My Super 61 (Walcott's bird) in progress

Avus

Member since
June 2003
From: Caput Mundi

Posted by Avus on Saturday, June 11, 2005 5:27 AM

Thanks for the info Salbando.
Actually I wasn't thinking to change the ammo boxes on the Pavehawk, I was only providing info to intruder_bass.
What I have started to do is change the position of one ammo driver on the center box, in order to have both ammo chutes coming out of the same side of the box.
Picture might be clearer:

Klaus

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Anonymous

Member since
November 2005

Posted by Anonymous on Thursday, June 9, 2005 8:13 PM

Avus,
Concerning the ammo boxes, don't worry about changing anything on the Pavehawk as we have the center mounted can's with the drivers installed whenever we're employing the GAU-2B (M-134 for you Army guys). With the new Block and SPS upgrades, these cans are now mounted externally below the gunner's windows. I'm not sure if the 160th or the Army in general will follow suite but they may. It really frees up space in the cabin.

Now, after thinking real hard (it's been around 12 years now) I'm pretty sure that the 160th Hawks had the big ammo cans and only had feed trays hooked up to them. Looking at the drivers, I don't see how they could have mounted them to the cans as they are a fairly intricate piece of gear and go hand in hand with the center mounted bins. All of our 7.62 linked comes in the big ammo cans (40mm cans) when we get it from the ammo dudes. Usually the gunners and FE's will upload the ammo into the center bins with the help of the ammo troops.

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Avus

Member since
June 2003
From: Caput Mundi

Posted by Avus on Wednesday, June 8, 2005 2:37 AM

No intruder_bass the CC miniguns don't have the "used-shell-thing". I scratchbuilt one and added it to theirs.
As to the feeding mechanism I've seen pics of the whole mechanism attached to the ammo box. And CC sells thier miniguns with ammo boxes that have the feeding mechanism.
Again, at home I'll try to find those pics.

QUOTE: Nice pic of the chick...I mean spent shell thingie too.

Yeah I figured a pic with a chick would look better than only a minigun. Wink [;)]

Klaus

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HeavyArty

Member since
December 2002
From: Valrico, FL

Posted by HeavyArty on Wednesday, June 8, 2005 12:48 AM

My understanding is that the cans just had the ammo chutes attached. The motors on the miniguns would pull the rounds through the chute. The cans would most likely be strapped or bungi corded into place under the guns, doubt they would have the ballistic blankets on them either.

Gino P. Quintiliani - Field Artillery - The KING of BATTLE!!!

Check out my Gallery: https://app.photobucket.com/u/HeavyArty

"People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." -- George Orwell

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intruder_bass

Member since
November 2013

Posted by intruder_bass on Tuesday, June 7, 2005 7:05 PM

Oh, thanks guys, now I got it.

I wonder how these ammo cans where secured to floor if there was ballistic blancket all over it?
So the feeding mechanism included the electric engine or just the chute?

If it did, was the motor installed on each can?

To Avus: Do CC miniguns have this "used-shell-thing"?
To Heavy Arty: thanks for the file! i finally downloaded it Smile [:)]

Andy

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HeavyArty

Member since
December 2002
From: Valrico, FL

Posted by HeavyArty on Tuesday, June 7, 2005 9:24 AM

Avus,
Above pic of ammo box is the type I am talking about, a 40mm ammo can. Nice pic of the chick...I mean spent shell thingie too.

Gino P. Quintiliani - Field Artillery - The KING of BATTLE!!!

Check out my Gallery: https://app.photobucket.com/u/HeavyArty

"People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." -- George Orwell

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Avus

Member since
June 2003
From: Caput Mundi

Posted by Avus on Tuesday, June 7, 2005 1:59 AM

The ammo cans look like the standard M-60 ammo cans only much bigger and with the ammo feed mechanism.

CC's Miniguns are definitively better then the kit ones. BUT all the miniguns I've seen lack the "used-shell-thing" (i.e. where the used shells are ejected; It's a sort of conical cover).

I understand I haven't been very clear so I'll try to get some pics as soon as I get home.

