Armed Escort Tiltrotor

Me niether! I'm avidly following this Thread because of the interesting designs and concepts being put forth here! You guys are doing an incredible job!

QUOTE: Me niether! I'm avidly following this Thread because of the interesting designs and concepts being put forth here! You guys are doing an incredible job!

Phil and Trigger have something to show and Squadron has put a wrench in LJ's project. I'm just over here cutting plastic and flying by the seat of my pants. I hope that I will have the sponsons close enough to finished this week to at least show you guys where this thing is headed.

LJ-
I was at the LHS today and saw a Roden Mohawk on the shelf. Let me know buddy, and I'll be glad to show Squadron what on time service is....at least after Tuesday

Trigger-
I found my canopy, along with other assorted -64 parts. Let me know if you need anything else.

Mac

Latest update. I've been working on details. Added the FLIR, gun turret, pitots, started on antennas, etc. You can see the refueling probe on the left side of the nose. I also added some more ALE-47 buckets under the nose. You can never have enough flares and chaff. I have more details to add, but some will be added after paint. I'm getting ready for paint, so before I do, can anyone see anything missing? I'm thinking just a basic USMC gray paint scheme. I want to build a V-22 to go with it, and I want the escort to look like a currently-fielded aircraft.




Screamin, glad to hear you're working. I need something else to look at.

Phil

That looks awesome Phil!!!


Mac
- Thanks, but I should be good parts-wise. Did Rusty have anything cool on his shelves? I'm taking a day or two off in the next week or so and I'll be down in the greater ATL area.

I posted a link in the Reference section for some great nose cannon and European helo armor reference pics for you guys that are interested. Pages 2-6 are the helo stuff. :

http://www.finescale.com/fsm/community/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=50528

-Adam

Looks great, Phil

Great job Phil!! That thing really looks down to business and ready to go. Seeing your work really makes me realize some of the things that I haven't thought out.

How are y'all leaning on ASE gear? I am caught somewhere in between because of the difference between the mission profile and the in-route profile.

Trigger-
Nothing jumped into my hands and said buy me this time although the 1/35 Apache did try. I started to get the Hobbycraft H-21, but I wasn't sure if that one is the good kit or not. I'll have to check the old reviews on that one.

Mac

How about some wire cutters?

Ooooh, yeah... we'll need some of those too. Thanks for the reminder. Heh heh heh... more junk to make my Bulldog look as ugly as sin...

Right, supercobra, definitely forgot some wire cutters. Thanks.

Mac, I have some ASE gear on mine. (I ll assume you mean the survivability package). I have plume detectors on the nose and tail. I have one set of laser detectors under the wing looking forward, I should probably make up another set to look aft. I,m not sure what to do about the ALQ-144. It''s on helos, but not fixed wing a/c. The V-22 doesn't have one so I'm not sure whether I should on the escort. Looks like a lot of drag. (BTW, if I'm confused about some of this equipment, somebody correct me)

Thanks for the suggestions.

Phil

That thing is looking awesome. Keep it up.

As far as an ALQ-144 or a substitute - look at how the MH-53 solves that problem (you can't put a disco ball up to due to the potition of the rotor disc). It has two seperate systems, each covering 180 degrees mounted on the outermost tip of the sponson, right above the fuel tank.

QUOTE: Originally posted by Trigger74 As far as an ALQ-144 or a substitute - look at how the MH-53 solves that problem (you can't put a disco ball up to due to the potition of the rotor disc). It has two seperate systems, each covering 180 degrees mounted on the outermost tip of the sponson, right above the fuel tank.

The -53 uses the ALQ-157. I didn't think about that one. It would be perfect for this application. Check out this site for info and details.

http://www.aiaa.org/tc/sur/Pages/ALQ-157M.pdf

I am puzzleing over wire cutters and where to place them.

Mac

Yeah, I'll come right out and say it...I'm jealous! That's some mighty fine work, Phil! Keep the updates coming!

Thanks for the offer, Screaminhelo, but I think I've got the order sorted out and it should be on its way! Then I can start to play some catch up with the rest of you.

QUOTE: Originally posted by supercobra How about some wire cutters?

OK, added some wire cutters. One between the FLIR and the gun. One on top of the nose. One on top of the fuselage and one on the lower fuselage. I would think that would be adequate in helo mode, but I have no idea about STOL or airplane modes. Any other suggestions?



