worldly skill, the pinnacle of scale modeling prowess, well, just give it a little time and along comes a model that impresses even more.  It is true that there are many extremely talented builders in the scale modeling community; I'd go so far as to say that "good" builders today turn out art that would've been considered "great" 25-30 years ago.

Mr. Burrito, I think the point that's being made here by many members is that Mr. Paine created, if you will, the "path" to modeling heights that are so frequently seen around the world.  He was a ground-breaker, and his art showed what was possible within the medium.  His work inspired and challenged many, and many owe him much.

Gary

CheesyMeatBurrito

I didn't disparage anyone or dismiss their work. But whatever. At least now I know celebrity worship extends to the modeling community.

I didn't say his work wasn't great, original, masterful, or anything of the sort. I do think it's laughable to suggest there is no equally impressive work in the hobby today. That's just absolutely ridiculous. I know it may be hard to believe if this forum is the only place you see modeling. But come on there is all kind of great stuff out there.

And the passive agressive remarks about people who don't scratchbuild and use aftermarket are insulting. Perhaps people find enjoyment in other areas of the hobby. Maybe I want more detail but dont like cutting and stretching srpue and cutting up coke cans and unspooling speaker wire. Does that make those who do better or more legitimate? Heck no.

 

So what if I use aftermarket? It isn't about the materials used. It's about the finished product and if you're scratchbuilding entire sections of a subject but your paint is uneven and chunky, or you have seam lines unfilled then it's not automatically "better" because you didn't buy your detail.

If you don't like aftermarket don't buy it. I imagine if there had been the expansive presence of aftermarket in his day he would have used some. Clearly if he's been working today with better models, better tools and supplies and better access to aftermarket materials his work would be even better. Because he did have great artistic vision and skill but like it or not was limited by what he had. Thinking that he would have avoided aftermarket is naive. I really think he would have taken every opprotunity to improve his vision even more.

His great works are 30 plus years old. They are still great too. But there is equally great and yes even better stuff out there. I know that may be difficult to understand when you've built a cult of the individual shrine around someone though.

 

You dont understand just about anything that what has been said about Shep's work and more importantly the time frame where he comes from.

If yoy come from a school of thought who believes buying every aftermarket ite for your model is good be it.  When someone actually involves in making it for themselves that involves a higher ability as a model maker and that CANNOT be argued.  Model making is MUCH more than buying parts and slapping them together....is about problem solving, creativeness and TALENT.  That was what Shep had.  Go try and attempt to scratchbuild a figure (like he did times over) and expect to reach his accuracy and detail level...godd luck.

I didn't disparage anyone or dismiss their work. But whatever. At least now I know celebrity worship extends to the modeling community.

I didn't say his work wasn't great, original, masterful, or anything of the sort. I do think it's laughable to suggest there is no equally impressive work in the hobby today. That's just absolutely ridiculous. I know it may be hard to believe if this forum is the only place you see modeling. But come on there is all kind of great stuff out there.

And the passive agressive remarks about people who don't scratchbuild and use aftermarket are insulting. Perhaps people find enjoyment in other areas of the hobby. Maybe I want more detail but dont like cutting and stretching srpue and cutting up coke cans and unspooling speaker wire. Does that make those who do better or more legitimate? Heck no.

So what if I use aftermarket? It isn't about the materials used. It's about the finished product and if you're scratchbuilding entire sections of a subject but your paint is uneven and chunky, or you have seam lines unfilled then it's not automatically "better" because you didn't buy your detail.

If you don't like aftermarket don't buy it. I imagine if there had been the expansive presence of aftermarket in his day he would have used some. Clearly if he's been working today with better models, better tools and supplies and better access to aftermarket materials his work would be even better. Because he did have great artistic vision and skill but like it or not was limited by what he had. Thinking that he would have avoided aftermarket is naive. I really think he would have taken every opprotunity to improve his vision even more.

His great works are 30 plus years old. They are still great too. But there is equally great and yes even better stuff out there. I know that may be difficult to understand when you've built a cult of the individual shrine around someone though.

And "Lady Be Good". That one really resonated with me.

How to make peeling rubber, how to replicate fabric control surfaces. It also "wrote the book" on thinning plastic with a motor tool, something that's now in the basic skill set of most of us.

