Vietnam Huey

An interesting and complex subject, Andy, and I agree with Ray: there's too much information in print to include in this thread. Still, this is a good place to start.

I'd be happy to answer any questions I'm able, though I'm no UH-1 expert. I did fly the A and B models in flight school as trainers, and flew the UH-1C in Vietnam. I was with Alpha Troop, 7th Squadron, 17th Air Cavalry, based at Camp Enari in Pleiku in 1967, and most of our C-models were armed with the XM-21 weapons sub-systems. (General Electric GAU-2B/A miniguns x 2, 2.75 inch FFAR rocket launchers (cluster-tube type) x 2, and two bungee-mounted M60s for door guns. Several of our aircraft had the rocket launchers, no miniguns, but instead the XM-5 40mm grenade launcher turret on the nose. For information on this unit see: http://www.ruthlessriders.net/

For some amusement you can look into: http://aircavalry17.tripod.com/steinbrunnltr.htm

After 7 months I was transferred to the 189th Assault Helicopter Company (Ghostriders) at Camp Holloway, also in Pleiku, and there I flew the UH-1H. For more information on this unit see: http://www.189thahc.org/

Best of luck to you rotorheads,

--Bob

Rich

Cheers for the site mate, looks good.

Andy

hi,

Have a look at this site. It's a bloke in the UK, not far from where I live, about an hour by road, 5 mins by Huey. He bought an old Huey and rebuilt it and got it flying again. There are some great pics and references on it. It'll keep you amused for an hour or so.

www.huey.co.uk

Rich

Andy

Thanks for the photo, never saw that one before, rest of the armament systems I have seen before.

Glad it wasn't me in that one, like I said dropping bombs like that from helo's is risky, but it is fesible. Only other one's I have ever seen photo's of where CH-54's dropping the BIG one to make LZ's

Hello John

Thanks for the info, The huey with napalm attached was from B Troop, 1st Squadron, of the 9th cav. Here is the link to the picture, it says they dropped them individually by pulling a piece of commo wire attached to the emergency lever on the bomb shakle , its a UH-1B also pictured armed with twin m60 door guns, a 50 cal door gun and a 20mm subsystem!! Inventivness at its best

http://www.vhpamuseum.org/9thcav/1stsquad/1stsquadbTroop.shtml

Andy

If I remeber right the Huey's used in "We Were Soldiers" were from a Ga NG unit. Most D models were converted to H standards after 1967.

Never saw a Huey armed with Napalm canistors, could have been aux fuel tanks(they were mounted on the pylons) or rocket pods. Dropping bombs from helo's is a very risky business, need speed and altitude to escape blast but sacrifice accuracy when you do so

Best bet when building any Huey is to find a good photo and build from that

David,

  I am more interested in knowing the details from a historical perspective than anything else.  Little things like the fact that almost all doorgunners used old C-ration cans to make the feed mechanism work better in their 60's is really trivial to most folks, but I find it interesting and indicative of the "necessity is the mother of invention" mentality that characterized the Vietnam War.  No high tech gizmos or computer driven weapons, just good old American inginuity! 

      Ray
 

Im currently attempting to build the crew section of my 1/32 UH-1H, tackling the seats as we speak, so far iv used sum old oars cut up from a galley ship for the poles for the crew & gunners seats with a bit of masking tape for the canvass its looking ok but im not sure. If anyone else has tackled this yet and has some tips, ive heard some people have used foil! does this work well ?? any help with things to use for the seats would be great .. thanks

Andy 

p.s. i have noticed some of the slick door gunners had a single seat instead of the usual bench type. anyone know why?

Ray

Well spotted, I dont suppose there are many 1D's left now if they were converted to 1H's in the 60s i dunno wouldnt of hurt to put a coupla fake antenna on the noses but for the cost and agro compared to the amount that would notice i spose it was cheaper to overlook, but the dodgy CGI huey approuch phase made me squirm lol but hey .. the technical boys tried lol . There are a few innacuracies in the film but i suppose that things have to be squashed down and jazzed up a bit to compete with the fictional films.

As far as the armaments go i think that the minigun was first used in Vietnam in december of 64 by the CH-47s, and i think the M21 subsystem was introduced in 64 along with the M23 door pintle mount for the 60's. but whether completely factual or not i was just glad that someone had made a film with hueys playing a staring role. with the skyraider doing what it does best and that gunship coming over the ridge with miniguns blazing insured that there would always be a copy of this film in my collection

Andy

Well said Ray.