Thanks for the compliments and suggestions. Keep them coming.

Phil

The closest thing to wire cutters I can think of on fixed-wing aricraft are the razor wires on Fulton equipped HC-130s. Those two lines that ran from the forward fuselage to the wing tips were sharp so as to cut the line between the balloon and the poor schumck on the ground to keep it from getting caught and entangled in a propellor (that would be one heck of a way to wind someone up!).

The propellor discs on your airframe would make such a system improbable I would think. I'm not aware of the V-22 having any wire cutting ability in horizontal flight (or vertical flight for that matter - you're a step ahead of it in that regard).

At long last, the rest of my donor kit has arrived! My hands were itching to get started on the mock up but I was able to resist until after dinner at least. I'll get some photos posted once I have a general idea of what I'm doing. So far I have the V-22 wing taped together, as well as the Mohawk's fuselage. I started cutting the sponsons off the V-22 as well, they'll be going on to give the Mohawk body a different profile.

I was looking at the main gear bays on the OV-1, with the idea of grafting them into the V-22 wings, but I just don't see it happening. I may have to adapt them to go in the sponsons. Plus, I want to use the V-22 tail, but that'll take some serious surgery.

Once I get past the structural hurdles, then I can start to think about weapons. Lots and lots of weapons...

Not much progress this weekend, but I have started to paint. Maybe some new pics in a few days. After paint I'll work on decals, so I have started to think seriously about markings and have a couple questions.

First question is about tail codes. I have a big list of squadrons and tail codes. Is there a pattern to it that I don't see? I'll probably use a new squadron like an HMA or HMFA, so is there an appropriate tail code, or just one that's not in use?

Next question is about squadron markings. This may have been discussed before, but is there a general USMC policy about markings and/or nose art or is it left to the individual squadrons? For example, the AV-8B squadrons seem to use the rudder to paint artwork. The AH-1W squadrons seem to have less artwork, sometimes there is something on the engine cowlings or on top of the nose. Any limits or restriction about such things?

So LJ, how's the mockup coming? Looking forward to seeing it!

Thanks,
Phil

The mock up is coming along nicely, thanks. I really got going this weekend, there were plastic shavings flying everywhere and most of a wrecked V-22 fuselage in the garbage (I kept the nose and sponsons). I was all ready to get some early photos, and wouldn't you know it? Dead batteries in the camera. Hope to get some photos taken tonight, though. I actually stopped work because I wanted to show you guys some early test shots, but major surgery has occured. The Mohawk's belly has been gutted to make for a better fit of the Osprey sponsons, gonna need some putty there...I lopped off most of the Mohawk's tail and I'm going to graft on the V-22 twin tails in its place. She's going to be ugly, that's for sure.

Looking at the Osprey nose, I think I can make my design a cannon-nosed beast. Two guns fixed and firing from the nose, and an Apache-style chain gun where the nose gear bay is supposed to be for some traverse and tracking firepower... Still have to work out some hardpoints for rocket pods or hellfires (where am I going to get hellfires??? Another kit? the boss won't be happy about that...) Oh, a sensor turret/system is starting to take shape for the upper nose as well.

QUOTE: Originally posted by Par429 First question is about tail codes. I have a big list of squadrons and tail codes. Is there a pattern to it that I don't see? I'll probably use a new squadron like an HMA or HMFA, so is there an appropriate tail code, or just one that's not in use? Next question is about squadron markings. This may have been discussed before, but is there a general USMC policy about markings and/or nose art or is it left to the individual squadrons? For example, the AV-8B squadrons seem to use the rudder to paint artwork. The AH-1W squadrons seem to have less artwork, sometimes there is something on the engine cowlings or on top of the nose. Any limits or restriction about such things?

The way tail codes are supposed to work is that the first letter is A-M for NAVAIRLANT
(East Coast squadrons) and the second letter is supposed to be A-Z. For NAVAIRPAC (West Coast squadrons) it is N-Z for the first letter and A-Z for the second letter. The letters I and O are not used because they look like 1 and 0. The reference is OPNAV 3710.7T appendix B. You can google for that instruction and find it but that is basically all it says. Of course letters get reused when squadrons decommision and squadrons get moved coast to coast so that system doesn't match up most anymore. If you are creating a new squadron I would just go through your list and pick a combination that is not being used. Here is a list but it is dated 1995: http://www.history.navy.mil/avh-1910/APP23.PDF
Did you have a newer list?

