Vietnam Huey

Looks like a Gunship Gray with a black-brown wash to me.  I think it is too dark though.  A medium or primer gray looks right to my eyes.

For seat belts, I use lead foil, the type found on wine bottle tops.

Back to modeling,

I need your advice for my huey guys, none of the greys i use for the padding in the crew section look right although everyone says the padding was just grey, in almost every photo i have seen im sure there is some green in there, my girlfriend swears its a bluey grey color maybe im a bit colored blind but i cant seem to find the right color, i know under the padding was light grey and alot of models show the padding in a very light grey.

I found some great pictures of a huey build and this is the padding color i want! can anyone please tell me what it is.

This is the best revell 1/32 huey slick i have seen, I've got more pictures and the link to the guys site if anyone is interested.

If anyone has some detailed pictures of the back of huey pilots seats i would realy appreciate it

Also any ideas on whats best to use for making the seat belts.

Thanks in advance guys

Andy

P.S Thanks Arty for the masking tape info

If you go all the way back to the first page of this thread you'll find the info I posted on the "Vietnam Choppers" book along with many other refs.  Here it is again in case anyone is interested:

Vietnam Choppers-Helicopters in Battle 1950-1975, ospey Publishing, Simon Dunstan, ISBN 1-84176-796-4, 207 pp.  If you ever wondered how almost every helicopter around figured into the Vietnam War, this is your book.  Lots of pictures and historical accounts of the ways each type of chopper was used in battle.

I was just reading the above when I found this statement:

 "Development of helicopter armament subsystms had continued apace in Vietnam and at Fort Rucker, FLORIDA-the home of US Army Aviation." p.89.  I have to confess this makes me question much of the book's content.  For anyone who doesn't know, Ft. Rucker is in Alabama near the town of Dothan, not Florida!  Dunston even thanks them in the Acknowledgements! 

Andy,

I believe a "bloody" Brit has already written a good book titled "Vietnam Choppers" by Simon Dunstan.  It was published by Osprey in 1988.  Covers from 1959 to 1975.  The front two pages are cutaway drawings of the UH-1B and the back pages a CH-47. 

Just got the revell patrol set off evilbay for the rear crew seats for the UH-1H/D and they are pants lol, has anyone scratch built the huey seats or is it just me, ive used masking tape and some sprue for the support poles , but i have heard that tin foil is also good for fake canvass seats,

Before i glue these tape seats in place could anyone tell me if aluminium foil will last longer as i dont know if painted masking tape will come apart in time or not.

Thanks

Andy 

Snakedriver,

Thanks mate that means a 'bloody' lot coming from a cobra pilot! My back could never hurt to much to give you guys a bow   i would love to write a book on hueys but i havnt earnt the right. I will leave that to you, "Special breed of madmen" (the Joe Galloway quote that Melgyver pointed out) Plus you guys would only get upset if a 'bloody' Brit wrote a book on the subject lol

Andy

   You guys are absolutely ('bloody' for our UK mates) amazing! Has anyone thought of packing all of this research into a book? I am in awe of the effort and co-operation that takes place on these threads. If my back were not so darned stiff, I would give you all a bow.

Blue Max 68T1

Hi all

I've been looking for more pictures of Bushrangers and Nighthawk/Fireflys for modeling reference and found these, i thought they might come in handy for anyone else planning on building them.

Bushranger:

Nighthawk:

Although this picture shows the minigun and 50 cal on the same side im pretty sure that the minigun was placed there just for the photo. according to the info on the nighthawk in these pictures, it was usualy armed with minigun and searchlight on one side, 50 cal and M60 on the other. The searchlight was an xenon light from an M60 tank, Cluster lights from C-130's were also used.

I read somewhere on this forum about WHITE huey medivacs in Vietnam (cant remember where)and a lack of pictures of them, i came across this so thought i would add it.