To follow up on the point, also know that the helos used in the movie ACrockosh*t Now were mainly H models. I used to work for a company that supplied thier surplus B model to the movie companies, and it would get the typical wash-off temporary movie paint as required for the scene it was to be in.  It served many roles over the years.

 I do believe that there is an older, out of print book, "Building the UH1 Huey" that you may latch onto. As with all refernces, verify and consider anything from Wikipedia to be dubious.

In the end, let this be a hobby that we enjoy......not get so tangled up in counting rivets that we burn out and forget to have fun!

 David

That was some great UH-1A and UH-1B early armament footage.  Thanks!  I love that scene from We Were Soldiers, but I am pretty sure that the XM-21 system wasn't around when the Ia Drang battle took place (November 1965), but it is still great to see those minis rock and roll!  Also, the Hueys are mostly H models (pitot tube on roof instead of paired on the nose), but D models were used in the actual battle.  Finally, the doorgunners in the slicks have "free" 60s on bungees, but to my and my dad's knowledge, slicks always carried pintle mounted 60s.  I still love the movie, but I thought you might be interested in at least those innacuracies that I have noticed.   Ray

Nice one Ray, found a few copies handy site, thanks

Andy

Andy,

  Go to Bookfinder.com and select UK as destination.  Most of the Huey books can be found through this used and new book search.  Good luck.  Ray 

Ray

 Wow, thanks alot for the list, looks like a great selection and i will be keeping my eye out for the walk around book. I to love my research but living in the UK the selection of huey books isnt to good the shops mostly cater for spitfire enthusiasts, though i have managed to track down a few books over the years in some old second hand shops but none that deal specifically with the huey.

I have managed to get hold of a few VHS video documentaries about the war in Vietnam.

Vietnam Chopper Wars - Air Cavalry, 1996 Castle Communications CVB 1139, has some great footage of huey pilots training at Ft.Rucker and the gunships going through their paces and showing them in action in vietnam. Its a great doorway to history for any huey fan.

This link also has some great footage of the UH/1A & B when they first started service as gunships.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gejLgsne65c

this one has some great AH/1 Cobra shots.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ChjmXT8FM7Y

Andy

Andy,

  In my professional career, I am a Paleontologist.  From my experiences with science, I have learned that there is no better source of information than good old fashioned research.  while the internet is a great source, it is full of bad info as well.  I have been researching the Huey and its many variants for the last year or more.  I want to build a model of my fathers gunship in Vietnam, and I picked his brain first for info.  However, he was an armorer and a doorgunner and didn't know the minutia about each variant and how to distiguish them.  My next stop was referrences.  I have tried to amass all the Huey refs I could find.  Below is a list of the books I have found that may be helpful to you.  If any of you guys out there know of any others, please post them here so I can try to find them.  By the way, to all you guys who were in Vietnam, Thanks for your service and for helping those of us who want to keep your history alive.

 The Refs:

     Bell Uh-1 Huey "Slicks" 1962-7, Osprey Publishing, Chris Bishop, ISBN 1-84176-632-1, 48 pp.  Mostly general info on the Huey with very little info on armament.  Good starting place, though.

      UH-1 iroquois/AH-1 Hueycobra, Modern Combat Aircraft 19, Jerry Scutts, ISBN 0-7110-1416-7, 112 pp.  I haven't totally finished reading this one yet, but it has a lot of info on the Hueys used by Army, Navy and Marines through 1984.

    Huey, Modern Military Aircraft, Squadron/Signal, Lou Drendel, 1983, Couldn't find ISBN, 63 pp.  Of course, squadron/Signal is the BIG  name in refs for the modeller and this book is no exception.  There is info on each of the Huey variants up until '83 and 7 pages of color photos that include a good closeup of a huey instrument panel and engine.  Also, there are personal accounts of flying hueys and flying in hueys during the Vietnam War.  I really like this book as a general ref for Vietnam Hueys.

    Vietnam Choppers-Helicopters in Battle 1950-1975, ospey Publishing, Simon Dunstan, ISBN 1-84176-796-4, 207 pp.  If you ever wondered how almost every helicopter around figured into the Vietnam War, this is your book.  Lots of pictures and historical accounts of the ways each type of chopper was used in battle.

    Airmobile-the Helicopter War in Vietnam, Sqadron/Signal, Jim Mesko, 1984, couldn't find ISBN, 63 pp. Similar to the obove title in its coverage, but with many more closeup photos of interest to the modeler and 8 pages of color images.

