Priceing, PE, after market $$$

Yeah, PE are ridiculously priced. When deciding on whether I want PE for a certain kit, I shop around in various sites (scalehobbyist is my go-to store) to see who has the best prices.

You're right about the price of aftermarket stuff. If you wanted to, you could easily spend more than the price of any given kit on "improvements" that few would appreciate, including yourself.

I think the balance comes from taking the reviews with a large dose of salt; the people who write them are generally skilled and knowledgable enough to care for the subtle differances that aftermarket PE & resin provide. That's not to say that sometimes an under represented aspect of a kit just makes an AM replacement or enhancement obvious, but the real question is whether or not it's important to you (?).

Something that works for me is to hold off buying any AM stuff until I've really examined the kit and done some research into what specific improvements I can achieve. How enthusiastic am I to do them vs. the expense? I have some older kits that will benefit from just a better seat or some other inexpensive part, and a few that will need a bunch of AM to satisfy what I would like the model to become. Modern kits are much better detailed right out of the box, and some include photoetch and/or resin details, along with other goodies like metal landing gear. 

It's really up to the individual to decide what it will take to make a satisfactory finished model, and sometimes it's just some scratchbuilt detail or paint. Enjoying the hobby has nothing to do with how much one spends on it - we all have limits. Hope my point of view will help you to  have more fun!

Mike

You are right, a lot of the AM stuff is pricey. Its not unheard of for me to spend double or more  on AM than the cost of the kit. he most expensive single AM set so was was close to £100 for a set for the Revell Bismarck, and thats before the wooden deck and propellers. But, at the end of the day, you don't have to buy it. Most of the modern kits are good enough to build OOB.

I know follow what Mike suggets and hold off buy the AM until i have loked at the kit. There have been a couple recently where i bult kits and didn't need the PE i had bought for it.

But as Mike says, enjoying it has nothing to do with how much you spend.

Bottom line is; "How much do you want to spend" and; "Is it worth your time".  It can be very costly.  As an example, I built a visible B-17G in 2015.  I spent 3xs the amount of the original kit I had.  Every single internal compartment was loaded with PE.  I did not include the external PE/Resin AM items.  It was just way too expensive for my budget.  

Ultimately, that build made it into the Digital Readers Gallery here on FSM.  So it was worth my time and money.  In the end it's really the modelers decision and does it fit into his/her budget.  

Toshi

Armor is pretty much the same,although Meng and Takom are improving things.You spend good money on a kit with rubber band tracks that look awful and have to pay to replace them with some kind of AM track that can double the cost.

But yes you are being unrealistic, $50 kit +$40 PE = $50 ? Not going to happen.Why should they,they want to make money also.If your on a budget,like most of us,you do your shopping,make your choices,and spend wisely.

Everything cost money these days everyone wants better and more detailed,but want to pay 20-30year old prices.

I doubt if many people are getting rich supplying to this hobby.  I see big mfgs being sold all the time, smaller firms going out of existance.  I know most of us think this is the world's best and most popular hobby, but it really isn't.  I am frequently surprised by big kit price increases lately.  But then, I find the quality of kits improving substantially, and also find so many people willing to pay these prices, so there is little incentive for firms not to increase prices.

Fortunately, there are many lower priced kits still available, though they tend to be of lower quality.  I would also guess that mainstream model kits, the ones built with optional accessory details (aftermarket) are much in the minority.  One can even compete without spending on aftermarket, by entering OOB (out of box) categories.  I am always amazed by workmanship in winners in OOB competition. 

Lastly, if you are a contest person, realize that simply putting on expensive PE will not ensure you a trophy. I have heard many conversations after a contest, with people accosting judges with statements about how they had more PE on their models than the competition- why did they not win 1st place!

I bought a 1/72 Gato from a member here, and have spent what I paid for it again in PE for it. But she is big enough to make it worthwhile at 4'4".  Will end up removing most all of the decking on the kit parts and replacing with PE.  About the only thing kit in the conning tower will be the base structure.  But to me it is well worth it as to what boat it will represent, who it honors, and where it will end up at for display.  Have done some PE in other kits I'm working on.  It depends what will be seen when done, and how well I can use it, as to if the kit gets it.  Like everyone else said, in the end, up to you, and the budget as to what you put into the kit and the build.