OK here are some pics i found on the net:
"used-shell-thing" is that thing on the right with the hose attached

Ammo box without ammo feed mechanism

Klaus

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intruder_bass

Member since
November 2013

Posted by intruder_bass on Monday, June 6, 2005 11:15 AM

Hello guys!
I have couple of new questions to ALL, who is familiar to Black Hawks.

1. According to info that I have there where six M-134 ammo cans on board of Super 61- 3 for each minigun. Ammo cans were rather big - 1500 rounds each, so 4500 rounds per gun.
- "By the way I used all of mine and started to use one of the other gunners when we were shot down..." (Ray Dowdy. Crew chief of Super 61)
So the question is: how do those ammo cans look like? any photo or picture will be helpful. I had no luck to find any on web. As Heavy Arty suggested: maybe they used 40mm standard ammo boxes...?

2.Did anybody see CC miniguns? Are they better then kit's? Can somebody make a close photo of CC's - just need to know if they worth it.

Thanks
andy

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Avus

Member since
June 2003
From: Caput Mundi

Posted by Avus on Friday, June 3, 2005 2:12 AM

Wow! Now that's a HOT topic!
With all this reference it'll take me years to make my Pavehawk accurate!

Thanks Guys for all the pics and info.

Klaus

Thanks to ImageShack for Free Image Hosting

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intruder_bass

Member since
November 2013

Posted by intruder_bass on Thursday, June 2, 2005 11:26 PM

OK, now i have the clue... Smile [:)]

about M/L/G I got the info from real participant of operation. Here is what he said:
- " The aircraft always flew with the cockpit doors off. Super 61 had a hoist mount, but no hoist was installed. It would be a U shaped piece of metal about a foot long and about a foot forward of the right hand engine air inlet.
One other thing, the fairings around the main landing gear
strut weren't installed on any of the Black hawks in D Company Cargo Hooks weren't installed in the aircraft. There was a tube, about 3 inches in diameter installed in its place. The tube had 4 rings (in a clover leaf pattern) attached to it in the center. The system was installed in place of the cargo hook for securing the aircraft during fixed wing transport of the helicopter..." (Pat Powers crew chief Super 65)

So thats y I asked you about the "no fairing" photo.... Smile [:)]

BTW have you ever encounter this "hook for securing the aircraft thing"? I did not find any info or photo of it on the web. Only what Pat mentioned...

Andy

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Mogwa

Member since
January 2004
From: atop a UH-60

Posted by Mogwa on Thursday, June 2, 2005 10:59 PM

Well, the landing light and IR searchlight appear to me to be slightly to far outboard and aft, but I dont have any reference here so I'll get back to you on that one.
The hole in the M/R fairing is just a handhold.

This is the portion of the 5 pack that is visible. Its the top of the Input mod.

As far as the M/L/G that area is covered by a fairing and isnt really visible. The acft in this photo has this fairing removed for whatever reason. See the pic in my more useless crap post. Notice the fairings covering the ESSS lower strut mounts in my pics, but the mounts are exposed in your pic. It would be unusual for acft to operate without these fairings. Not that they are required, just they are rarely removed and are reinstalled after any maintenance in that area.

[img]http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y211/intruder_bass/landinggear1.jpg[img]

Only the lower piston near the wheel rims would be exposed.
HTH,
Mog

UH-60 Crewchief / Technical Inspector and Modelling Addict

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intruder_bass

Member since
November 2013

Posted by intruder_bass on Thursday, June 2, 2005 9:38 PM

wow!

Mscottholt and Mogwa - thanks for great pictures and info about the M/R and blades. According to Super 61 photos that I have the MR mast was of natural metal color but the rest stuff - black as on all Night stalker’s birds. I planned to "park" my helo on the airfield, but I don't think there where any RBF tags on it... What do you think guys?

About "More useless crap" posted by Mogwa. Love those pics! do you have more? I couldn't find something even close to them. Very useful! Thanks!

I marked with "question sign" some spots that I am interested in. I still can not find anything useful about them. Close photo or drawing will be appreciated.

are the searchlight and landing light holes where they soppose to be?