    Bent and Battered Rotors volume 3, Sqaudron/ Signal, Wayne Mutza, 1993, ISBN 0-89747-306-X, 56 pp. Packed with photos of crashed helicopters with 8 color pages.  This is the ref for diorama makers who want to depict a downed bird authentically.  Has info on helicopter losses up through Operation Urgent Fury in Grenada.

    Bell Uh-1 Super Profile, Christopher Chant, 1985, ISBN 0-85429-437-6, 56 pp. Now we're getting to the good stuff.  This volume has info on each of the Uh-1 variants (both military and civilian) and includes 8 color pages.  In the back is info on Serial numbers and specifications for each of the variants.  Be aware, by the way, that I have seen contradictory info in different refferences regarding total length of aircraft and blade length for individual variants.  Don't trust everything you read in a book!

    UH-1 Huey in Action, Aircraft Number 75, Squadron/Signal, Wayne Mutza, 1986, 49 pp.  Mutza is the man as far as I am concerned.  His book on the Huey have proven to be the most useful for working out the little details that I am interested in.  This book has info on all the Huey variants and two pages of color illustrations of various individual birds.  Also has photos of specific differences between models.  Great general ref and a "must have" for the Huey modeler.

    Fighting Colors-UH-1 Huey in Color, Squadron/Signal, Wayne Mutza, 1992, 32 pp.  As the name implies, this book covers the markings and colors used on the Uh-1.  There is a nice description of the color schemes used in Vietnam, but not in other conflicts.  There are 17 pages of color photos and this is another must for the serious Uh-1 modeler in my opinion.

    Wlak Around- Uh-1 huey Gunships- Walk around numer 36, Squadron/ Signal, Wayne Mutza, 2004, ISBN 0-89747-479-1, 80 pp.  Andy, this is your book!  32 color pages and ilustrations of indvidual gunships from Vietnam showing the unique markings of each.  Needless to say this book is primarily dedicated to the B and C model Hueys.  Also has a little info on RAAF D model gunships. Every weapons configuration I have been able to find that was used in Vietnam is here.  Lots of closeup shots of the various hatches, access panals, screens and such.  If you don't have a copy of this book, do yourself a favor and get one quick.  It will help sort out many of the questions you have concerning weapons configurations and even has photos of the little mentioned "Sagami" mounting system for the M60.  If I could own only one book on the armed Huey, this would be it.

   Well, there you go.  As far as i know that is all the major literature on the Huey.  The Gunslingers in Action (Aircraft number 14) also has a few Huey things, but is mainly dedicated to the AH-1G.  However, Page 8 includes the ONLY photo I have ever seen of a Huey fitted out exactly like the 1/48 Revell Huey"Hog."  My next course of action is to go to Ft. Rucker and get up close to as many of the variants as I can.  Can anyone say Summer Vacation!  I hope this helps in your quest for Huey info.

    Ray

I see your point Gino, it could get hard to find what your looking for if everyone posts about hueys here, as a new user i just thought after doing lots of searches and finding many things repeated in the posts ie; M60's, Crew, paint colours and such, that it would make more sense to have one section to scroll through to find the answers and to save you guys from having to repeat yourselves over and over, the last thing i wanted was to complicate things lol

Thanks for the UH-1B/C armament diagram Gino, that'l deffo come in handy. 

MRC/Academy UH-1C Frog kit info... from about 3 posts down.

The UH-1C Frog kit does indeed include the parts for the M134 miniguns and their mounts.  The Frog kit includes all the weapons sprues from their earlier UH-1C kits as well.  You can choose from any combination you like. 

Here is a review from Aircraft Resource Center that shows all the sprues as well.

UH-1B/C weapons load combos.

It is a tall order putting all Huey knowledge in one post.  It is much easier to ask a specific question and get an answer to it.  Otherwise, the post could become huge and be so long as to be too hard to find info in.  I have seen some get really long and are harder to follow than a search of old posts.

If anyone is  wanting to build a UH-1C Gunship i can recomend the MRC/Acedemy Models they are 1/35 scale, i have the heavy hog

UH-1C Heavy Hog - Armaments included -  2 x M3 24 Tube Rocket Launcher, 2 x M200 19 pod Rocket Launcher and an M5 Grenade Launcher. 2 x M60 machine guns (no mounts though) 

Also included - Pilot, Copilot, gunner & crew chief.

Academy also do the UH-1C frog (which also comes with the same crew and M60's) but im not sure of the armaments so if anyone has it and could list them that would be good  

Nice one Rescuehawk i was advised about the cobra company when i first came in here, i will be getting the M60's and mounts for the revell 1/32 huey from them. they look great and the thought of scratch building them is daunting