.

Thanks for the reply, its a subject since i got back in to the hobby a couple years back. I admit, i had sticker shock when i seen the prices. So over 15+ years its going to go up. It was the whole after market that blew me away. I am a out of the box builder for the most part, i make a lot of my accessories, i will eventually buy out of market i guess. Its all good everyone to there own i agree. IMOP, I think you spend 50 to 100+ for a kit you should not have to buy after market to build a high quality model. Just me in my world. One thing i would like is a build out of the box review, i see a new model, and they already adding out of market. I see it some times but mostly there with extras. 

Billmc

Thanks for the reply, its a subject since i got back in to the hobby a couple years back. I admit, i had sticker shock when i seen the prices. So over 15+ years its going to go up. It was the whole after market that blew me away. I am a out of the box builder for the most part, i make a lot of my accessories, i will eventually buy out of market i guess. Its all good everyone to there own i agree. IMOP, I think you spend 50 to 100+ for a kit you should not have to buy after market to build a high quality model. Just me in my world. One thing i would like is a build out of the box review, i see a new model, and they already adding out of market. I see it some times but mostly there with extras. 

 

Most of kit reviews are OOB,reviewers usually don't add AM for a review.All the FSM reviews are out of box.Just Google the kit # and you will find OOB reviews for sure.

I think builders blogs add AM but usually not kit reviewers.

I read one post where someone was talking about upgrading their Tiger with Friul tracks and it was over $50 for those things!   I was also scanning through some reviews the other day and saw one where the reviewer had at least 7 or 8 AM items that were used to "correct" the errors/deficiencies of the kit...  I struggle not so much with the cost of things but the perception that if you don't replace the components with the "correct" parts, I will have built a bad model. 

I am going to agree that no more AM and PE until I get the kit and look it over as well.

John

There seems to be this belief that you *have* to go aftermarket on you your build to be a "real modeler" but it's just not true. There is nothing wrong with going OOTB. 

That said, I'm an aftermarket junky and I've found that I get my money's worth in the end... double the price on a build for AM also means double the modeling time to finish something so it's basically just a "quantity vs quality" argument.

As for the actual cost of models, yeah they are more expensive but look at what you are getting with today's kits vs old kits! The detail, kit quality and accuracy, not to mention number of subjects is SO much better than "back in the day" and all that costs money. I don't feel like manufacturers are gouging us; in fact it feels like they are generally bending over backwards just to stay in business.

I've been working on a 1/200 HMS Nelson+ aftermarket since last September and have probably between 2-300 hours into her.  While it was expensive up front (roughly $600 for everything) I will have ended up paying around 2 bucks an hour for entertainment for the year and it's turning out to be a seriously impressive model.

In the end, I feel like I got my money's worth anyway.

pilotjohn

I read one post where someone was talking about upgrading their Tiger with Friul tracks and it was over $50 for those things!   I was also scanning through some reviews the other day and saw one where the reviewer had at least 7 or 8 AM items that were used to "correct" the errors/deficiencies of the kit...  I struggle not so much with the cost of things but the perception that if you don't replace the components with the "correct" parts, I will have built a bad model. 

I am going to agree that no more AM and PE until I get the kit and look it over as well.

John

 

Its not really about thinking you have bult a bad model, just wanting to make it a little better. I am quite happy to pay that for Fruils, i have 20 to 30 sets still waiting to be used. Is the end result that much better than the kit tracks, well it depends on the kit. Is it easier, nope, definatly not. But, i do it because i wnat to. And at at the end of the day, thats the main thing, building as we want.

Billmc

I am looking at july issue p-47 review its chopped with after market or added parts. Now i am not saying your wrong i am just looking at this review and maybe its not oob, but i am not seeing where its not.

