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red tails movie trailer

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  • Member since
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  • From: Iowa
Posted by Hans von Hammer on Monday, August 1, 2011 5:09 AM

Couple quick nits from the trailer:

M-44 goggles... Not available at that time, since they weren't fielded to the USAAF until late 1944... They're still current issue, BTW... I must have 5 or 6 sets of 'em...

 RAF Mk VII goggles... This one's a "possible", though.. I dunno how close they were to any RAF units in the MTO to make a "trade", but were pretty common among American pilots stationed in England... The ANH-14 flight helmet is a repro.. The goggle-loops were leather, these appear to be OD web.

  • Member since
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  • From: Frisco, TX
Posted by B17Pilot on Sunday, July 31, 2011 4:50 PM

I think the bombardier and/or navigator went with him as well as the tail gunner.

  

  • Member since
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  • From: Iowa
Posted by Hans von Hammer on Sunday, July 31, 2011 4:16 PM

Great minds think alike, Stik.. IIRC, one of the Belle's gunners went on to B-29s as well (I'm thinking it was SGT Quinlan, the tail-gunner, but I could be wrong), and flew with COL Morgan...

 

  • Member since
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  • From: Sonora Desert
Posted by stikpusher on Sunday, July 31, 2011 3:07 PM

Hey now Hans, somebody knows about Col Morgan and Dauntless Dotty. My 1/48 B-29 will be built in those markings (courtesy of Aeromaster) when I have the room to display it. I kinda like the fact here was a guy out on his second combat tour when leading the way on the other side of the world. Speaks volumes about the man. Everybody knows the Belle, but Dotty...

 

F is for FIRE, That burns down the whole town!

U is for URANIUM... BOMBS!

N is for NO SURVIVORS...

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  • Member since
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  • From: Iowa
Posted by Hans von Hammer on Sunday, July 31, 2011 11:34 AM

Well, I put it lightly because I know this place is high on PC-osity... ya gotta tread much more carefully on the FSM forums than many others.

Anyhoo, Bob said pretty much the same to me the few times we talked, and there have been other bomber guys who more or less echoed him.

'Memphis Belle' was indeed a 'turkey' as you put it, in regards to the story it attempted to tell. And, yeah, they crammed a bit too much action into that one op, but if you forget that the aircraft is named Memphis Belle, then you have a reasonably good composite of the European air war from an AAF bomber crew's perspective. Hokey and exaggerated as some of the characters may have seemed, guys like those portrayed in the film *did* exist... and I have talked to a number of them, and to a number of their comrades.

'Memphis Belle' failed miserably in telling the story of the real 'Belle'... but it succeeded in a number of other ways and is certainly more than watchable if you're able to keep that in mind.

Like I said, it was almost unwatchable... I've actually watched it more times than I can recall, each time finding some little tid-bit I liked, and hadn't noticed before (I never counted things like Buchon's, "Cheyenne tails", or faired-over chin-turrets and cheek windows)... Especially good was the part when John Lithgow's character (LTC Derringer) is reading the letters from the dead airmen's families that COL Harriman gave him, voicing over the gun-camera and mission camera footage... That really socked home some of the things the movie was after... It was a rather powerful scene..

Some of the other things I noticed though, but are more like nit-picks than problems:

The B-17 that bellied-in in the beginning had it's props "replaced" after it came to a stop. Initially, when it hit, a couple blades went flying off, but the wide shot from the side, just before it explodes, the blades are there. It also "changed noses".. It had nose-art when it came in, but it was gone in the wide-shot.

Danny, veteran with 24 missions behind him was a T-3 (equal to a Staff Sergeant), but that Cherry radio operator from "Mother and Country" was a Master Sergeant?  Highly doubtful... Both his rank and age don't add up...

The P-51Ds were a little "early" for the date of the mission..  By about a year...

Val invented CPR...

One of the real B-17s' pilots is wearing a modern Telex headset w/ boom-mic druing take-off.

They got to the "Rally Point" before the bomb run.. Shoulda been the, IP- "Initial Point"... You only head for the Rally-point AFTER the bomb drop...

The Belle's ball turret was intact and postioned for landing at the end of the film.