Here's a rare picture of twin door mounted 60's that might help for your bushranger (though i should point out if your building twin 60's for the bushranger remember not to use 60's with spade grips) 

Also some rare shots of a UH-1C gunship with the FLIR nose mounted sensor.

Hope they come in handy

Andy

My Frog arrived today and as you all said, it does contain parts for the miniguns. I have a couple of questions. As im using the miniguns i wont be adding the nose mounted grenade launcher so wont be needing the ammo chute or ammo holder in the rear cabin. Looking at the sprues it looks like theres an ammo box for the minigun and what looks like the rear seat.

Has anyone got the instructions for the seats and ammo box as they dont come in the frog kit i expect its the bits from the "muskets" version.

Also i wanted to build the M158 rocket launchers without rockets in, does anyone have any good ideas what i can use for the hollow tubes that would be right for 1/35 scale.

Thanks

Andy

I was just surfing around the Us Army Tacom site and I found this:

http://tri.army.mil/LC/CS/csa/aaarmsy2.htm#Sagami

 Sagami Mount. The Sagami mount was a door mount for the M60D, 7.62mm machine gun for the U.H-1B/U.H-1C "Huey". It was very similar to the M23 armament subsystem. The Sagami mount was produced at the U.S. Army Depot, Sagami, Japan. The Sagami mount saw limited production (over 1,000 units were built).

 If this info is correct (and this IS an Army site) I guess we've all been wrong about where this mounting system came from.  Then again, the site claims it was for the M60D and there are several pics in this thread of the Sagami mount being used with M60A's and even .50 cals so I guess nothing is perfect.  Just thought there might be some interest in the info.

    Ray
 

Hello to all rotor heads!

The Huey is my favorite. As a Boonie Rat in Beeville TX I used to run outside and watch them fly over our house in trail formation. I still have photos of the returning UH1C-D models on the flight line after coming back from Vietnam. My father flew them for two tours in The 'Nam and in the National Guard. He also has some time in the OH6 LOH which he said the AC dampered down for him because it is such a touchy bird. 

Anyway, I thought I would try to add some photos from the 253 plus and growing archive. Some of these  are from the 'Sharks' and 'Dolphins' of the 174th AHC. Im modeling 4 of it's UH-1C in MS Flight Simulator 2002/2004 right now to include 'Witch Doctor' 'Grim Reaper' 'Surfer' and 'Ace of Spades'. It's my tribute to them and will include the three air fields they flew from. and later releases of their ships like "Mexican Express" "Smokey", etc. 

I also collect Vietnam Army Aviation militaria and have a 'Dolphin' pocket patch among the collection. Still holding out for 'Sharks' patch someday. I thought I'd never get a Comanchero but I did. The 174th deserves a movie. Hell, all of Air Cav does. If you havent been to their website, just google 174th AHC, You'll be happy you did. 

 Some amazing work here on those kits. Especially the Mustang ship. Incredible.

 I will be taking some very detailed pictures of a real UH-1C to XM gun system and 40mm. I'll post them on Sunday or Monday. If anyone has any other requests, tail rotor assembly, weapons brackets, etc let me know. I'll get them for you. Im taking them to try to find out if this is a 174th ship so I can let them know.

Melgyver, thanks for your service with the Witch Doctors. You'll be the first to know.

Shot over.

Dinky Dao Numba 10 

Grandadjohn,

  Yep the Squadron UH-1 gunship walkaround book is probably the BEST source for an overall view of the weapons system used on the Huey in Vietnam.  The photos and text depict Hueys armed as described above.  All HA(L)-3 ships in that volume have th M156 mounting system installed as far as I can tell.  For a list of the refs I consult before writing posts see page 1 of this thread.

     Ray
 

Grandadjohn,

  I would love to see a photo of a Seawolves Huey with a mounting system other than the M156 universal mount.  Every photo and ref I can find only refer to M156 mounting system.  The Marines used the TK-2 (Temporary Kit 2) mounting system on their E models which was a modification of the TK-1 mounting system developed for the UH-34D.   The Air Force had a simple mount for which I can find no official designation that allowed them to mount their LAU-59/A 7 shot launchers to their 20th SOF F models (P models technically since they were armed gunships).  You can also find photos of 20th SOF UH-1P's with the M156 mounting system.  Basically, as my father told me, "you used what you could get your hands on", or so it would appear.

