Armed Escort Tiltrotor

Thanks for the pics, Trigger. Now I know what I'll be doing with that other 1/35 AH-1W...I'll be waiting for Cobra Company to put out an update set to make a -1Z!

QUOTE: Originally posted by LemonJello Thanks for the pics, Trigger. Now I know what I'll be doing with that other 1/35 AH-1W...I'll be waiting for Cobra Company to put out an update set to make a -1Z!

YES!!!! Now I have an excuse to pick up a second Whiskey! May be a while before Chris gets around too though, it considering they keep changing the configuration.

Rather wait and get the production version, but I want 1/48th(either update or new kit)

Hey, a road trip sounds good! I gotta go to BNOC though , after that it will be just about time for the new tricycle motor to get here.

Mac

Great pictures, but as others have noted, they are still developmental test aircraft, not combat aircraft. But I think the designs are pretty much stable at this point, although there will certainly be detail changes.

Trigger, the bottom picture is lovely Solomon's Island Maryland. That is the Thomas Johnson Bridge over the Patuxent River, and you can see the Chesapeake Bay in the background. I drive over the bridge every day on my way to work. Patuxent River NAS is on the other side of the river just out of the picture to the right.

Phil

True - details will change, but I thought they'd be a good indicator of things to come. They've given me ideas that I'd like to run by you later on if you don't mind.

Ah, okay... I think I passed under a different bridge (we were coming up from Charleston, SC), but I was half-right... I'd recognize Tidewater country any day!

Well, here are some progress pics. Progress has been a little slow, since I spent plenty of time staring at the parts to figure out how to do this. Tricky to get weapons and landing gear on this configuration. Plus the Citation fuselage needed plenty of bodywork to get rid of the doors and windows. I thought the design had a sleek "hot rod" look to it, so I decided to try to preserve that look. I decided against any sponsons other than modifying the Citation wing roots to provide a place to hang the weapons. I also decided on a Harrier type landing gear. It's tall enough to put a 4 rack of Hellfires or a rocket pod on the mini-sponsons, and there's room for a centerline pylon. This type of landing gear would be low drag, nice and stable, but it would prevent wing-folding. But if the blades all fold inward, it would be about the same size as a Harrier. I haven't worked on the outriggers yet. Today I started on the nose by adding a turret from a Commanche. (I just couldn't bring myself to rob parts from the only Whiskey Cobra I have!) I plan to do some reshaping on the nose and add a FLIR ball above the gun. So far so good, here are the pics. I added a pic with my HH-60H to provide a feel for size.





Comments and suggestions are welcome.

Phil

Build's looking pretty sharp Phil. I like how you were able to get four hellfire underneath. I forgot your HH-60H from a short while back so I'm looking forward to seeing this new build. Thanks for showing the two side-by-side for scale.

One question I have, based off of the landing gear. I was surprised you went with a bicycle configuration on an airframe such as this that has two heavy objects on either extreme of the wing. What about crosswind landings, pitching/rolling decks, etc.?

Lookin real good, Phil! I like the look of the Citation fuselage. I can only imagine the amount of putty that had to be used to blend all of that together. Great progress so far...I know what you mean about spending time just staring at the pieces, but sometimes that's the best way to plot it all out in your mind before you start in on the plastic. Can't wait to see more!

QUOTE: Originally posted by Trigger74 One question I have, based off of the landing gear. I was surprised you went with a bicycle configuration on an airframe such as this that has two heavy objects on either extreme of the wing. What about crosswind landings, pitching/rolling decks, etc.?

It will eventually have outriggers on the nacelles, so it should be plenty stable. Like this:
http://www.globalsecurity.org/intell/systems/eagle-eye.htm

Thanks for the comments guys. BTW LJ, I really like your MARPAT A-10! Excellent job! I'm still pondering the eventual finish for this, but that's tempting.

Phil

Coming along great

PARTS EVERYWHERE!!!!

The surgery has started in earnest. Relocating A-10 wings has turned out to be more of a job than I anticipated, but it will provide at least two wing hardpoints. I still need to grab a -64 for the cockpit and some weapons. This is really going to be a big, pie-in-the-sky beasty.

Mac

Four points - yup, that ought to work. Nice researching on that Phil!

Mac
- Sounds like you've got some real Dr. Moreau action planned with your A-10. What have you got in mind?

It sounds a bit under-armed, but I don't know where or how to add more weapons using what you've got. It looks good.

I LOVE that gun! The GAU-8 will be for any big stuff. I'm thinking Helfires/TOWs on the wings and 5.5' rockets in swing out bays ( I have to do something with those engine nacels ). I also have some 50 cals from a P-61 that could go on the fuselage.This may end up as an AF bird, or even Army (sneak it in as an armed rotory wing).

I finally got Photobucket working, so maybe I can show something when I figure out how to hang the wings on this thing.

Mac

Can a GAU-8 even be safely fired from a hover position?

I don't think that the GAU-8 could be safely fired from a hover. I'm thinking that this thing will have to have some serious power behind those props to keep flying when it is fired. I am leaning more to the CAS side of things anyway, escort will still be a secondary mission. I really just wanted to put alot of punch in it and have fun developing my scratchbuilding skills.