Have to make at least "something" inside this hole...

What are these small holes for? What's on sight in there?

Thanks
Andy

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Mogwa

Member since
January 2004
From: atop a UH-60

Posted by Mogwa on Thursday, June 2, 2005 5:27 PM

More useless crap

Mog

UH-60 Crewchief / Technical Inspector and Modelling Addict

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Mogwa

Member since
January 2004
From: atop a UH-60

Posted by Mogwa on Thursday, June 2, 2005 5:01 PM

The relective tape should have been removed after the T/R balance, But you see it out the sometimes. Almost all the M/R masts Ive seen are natural metal color. Ive seen a couple that are helo drab and one was black (apparently scored from task force).
Ive got pics only a modeller can love of UH-60 widgets, lemme know what you want to see and ill see what i have. Cant get the floor plates as theyre all in storage. Got a diagram of typical rotor droop for your enjoyment.

Actually after looking at the diagram thats not typical droop. At rest theyre about half that. You can also see how the M/R componants are color coded from the swashplate up to the spindles. Some M/R blade cuffs get a colored square also.
Personally I hate the Kit rotor head and hope Cobra or somebody does resin casts of the Main mod and rotor head.
HTH,
Mog

UH-60 Crewchief / Technical Inspector and Modelling Addict

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Anonymous

Member since
November 2005

Posted by Anonymous on Thursday, June 2, 2005 9:31 AM

Alot of the Alpha models had CARC painted masts, wheras I've seen only one Lima with a painted Mast.. Also on one of the TR blades, there was a strip of reflective tape that ran from the Base of a Paddle to about 8-10 inches into the blade, I can't remember what color blade it was on.

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Anonymous

Member since
November 2005

Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, June 1, 2005 11:38 PM

Scott knows what I meant concerning sag/droop.

DoWBaseball,
Yeah that's waaay to much droop.

By the way, the tail rotor blades and pitch links have the same 4 colors for ID, and we have a mix of Titanium and OD colored main rotor masts (some of both). And I'm talking USAF HH-60's here but I wouldn't think it would be much different for Army birds.

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Anonymous

Member since
November 2005

Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, June 1, 2005 8:17 AM

well when i did my Italeri AH-1 the rotors sagged until they were about 3 cm from the ground.... WAY too much.

My Revell AH-64 did the same, so maybe i'm just doing something wrong.

I DO NOT want them to sag, as in the DIO this will be a bird that has just landed, and will still be spinning.

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Anonymous

Member since
November 2005

Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, June 1, 2005 7:59 AM

The blades have individual colors when it comes to track and balance of the blades. The Color on the PCL's just help with the identification.

Here are some more pictures to help you with accuracy.

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intruder_bass

Member since
November 2013

Posted by intruder_bass on Wednesday, June 1, 2005 7:46 AM

to mscottholt

QUOTE: Pitch change links (the thin vertical rods x 4) have a colored stripe somewhere in the bottom third of the rod. The colors are Red, Yellow, Blue and Black.

Thanks, I just noticed this looking through photos Smile [:)]

Btw what this colors mean?

QUOTE: The mast is a single piece of machine milled Titanium

Yes but unfortunately I have no lathe (I’d love to make it solid) so I had to imitate relief on mast with different sized pipes Smile [:)]

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Anonymous

Member since
November 2005

Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, June 1, 2005 7:29 AM

I think Salbando meant by sag is the amount of droop of the MR blades as they sit., usually the droop is more exxagerated by the blade tiedowns pulling the tips further down. A good example is in the Operator's manual, showing the normal amount of droop of the blades as it would sit on the ramp.

As you are super detailing the Mast, to be fairly accurate, the Pitch change links (the thin vertical rods x 4) have a colored stripe somewhere in the bottom third of the rod. The colors are Red, Yellow, Blue and Black. Even on the real machine, they are hard to see. Also around the mast/swashplate area are tons of grease stains. The mast is a single piece of machine milled Titanium.