    Ray
 

Huey's used by the Seawolves, other then early one's drawn from Army stock used thier own weapons systems has did the Marines and AF.

Has for the H model, if indeed it is in a NVA museum, I wouldn't take it as standard

Phantom Works,

  Looks like an H model to me.  I see the roof mounted pitot and the late Vietnam era anti-strella exhaust.  Don't know why they would put M200 19 shot rocket pods on it other than to make it look "cooler."  By the way, it looks to me like the mounting system for the rockets is not the standard Army M156 universal mount.  At first I thought it might be the TK-2 system used by the Marines, but it doesn't look quite right.  below are pics of the two that you can compare.  A mixed up bird for sure!

       Ray 

here's the TK-2 mount on a Marine E model (notice the inboard paired 60's)

[

Here's the M156 universal mount on a B model w/M200 rocket pods and M5 40mm grenade launcher.

Ed,

  That was agreat idea to write TACOM.  Here is the official reply in its entirety.  I think it clears this issue up once and for all.

This is in response to your inquiry regarding the naming of the
different weapon systems involving the designation of XM versus M.

The XM vice M designation does in fact indicate an experimental versus a
type classified item.  While an item which requires eventual type
classification is being developed, it carries the XM designation along
with an experimental Line Item Number that starts with a "Z" (ZLIN).
LINs are assigned to programs of record, funded by Congressional
appropriation, that require tracking through the life cycle process.
After an item has successfully passed developmental testing and is
approved for production and fielding, it is officially type classified
and the XM and ZLIN become M and LIN.  The number part of the XM/M
designation is usually assigned in numerical sequence, although special
numbers can be assigned such as was done for the M1 Tank, the M9, 9mm
Pistol, etc.  From 1900 thru the 1960s, the number part of the model
designation was in many cases the year in which the item was type
classified, such as the M1911A1, .45 cal Pistol, the M1918 BAR, the
M1903 Springfield Rifle, the M60 Machinegun, etc.

The Viet Nam items that still carry an XM designation were technically
sent to Viet Nam as developmental items and were never taken to type
classification after the war ended.  In some cases it was because the
item did not prove to be what the Army wanted and no more were planned
for production, or the remaining density was small enough that it didn't
warrant a TC action, or possibly because it just dropped through the
cracks and no one took action to process the TC action. 

I hope this information is helpful to you.

Best regards,

Rebecca Montgomery
Public Affairs
U.S. Army TACOM LCMC Rock Island 
309-782-5838  DSN: 793

Hi all,

  I did'nt read all of this thread so Im not sure if the HA(L)-3 aircraft were

mentioned regarding the use of the .50 cal gun out of the right door on several

aircraft in different dets. If you check out the Seawolves website, there are

a few pics of Bravo and Charlie model UH-1s with this big gun on board.

I found this totally by chance today.............it appears to be in a NVA museum........isn't this a D model?

Ray:

I did a search for TACOM and found their site. If you go to their home page, on the bottom left is a contact us link. I would try directing a question to their historian on weapons numbers and see what happens.

If you write to TACOM let us know what you find out.

Ed

Ed,

  Thanks for the info.  I am very familiar with that site, it just never quite registered that it was an OFFICIAL Army website.   Not to throw a wrinkle in things, but the website lists the XM157 rocket system (see photo below) and I know this system was used extensively in Vietnam (it differed from the M158 rocket pods in that the rocket tubes were not seperate and could not be replaced individually).  However, the site appears to be the most consistant info on weapons systems and I will use their designations in posts from now on. Thanks,  Ray 

M-21 armament system with XM(?)157 rocket pods 

[/img]

Mac,

  My dad's description of the monkey harness (which he calls a monkey belt) consists of a single belt attached to the central part of the floor of the helicopter against the back wall that went around your waiste and kept you from exiting the ship during tight turns and when you were firing standing on the skids.  