Anyone remember the old TV movie "Sole Survivor?".

panzerpilot

I recently ordered his book "how to photograph scale models". I was sorry to hear of his passing, as he was quite an influence to much of our hobby. Incidentally, was he the one who did that famous B-17 diorama in the mid-1970's? The one that was crash landed?

 

Yes, the crash landed B-17 dio was his.

I recently ordered his book "how to photograph scale models". I was sorry to hear of his passing, as he was quite an influence to much of our hobby. Incidentally, was he the one who did that famous B-17 diorama in the mid-1970's? The one that was crash landed?

Off catching bail skippers.

Tanker, I had to do quite a bit of image searching to locate a few similar images of the downed TBD diorama. I built most every piece of armor and aircraft that Monogram put out in that era, and that dio flyer in that kit really stuck with me. Why? I can't say for sure, but at the same time I recall an Aero publishers book on the TBD carried at the closest LHS with a James Dietz painting of the TBDs at Midway. And I was also doing a lot of reading on that battle myself. Add in the movie "Midway" coming out a year or so later and lets just say that my young impressionable mind was filled with a certain degree of awe and respect for the courage of those TBD crews at Midway that has stayed with me to this day. The TBD Midway and C-47 D-Day dioramas are probably my two favorites of the aircraft flyers that came with the kits. I still have a couple of the original  Paine flyers from those kits in my collection of stuff, but unfortunately the TBD flyer is not one of them.

Cheesy, I really suggest that you learn about the man's work in this hobby before you dismiss that work. I suspect that Shep could be called one of the original "river counters" as he was constantly accurizing and improving his kit subjects, even on those time constrained Monogram dioramas. But he was not the obnoxious SOB who would pronounce a kit unbuildable because there was details off or a bad fit somewhere like many on the internet today who have their own lordly websites. I bet he would fix it if it mattered to him and drive on. Those kits were not built OOB, but were modified and accurized usiing what limited refernce materials were onhand. As far as Aftermarket goes, lets just say that his stuff helped create the reasons such things exist today. Modelers wanted their builds to go to the next level and created cotttage industries to provided the parts to do so. Today's feast of AM had to start somewhere.

As a side note, at yesterday's AMPS meeting for the local chapter here, I was going thru an issue of one of the latest modeling magazines that showcased some of the latest "schools" of building and finishing with another member, who is far more talented than I. We  both commented on the level of artistry on the kits in the magazine was impressive to look at, at the same time there was a bit of overreach in that direction to achieve that result, that you don't see in Mr Paine's work.

Stik :

 Where did you find this one . My goodness , It's like being a fly on a wave !  T.B.

I am going to forgive you ;

    What ? Yes you are showing an arrogant disdain for one of the main reasons many got into this hobby . Folks like Shep Paine . Learn to verbally respect where you are ( FSM's Forums ) and where , how and whom you are speaking of .  T.B.

BlackSheepTwoOneFour

 

 

 

CheesyMeatBurrito

I bet rivet counters would pick his stuff apart if not for the fondness of his work from their childhood.

Oh yeah lets pile on the folks using aftermarket too. Why not. They couldn't possibly be real modelers. And of course no one could do work as good or better these days. Not like its all over the internet or nothin'.

 

 

 

 

 

Wow.... I'm gonna bite my tongue but your comment is borderline arrogant.

 

Not only that but extremely ignorant.  Shep was one of a kind, like Jordan to basketball, Bruce Lee to martial arts cinema etc, a true pure talent.  Also he had a most important trait....humility and humbleness, lacking badly, as seen here. Enough said.

Well CheesyMeatBurrito you have accomplished your goal of ruffling feathers. Those of us who understand what an important role Shep Paine played in advancing our hobby toward what it is today will continue to hold him in a special place in our memories no matter how desperately you disparage him. With all the advances that have been made in kit molding technology , aftermarket parts, weathering techniques, etc... there are still very few people out there who can rival his originality and creativity in regard to telling stories with miniatures. His box dioramas were totally original pieces (or should I say pieces of art) that relied on his skills as a sculptor, machinist, woodwoorker, painter and many other skills. How many of us can take an idea and create a diorama from scratch without using any kits? I dare say not many. Having seen all of his dioramas first hand I can unequivocally state that I have never seen anyone come even close to his level. So say what you will but those of us who understand how important his contributions were and how top notch his work was will always hold him in high esteem!

From the Finescale Modeler Facebook page:

Sad news: RIP Sheperd Paine, a legend in the world of miniatures. The success of his diorama book led to to a Kalmbach Publishing start-up in 1982 called FineScale Modeler.