Mac

Genmtleman

First there is already a V22 platform in the works for spec ops and assualt work if i rember right it has the inflight refule probe, FLIR chaff flares and several armaments i jsut fo rth elife of me can not remember which chin mounted MG liek the AH-1/64 and i belive door mounted gatlin cannons and a ramp mounted 50 cali belive talk of a stinger like pod simular to whats on 64's for short range air defensequite often though the idea is to avoid a fight or let the USAF flyboys have fun while the v22 slipps in during the other action granted i can not give the sources at this time but as a USAF member that has watched the developpment of the Osprey and Raptor from the beging given some time i will find the right reference material for you

In-flight refueling is already a requirement of the V-22, as is FLIR and countermeasure dispensers. Those are already on there as tactics and doctrine dictate them as a necessity. There was talk of a chin mounted gun under the nose of the V-22, but that was deemed as something that could wait until later - or something along those lines. In other words, no one's holding their breath over that happening.

You can stick a .50 cal on the tail ramp, just like on an MH-53M, but as with the CH-46, that ramp is the primary means of getting a bunch of dudes on or off in a hurry. A gun and gunner gets in the way of that, especially if litters are involved. And a ramp gunner isn't the same as a side gunner. The problem with side guns on the Osprey is the same as a Black Hawk with the HSSS system installed - you limit the gun azimuth. With the Black Hawk it's a couple of drop tanks (you can lose those), but with the Osprey, the problem is the engine nacelle. Can't dump those.

Stingers? Never heard of that. Is it safe to say that the biggest threat to an Osprey will come from below? I know that this is why all USAF and USMC aircraft these days are shades of gray - to hide against the sky from ground fire, not to hide them against the ground from enemy fighters.

Screaminhelo -
could you shoot me an e-mail please?

More reference photo - maybe these will help give people ideas:

Very cool picture of the OV-10 with the 20mm turret in the belly. I've never seen that before.

Neat OV-10 pictures. I've always really liked the Bronco gunship. In fact I have a couple of sketches around here of my Citation fuselage with the gun turret in the back!

Phil

Neat little project

Alright, I broke down and ordered my Mohawk and Osprey donor kits just a few minutes ago. So, that will make my entry in this little discussion. I hope to be getting started on that one soon.

Also started to modify my 1/48 V-22 to make my AV-22 gunship...I cut all the molded-on pax seating out of the back and started to pencil in some gunports on the port/left side to start working some ideas on the weapons. I'll post some pics once I get something worth showing done.

LJ -
So how are you planning on painting this new Mud-mover of yours?

Question for all the Marines around here....
I'm planning on this being a USMC aircraft and was working on some unit markings. I'm trying to figure out the USMC system for squadron designation and I'm looking at a VMLA- prefix. Am I on the right path with that or tilting aginst a windmill? Don't have a number yet - not sure if it should be a new number or take over an existing number. Suggestions welcome.

Trigger, No idea on the paint scheme yet. Too soon to even contemplate that. I doubt it will be standard greys, though.

VMLA- sounds about right to me, but I'm not an air winger, all those designations confuse this old grunt. I would guess that it would be a new unit, but it could also replace an old one as they transition over to the new airframe.

Edited:Heck, it's a "What If" so you can mark it as VMX-1 if you really wanted to, Trigger!

Ya know, I thought about that. But I decided that I would want to display it along my MV-22B and I wanted the Osprey to have operational markings (any 1/48 CH-46 builders out their who won't use the gray operational decals? )

Trigger, I follow your thinking on the squadron designator, and allow me to offer my suggestions.
The "L" in your VMLA (assuming you took it along the lines of the HML/A) would connotate a "light" lift capability. Marine skid squadrons have an "L" designator because the Huey can be utilized in a light-lift role. I'm assuming your armed tiltrotors won't be carrying much cargo, so we'll leave the "L" out.
Where does that leave us? VMA? Sounds like a Harrier squadron, so maybe we'd need a new letter to denote the tiltrotor classification. That's where I'm slightly confused.
The Osprey training squadron at New River was previously VMMT-204. Now that "T" was for training, not tiltrotor, I'm 95% sure. Later, the unit was redesignated as VMX-22. Not sure if the "X" is classifying the tiltrotor designation, or the training mission.
Maybe ridleusmc or supercobra, who are a little closer to the active-duty buzz than I am, can throw out a suggestion.
VMXA-???
For numbers, maybe you convert an existing Harrier, or God forbid, a skid squadron to the new airframe. Better yet, pretend the Corps got a budget windfall and just formed brand-new squadrons.....

Now I would have thought X meant test/evaluation (as in VX-4) but then there's HMX-1...

LJ - AH-1Wsnake's got me thinking that I may stand corrected regarding your VMX-1. I thought that was an eval designation, but now I'm not so sure.

Not planning on converting a skid unit. I may be crazy, but I ain't suicidal. If not a budget windfall unit, then maybe a former Harrier unit as I doubt they'll replace AV-8Bs with F-35Bs on a one-for-one basis and some units stand the chance of being disbanded.

I'm pretty sure the X designator comes from experimental and means Test & Evaluation or Operational Evaluation. All our squadrons here at Pax River are designated with an X. That being said, I'm not sure how HMX-1 got that designation.

How about a new designation, like HMA? Just leave the L, M or H out, since it won't be carrying much if any cargo. And to me it seems that a tiltrotor should be in an H squadron instead of a V squadron. Although maybe we do need a new designator for the tiltrotor, then we can put the V-22 in heavy tiltrotor squadrons and the escorts in light tiltrotor squadrons.

Phil