Technically, one aircraft per squadron can be marked in non-standard markings but some squadrons mark all aircraft with subtle unit logos. Fixed wing squadrons tend to add more colorful unoffical markings than the rotory-wing squadrons. Noseart type markings aren't allowed but if it is subtle and PC most of it is allowed.

Supercobra-
Thanks for the info. The various squadrons moving around make it hard to figure out. My list of squadrons and tailcodes comes from a 2003 issue of Naval Aviation News which devoted a whole issue to USMC aviation. That and a 2004 issue of Air Combat International which did a special issue on Naval aviation including the Marines. I also found a couple websites which list tailcodes, but I'm never sure how up to date or reliable websites are.

Phil

Baseball playoffs and a sudden relapse of CivIII addiction have conspired to take me away from the bench. I still need to get some photos taken of my "Dragonfly" (I think that's what I'll call her) so you all can see what's going on.

I just remembered that this weekend I'll be camping with Son of LemonJello for Cub Scouts...no real chance until maybe Sunday to post any updates, but I'll get them done.

Wow ,this is an interesting thread !
CFR

Some progress pictures. I painted it in a Marines Harrier-type paint scheme. I thought the rotor blades would stand out too much if I painted them black, so I used Gunship Gray. I couldn't resist painting some sort of decoration on the tail, so I painted some stripes on the rudder like an early WWII Navy aircraft (my other area of modelling/historical interest) I have also finished the landing gear. I took an easy out and depicted the landing gear bays to look like the doors close after the gear is down, like a Harrier. It looks good and save a bunch of work making gear bays. All the landing gear are on aluminum tubes and are removable so I can display it on a stand in aircraft mode If I want. It looks a lot sleeker in aircraft mode.





Next up is decals. I'm working on a decal sheet for it. Mostly I plan to use markings from a Harrier kit, but I need a few extras like squadron numbers and tail codes, etc. I have also started on weapons. I'm not sure what the final configuration will be, but at least one rack of Hellfires and one LAU-61 rocket pod. Not sure about the third pylon.

Comments and suggestions welcome.

Phil

Looks like it could take to the air, great job Phil

Excellent as always Phil! I got a couple of binders full of decals so if there's something you're looking for, give me a shout.

Looks great. I hate to mention this because it is probably too late but if that is an M-197 20mm gun it looks like the turret is too small to house the breach, feeder, drive motor, and elev and azimuth motors. It should be deeper (taller).

supercobra-
I would agree that the turret looks small. But since i didn't want to take parts from the only Whiskey Cobra on the shelf, the gun is from a Commanche kit. I reshaped the turret slightly to make it fit better (and disguise its origins), but I didn't make it any smaller. The Commache was supposed to have an XM301 gun, which from what I can tell is an improved M197, purposely designed to be smaller for the Commanche (the cost of stealth). The link below is to a PDF file with a good comparison between the XM301 and the M197, although it is only the gun and not the turret controls.

dtic.mil/ndia/2001gun/Talley.pdf

You're correct in that it's probably too late for me to make any significant changes. But thanks for the comments, it will give the others who are still in the design phase something else to think about.

Phil

Awesome! That bird is incredible! I love how you added the outrigger wheels to the engine sponsons. that was a stroke of genius!

At long last, as promised, I've gotten some mock-up shots to show you guys. Let me start by saying, she's never going to win a beauty contest...And I'm going to really work on my puttying/filling/sanding skills with this one.

So, here we go...

Side View:


Nose-on:


From Above:


The Osprey nose will be faired into the Mohawk to give me a forward gun bay, and a longer overall nose to the bird. Like I said, there will be a lot of putty on this one to fill some of the holes and gaps, but at least you all can see what I've been doing and give me some welcome advice or ask some questions to keep me thinking through this project.

Edited to add:
Phil,
I knew yours was looking good, but dang! it really looks sharp. I've got to work out my landing gear situation, I like the solution you went with, but I think I'll try to adapt parts from my donor kits to work for mine.