Other Unusual Vietnam Helicopters. (No Hueys Allowed)

Bob & All,

 

We are still flying the Hughes NOH-6P up here in Snohomish County, WA.  I am working on replacing the helicopter and finding an aviation museum that will take good care of her. This aircraft has a lot of significant history.  video:

 

Bob, if you find any more photos or history please post them. 

 

Here is a photo from 1994 when our Sheriff's Office picked up 66-17825 in Mississippi. It still had the "duckbill" FLIR mount on the nose.   -Bill

 

Bob,

 Thanks for your service, sir!  I really hope you find your photos.  I look forward to seeing them if you do.  Thanks so much for sharing your story with us.

   Ray

I was a member of  Night Vision Flight Detachment from 1980 to 1986 and maintained 66-17825 during this period . The main rotor blade in this picture are not the original ones. The original blades were similar to the UH-60 blades with the sweep on the tips. Additionally, there was a Bennie that mounted to the top of the main rotor hub. These items were stored in one of the 2 parts trailer in back of our hanger. There was also the exhaust cowling showmen on the other photos.

The blades were longer than the standard OH-6 that we used because of their price. The Bennie on the main rotor remained off because of being a headache for daily maintenance or doing per-flight checks. I do know that the bird was sent out on operations that called for them to be installed. To this day I cannot answer what the operation was or where it went during these trips. Unlike our other OH-6 this ones engine was different and was flown at usually 60% power.

I found some old paper work dated May 1977 where the aircraft was sent to Hughes for some work to be done on it.

I remember one flight returning from Aberdeen, where we were running classified Night vision tests. The service ceiling was low when a small private fixed wing came through the clouds about 500 feet in front of us. Thank God that Dave had excellent reflexes and banked hard left and down. The person in the private plane had entered the restricted helicopter low level routes around D.C.

Unfortunately, we just move and I cannot find my pictures of it.  If I can find them I will up load them.

I had a lot of hours in this great helicopter and even more stories about it.

Sincerely,

Bob A.

Some pics that I got from the grandson of a GoGo (ACH-47A) crewmember and which are used with his kind allowance.

This photo shows ACH-47A #64-13151shortly after the crash which led to its nickname "Stump Jumper" as hit a large tree stump after the forced landing due to enemy fire.

"Stump Jumper" with painted nickname and tree stump.

Some pics of "Stump Jumper" after the groundtaxiing accident  in which it hit an other parked Chinook. The helicopter was a total loss.

Thanks for the photo...every single one is interesting.

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Jollies and TATs (Tactical Armament Turret 102B, M134 pod with 8.000 rounds) which could be carried instead of the external fueltanks. The crews doesn't seem to like them much and prefered the extra fuel above firepower instead. They were aimed via door/window mounted electro-optical sights.

 

Nice shots!  Thanks for sharing.  As for the photos, I'm pretty sure they are the ones I scanned, the NOH-6 pic even has the same black mark in the upper right hand corner!  Plus I am the only person who has scanned them to my knowledge (they are slides and the collection is locked away on the 3rd floor), but as I said, it's not about me getting credit just the Museum collections.  I just want folks to realize that they are trying their best to preserve the history of Army Aviation.  

Here's a shot that might be of interest.  A Camo UH-2A shots from the National Museum of Naval Aviation collections:

Not worried at all. Maybe you're not the only person that visited the museum and scanned the pics? I know there are a lot of copyright issues but I try to stay away from such material if it's explicitly marked as copyright protected or ask the respective owner of the copyright if I'm allowed to use his material which in most cases isn't a problem (example follows).

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Some pics of USN CSAR choppers.

SH-3A "Big Mother 70" of HS-2 in SEA colors on the landing deck of USS Mahan (DLG-11).

"Big Mother 70" after its conversion to HH-3A standard and in new color with HC-7.

The M134 mounted in the door of "Big Mother 70".

Note: The last two pics marked (C) W.Tanneberger are used with his kind allowance!

Following the only shot of an UH-2 with doorgun that I know of.

Another shot of an UH-2A with camo and a nice noseart.

If you want to know more about the history of USN CSAR helicopters and also Lt. Lassen you may check out this PDF.

http://www.ussmahan.org/HC7.pdf

No worries.  I see at least three photos there that are from material I scanned from the archives and posted as well as several others that i also have but can't prove came from me.  It's all public access so that's not a problem.  i just wish folks would credit the US Army Aviation Museum when they use them for articles and such.  Heck, I even saw some dude posted my father's pic of his bird Gladiator 36 as their own!  Now that did annoy me.