Can't re-load the B-17's tailgun ammo cans in-flight.. They can only be loaded from outside the aircraft...So Clay's excuse to allow Luke back there wouldn't happen.

Couple that REALLY bugged me though..

The crew constantly putting on and taking off O-masks at altitude (actually bugs me in a LOT of movies. Top Gun was one like that, and another film that featured "Rascal", Courage Under Fire, LTC Searling's and crew ICS converstaions were in the radio recordings from the tank battle... Wouldn't happen, as the ICS and radio can't be used at the same time. You have to move the switch on the CVC helmet to the radio position, and then push it backwards to transmit)... Also the total lack of ICS dicispline and constant "chit-chat" over it in the plane... (I know, the actors' faces gotta be seen, and the movie would be pretty boring at times if the ICS was used properly... Still...)

There are more, but that'll do for now, lol... I don't wanna beat a dead horse...

It's great that you knew Bob Morgan.. I first met him at Midland in '97, and we managed to link up again in 98, at the American Combat Airmen's Hall of Fame induction, and again in 99...  Been planning a model of Dauntless Dotty  to go along with the Belle...  Kinda sad that nobody knows about his tour in B-29s.  Revell once had a kit of "Dotty", but it was 1/144 or maybe it was just a "Box Scale" kit, but I didn't do that scale, so it was passed on..

 

 

 

  • Member since
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  • From: Wayfar, Tatooine
Posted by BerlinCreation on Sunday, July 31, 2011 7:10 AM

Hans von Hammer
"Not so historically accurate"?  That's putting it lightly, pard Wink... Memphis Belle, IMHO, was a turkey... Loved the eye-candy and aerial photography (the "battle damage" on the aircraft using reflective tape was a good idea), but the characters were so hokey (I know they were composites) and the story of the Belle's 25th mission so far from the truth that is was, for me, almost unwatchable...  Outside the uniforms and flight gear, and it seemed as if the directtor and writers wanted everything that ever happened to every 8th AF bomber crewman during 1943 happened to the 91st on one mission and most of it in one aircraft... (Although, Billy Zane's period moustache was quite good.)

I talked with Bob Morgan (The Belle's pilot) back in '99 about it down in Midland and his advice was, "If you want to know how it was, watch 12 O'Clock High. If you want to know how it wasn't, watch Memphis Belle."..

Well, I put it lightly because I know this place is high on PC-osity... ya gotta tread much more carefully on the FSM forums than many others.

Anyhoo, Bob said pretty much the same to me the few times we talked, and there have been other bomber guys who more or less echoed him.

'Memphis Belle' was indeed a 'turkey' as you put it, in regards to the story it attempted to tell. And, yeah, they crammed a bit too much action into that one op, but if you forget that the aircraft is named Memphis Belle, then you have a reasonably good composite of the European air war from an AAF bomber crew's perspective. Hokey and exaggerated as some of the characters may have seemed, guys like those portrayed in the film *did* exist... and I have talked to a number of them, and to a number of their comrades.

'Memphis Belle' failed miserably in telling the story of the real 'Belle'... but it succeeded in a number of other ways and is certainly more than watchable if you're able to keep that in mind.

 

Hans von Hammer
Lucas got all the weapons right in Star Wars, why not this movie?

You mean that Imperial Stormtroopers didn't have Lewis Guns and the Corellians didn't really carry broom-handle Mausers a "long time ago in a galaxy far, far away"?

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v233/HansvonHammer/Heroshots/Heroshots%20Movies/Stormtroopers-Lewisgun.jpg?t=1312059124

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v233/HansvonHammer/Heroshots/Heroshots%20Movies/SoloMauser.jpg?t=1312059212

I don't see a Lewis and a Mauser... I see a T-21 and a modified DL-44... *shrug* :P

 

Fade to Black...

------------------------------------------------

Steve O. Reno

Formerly Blackwolf3945

Seeking Curtiss-Wright photos, especially the P-40 & C-46...

  • Member since
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  • From: Canada / Czech Republic
Posted by upnorth on Sunday, July 31, 2011 5:38 AM

It looks like this one might have something to it.

Hard to judge from a trailer released half a year ahead of the premier.