 

Yes you are right but that is a build article,he isn't reviewing the kit,he is giving you options,building it into what he wants,teaching you techniques.The reviews are diffrent,giving you looks at the bare bones kits starting on pp 52

chango

There seems to be this belief that you *have* to go aftermarket on you your build to be a "real modeler" but it's just not true. There is nothing wrong with going OOTB. 

That said, I'm an aftermarket junky and I've found that I get my money's worth in the end... double the price on a build for AM also means double the modeling time to finish something so it's basically just a "quantity vs quality" argument.

As for the actual cost of models, yeah they are more expensive but look at what you are getting with today's kits vs old kits! The detail, kit quality and accuracy, not to mention number of subjects is SO much better than "back in the day" and all that costs money. I don't feel like manufacturers are gouging us; in fact it feels like they are generally bending over backwards just to stay in business.

I've been working on a 1/200 HMS Nelson+ aftermarket since last September and have probably between 2-300 hours into her.  While it was expensive up front (roughly $600 for everything) I will have ended up paying around 2 bucks an hour for entertainment for the year and it's turning out to be a seriously impressive model.

In the end, I feel like I got my money's worth anyway.

 

 

Great point on the cost per hour!  Thanks.

John

Billmc

I am looking at july issue p-47 review its chopped with after market or added parts. Now i am not saying your wrong i am just looking at this review and maybe its not oob, but i am not seeing where its not.

 

As Tojo says, build reviews both in the mag and on most websites are OOB. The article like the P-47 one you mention are just like the WiP threads you see in here with people building how they want.

I agree with Billmc, but I am afraid that the days of new well appointed kits for a reasonable price are gone. That is why I look to ebay, and only buy a deal. If it is not what I want or in my price, then I don't buy it. It takes a little while to find the deals, but they are there. Not only can I not afford the new prices, I don't want to be so concerned that I do it justice that I hate the build.

I also have the Nelson kit and the Pontos set to enhance it and have to agree that when looking at the build in it's entirety the huge up front cost is worth it. Obviously others will not agree but this is a hobby about individual preferences and my own enjoyment is all I'm concerned about. I couldn't be happier there are so many choices available.

Thanks, i thought maybe that might be it, but i could not see where its a build or review. Maybe a shout out to the model magazines, a couple oob reviews would be fun(not just finescale) thanks. At the end of the day there is not a bad choice here. You can go out and spend to your harts delight, build a tank short of getting into it!. Or go simple, old school have fun with the older kits. I hope as prices will rise that the manufacturer take pitty on us cheap skates lol, toss out a couple builds with some cool things in it that we don't have to take out a personal loan on lol. 

Billmc

Thanks for the reply, its a subject since i got back in to the hobby a couple years back. I admit, i had sticker shock when i seen the prices. So over 15+ years its going to go up. It was the whole after market that blew me away. I am a out of the box builder for the most part, i make a lot of my accessories, i will eventually buy out of market i guess. Its all good everyone to there own i agree. IMOP, I think you spend 50 to 100+ for a kit you should not have to buy after market to build a high quality model. Just me in my world. One thing i would like is a build out of the box review, i see a new model, and they already adding out of market. I see it some times but mostly there with extras. 

 

there was discussion regarding "naked build" reviews. These are reviews where the modeler builds the kits out of box without paint, showing parts fit and unpainted detail. There are pros and cons regarding this type of review.

Putting on my old curmudgeon hat now, and saying that you can do what we did, back in the day, before there was PE or aftermarket anything, and scratchbuild those details.

And yes, I did build a model in the snow, uphill, both ways!

Seriously, though, you really can scratch a lot of things that folks otherwise represent with PE or resin or whatever.  Some of you may know Bob Ciccone from the shows, he builds 1/700 ships, and while he does use contemporary aftermarket materials, he also scratches a lot of his details.  He makes rails, for example, from stretched sprue, and it looks fantastic.  The judges think so, too, since he wins awards for his models.  But this is to illustrate my point, that you can do those things yourself, too.  Aftermarket supplies are first and foremost a convenience.

the Baron

Putting on my old curmudgeon hat now, and saying that you can do what we did, back in the day, before there was PE or aftermarket anything, and scratchbuild those details.