   Ray

I don't remember where the first one is from but the cockpit photo is from this article.

http://www.airspacemag.com/military-aviation/the_quiet_one.html?c=y&page=1#

/edit: The other pic is from here.

http://sobchak.wordpress.com/2011/01/18/air-americas-black-helicopter/

This article also has this and an other cockpit pic but what is more interesting is the linked PDF there.

Just out of curiosity, where did you come across the NOH-6 photos?  I only ask because I scanned those from the US Army Aviation Museum archives myself some time ago.  They are indeed cool though.

    Ray

Another shot of one of the NOH-6As.

The cockpit with the FLIR monitors.

And while doing some research I found out that one of them is even flying today!

I even contact the Snohomish Sheriffs department and asked if they know what they have there. They do!

Got it..."the tail number of 'SNAFU' was 16308. The mini-gun project was done in early '69 before TET that year.  The brass wanted more 'count' in case more 'shi*' was coming for TET '69 like what happened in '68.  The door mounted 60 just didn't get the job done especially if they were out without a cobra. Can anyone create a loach model with the mini-gun in the door and correct tail number and name for Chris ?  He's willing to buy.       

I'm new to the site...found it a few weeks ago while doing some research for a friend of mine to get some parts to restore his flight helmet.  Here's the God's honest truth on the first loach with a door mounted mini-gun. It was fabricated using a spare collective stick robbed from another ship...the obsever/co-pilot position had a removable collective that could be stored and then quickly installed if needed in an emergency. The creation was by a loach crew chief/gunner by the name of Chris 'Favats' Favata, hometown, Northvale, NJ. Chris was attached to D Troop (Air), 3rd Squadron, 4th Cavalry (3/4 Cav), 25th Infantry Division operating out of Cu Chi. Chris was there from Spring 68 to Summer 69. The name of his ship was 'SNAFU'...I have to double-check the tail number...might have been 308...but I'll get back to you on that and in what month he and some maintence guys made their creation. Also, Chris has some photos....I'll have to scan them and post them here. The photo of the loach 'Borrowed Time' is after SNAFU already had her gun.         

grandadjohn wrote:

"Big Mother" a CH-54A of the 1st Cav being readed for it's third bomber mission with the 10,000lb to clear a LZ. And let's not forget those ACH-47A "Guns-a Go-Go" birds

The flying crane was relatively rare over there, and to see one with a "daisy cutter" is even stranger. Up north they were always dropped out the back of a C130.

gary

ipmsfl wrote:

I have a very clear memory of seeing a photo of a helo with a rocket pod painted up as a Budweiser (?) beer can but can't recall where I saw it.  Does anyone else remember this one? There are also the two all-black H-3's operated by the 20th Special Operations Squadron in Laos. No national insignia just a 4-digit red tail number.

"Black Maria" CH-3C or E. H-3 in action has briefs on that aircraft. It has a drawing and some other black and whites. I have a few models in the to do list in 1/72 and that is one. All I need for that one is red decals and some interior shot to built it up. I also have planned on making Banana 1 and the rest of the acft in the raid.

Ed,

  Go to the "Links to Huey threads on FSM site" thread and look at the "Huey nose art" thread page 2 and the "Unusual Vietnam Hueys" thread page 1 for several different beer can motifs on rocket pods, including Budweiser.

   Ray 

I have a very clear memory of seeing a photo of a helo with a rocket pod painted up as a Budweiser (?) beer can but can't recall where I saw it.  Does anyone else remember this one?

There are also the two all-black H-3's operated by the 20th Special Operations Squadron in Laos. No national insignia just a 4-digit red tail number.

Ray,

 

The book by Mike Verier is entitled Bell AH-1 Cobra (Osprey Air Combat Series); ISBN: 0850459346. I am not sure if it's still in print, but You can get it through Amazon.

 

I'll do my best to post some more info on ALLD/ATAFCS and an image of the ALLD pod tomorrow.

 

Marko 

Excellent!  Thanks for the confirmation on that Marko! 

:D 

Jon

Marko,

  Thanks for the info!  Exactly which one of Verier's books is the photo in?  Do you have the ISBN? 