They've plenty of time to smooth out the CGI a bit more. It does look a bit cartoonish to me in the trainer and I'm not convinced of some of the manouvers I saw the planes carrying out in some scenes.

Like I said, plenty of time to smooth out rough edges and cut a bit here and there.

 

I'll probably take a look at it. I'm by no means any sort of WWII expert so I'll take it for entertainment primarily.

  • Member since
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  • From: Frisco, TX
Posted by B17Pilot on Saturday, July 30, 2011 8:58 PM

Hans von Hammer

it seemed as if the directtor and writers wanted everything that ever happened to every 8th AF bomber crewman during 1943 happened to the 91st on one mission and most of it in one aircraft 

That's exactly what they where going for.  After they read what really happened on the Belle's last mission, they put together actual damage from multiple aircaft and made the fictional Belle receive it all.  At least they made so it could keep flying.  SInce they now damaged the aircraft (which in real life the mission was a milk run, no damage), they changed the target, and since they changed the target, the producers didn't want to use the real names any more, so they changed the names as well.  About the only thing they got right was the name of the base they took off from and the date.

  

  • Member since
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  • From: Kincheloe Michigan
Posted by Mikeym_us on Saturday, July 30, 2011 7:39 PM

Hans von Hammer

I don't remember Jackson in that movie...  Which character did he play?

At least they didn't call back Malcolm Jamal Warner.. He can't fit IN a Mustang, lol..

I do seem to recall with Malcolm he is a pretty muscular guy these days.

On the workbench: Dragon 1/350 scale Ticonderoga class USS BunkerHill 1/720 scale Italeri USS Harry S. Truman 1/72 scale Encore Yak-6

The 71st Tactical Fighter Squadron the only Squadron to get an Air to Air kill and an Air to Ground kill in the same week with only a F-15   http://photobucket.com/albums/v332/Mikeym_us/

  • Member since
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  • From: Iowa
Posted by Hans von Hammer on Saturday, July 30, 2011 6:06 PM

I don't remember Jackson in that movie...  Which character did he play?

At least they didn't call back Malcolm Jamal Warner.. He can't fit IN a Mustang, lol..

  • Member since
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  • From: Kincheloe Michigan
Posted by Mikeym_us on Saturday, July 30, 2011 5:41 PM

Hans von Hammer

Yeah, he's old enough to play Colonel Davis, now, lol...

Too bad Samuel Jackson and Lawrence Fishburn didn't return they were badass in their roles in Tuskeegee Airmen

 

On the workbench: Dragon 1/350 scale Ticonderoga class USS BunkerHill 1/720 scale Italeri USS Harry S. Truman 1/72 scale Encore Yak-6

The 71st Tactical Fighter Squadron the only Squadron to get an Air to Air kill and an Air to Ground kill in the same week with only a F-15   http://photobucket.com/albums/v332/Mikeym_us/

  • Member since
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  • From: Iowa
Posted by Hans von Hammer on Saturday, July 30, 2011 4:47 PM

Yeah, he's old enough to play Colonel Davis, now, lol...

  • Member since
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  • From: Kincheloe Michigan
Posted by Mikeym_us on Saturday, July 30, 2011 4:17 PM

And Cuba Gooding Jr returns to play a Tuskeegee Airman like he did in the Tuskeegee Airmen.

On the workbench: Dragon 1/350 scale Ticonderoga class USS BunkerHill 1/720 scale Italeri USS Harry S. Truman 1/72 scale Encore Yak-6

The 71st Tactical Fighter Squadron the only Squadron to get an Air to Air kill and an Air to Ground kill in the same week with only a F-15   http://photobucket.com/albums/v332/Mikeym_us/

  • Member since
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  • From: Iowa
Posted by Hans von Hammer on Saturday, July 30, 2011 4:14 PM

Kinda like 'Memphis Belle'...not so historically accurate regarding the main characters, but acceptably accurate (mostly) as an overall representation...

"Not so historically accurate"?  That's putting it lightly, pard Wink... Memphis Belle, IMHO, was a turkey... Loved the eye-candy and aerial photography (the "battle damage" on the aircraft using reflective tape was a good idea), but the characters were so hokey (I know they were composites) and the story of the Belle's 25th mission so far from the truth that is was, for me, almost unwatchable...  Outside the uniforms and flight gear, and it seemed as if the directtor and writers wanted everything that ever happened to every 8th AF bomber crewman during 1943 happened to the 91st on one mission and most of it in one aircraft... (Although, Billy Zane's period moustache was quite good.)