And yes, I did build a model in the snow, uphill, both ways!

Seriously, though, you really can scratch a lot of things that folks otherwise represent with PE or resin or whatever.  Some of you may know Bob Ciccone from the shows, he builds 1/700 ships, and while he does use contemporary aftermarket materials, he also scratches a lot of his details.  He makes rails, for example, from stretched sprue, and it looks fantastic.  The judges think so, too, since he wins awards for his models.  But this is to illustrate my point, that you can do those things yourself, too.  Aftermarket supplies are first and foremost a convenience.

 

Maybe you could Baron,but I have no scratch building aptitude at all  So I will either build OOB or add a small amount of AM to my builds.

I'm right there with you. PE is way over priced. Take for example the Fascinations Metal Earth 3D metal model kits that are like $4. You only need to look as far as that to know that you are being ripped off. 

I've been building models since I was 8 and a majority of them are straight out to box as is. In the last 10 years I've built up the courage to kit bash or use polystyrene pieces/brass pipes to build up details.

I can't justify it but then again, my skill level isn't competition level. I've always wanted to get into PE but the price, cost of additional tools/glues have always deterred me. 

It is my hope that they someday kit builders will incorporate more PE right into certain kits. I'd be willing to pay a percent more for a kit that had PE integrated in altogether. Just don't gouge me with a huge markup. 

Ahrenisavagabond

I'm right there with you. PE is way over priced. Take for example the Fascinations Metal Earth 3D metal model kits that are like $4. You only need to look as far as that to know that you are being ripped off. 

But which ones are $4. I built the AT-AT not long ago. thats about £14 and tehre not as much there as in a PE set costing that much.

Ahrenisavagabond

It is my hope that they someday kit builders will incorporate more PE right into certain kits. I'd be willing to pay a percent more for a kit that had PE integrated in altogether. Just don't gouge me with a huge markup. 

 

The poroblem there is, what about those who don't wnat to go the route of PE. Your going to bump up the price of the kits, and as was mentioned, your not going to get a $50 kit with $40 worth of PE for $60. I am quite happy with the way it is where we can buy a model and then decide for ourselves if we wnat the extras.

No one has to buy them to build a really nice kit. My skill level isn't competition level either, but i still enjoy ading the AM. It seems some people are looking at it likes its a chore. For me, its all part of the build and the fun of it.

the Baron

Putting on my old curmudgeon hat now, and saying that you can do what we did, back in the day, before there was PE or aftermarket anything, and scratchbuild those details.

And yes, I did build a model in the snow, uphill, both ways!

Seriously, though, you really can scratch a lot of things that folks otherwise represent with PE or resin or whatever.  Some of you may know Bob Ciccone from the shows, he builds 1/700 ships, and while he does use contemporary aftermarket materials, he also scratches a lot of his details.  He makes rails, for example, from stretched sprue, and it looks fantastic.  The judges think so, too, since he wins awards for his models.  But this is to illustrate my point, that you can do those things yourself, too.  Aftermarket supplies are first and foremost a convenience.

 

Yes, you can scratch a lot of these things. I have turned my hand to some serious scratchbuilding when there was no AM option. But while scratching may be cheaper i find it also takes a lot lnger as wel. Yep, i like the conveniance of AM parts and am happy to pay for them. And when i feel the need to scratch, i enjoy that as well.

Ahrenisavagabond

 

It is my hope that they someday kit builders will incorporate more PE right into certain kits. I'd be willing to pay a percent more for a kit that had PE integrated in altogether. Just don't gouge me with a huge markup. 

 

Eduard has their Profipack kit series which includes some nice PE. I picked up a Mk VIII at a show for $18 which is great for me b/c it's my first real taste of PE and I know there will be a learning curve. I think most of them run $40ish (correct me if I'm wrong) retail which isn't a bad deal considering the PE and level of detail most of them seem to have. Others would know better as this is the first Profipack that I've built.

mrmike

 you could easily spend more than the price of any given kit on "improvements" that few would appreciate, including yourself.

LFAOOOOOO