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intruder_bass

Member since
November 2013

Posted by intruder_bass on Tuesday, May 31, 2005 11:50 PM

I am not sure about what kind of "sagging" you are asking. I did not connect blades yet to my rotor. Smile [:)]

The only thing i can tell you for now: I did not find kit's main rotor detailed enough for me so i cut it into several pieces, drilled them and added some metal pipes.

Andy

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Anonymous

Member since
November 2005

Posted by Anonymous on Tuesday, May 31, 2005 10:25 PM

unless you're buildling it in-flight, it's desirable to have the rotors sag a bit. Depends on the airframe, but usually every main rotor blade I ever saw sagged to a certain extent when on the ground. Hopefully your idea of "sag" is the same as mine.

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Anonymous

Member since
November 2005

Posted by Anonymous on Tuesday, May 31, 2005 10:21 PM

I just bought an AH-60L DAP, i have afew questions....

Both times i've built helo's, the rotors sagged.....now i know the brass-rod technique... but not alot about it, or how to do it.

Does this kit's rotor's sag aswell??? Do i need to do something to fix this???

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intruder_bass

Member since
November 2013

Posted by intruder_bass on Tuesday, May 31, 2005 11:32 AM

I've thought about it but:
I have NO EXPERIENCE in making resin parts. Maybe I could make master-model and send it to some company which is carrying out stuff like that and can put it on production (Cobra Company?). So if there is interest in this just let me know. Right now I already can offer them MAIN TRANSMISSION ASSEMBLY, TAIL GEAR BOX, CABIN CEILING. I am planning to build both engines (academy's are way too simplified) for my next Black Hawk.

2 Mscottholt - If its possible I would appreciate every photo you'll send me. They all help a lot, and more of them I have - more accurate will be the detail. As I said before, if I only had chance to get close enough to Black Hawk with my camera Big Smile [:D]

I really like this aircraft!
Thanks for great pics

Andy

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HeavyArty

Member since
December 2002
From: Valrico, FL

Posted by HeavyArty on Tuesday, May 31, 2005 10:31 AM

QUOTE: Originally posted by mscottholt

Have you considered making resin casts? I'd buy the stuff from you. Hell I'll dig out every photo I can find and send it to you if that would help you.

Second the above. I would probably buy a few as well.

Gino P. Quintiliani - Field Artillery - The KING of BATTLE!!!

Check out my Gallery: https://app.photobucket.com/u/HeavyArty

"People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." -- George Orwell

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Anonymous

Member since
November 2005

Posted by Anonymous on Tuesday, May 31, 2005 6:46 AM

Have you considered making resin casts? I'd buy the stuff from you. Hell I'll dig out every photo I can find and send it to you if that would help you.

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intruder_bass

Member since
November 2013

Posted by intruder_bass on Monday, May 30, 2005 9:59 PM

to Trigger74 No, its not from clay Smile [:)]

its cylinder part from the kit but a little bit "modified". I just glued small pieces of plastic all around cylinder to make it look like cone. All the relief on it is Evergreen's styrene. On photo it is painted with grey primer, so it looks solid but its not Cool [8D]

andy

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Trigger

Member since
February 2004
From: Moooooon River!

Posted by Trigger on Monday, May 30, 2005 8:31 PM

QUOTE: Originally posted by intruder_bass

andy

Maybe my eyes deceive me but...is that carved out of...clay?!? Regardless of what it's made from, it looks great. Love those Eduard parts!

------------------------------------------------------------------ - Grant "Can't let that nest in there..."

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Avus

Member since
June 2003
From: Caput Mundi

Posted by Avus on Sunday, May 29, 2005 6:55 AM

I'm sorry HeavyArty, I wasn't thinking of you but of mogwa (thanks for dropping by)!

intruder_bass seeing your impressive work I've decided to pack my things and move to an other planet where my models don't have to compete with the accuracy of yours!

Klaus

Thanks to ImageShack for Free Image Hosting

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willuride

Member since
May 2015

Posted by willuride on Friday, May 27, 2005 6:17 PM

That thing is coming along great!!

On the bench Knoxville, TN:

1/48 Monogram F-4 Phantom "Black Bunny" I wanted to relive the past....Never again

On the Bench Manchester, TN:

1/48 Revell F-18E

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