I talked with Bob Morgan (The Belle's pilot) back in '99 about it down in Midland and his advice was, "If you want to know how it was, watch 12 O'Clock High. If you want to know how it wasn't, watch Memphis Belle."...

 

 

 

 

 

  • Member since
    June 2008
  • From: Iowa
Posted by Hans von Hammer on Saturday, July 30, 2011 3:55 PM

Lucas got all the weapons right in Star Wars, why not this movie?

You mean that Imperial Stormtroopers didn't have Lewis Guns and the Corellians didn't really carry broom-handle Mausers a "long time ago in a galaxy far, far away"?

  • Member since
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Posted by spadx111 on Saturday, July 30, 2011 3:05 PM

got to see Yes

Ron

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  • From: Sonora Desert
Posted by stikpusher on Saturday, July 30, 2011 1:55 PM

Well it looks like they have generated enough interest here to fill at least one theaterWink This will be the first movie I have looked forward to in quite some time. If it works, will Hollywood do another phase of WWII films?

 

F is for FIRE, That burns down the whole town!

U is for URANIUM... BOMBS!

N is for NO SURVIVORS...

       - Plankton

LSM

 

  • Member since
    June 2010
  • From: Austin, TX
Posted by DoogsATX on Saturday, July 30, 2011 1:14 PM

It's a general rule that, the more you know about a given period of history, the more frustrated you become watching pretty much anything set in said period. 

A big one for me is ancient Rome. History Channel documentaries make me want to tear my eyes out. HBO's Rome was a jumbled mess of inaccuracies, rushed plotting, etc. What it nailed, and exceptionally well, was the atmosphere. Same could be said for Saving Private Ryan...a historical mess, but it nailed the environment.

I have to imagine the same's going on here. No doubt aircraft (aside from the Red Tails themselves) were chosen for as much or more for aesthetic appeal than for strict accuracy. Frustrating? Sure. But it's inevitable...and so long as the rest of the movie is solid, I'm fine with it. I'm going to guess they probably also leap from P-40s right into P-51Ds, ignoring the P-47, P-51B/C, etc.

On the Bench: 1/32 Trumpeter P-47 | 1/32 Hasegawa Bf 109G | 1/144 Eduard MiG-21MF x2

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  • From: Wayfar, Tatooine
Posted by BerlinCreation on Saturday, July 30, 2011 12:01 PM

When watching any flick, I expect to be entertained first... that's first priority for me personally. If the film is historical in nature, like this one, I can then only hope that the filmmakers haven't gone ape with the Hollywood treatment.

Looking at the trailer, it seems that 'ole George and crew have so far given us a strange mix of spot-on and W-T-F?!?!? Some of the markings on the 109s are, ummm, interesting. Same with the Silbers. And the Forts too, although they do appear to be accurate... just the wrong kind of accurate. Also, the P-40s are the wrong variant and... well... I'm a P-40 nut, so I probably notice a lot more funny stuff about these P-40s than most folks.

The overall  quality of the CGI stuff is somewhat inconsistent... and I hope that what we are seeing here is not the finished product, but just a polished rush created for the trailer.

The basic story points, as related in the trailer, seem to be more or less in line. I hope that Hollywood does not beat up on history here, but I guess we'll have to wait for the finished product to judge fairly.

They've still got a few months before release... I really hope that they make some changes, especially regarding the accuracy issues with some of the aircraft markings and other details. However, even if they do not make any corrections, and as long as they don't go ape with the story, I think I'll probably enjoy it.

However it turns out, this film looks as though it will probably, at the very least, paint a composite picture of what it was like to be an AAF airman over there. Kinda like 'Memphis Belle'...not so historically accurate regarding the main characters, but acceptably accurate (mostly) as an overall representation... and thoroughly enjoyable.

Anyhoo, here's some grabs from the trailer...

 

Fade to Black...

------------------------------------------------

Steve O. Reno

Formerly Blackwolf3945

Seeking Curtiss-Wright photos, especially the P-40 & C-46...