   Ray
 

Guys,

 

That is certainly an ATAFCS AH-1G. The same picture appears in Mike Verier's Bell AH-1 Cobra book and the caption confirms this being an ATAFCS Cobra. I did some more digging on this subject and came up with the following info: ATAFCS was initially known as the ALLD (Airborne Laser Locator/Designator); ALLD was the podded version carried on the right outboard pylon. It was produced by the Aeronautics division of Philco Ford and gave AH-1G day and night/adverse weather capability to acquire and designate targets for Hellfire or Copperhead laser guided munitions. ALLD was first tested in 1974. Later the Army mounted the system on the nose of some AH-1Gs included in the Apache/Hellfire project and redesignated it the ATAFCS. At least six ALLD/ATAFCS systems were procured by the Army, and though ALLD/ATAFCS was a highly capable system, Army decided not to upgrade their Cobras with ATAFCS (and we all know how long it took the army to eventually equip AH-1s with C-NITE FLIR).

 

Oh yeah, ATAFCS AH-1Gs were still used to designate targets for Hellfire/Apache tests in 1980.

 

Marko

Photo could have been taken at the Yuma Proving Grounds, know alot of testing is done there, but the photo really doesn't show the terrian that good to me

Morning guys!

That could very well be the ATAFCS, although from what I know (not very much) that terrain's not right for Edwards.  The pylons are definitely not HMMS racks, even if they were the triple racks we've seen on that G model with the LST in the nose. 

If I could see the buzz numbers on the Apaches behind, I might be able to get an idea of which articles they were and what they did during the test program.  That might give us a clue as to what the Cobra was doing there. 

Considering the Cobra was used for a lot of Apache test stuff, the ATAFCS explanation does make a lot of sense.  However, from what I can see on the two Apaches, they are close to the production configuration, which means that TADS/PNVS were installed already and were definitely superior in performance to ATAFCS.  Certainly produces some interesting questions!

Jon

Randie,

  Thanks for the info.  There's nothing like good intel!

    Ray
 

Being born and raised in California and having covered just about every part of the state, either on business or pleasure, that is not Edwards.

IF it is even in California I would say it was carried out, where a lot of evaluation work was done with the Army, Fort Hunter Liggett. That is more like the terrain of that area.

While deer and hog hunting there one year we got to see, from a distance, this butt ugly airplane flying close support missions with the Army. I wish I had had a camera. That A-10 is still butt ugly but, AWESOME!!!! 

Jon and Marko,

I found this on the Defense Technical Information Center web site. 

"The AH-1G helicopter with the HELLFIRE modular Missile System (HMMS) and the Airborne Target Acquisition Fire Control System (ATAFCS) is being used as a surrogate trainer for the YAH-64 helicopter. The United States Army Aviation Engineering Flight Activity was tasked to provide quantitative and qualitative data on the handling qualities of the helicopter, obtain limited level flight performance data, and obtain limited handling qualities of the helicopter with only the ATAFCS installed. The test helicopter was a production AH-1G helicopter (212 tail rotor) modified with an ATAFCS mockup and carrying eight HELLFIRE missiles. Six productive flight test hours were flown in six flights. No shortcomings or deficiencies attributable to HMMS and ATAFCS installation were found. The AH-1G helicopter, with HMMS and ATAFCS installed, exhibits an additional equivalent flat plate area of 4.0 ft2 compared to the standard AH-1Q helicopter. The handling qualities of the helicopter with only the ATAFCS installed are essentially the same as the production AH-1G helicopter. (Author)"

The test took place at Edwrds AFB in California.  Does the terrain in the photo look right for Edwards?  I still don't get what is up with the wierd Armamant racks.  That's not the standard setup for mounting hellfires is it?  anyway, that was some quick research there, Marko.  Certainly sounds plausable.  The time frame for the above test (Jun 78-Jan 79) is also close to what you indicated, Jon.

   Ray
 

Ray, Jon

 

I believe that is not a SMASH Cobra in the picture. It's an AH-1G with Airborne Target Acquisition Fire Control System (ATAFCS) mounted on the nose. ATAFCS was initially used in the podded version, but was later mounted on the nose of some AH-1Gs used in Hellfire/Apache programme. According to my references ATAFCS included stabilized day sight, FLIR and laser designator/range finder.

 

Hope this helps

 

Marko 

I remember when the Army announced the Apache as the winner. Hard to believe it's that old, but then the Huey is over 50 years old.

So, Jon, how do you like Arizona so far?