    Ray

rotorwash wrote:

Rich,   I'm glad you liked the pics.  I got my father's blessing to post them so you are welcome to copy them.  If you want to post them anywhere else, My father's name is Dewey Wilhite and he was with the 190th AHC in Ben Hoa from '68-69.  I'm sorry but I don't have any pics that show the monkey harness very well.  I have over 1,000 pics thta I have downloaded from the net of UH-1's and none show the monkey harness well either.  Perhaps one of our resident doorgunners/crew chiefs (Howie, Mel, or Grandadjohn) could help you out.  Ray

Depending on which Type of harness you are referring to, I can get some pics.  I have one of the modified vests around here somewhere and I have a harness in my locker (if ALSE hasn't already snagged it).  Did y'all use one fo these two maybe?  I'll post pics when I can.

Mac

In my brothers unit, The 176th AHC, they had chrome plated the mini guns on one of their gunships. This is the same one that was made into a model by MPC as their 1/35th scale Huey.

Here's the link to their units site.

 http://members.aol.com/mm27176th/

Here are the pictures of the chromed mini guns

This one had Chrome trim on the mini guns 

http://tri.army.mil/LC/CS/csa/aahist2.htm#Gun

 Here is a site that might clear up some of the mystery on the gun system naming. I noticed that whenever it talked about XM the statement said this was a research and development system. Go to page two and you can find many weapons systems. I noticed that I think this was a TACOM site. TACOM are the folks that manage the weapons systems and provide field tech support to the troops. Let me know if this helps.

Ed

OK, I just got off the phone with dad so I thought I would share his recollections on a few of the things we have been talking about.  Now remember, his memory proabably isn't perfect and my retelling porobably isn't as well.  Also, we both agree that the particulars only apply to the 190th AHC from 68-69 and other units may have had a different SOP. 

    Because dad had a small arms MOS he was in a unique position to comment on the armament systems.  Beginning with the M60.

   -Whether forearms were on or off the M60A's depended on what they had for supply.  Dad emphasized that you never knew from one day to the next what would be available.  However, most M60A's were probably operated with the forearm in place (note that M60D's never had forearms).

   -Whether or not the barrels had the bipods attached also depended on what was available and how much time the gun had in the armament shop.  It took some effort to get them off (you had to remove the flash suppressor, etc.) so if the barrels came with bipods, the gunners usually got them with bipods.  My dad took them off of his own personal weapon and many others as well, but he said slick gunners (M60D's)regularly had them on their guns because he didn't have time to remove them.  

    -As a safety feature, the barrels were regularly removed from the gunship doorguns when the ship landed temporarly (say a rice paddy dike).  Dad said you just had to lift a single lever with a half pin attached and the barrel came right out.  This was much easier than unloading the gun and having to reload when you took off again.  since the M60 fires from an open bolt, this rendered the gun safe and unfireable.  Also, frequently barrels would burn the inside lining out during heavy use.  The gunner has an asbestos glove for handling the hot barrel in flight.  Below is a photo of a crew cheif with a 60 minus the barrel so you can see what that might look like.  Sorry for the poor quality, but its what I got!

  - Although it hasn't been discussed much here I thought you all might also be interested in some closeups of the m-134 minigun of the M-21 system.  The minis were only regularly removed when the ship was in for scheduled maintenance (Phase).  Here is a pic of a couple of M-134's in the armament shop.  This should be a great ref for thos e wanting to super detail 1/35 minis.

Here's another of dad holding two M-134'.  They really look a lot larger than they are. 

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I hope some of you guys find this stuff as interesting as I do.  Mainly, I'm just proud to be my dad's son, and I want others to know what he did.  NEVER FORGET!

   Ray