  • Member since
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  • From: Northern Virginia
Posted by hutchdh on Saturday, July 30, 2011 9:09 AM

Personally, I am into the CGI, if it compliments the story.  How often do we see a good story ruined, in my mind, by the visual inaccuracies (I'm not very deep).  If one is going to spend all that money on making a movie, why not take the extra time to get it right...maybe Tamiya should be an advisor Smile  Lucas got all the weapons right in Star Wars, why not this movie?  Stick out tongue

I don't know if you all recall, but when the "Young Indiana Jones" series aired it was very well done.  Story line was good and lots of effort went into detail down to the proper small arms weapons used by the Belgians. 

In Red Tails, I just hope the race issues are put in their proper perspective because it doesn't serve our modern challenges any better when hollywood takes artistic license with facts.  The Tuskegee Airmen are heros and deserve an accurate portrayal.  All WWII fighting men were heros to me.  I guess I'm just a schmoltzy guy.

Hutch

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Posted by vonBrakken on Friday, July 29, 2011 8:46 PM

Oh, I don't know about those rivets...I'm a little leary of that, and are the panel lines reccessed? If not, I think I'll have to pass on this one...Stick out tongueWink

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You hit somebody with your fist and not with your fingers spread. ~ Guderian 

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  • From: Houston, Texas
Posted by Medicman71 on Friday, July 29, 2011 7:22 PM

The Navigator

I'm cautiously optimistic. Hopefully they don't dumb down the story, those guys deserve the best. The CGI looked good, although some of the planes were a couple of mm. out of scale.Wink

They looked to clean to me. Need better weathering.

Building- (All 1/48) F-14A Tomcat, F-16C Blk 30, He 129

 

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  • From: USA
Posted by Mike S. on Friday, July 29, 2011 6:56 PM

Dripping with CGI, which is not a great thing, but this movie has a good cast that might be able to make something worth seeing out of it.

A must see  for me.

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  • From: NW Washington
Posted by dirkpitt77 on Friday, July 29, 2011 6:48 PM

Hafta agree with Doogs on this one.  I'm gonna wait for some reviews before I spend money on this one.  I'm ill-at-ease anyway putting any money in Lucas' pocket after what he did to Star Wars.

    "Some say the alien didn't die in the crash.  It survived and drank whiskey and played poker with the locals 'til the Texas Rangers caught wind of it and shot it dead."

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  • From: Here
Posted by The Navigator on Friday, July 29, 2011 5:54 PM

Ditto

I have many books and my Lair smells of rich mahogany!!! Stay thirsty my fellow MOJOs!




  • Member since
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  • From: Allentown, PA
Posted by BaBill212 on Friday, July 29, 2011 5:46 PM

I watched it again,,,,,,,,,          I do not go to many movies, but I will go to see this one.

(the real history),,,,  will hopefully be portrayed.

These (and all) of our brave fathers / grandfathers / uncles deserve the greatest respect (and the women who served as well)

God Bless them All

Enjoy the ride!

 

  • Member since
    October 2010
  • From: Here
Posted by The Navigator on Friday, July 29, 2011 5:28 PM

I'm cautiously optimistic. Hopefully they don't dumb down the story, those guys deserve the best. The CGI looked good, although some of the planes were a couple of mm. out of scale.Wink

I have many books and my Lair smells of rich mahogany!!! Stay thirsty my fellow MOJOs!




  • Member since
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  • From: California
Posted by Hogan on Friday, July 29, 2011 4:13 PM

Yes, this looks very, very good.  Can't wait until January.  This post is the first I've heard of it.  Thanks for sharing!!

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  • From: hamburg michigan
Posted by fermis on Friday, July 29, 2011 4:04 PM

I just hope they found a way to squeeze in a good love story.

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  • From: Monterey Bay,CA-Fort Bragg, NC
Posted by randypandy831 on Friday, July 29, 2011 3:41 PM

awesome! this is history my friends. 

tamiya 1/48 P-47D $25 + shipping

tamiya 1/48 mosquito $20+ shipping

hobby boss 1/48 F-105G. wings and fuselage cut from sprue. $40+ shipping. 

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