CheesyMeatBurrito

I bet rivet counters would pick his stuff apart if not for the fondness of his work from their childhood.

Oh yeah lets pile on the folks using aftermarket too. Why not. They couldn't possibly be real modelers. And of course no one could do work as good or better these days. Not like its all over the internet or nothin'.

 

Where is Hans when ya need him?!?!

CheesyMeatBurrito

I bet rivet counters would pick his stuff apart if not for the fondness of his work from their childhood.

Oh yeah lets pile on the folks using aftermarket too. Why not. They couldn't possibly be real modelers. And of course no one could do work as good or better these days. Not like its all over the internet or nothin'.

 

Wow.... I'm gonna bite my tongue but your comment is borderline arrogant.

I bet rivet counters would pick his stuff apart if not for the fondness of his work from their childhood.

Oh yeah lets pile on the folks using aftermarket too. Why not. They couldn't possibly be real modelers. And of course no one could do work as good or better these days. Not like its all over the internet or nothin'.

Well, the younger moders see pre/post shading, filtering, color modulation, hair spray method, etc as SOP, but I think they don't quite understand that wash/dry brush was the norm back in the day. There was a dearth of aftermarket too.  Offhand I only recall Model Technologies belt buckles and placards, Microscale decals, Waldron punches, and the railroad section of the hobby shops.  Oh, and the coveted McDonalds coffee lids for 0.010 styrene and lead foil off wine bottles.

If one were to look over one of Shep's dioramas and tried to recreate it today, how much reliance on aftermarket would one use?  And the references available today in print and on line is overwhelming compared to the few Profile and Squadron books available in the 1970s.  Shep really knew how to improvise to build those fantastic dioramas.

I think his inspiration to modelers was his greatest gift, and that will stand the test of time. Rest in peace Shep, and thanks for all those great models!

stikpusher

Indeed...

I challenge any of the current gurus to do this with what he had on hand... under the same time constraints...

 

I suppose I'm just gilding the lilly, but Shep did some amazing work.

Holy crap stik! I never saw that one before!

Indeed...

I challenge any of the current gurus to do this with what he had on hand... under the same time constraints...

CheesyMeatBurrito -

Pfffftttt.... typical of kids like you. His stuff doesn't hold up to modern work?? How so? Please elaborate. Shep Paine's work are awesome no matter what generation he did them.

Bingo, Bucksco.

I, like many of my age, grew up with Monogram models and the diorama tips that Shep did for them. After checking those out and reading a few of his books, I realized that where he excelled, in addition to have great modeling abilities, was his knack for dioramas that told a story. They weren't just scenes, or platforms to display his models and/or figures, but stories told in three dimensions. Some of the little things he did were clever and sometimes humorous. Example: yellow snow by the tree in the Monogram Screamin' Mimi diorama.

One of my favorites was the anti-aircraft US halftrack he did for Monogram. There was no doubt about what was going on in the scene. The crew and troops were obviously taking on an enemy plane, even though an aircraft wasn't a visible part of the scene. A rifleman is aiming at the "aircraft" while the twin .50 mount in the back of the halftrack is aiming in the same direction as the rifleman. And the pose of the figures as well as a wounded man proped up against the side of the vehicle receiving first aid, adds to the drama.

I have said it elsewhere, but he is one person I would have liked to have met in person.

If you cannot appreciate his work or feel that it does not hold up to modern standards it is most likely because you have never seen it firsthand. His box dioramas were a wonder to behold-not just because of what was in them but because they always told a great story. It's one thing to be able to build a nice tank, airplane or figure but it is quite another to use them to tell a narrative. I firmly believe that nobody has ever been able to top him in regard to his diorama work and story telling ability. Those of us who were around when he came on the scene understand what a huge influence he was on the hobby.

In one of Shep's "modeling bibles", he wrote something like "...modeling a burnt-out tank is the Holy Grail of modeling and one of the most difficult projects you can attempt.",.

Those words inspired me to do my very popular and extremely successful "SPOOKED!" diorama which was my first story in FSM.

OH :

  By the way , I like your tag-line !

Proff ;

    I know precisely what you mean  .I would go to Museums wherever and the ships on display were my inspiration .I still don't know who built some .But I really don't care .They , whoever they were , inspired me to lift my skills up a notch or two .    T.B.